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usagi
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June 04, 2012, 07:20:13 PM
Last edit: October 06, 2012, 05:03:47 PM by usagi
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June 04, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
 #2

Great news, I wish you success in your business.

For those of us who are not previously familiar with you ... can you give a short list of credentials? Other assets of the people involved in the company? Reputable forum members? Real name / Photo ID?

I wish your business succeeds, and hopefully is eventually bought out / partnered with a big company (e.g. Mt. Gox).

Please do not pm me, use ron@bitcoin.org.il instead
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June 04, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
 #3

Could you give an example what it would cost me to insure a deposit of 102 BTC (= 100 shares) at TYGRR.BOND-P?
Quote
2. Insuring pirate pass-through bonds of any kind (and similar finaicial instruments)
This will be done on a customer-by-customer basis as funds allow. The cost for such a contract at 100% backing will be 1% of asset value for each 5% in expected interest rate. Term is generally upon coupon payout (1 week) and must be purchased in advance.

To me this seems like ~2 BTC/week (2 times 1% of asset value, since it pays over 5%), payable in advance. Is this correct?

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June 04, 2012, 07:39:31 PM
 #4

Good luck.

Like the idea  Grin


Greetz
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June 04, 2012, 10:38:44 PM
 #5

This is a great idea, and I wish you the best of luck.

One question.

1c. Commitment to 100% backing
All insured securities are 100% backed by segregated asset accounts for their exposure unit group. These segregated accounts will have no other customer claims applied against them. This means we won't leverage our assets to cover two separate types of contracts at once, but we may pool resources to cover similar contracts (see: "1. Large number of similar exposure units" in customer contract preamble).

So assets are not 100% backed, then?

Will you report the % of backing for each exposure unit group?
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June 05, 2012, 03:43:16 AM
 #6

This is epic.

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June 05, 2012, 03:45:47 AM
 #7

And yes it's a little difficult to understand, so if you have a better way to word this let me know. I'll be thinking of a simpler wording as well.

Those examples made it very clear. This is a reason why I think legal documents should be present similar to how Creative Commons licenses are, with a legal "source code" behind the explanatory layer (that could use examples similar to what you've provided).

See http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ for an example.
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June 06, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
 #8

Are you planning to / would you consider insuring direct Pirate deposits?

(I'm not interested ATM, but I might be in the future.)

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June 06, 2012, 04:46:49 AM
 #9

When do you plan to open for business and start negotiating contracts?

Also, personally, I feel that IPOing on the 7th is rushing things.
 
I do still have some questions/concerns about the material you've posted (mainly in the first 3 posts), though I'm not sure if I'll have time to raise them. (Not because of the impending IPO, but just due to being busy.)
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June 06, 2012, 06:24:07 AM
 #10

depending on [...] the rate of return.
I must be missing something. Why is the rate of return relevant? Someone insuring 1999 btc & someone else insuring 2000 btc - difference in risk is 1 btc, not "next-interest-tier". Or not?

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June 06, 2012, 10:45:40 AM
 #11

I feel this is gonna be big.

Also, 100k BTC?  That's over 1 % of the total BTC in existence!
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June 06, 2012, 03:17:51 PM
 #12

There is no obvious way for them to diversify their risk here, so insurance is not a viable business.

However, as a scam, well full speed ahead. Insure against rare events and then disappear when a big payoff appears. That's the plan, right?
Is pirate is running this? Looting from both ends is pretty sick! There are plenty of people here who deserve an investment with you.

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June 06, 2012, 03:30:15 PM
 #13

So let me get this straight, In order for someone to be an 'insider', you want them to pony up a minimum of 450 btc. You have nothing worked out as far as rates of return, profitability, etc. and you are apparently a one man operation with an idea and nothing backing you as far as real world assets. What jurisdictions do any legal matters fall into? US, EU, Lithuania, Belize, Panama?

This part is nitpicking but the name of your insurance company sounds like something a high school death metal band would call themselves. Take some of the vast sums you raise from your ipo and hire a marketing consultant and work out something that sounds a bit better.

You're asking for a massive amount of btc from the community, might be better if you set your sights slightly lower and started a bit smaller, work out the bugs, and then issue more shares.
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June 06, 2012, 04:33:36 PM
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Good luck, but how will you account for fraudulent claims?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 06, 2012, 04:41:29 PM
 #15

Good luck, but how will you account for fraudulent claims?

This concerns me as well.
Assume that I have insured my GLBSE account against hack/theft.
What will prevent me from selling everything and withdrawing bitcoins, then asking for compensation?
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June 06, 2012, 05:59:47 PM
 #16

Good luck, but how will you account for fraudulent claims?

That is a very open question. Could you give me an example or two?

Sorry, I don't have a criminal mind, but this is bitcoin and I feel there will be a lot of fraudulent claims.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 06, 2012, 07:36:53 PM
 #17

So let me get this straight, In order for someone to be an 'insider', you want them to pony up a minimum of 450 btc.

Huh? Where'd you get that number? I'm confused -- it sounds like you just made that up.

10% off of 5000 shares would be 450 btc. Sorry I thought that was the minimum buy in.

Quote
See response to cunicula. I'm not interested in responding to baseless accusations and nitpicking. I'll say this -- you clearly don't get the in-joke about the name I chose for the company. Not meaning to be rude, but that is probably because you are a lot younger than me. Anyways, if you have a question about the business, go ahead and ask and I'll do my best to answer it.

If you cannot take even the name of your business seriously, why should anyone else take you seriously? And for the part that you cut, I am a miner turned investor with ~2000 btc spread on and off GLBSE. You have an interesting idea, but not a working business.  You're right though, its not me you need to prove yourself to. It is everyone.

Do you or anyone you plan to employ have *any* experience in the insurance underwriting business? You never answered my question about jursidictions. If you are dealing with assets worth 5 or 6 figures sooner or later a court is going to enter into it. The first time you deny a claim that high you are going to be sued (rightfully or wrongfully). You attempting to be the final arbiter of any dispute does not bode well. Anybody with more than pocket change invested should care about such things, as it will have an effect on your bottom line. Anybody with more than pocket change insured with you should also care, as it may compromise your ability to pay claims. If your answer is that nobody should have any legal recourse with you at all, then why should anybody trust you to insure their money? If Pirate defaults and then you in turn default on the claims then what good was the insurance in the 1st place, especially if clients cannot try to get anything from you in court?

Do you plan on underwriting against a Gox or Bitcoinica type of hack where the entire site is compromised? If so you offer potential thieves a double payout. Once someone finds a security hole they simply insure themselves for the maximum btc they can and then they get paid both for stealing as much as they can from the site and for the claim afterward.  I am curious how you would be handling Bitcoinica right now, if you had a number of clients with insured accounts there.

Oh, and in the above examples with GLBSE and Authenticator, what if somebody is using the desktop authenticator (GAuth) and their desktop gets compromised? And how do you prove someone uses a unique password on a site? Ask them for their passwords on every other site? If you don't have criminal mind and can't think of all the ways you can get defrauded, you are going to get taken for a lot of money.

Good to see you have such grace under fire with potential clients and investors. In the event of massive event happening you are going to have a *lot* of angry and pissed off people trying to get ahold of you. Good to know that customer service is at the very top of your list.
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June 06, 2012, 09:21:01 PM
 #18

And one more thing, here is the IMDB description of the short film from which you draw the name, "A group of down-and-out accountants mutiny against their bosses and sail their office building onto the high seas in search of a pirates life."

And this company is going to insure against a default by...Pirate. There is definitely an in-joke here. Some people might even get it in time.

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June 07, 2012, 05:43:14 AM
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... This is bitcoin -- the contracts are in bitcoin, the contracts don't insure the dollar value of /anything/. What would someone do, sue for bitcoins? It doesn't make sense. And where? I have no intention of going to the USA ever, and I am not an American. Even if I was in the USA, Everyone knows is a game of trust. That's just how it is. That's how it is with everything. Not just CPA, but any mining company, any investment, anything...


...With subrogation clauses and mitigation clauses written into the contract, there would be virtually no contest of such a suit even being considered. It would be cut and dry; you broke your contract, you get no coverage. If someone was dumb enough to try to sue us over such a cut an dried case we'd be forced to counter-sue...

You have no legal recourse against anything, ever, at any time, in this bitcoin world.

But that is why I am making this company.  Grin


So what is it? Can you be sued for not paying on a claim and will you sue for fraudulent claims?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 07, 2012, 06:01:53 AM
 #20

In most cases Insurance companies have harsher regulations on their clients than governments. While no government could make bitcoinica move their service to dedicated servers if they failed to do so under an insurance contract which stipulates it then they will lose their cover....


 

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June 07, 2012, 06:03:50 AM
 #21

This will never work. You rep in bitcoin community is basily zero and you want to run this huge insurance business on a word of mouth Huh
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June 07, 2012, 06:04:16 AM
 #22

This will never work. You rep in bitcoin community is basily zero and you want to run this huge insurance scam on a word of mouth Huh
FTFY
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June 07, 2012, 06:19:22 AM
 #23

Usagi's responses to valid questions and criticism has been incredibly articulate and thoughtful, and that certainly helps to inspire confidence.

Usagi, how much time to you intend to devote to this endeavour? Do you intend to take this up as a full-time occupation?
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June 07, 2012, 07:17:45 AM
 #24

You can't sue someone for bitcoins. But if you could, and it turned out to be something we needed to deal with, I would just have to let a lawyer handle it.

You could think about using Judge.me. I.e., working it into client contracts.

A client may want it in their contract, for obvious reasons.

You may want it in a contract, in order to help counter people's ability to say that you were unfair in responding to a claim. E.g. if someone tries to drag CPA's name through the mud after a claim is denied, you could reply: "If you don't agree with CPA's decision, you can appeal to Judge.me, and CPA will honor their judgement."

I have no affiliation with Judge.me, and can't speak to their credibility. Preliminary observation suggests that it's a very professional setup, though. And they have expressed an interest in working with bitcoin.

There is probably a limit to the monetary scope of their judgements (e.g. it's a small claims "court"), but the vast majority of your customers are probably going to be taking out relatively small policies anyway, to begin with. (This hypothesis probably deserves its own post, but anyway, here it is. Yes, you should try to get some "big fish," but I think small investors who just want to make their investments "somewhat less risky" are going to find CPA most appealing in the early stages, before you've really established a track record of credibility. That is a business plan I could get behind, if you can make the numbers--i.e., risk vs. backing--work out.)
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June 07, 2012, 07:20:52 AM
 #25

Speaking of "making the numbers work out"...

Do you plan to run the company with "open books" so that customers can see exactly what their exposure to risk really is (assuming "good faith" on the part of the insurer)? e.g. what assets have been insured, how much bitcoin you have backing them, etc.? I think this would be invaluable.

There may be some customer confidentiality issues here, but in general I think adequate information could be made available without inconveniencing customers. (e.g. if I personally take out a contract to insure PPT bonds, you wouldn't need to reveal that it was I specifically who did it; if a company insures its hot wallet, it probably WANTS that fact to be public; etc.).

Disclaimer: As someone who is "just asking questions", I am assuming "good faith" on the part of the OP. I don't want this to be construed as lending undue credibility to the OP. tl;dr: I'm not saying it's a good idea for people to participate in this (I wouldn't risk too much money, since I don't know the OP personally), just saying it's a (very) good idea in principle.
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June 08, 2012, 11:09:03 AM
 #26

We've been in talks with people who are going to be, potentially, investing 1000's of bitcoins into our IPO.

If you have large investors who can vouch for CPA in any way, especially if they are "known members of the community," that would undoubtedly help reassure your potential customers that the company is sound.

A customer's perception of how much CPA reduces their risk will be what drives the number of customers you receive and the premiums you can charge them.
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June 08, 2012, 11:29:57 AM
 #27

In the event of castatrophe it will probably look like this at the office:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUoAC5msF-U&feature=plcp

Wink


A customer's perception of how much CPA reduces their risk will be what drives the number of customers you receive and the premiums you can charge them.

Exactly, and we've not seen where giving money to CPA is any safer than giving money to Pirate or any other random bitcoiner.
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June 08, 2012, 12:22:58 PM
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We've been in talks with people who are going to be, potentially, investing 1000's of bitcoins into our IPO.

If you have large investors who can vouch for CPA in any way, especially if they are "known members of the community," that would undoubtedly help reassure your potential customers that the company is sound.

A customer's perception of how much CPA reduces their risk will be what drives the number of customers you receive and the premiums you can charge them.
I have been talking with usagi about investing in CPA, he seems to know what he's talking about and I am going to personally make sure things are run correctly. I have been helping and supporting CPA as I think it's something the community needs and it could potentially be very successful. Gamma Bitcoin Fund will potentially invest a big amount of Bitcoins into CPA, the exact details has not yet been decided but I can vouch for CPA and Usagi, so far Usagi seems to know what he's doing his planning and idea is sound and I hope that his execution will be so as well.
//DeaDTerra
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June 08, 2012, 12:25:47 PM
 #29

We've been in talks with people who are going to be, potentially, investing 1000's of bitcoins into our IPO.

If you have large investors who can vouch for CPA in any way, especially if they are "known members of the community," that would undoubtedly help reassure your potential customers that the company is sound.

A customer's perception of how much CPA reduces their risk will be what drives the number of customers you receive and the premiums you can charge them.
I have been talking with usagi about investing in CPA, he seems to know what he's talking about and I am going to personally make sure things are run correctly. I have been helping and supporting CPA as I think it's something the community needs and it could potentially be very successful. Gamma Bitcoin Fund will potentially invest a big amount of Bitcoins into CPA, the exact details has not yet been decided but I can vouch for CPA and Usagi, so far Usagi seems to know what he's doing his planning and idea is sound and I hope that his execution will be so as well.
//DeaDTerra
Isn't Usagi she?  Just make sure you know who are you dealing with  Cool
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June 08, 2012, 12:33:22 PM
 #30

We've been in talks with people who are going to be, potentially, investing 1000's of bitcoins into our IPO.

If you have large investors who can vouch for CPA in any way, especially if they are "known members of the community," that would undoubtedly help reassure your potential customers that the company is sound.

A customer's perception of how much CPA reduces their risk will be what drives the number of customers you receive and the premiums you can charge them.
I have been talking with usagi about investing in CPA, he seems to know what he's talking about and I am going to personally make sure things are run correctly. I have been helping and supporting CPA as I think it's something the community needs and it could potentially be very successful. Gamma Bitcoin Fund will potentially invest a big amount of Bitcoins into CPA, the exact details has not yet been decided but I can vouch for CPA and Usagi, so far Usagi seems to know what he's doing his planning and idea is sound and I hope that his execution will be so as well.
//DeaDTerra
Isn't Usagi she?  Just make sure you know who are you dealing with  Cool
I have no idea to be honest Tongue, I have only talked to he/she over IRC and I have been talking business and not personal matters. So I have to admit that I don't know if Usagi is a women or man, but what i do know is that he/she knows what he/she is doing Tongue
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June 08, 2012, 12:39:30 PM
 #31

I can see CPA hiring its own detectives and offering rewards for information leading to the recovery of clients monies Smiley

I think they would also need the services of hackers to test their clients sites for vulnerabilities.

There could be some interesting job opportunities coming out of this.  Smiley

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June 08, 2012, 12:54:21 PM
 #32

this will an interesting development to watch, something that hasn't been done in Bitcoin world yet
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June 08, 2012, 01:27:48 PM
 #33

So how many shares did you  put up for sale?  I see around 10k do you plan to release more?
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June 08, 2012, 04:25:23 PM
 #34

i bought a few Smiley Maybe more later when we have a better idea about you and your business..  Huh
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June 11, 2012, 09:06:20 PM
 #35

Note that the following quote is from a different thread.

CPA, launched this week. Usagi also known as Tsukino released a public announcement of the insurance company called CPA https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85444.0
As I have talked to Usagi and worked closely with him the most recent couple of days with BMF and ensuring that it's run properly, I was also told about CPA. I think it's a really good idea and a great thing that the community is currently missing, so I have decided to help out. I have talked to Usagi at length about different aspects of the company and the venture, and I have to say I am impressed, he was on top of everything and could give me detailed and ensuring answers. He seems to have the knowledge and skills to make it and create the first every Bitcoin insurance company. Hence I have decided to join him and help him out, I am going to act as Investor relationship managers
//DeaDTerra

Seems like an update on this relationship from the CPA side may be a good idea.
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June 11, 2012, 10:28:15 PM
 #36

Something I thought of, for "automatic" insurance of pirate pass through bonds:

Offer a CPA.PIRATE asset that cannot be bought from you. The only way to get one share there would be to send you 1 bond of a pirate pass through bond (not PPT, as these get bought back). You then pay out of the incomes there ~6.5 bitcents a week and keep up a bidwall at 1 BTC per share, even in the case of pirate defaulting.

This way you won't have to deal with tiny contracts and ever shifting amounts each week and it's also a nice service to provide liquidity.

I also invested a little bit into CPA, as it seems to me to be a much needed thing to have. Even though 1 million shares at 0.1 BTC each is quite a sum, I'm happy to own my little share in this.

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June 12, 2012, 03:46:29 AM
 #37

Very Interested
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June 15, 2012, 10:29:41 PM
 #38

Any updates?
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June 16, 2012, 10:09:54 AM
 #39

Thanks for the update. I have a tiny amount of shares  Smiley

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June 19, 2012, 04:41:00 AM
 #40


Quote
(that's not really our phone number o_o )

 Cheesy

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June 19, 2012, 06:21:13 AM
 #41


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(that's not really our phone number o_o )

 Cheesy

I would hope not, as it's the wrong number of digits.

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June 19, 2012, 11:07:03 AM
 #42

I am interested of how everything works with these 2 Like costs, which amounts do u insure.
how/what the hack&theft ins. covers..?

* Pirate Account (and PPT/etc.) coverage

* Hack & Theft Insurance


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June 19, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
 #43

100.000 bitcoin is pretty damn much. (1/200 of all possible bitcoin^^)

what measures do you take in securing this huge amount? are there conctracts with "real" insurances? what happens in case of an accident?!

questions over questions
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June 20, 2012, 01:46:59 AM
 #44

100.000 bitcoin is pretty damn much. (1/200 of all possible bitcoin^^)

what measures do you take in securing this huge amount? are there conctracts with "real" insurances? what happens in case of an accident?!

questions over questions

Of course we can't answer questions about security on a public forum. This does not mean we follow a policy of security by obscurity; it just means I can't answer those questions here.

Anyways, yes, we are a real insurance company. We've signed over 1,500 BTC worth of coverage already and are staring about 5,000 BTC of coverage in the face which we are scrambling to get capital for. And I don't even advertise! There are a few thousand BTC on the way from various sources, various investors. At least four people have promised to buy in, but they're being excruciatingly slow about it.

We need funding! Ahh, we have much more business than we can take. This is growing much faster than I imagined. We're a success, and I'm happy about that. I just have to take it slow and be patient.


I like the low price for the shares because I can buy them as my dividends come in Smiley

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June 20, 2012, 01:57:40 AM
 #45

I think this question has been asked, not sure if it was answered. 

How do you deal with fraud?

If you insure a mining company against damage, why wouldn't someone just claim their boards got fried when it didn't? How would you tackle such a situation?
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June 20, 2012, 04:06:13 AM
 #46

I think this question has been asked, not sure if it was answered. 

How do you deal with fraud?

If you insure a mining company against damage, why wouldn't someone just claim their boards got fried when it didn't? How would you tackle such a situation?

We have procedures in place which will detect fraud and scams of that nature.

What is your current default rate?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 21, 2012, 12:44:21 AM
 #47

I had this thought today...

CPA could insure more than just bitcoin related things.

For instance I have car insurance which I pay AUD to an insurance company for. If I could instead pay bitcoins to CPA that would be interesting....

I imagine if the price of bitcoin went up against the AUD it might mean I could even get a rebate after a few years if CPA kept a record of the current and future price of AUD to BTC. Its a combined savings and insurance  vehicle Smiley

This has some amazing possibilities imo.

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June 21, 2012, 05:25:13 AM
 #48

I had this thought today...

CPA could insure more than just bitcoin related things.

For instance I have car insurance which I pay AUD to an insurance company for. If I could instead pay bitcoins to CPA that would be interesting....

I imagine if the price of bitcoin went up against the AUD it might mean I could even get a rebate after a few years if CPA kept a record of the current and future price of AUD to BTC. Its a combined savings and insurance  vehicle Smiley

This has some amazing possibilities imo.

Right now I would need to do some research before I took on such a contract (1-3 days). However I would do it. The contract would be written in bitcoins, and there would be no rebates, however Smiley

If you are queazy about that may I suggest insurance extension? Say, a 100 bitcoin extension for 1 bitcoin. In the event of an accident, you provide me with your papers, and I provide you with 100 bitcoins. That might work. You're not a reckless driver are you? Smiley

Again though I would need time to research the rates on something like this, but I can guarantee you they would be cheaper than what you pay in AUD. We're a real insurance company, not a bloodsucking conglomerate.

+1 on not being a bloodsucking conglomerate lol.

Its really just a thought experiment on possibilities. Its a pity I didnt have house and contents this way as we just had an earthquake and have to make a claim  Shocked
You might want to peg the bitcoin value  to the AUD value because it might be worth a lot more or less in a year.  So the amount to pay out and the premium each week/day would move up and down as the exchange rate varied. If 100btc was worth 80 000 in a year and my car is still only worth 20 000AUD it introduces moral hazard Smiley 



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June 23, 2012, 01:10:38 AM
 #49

+1 on not being a bloodsucking conglomerate lol.

Thanks.

Its really just a thought experiment on possibilities. Its a pity I didnt have house and contents this way as we just had an earthquake and have to make a claim  Shocked
You might want to peg the bitcoin value  to the AUD value because it might be worth a lot more or less in a year.  So the amount to pay out and the premium each week/day would move up and down as the exchange rate varied. If 100btc was worth 80 000 in a year and my car is still only worth 20 000AUD it introduces moral hazard Smiley 

Well, most insurance policies will just pay you for the damages. If you incur 70 bitcoins of damage, we aren't going to pay out the entire claim ;-)

No moral hazard there.

Yes thats a good point. As a matter of fact i am dealing with insurance companies right now after we had the recent earthquake. Its been relatively painless so far. All the tiles have moved on the roof so it might be worth less to replace the house than to restump,replaster and re-roof the damn thing.

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June 30, 2012, 02:36:03 AM
 #50

The dividends will help with raising more funds. What sort of yield do you think it will come out too ?


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June 30, 2012, 10:59:50 AM
 #51

Ive been building up shares in companies that pay dividends so I can reinvest the recurring income. Now it starts paying divs I will adjust my portfolio Smiley

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July 02, 2012, 04:37:50 AM
 #52

Recieved 1st Div's and very happy Smiley

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July 02, 2012, 05:05:44 AM
 #53

Recieved 1st Div's and very happy Smiley

+1

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July 02, 2012, 08:23:57 AM
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Very good dividend, I'm glad I invested here.
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July 02, 2012, 11:10:52 AM
 #55

Bought all the shares that were priced under 0.1 Cheesy

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July 02, 2012, 07:55:16 PM
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watching
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July 03, 2012, 01:43:55 AM
 #57

<<<MOVED FROM THE YARR THREAD>>>
Please disclose the claims paying ability of CPA such as a basic three line balance sheet (assets, liability, spare liquid assets).  Without this information, the 100% insurance is only as good as the backer, and I'm not interested in taking "someone's word" on this.  An investor now has to rely on YARR, CPA and BS&T all doing their best to meet obligations.

As a counter example, Starfish BCB backs deposits (approx 9000BTC worth) with assets of approx 29,000 coins.

This financial information is available and quite a number of people have access to it, but it must remain confidential and NOT public due to our customer's requests. Some of them have requested anonymity. As it is possible to discern the identity of our clients with access to the info, and as some of that info is simply private, we will not be releasing that information any time soon to people who have not invested money with us (as they would have an incentive to protect the customer's information).  That being said I am working on a series of spreadsheets that will be released soon, to the public, which should help.

Until then you will have better luck getting Pirate to expose his books. Unfortunately that is simply the nature of this game, and I sincerely apologize if you do not trust me and prefer to invest directly with Pirate.

Anyway, if you're interested in becoming an insider, that could be arranged. You would have full access to company info then, and a round table-style discussion list where we discuss company policy. There are 4 or 5 members besides myself. I have to admit we would love someone with your experience to come on board.

CPA's e-mail is cpa@tsukino.ca -- that is probably your best bet for information on CPA. I guess you are under the impression this is me alone doing this. That is true, in the sense that we haven't hammered out a corporate structure yet. Maybe this is something you could assist us with if you were to join us.

I trust Patrick to verify you are legit and hope he takes the offer.

One way you can prove you actually have the assets backing your claims is to regularly move coins around after pre announcing the addresses you move it to.

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July 03, 2012, 01:46:34 AM
 #58

<<<MOVED FROM THE YARR THREAD>>>
Please disclose the claims paying ability of CPA such as a basic three line balance sheet (assets, liability, spare liquid assets).  Without this information, the 100% insurance is only as good as the backer, and I'm not interested in taking "someone's word" on this.  An investor now has to rely on YARR, CPA and BS&T all doing their best to meet obligations.

As a counter example, Starfish BCB backs deposits (approx 9000BTC worth) with assets of approx 29,000 coins.

This financial information is available and quite a number of people have access to it, but it must remain confidential and NOT public due to our customer's requests. Some of them have requested anonymity. As it is possible to discern the identity of our clients with access to the info, and as some of that info is simply private, we will not be releasing that information any time soon to people who have not invested money with us (as they would have an incentive to protect the customer's information).  That being said I am working on a series of spreadsheets that will be released soon, to the public, which should help.

Until then you will have better luck getting Pirate to expose his books. Unfortunately that is simply the nature of this game, and I sincerely apologize if you do not trust me and prefer to invest directly with Pirate.

Anyway, if you're interested in becoming an insider, that could be arranged. You would have full access to company info then, and a round table-style discussion list where we discuss company policy. There are 4 or 5 members besides myself. I have to admit we would love someone with your experience to come on board.

CPA's e-mail is cpa@tsukino.ca -- that is probably your best bet for information on CPA. I guess you are under the impression this is me alone doing this. That is true, in the sense that we haven't hammered out a corporate structure yet. Maybe this is something you could assist us with if you were to join us.

I trust Patrick to verify you are legit and hope he takes the offer.

One way you can prove you actually have the assets backing your claims is to regularly move coins around after pre announcing the addresses you move it to.

Is CPA not going to use the float to generate more revenue?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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July 03, 2012, 07:31:41 AM
 #59

As a potential investor in CPA I am not comfortable with insuring individual 'hacking' cases as they would be near impossible to prove. Maybe require that there was some known breach of security that lead to multiple, verifiable instances. very unlikely, which is fine. ;p

or Make the premiums for unverifiable hacking insurance such that;
A.The premium is 10% of insured value per period and insured is only qualified for n% of payout per x amount of premium periods up until incident.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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July 08, 2012, 10:44:40 PM
 #60


I trust Patrick to verify you are legit and hope he takes the offer.

One way you can prove you actually have the assets backing your claims is to regularly move coins around after pre announcing the addresses you move it to.

Only just stumbled on this while looking for something else - will pm usagi.
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August 23, 2012, 03:34:55 AM
 #61

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

Looking for safe diversification? YABIF: Good Returns, Low Fees, Low Risk.

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August 24, 2012, 09:00:48 PM
 #62

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>
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August 24, 2012, 10:10:01 PM
 #63

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...),

I can't answer the questions about CPA and insurance, but I can inform http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/all-your-base-are-belong-to-us

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August 25, 2012, 10:25:18 AM
 #64

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>


I might have said something like that, but you're going to have to quote me, as I didn't say anything like that in this thread. I'm not denying I said it, but I think you should provide more context. Was I talking about CPA? Was I talking about BMF? YARR? NYAN? Something else? I probably wasn't talking about CPA. That didn't appear in this thread so...

The thread in question is locked so I don't know how to properly quote.
However, the quote is from this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is under number (7), at the end of Techshare's opening post.

Since you were talking about an insurance company I assume it was CPA.


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August 26, 2012, 10:57:35 AM
 #65

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley

Ok, 20%; in fact your contract states that no more than 25% of exposure should go to a single sector. Could you then explain me this?
http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/

Type:                Pirate Account   
BTC exposure: 1,280   
Percentage:     47.76%

either I can't read this figures, or CPA will go down to about 0.5 per share in the event of a complete default.
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August 27, 2012, 08:56:52 AM
 #66

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley

Ok, 20%; in fact your contract states that no more than 25% of exposure should go to a single sector. Could you then explain me this?
http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/

Type:                Pirate Account   
BTC exposure: 1,280   
Percentage:     47.76%

either I can't read this figures, or CPA will go down to about 0.5 per share in the event of a complete default.

I haven't updated that section of the spreadsheet in a while. We've signed quite a few deals, that contract is less than 15% of our total assets, our total exposure to pirate is about 20-25% as stated.

Thanks! Now I can buy  Smiley
Please update those spreadsheets often, these are troubled times, correct information is vital!
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September 03, 2012, 07:31:38 AM
 #67

Please update those spreadsheets often, these are troubled times, correct information is vital!

Seems you didn't take my advice too seriously. http://www.tsukino.ca/cpa/accounts/ still has not a "september" spreadsheet, while the august one has modified the NAV, losing more than 40% (at worst 25%, were you saying?  Angry ), while still showing "last updated: 1 august".

NYAN has an eccellent transparency and communication, I was hoping it would be the same here, was I mistaken?
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September 06, 2012, 10:15:17 PM
 #68

In the event of a full pirate default, is CPA solvent? I know you had a ton of pirate insurance that was not in YARR, or NYAN.

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

So play your cards Smiley Buy or sell, and only the future knows what will happen Smiley


I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here  (I don't really know what launching all zigs means...), but how does the above quote relate to the quote below (your reply to techshare regarding the dispute over payments for logo work)?
For the record, the quote below is from august 18th, five days before the above quote, and the bolds are both by me.

Hi!

Unfortunately Pirate's BTCS&T just blew up. As an insurance company we're launching all zigs. I have to stop this. I am not going to be able to use any of the designs, and we might go under.

Sorry o_o it was a bad time for us to get into the insurance business, right before pirate collapsed :>


I might have said something like that, but you're going to have to quote me, as I didn't say anything like that in this thread. I'm not denying I said it, but I think you should provide more context. Was I talking about CPA? Was I talking about BMF? YARR? NYAN? Something else? I probably wasn't talking about CPA. That didn't appear in this thread so...

The thread in question is locked so I don't know how to properly quote.
However, the quote is from this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is under number (7), at the end of Techshare's opening post.

Since you were talking about an insurance company I assume it was CPA.




Oh I was just trying not to be an asshole to TECSHARE since his art was shit and he was moving away from the guidance I gave him and not following the direction I wanted to take. He kept saying that he couldn't do what I wanted and that what I wanted was boring, so I just fired him. I was trying to be nice about it too. Sheesh, some people.

So now you feel it necessary to slander me further? You made a mistake and this all could have been avoided by simply admitting it rather than attempting to intimidate and slander me into submission.

In case anyone is wondering if you can trust anything out of USAGI's mouth here is a direct quote after he reviewed my work:

..."So once again, the top center image and bottom center image are my two favorites and I would like to move forward with those. This is my first purchase of a logo so I'm unsure of what to do next. I originally had the idea that you would design a banner add as well (like the https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38544.msg472116#msg472116]two for IBB or for bitcointrading). Almost anything would be good because there are no really good advertisements around here IMO. So I just need to get something out pretty quickly, although you can take your time (lol) if you like.

Ok so let's see. I assume you will want 15 bitcoins for all this. I like those logos so I can pay half (7.5) bitcoins right now for those logos? And then we can move forward on the banner add? Or what is your suggestion.. thanks"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102798.0

It is quite obvious based on his statements posted on the above link he canceled the agreement because of his failing company. You reap what you sew buddy, and I wouldn't be here if you had stopped your slander.
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September 07, 2012, 06:46:13 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2012, 06:57:36 PM by Factory
 #69

retracted.
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September 07, 2012, 07:19:46 PM
 #70

Interesting. Why did you retract ?

retracted.
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September 07, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
 #71

Interesting. Why did you retract ?

retracted.

I decided to send what I posted via PM to Usagi instead.
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September 07, 2012, 07:27:27 PM
 #72

retracted. (Usagi is a horrible businessman and totally mismanaged the money by underestimating risks at every turn)

That was about the extent of it, right?

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September 07, 2012, 07:31:51 PM
 #73

retracted. (Usagi is a horrible businessman and totally mismanaged the money by underestimating risks at every turn)

That was about the extent of it, right?

Yes. Though I was a bit more loquacious and long-winded with my post.  Grin

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.
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September 07, 2012, 07:37:46 PM
 #74



And one more thing. Another big, big effort I made in order to build trust within the community was to host a round table discussion group which during it's time had some of the biggest names around on it. We discussed operations, I laid out plans, and I basically gave everyone a share of the power CPA had. It was a great idea. But one by one the people on it left because they were unwilling to put their name behind CPA. Over and over again I was told that I couldn't be trusted and people didn't want to associate with me or CPA because they thought maybe they would get sued or something. WTF? Yeah right.

....

One man alone can't do this. I needed to trust the people around me but they all pretty much bailed or (essentially) ripped me off one way or another. What a disappointment.

I would suggest that a group of people throwing around ideas is a good thing, but that does not mean you have to give up control to these people.  There needs to be one person that calls the shots and that makes the final decisions.  If you want people to help you then that is OK, but I think you need to re-evaluate how you organize your business.  If you need help then give the person willing to help a percentage of the profits.

Having people to advise is fine, but the final decisions have to stop with you.  Look at Bitcoinica, no one knew who was in charge and it all fell apart.  No one is going to put their name behind something that they do not have 100% control of.

Also, who cares what other people feel about you.  Do your work, insure some things, show you are reliable, handle your customers and workers well, and then you will have a good reputation.  If someone  has a problem then try to find a solution to make that person happy.  If that person is unreasonable, then refund them their money and decline any future business with that person.  There is no need to have accusations thrown back and forth between two parties, it does damage to your reputation.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 07:41:39 PM
 #75

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

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September 07, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
 #76

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Also, I would suggest to not to do so many different things, NYAN, YARR, CPA, etc, too many projects.  Stick to one thing or delegate your investments from the float out to someone else and give that person a percent of the profits.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 07:50:48 PM
 #77

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Oh, I agree very much that it is a blazing new frontier. My original post was perhaps a bit too judgmental and did not give Usagi credit for trying to do something that - in theory - would be very beneficial for the btc community. For that, I have to give him an A. The execution of the plan, however, receives an F.

With that said, here is the original post:

-----------------------------------------Start Retracted Post-------------------------------------------
Hello, I'd like to make a quick announcement.

Dividends (and the monthly report) are being delayed until this Sunday so I can do them at the same time as NYAN/BMF/YARR. However I will give a sneak peek of the kind of report I will release on sunday. And it's a very pissed off report.

First, the obvious. CPA won't pay dividends this month because of the pirate collapse. CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.

When we started, everyone was calling me a scam artist and a ponzi runner. I was desperate to build trust in the community so I chose five of the most respected lenders I could find and invested ~500 BTC with each of them. No names (for now). only one of them was actually able to pay back the money. Every other deposit-taker has either stalled or has told me that they have lost substantial amounts of CPA's money (25-50% and more, in almost every case).


The actual investments that CPA has run (or me) such as NYAN, have been fine. And yes the market has gone down, that's true. BMF lost 40% of it's value because we invested right before the ASIC news. I know that. But it is a little disheartening to have to come back to the community in this way  because I went to the community in the first place for trust and it was the community itself that let me down.

it's basically come down to, if the last 2 people I invested money with can't pay back, there will be no way to hide or avoid the losses, and CPA's net value will go to zero.

We still make money, we still have contracts, we just don't have any free assets. How much is CPA worth? I really have no idea. It's probably time for you guys to start waking up and forgetting about 1% returns a week; real world businesses usually make 5-10% a year. Not a month, a year. Oh and by the way that's where mining will be in six months too. So there you go.

In a worst case scenario all existing shareholders will get a buyout for 0.10 or 0.20, maybe with my own personal money and I will reissue new shares to back the profit and obligations of existing contracts. It's either that or go to zero and cease operations. And that means YARR too.

Then again, the people CPA puts money with could pay us back.

No names. Except one. Patrick Harnett returned my money almost immediately and was all around pretty professional about it.

And one more thing. Another big, big effort I made in order to build trust within the community was to host a round table discussion group which during it's time had some of the biggest names around on it. We discussed operations, I laid out plans, and I basically gave everyone a share of the power CPA had. It was a great idea. But one by one the people on it left because they were unwilling to put their name behind CPA. Over and over again I was told that I couldn't be trusted and people didn't want to associate with me or CPA because they thought maybe they would get sued or something. WTF? Yeah right.

So I am actually kind of pissed off at the shitty community around here. CPA was really a way to fix that community, to build trust and to try and prevent the next big scam (which for many people it did. We bought back over 2200 btc worth of YARR and paid out on several pirate insured contracts).

It really pissed me off when people like ########## would ramble on about how untrustworthy I was or my business was.

But something like this you know, one man can't do it alone. I needed a team. I needed to work with the community. Well actually I am so pissed off at this that I think once CPA pays out on it's obligations I'll just shut it down.

One man alone can't do this. I needed to trust the people around me but they all pretty much bailed or (essentially) ripped me off one way or another. What a disappointment.

Step 1. You form an insurance venture for other btc-based ventures. An essential function of insurance companies is to appropriately calculate and understand risk.
Step 2a. You invest a large portion of capital into pirate-based securities, which was/is a black box - ie. the risks can not be calculated at all.
Step 2b. You lend money to individuals who fail to pay you back.
Step 3. Your insurance venture crumbles as though it were a castle made of sand.
Step 4. You blame everyone who you lent to.

It is the job of the insurer to fully analyze and understand the full profile of all operations in terms of risk and soundness.

You either:

  1. Failed to calculate and understand the risks.

    Did not realize the severity of the risks involved.
    Did not charge large enough premiums that would be rationalized by such risk.
    Did not create a balanced and diversified portfolio adequately conservative enough to create a 'buffer' against unanticipated losses.

or:
 
  2. Ignored the risks.

    Did not avoid said securities after finding them to be overly risky and full of unknown variables, and were lured by the thought of extremely high returns.


When insurers take large and unanticipated losses, it is their fault and their fault alone. Take some responsibility for your actions.



*I have never been a CPA shareholder, but I felt compelled to plainly illustrate this after reading what has occurred.
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September 07, 2012, 08:02:33 PM
 #78

I have never been a shareholder of CPA, so I retracted as I figured he would receive plenty of flak from his actual shareholders.

I am not a shareholder (yet). I think Usagi is blazing a new frontier here, bitcoins need a way to insure against losses but since this has never been done before it is understandable that the risks are hard to measure. We now know the premiums for insuring deposits in HYIPs should be much higher. Perhaps a more conservative and diversified portfolio of investments would be good, you just need to find somebody trustworthy you can lend the coins to, like me  Grin

Also, I would suggest to not to do so many different things, NYAN, YARR, CPA, etc, too many projects.  Stick to one thing or delegate your investments from the float out to someone else and give that person a percent of the profits.

I completely agree. Spreading ones-self to thin will always make things difficult. Actuarial Science is extremely complex by nature, and I can not imagine trying to head CPA + other ventures at the same time.
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September 07, 2012, 09:17:04 PM
 #79



Yup that was me. It was a round table, yes -- but I got to be King Arthur.

...

Yes, we had policies like that. I am not sure but I think I invited you to join -- or at least I probably should have. I can't remember if I did and you turned me down, or if I didn't ask. But it would have been nice of you to join Smiley

...

No it does not do damage to my own reputation when other people are incapable of living up to their contracts and promises.

I did not join because I don't do partnerships.  Not saying that it is not a bad investment but I like to have control over my investments.  I give free advise and ideas though so feel free to email me if you want.

As for people that give you criticism, advise, or are incapable of living up to their promises; it can affect your reputation in the manner that you respond to them.  There is a fine line between protecting your reputation and losing the reputation you already have by the way you react.

If it is someone is saying you are a scammer, reply that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we can all choose to do business with anyone else we choose in this free market.


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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September 07, 2012, 09:41:56 PM
 #80

The point is: as an insurer, your job is to understand risk; yet you did not.

It does not really matter if you were "forced" to deposit. If you misjudged the risk investing, you would also have misjudged it insuring other people's deposits.

Blame it on the shitty community, if you please; maybe it's so shitty no one in the world could possibly have managed to successfully make business; the fact here is you didn't.

This said, let's just hope not everything is lost and we can all start again, having learnt from our mistakes... CPA is still something the BItcoin world really needs.
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September 07, 2012, 10:07:37 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2012, 10:20:26 PM by Factory
 #81

CPA is the company that actually paid out on all the pirate contracts.

I admire you for payout out on all contracts. I have never said anything against you being honest in your work. You honor your contracts; good, you should.

What I did speak of, is you either improperly evaluated risk or ignored risk in regards to contracts. Clearly, the total risk from all of your contracts was IMMENSE, because now CPA has lost most of it's working capital.  Clearly, the total risk from all of your investments  was IMMENSE, because 4 out of the 5 largest defaulted and now CPA has lost most of it's working capital.

CPA is the one who didn't fuck things up.

I am not so sure of that. You seem to have made some decisions that have put CPA in a very difficult position.

We lost money by listening to the community's stupid fucking idea

So you blame the community for having an idea rather than acknowledging it was you who listened to their idea?

it's not MY fucking fault that someone else lied about their pirate exposure.

You allowed CPA to rest in the hands of several individuals with no official papers/verification of any sort? That seems like that kind of an approach could lead to serious troubles. If they don't provide proof, then that is an immense risk within itself. If they can't provide proof, then how can you make a smart and informed decision when weighing risk and determining an appropriate return? You couldn't have and you didn't.

Traditional insurance companies invest their float extremely conservatively. You attempted to invest your float into 'respectable' individuals that could be considered conservative (relative to most btc risk/returns.) If the funds that those traditional insurance companies invest in misrepresent their holdings, that is fraud and grounds for legal action. With btc-investing that is likely not an option, and that should have been calculated as a major risk and been worked it into your business model.

Thank you very much for rubbing salt into the wound and pouring lemon juice on it to suggest that losing the money was my fault.
Please, Usagi, understand that I am not trying to hurt your feelings or be offensive; I enjoy trying create a better dialogue between issuers, investors, and potential investors. I honestly hope through this dialogue we all learn a bit and create some new ideas. I hope that some of the lent money is returned so you can continue and operate a leaner and meaner CPA.

*On a side note: salt can help sterilize a wound and lemon juice can help stop bleeding. The more you know......
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September 08, 2012, 06:43:31 AM
 #82

If you left money with people and they are refusing to pay back that is grounds for scammer labels. It would really help if other people could avoid those who turn out to be untrustworthy.

I suggest posting in the scammer accusations section a list of those who need a kick in the balls.

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September 08, 2012, 02:50:46 PM
 #83

The point we are making is that even if you were lied to, it was your job to know how the money was invested, and it was your job to diversify investments in order to avoid this very situation.

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September 08, 2012, 02:51:53 PM
 #84

All I can say is we're working on it, but it's a big laugh to suggest it was somehow my fault or to say (as some have) that CPA will crumble like a castle made of sand. When I said I would close CPA I said because I was pissed, not because we didn't have money to pay out. We have the money to pay out easily. That isn't the issue. Once again, the issue is that other people who said they weren't invested in pirate apparently lied to us. Once again, for the people who need help with this point, that isn't my fault.

Of course, regarding the contract between you and the deposit takers, they are in the wrong, and it's their fault.

From the CPA investors' standpoint, it's purely your fault, because you are the responsible party. It doesn't have to be fair, though you knew the risk and you could have easily stored your backing in cold storage. Deflecting these points put you in a worse position in the eyes of us investors.

Instead of this useless exchange, I would rather hear about how you will make it right. I don't want my shares to go to 0 in value, and I don't want them to stay at this price level either. However eccentric, I'd prefer to hear about a plan, a long term plan, that will take this company back on track.
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September 08, 2012, 04:06:42 PM
 #85

So, just to be clear here... you created an asset to provide insurance coverage for investors in a "high risk" investment environment, and then to secure your investors capital, you invested in the EXACT SAME MARKET THAT YOU WERE INSURING??? You were protecting investments by dumping your money into the same investment vehicle?

And now you want to dump the blame off on others who were your "round table" of advisers, or the very same "high reputation" folks that you sent 500 btc sums to, without checking to see what they might do with the funds? Better yet- you carefully selected the dame high reputation folks who were flogging the same investment game that you were insuring against, and you didn't expect them to dump your money into the same scheme?

Either you are nerve dead from the neck up, or the most naive imbecile imaginable. And to start with the whining about how you got done wrong when this is your actions, your poor choices, and your criminally poor decision making? Shameful.

Glad I dumped the hell out of your asset before you showed your true, and grossly incompetent colors.
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September 08, 2012, 05:45:07 PM
 #86

Error #1: trusting ANYONE involved in bitcoin who claims to be able to double your money in a year.

Error #2: offering insurance and then recklessly giving that capital away to unknowns offering unrealistic promises.

Error #3: trusting your funds without understanding what was going to be done with them, and thinking that they would not run to the flavor of the month offering 7% per week.

Error #4: bringing your case to the court of public opinion as part of your rationale for failing to honor your commitments.

But take heart... it looks like there are still believing enough souls that want Tinkerbell to succeed with this great insurance ponzi in the sky.

If you have the fortitude to hear a Devil's Advocate you may add me to your round table. I won't lie to you, I won't take your money, I don't offer investments, and I sure as hell will call it a duck when it starts quacking.
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September 08, 2012, 08:07:37 PM
 #87

CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.
Well as they say, capital does tend to flow from weak hands to strong hands ;-)

Eloquently put, Usagi.
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September 08, 2012, 08:58:43 PM
 #88

I'm only just starting to get involved in investing here - but there's something I just don't understand about the decision to insure Pirate bonds in the first place.

Roughly what CPA did appears to be:

You had X bit coins.
You sold insurance on X amount of pirate investment charging 1.5% per week.
You also invested the X bitcoins elsewhere generating naother 1-2% per week.

Possible outcomes each week:

1.  Everything gos well (no pirate default) - you make 2.5%-3% per week on your capital.
2.  Pirate defaults - you lose 98-99% of your X bitcoins.

For the life of me I can't see how this is better than just investing your X bitcoins directly with Pirate (or in a pass-through).  The extra returns you were making from your (supposedly non-Pirate) investment didn't cover the difference between the 2.5%-3% you stood to make each week and the rate you could have got just investing directly into Pirate (whilst still having full exposure to him defaulting). 

The only way the insurance could do better than investing in Pirate was if you only actually had a small fraction of X in actual bitcoins in the first place.  But you didn't do that (and rightly so).

Am I missing something - or was your pirate insurance always effectively a charity offering that accepted pirate risk whilst not delivering anything like the returns of actually investing in him?

Note also that investing direct in Pirate wouldn't introduce the extra risk your insurance added - of default by your other investment targets when Pirate defaults, where you lose X AND owe X to your policy holders.
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September 08, 2012, 09:11:54 PM
 #89

All I can say is a lot of people are full of shit and their word is not worth the toilet paper its printed on.

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September 08, 2012, 10:06:38 PM
 #90


You'll call anything a duck. You don't know what you're talking about. 1, who do you invest in? Even mining pays 1.5% a week. 2, you casually toss around the word 'recklessly', where were you 2 months ago? 3, I was lied to. Again--> who do you invest with? What due dilligence have YOU done that I had not? 4, you don't know what you're talking about.

The only thing I take heart in is that people such as yourselves realize that putting your foot in your mouth makes you look silly ;-)

I mean really, how many times do I have to say it --> it isn't like we're not paying out. We already paid out over 80% of what we owe with the rest on the way. That isn't and never was the problem.
Nope, only ducklings.

Primarily Canadian oil shale ventures, and Norwegian Seafood farming companies. On GLBSE I pick and choose carefully, and don't pretend I can beat the system.

Reckless - reck·less [rek-lis]
     adjective
     1. utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless (usually followed by of ): to be reckless of danger.
     2. characterized by or proceeding from such carelessness: reckless extravagance.
Covering your risk profile with investments in the same market you are covering would indeed be considered "reckless" in a fiduciary responsibility kind of a way.

Two months ago I was here doing the same sort of bullshit detecting that I am doing with your thread. Coincidentally I was invested in CPA at that time with a relatively small position. Bought in early July, dumped out three weeks later when you missed your first dividend payment. Basically broke even. Had I held to today my investment would be worth about 20% of what it cost me.

You were lied to? How about your customers when you made these interesting claims:

In the event of a full pirate default, NYAN.C will loose out, and CPA holds NYAN which holds NYAN.C. Then we have contracts on the outside as well. All in all CPA will remain very solvent, it may lose 20% of it's value in a full default. But we stands just as ready to gain 20% if pirate doesn't default.

First, the obvious. CPA won't pay dividends this month because of the pirate collapse. CPA has lost about 40% of it's value. And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum.

Every other deposit-taker has either stalled or has told me that they have lost substantial amounts of CPA's money (25-50% and more, in almost every case).

We still make money, we still have contracts, we just don't have any free assets. How much is CPA worth? I really have no idea.

Another big, big effort I made in order to build trust within the community was to host a round table discussion group which during it's time had some of the biggest names around on it. We discussed operations, I laid out plans, and I basically gave everyone a share of the power CPA had... One man alone can't do this. I needed to trust the people around me but they all pretty much bailed or (essentially) ripped me off one way or another. What a disappointment.

Selecting some of your keys statements since this latest debacle began, so it's not my foot going in my mouth, rather yours going into the community's ass as your hand goes into their pocket.

Which is it- total insolvency or just a few crumbs?

Which is it- 40%, 20%, or 80%?

How, if you invested carefully (and not at all recklessly!) did 80% of your surety holders manage to lose 25-50% of your investment, and you have no idea of what they were doing with the money?

How are you still "making money" but considering folding up your tent and walking away from the market, without even so much as a "Fuck your mother" to the poor bastards that invested in your poor impulse control?

Little dude you are in deep shit here, you blew it. Poking insults at me won't fix YOUR fuck-up in this matter. Quit looking for people to blame and start handling your business. And at least try to get your stories straight.
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September 08, 2012, 10:28:17 PM
 #91

who would have guessed this would happen?
CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.
Well as they say, capital does tend to flow from weak hands to strong hands ;-)

Eloquently put, Usagi.

Have to laugh. But really, anyone who trusted this asshat deserves what is to come. It was an obvious scam since day one. He's been opening other scam sites like crazy to make up the difference, guess he didn't hit his mark to cash out before shit went south. See online wallet and shitty gambling sites coded in less than 20 minutes as example.

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September 08, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
 #92

From the CPA investors' standpoint, it's purely your fault, because you are the responsible party. It doesn't have to be fair, though you knew the risk and you could have easily stored your backing in cold storage. Deflecting these points put you in a worse position in the eyes of us investors.

Incorrect. First, you're speaking for all the shareholders, which you can't do unless you are organizing them (which you're not). Secondly and quite importantly, yes it does have to be fair. Oh sure, I agree with you, in an unfair world everything is my fault. You can feel free to blame me in that situation.

Look, I have been in similar situations before, you just need to cry alone and face your lenders with a firm smile. Fairness has nothing to do with it, that's why it doesn't need to be fair. Is it fair to me that you failed to store my money in a proper off-line wallet? I'm a shareholder and I hold you responsible. That is how real world operates. You shouldn't have started this business if you aren't aware of this fact.

Isn't it Bitcoinica's fault that their money was stolen? Can they come to me and tell me it's not their fault? They were robbed for god's sake and we are still suing them. Is it fair? Should we change the system and start accepting everyone's apology? Have you even apologized?

I am speaking for all shareholders. I don't need to prove to you that I am. Do you want signatures? Do you really want us organized?

What we want to hear from you is apologies and promises. Please change your attitude. We trusted you, and we can still trust you if you do so. I believe that this company can be fixed, but you have to accept all these and still be willing to do it despite that.

Have to laugh. But really, anyone who trusted this asshat deserves what is to come. It was an obvious scam since day one.

I for one don't believe it ever was or is a scam. Usagi has always met his/her obligations, so I trust the honesty. It's a lot of inexperience and mismanagement, and this affects only the investors and not the clients. That's why I think there is a chance that this can be fixed.
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September 08, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
 #93

who would have guessed this would happen?
CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.
Well as they say, capital does tend to flow from weak hands to strong hands ;-)

Eloquently put, Usagi.

Have to laugh. But really, anyone who trusted this asshat deserves what is to come. It was an obvious scam since day one. He's been opening other scam sites like crazy to make up the difference, guess he didn't hit his mark to cash out before shit went south. See online wallet and shitty gambling sites coded in less than 20 minutes as example.



I don't think you can call it an "obvious scam". He has some contracts sold, many publicly disclosed by the insured party, so he has some income. That is a more verifiable business model than many of the other investments around here.

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September 08, 2012, 11:20:26 PM
 #94

who would have guessed this would happen?
CPA has lost about 40% of it's value.

And when I say 40% I mean, at a minimum. There is another problem on the horizon which is extremely troubling.
Well as they say, capital does tend to flow from weak hands to strong hands ;-)

Eloquently put, Usagi.

Have to laugh. But really, anyone who trusted this asshat deserves what is to come. It was an obvious scam since day one. He's been opening other scam sites like crazy to make up the difference, guess he didn't hit his mark to cash out before shit went south. See online wallet and shitty gambling sites coded in less than 20 minutes as example.



You arent helping things nor offering solutions.

I believe Usagi can turn it around but its going to take a lot of work.

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September 08, 2012, 11:25:03 PM
 #95

I think CPA is bankrupt. I suggest that nobody pay their premiums for insurance that doesn't exist.

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September 08, 2012, 11:29:25 PM
 #96

I think CPA is bankrupt. I suggest that nobody pay their premiums for insurance that doesn't exist.

I suggest people dont break their signed contracts.

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September 08, 2012, 11:34:40 PM
Last edit: September 08, 2012, 11:45:05 PM by memvola
 #97

Am I missing something - or was your pirate insurance always effectively a charity offering that accepted pirate risk whilst not delivering anything like the returns of actually investing in him?

No you aren't missing much. I think it was more of a gamble, which should never have took place. Keep in mind that the bonds were sold with 30% to 70% premium. Regardless, not doing it was is a clear-cut better idea from an insurance standpoint for the exact reasons you stated. The numbers don't add up even if BTCS&T weren't a scam, and you don't insure against anonymous Internet borrowers to only deposit your money in anonymous Internet borrowers.

I think CPA is bankrupt. I suggest that nobody pay their premiums for insurance that doesn't exist.

That would be unethical as well. Usagi already said he would cover it with his own money if need be (correct me I misinterpreted).
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September 08, 2012, 11:42:08 PM
 #98

Am I missing something - or was your pirate insurance always effectively a charity offering that accepted pirate risk whilst not delivering anything like the returns of actually investing in him?

No you aren't missing much. I think it was more of a gamble, which should never have took place. Keep in mind that the bonds were sold with 30% to 70% premium. Regardless, not doing it was is a clear-cut better idea from an insurance standpoint for the exact reasons you stated. The number don't add up even if BTCS&T weren't a scam, and you don't insure against anonymous Internet borrowers to only deposit your money in anonymous Internet borrowers.

I think CPA is bankrupt. I suggest that nobody pay their premiums for insurance that doesn't exist.

That would be unethical as well. Usagi already said he would cover it with his own money if need be (correct me I misinterpreted).


I think a shareholders union is a good idea to at east offer some guidance and protect our interests. To me it seems that the "round table" were only in it to feather their own nests by accepting CPA funds which they basically embezzled.

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September 08, 2012, 11:47:46 PM
 #99

All I can say is we're working on it, but it's a big laugh to suggest it was somehow my fault or to say (as some have) that CPA will crumble like a castle made of sand. When I said I would close CPA I said because I was pissed, not because we didn't have money to pay out. We have the money to pay out easily. That isn't the issue. Once again, the issue is that other people who said they weren't invested in pirate apparently lied to us. Once again, for the people who need help with this point, that isn't my fault.

Of course, regarding the contract between you and the deposit takers, they are in the wrong, and it's their fault.

From the CPA investors' standpoint, it's purely your fault, because you are the responsible party. It doesn't have to be fair, though you knew the risk and you could have easily stored your backing in cold storage. Deflecting these points put you in a worse position in the eyes of us investors.

Instead of this useless exchange, I would rather hear about how you will make it right. I don't want my shares to go to 0 in value, and I don't want them to stay at this price level either. However eccentric, I'd prefer to hear about a plan, a long term plan, that will take this company back on track.


How much assets does CPA have outside the funds sent to "advisors" ? Is this enough to cover contracts CPA has signed with other companies ?

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September 08, 2012, 11:56:54 PM
 #100

Am I missing something - or was your pirate insurance always effectively a charity offering that accepted pirate risk whilst not delivering anything like the returns of actually investing in him?

No you aren't missing much. I think it was more of a gamble, which should never have took place. Keep in mind that the bonds were sold with 30% to 70% premium. Regardless, not doing it was is a clear-cut better idea from an insurance standpoint for the exact reasons you stated. The number don't add up even if BTCS&T weren't a scam, and you don't insure against anonymous Internet borrowers to only deposit your money in anonymous Internet borrowers.


It just baffles me how someone could actually look at two options:

A)  Invest in pirate pass-through and get (say) 6% per week with risk of losing their capital if pirate defaults,
B)  Insure others investing in pirate and invest their capital elsewhere and get (say) 5% per week with exact same risk of losing their capital AND an additional risk of losing DOUBLE their capital if 2nd investment gos south as well

And come to the conclusion that B) was the better option.  What conceivable thought-process could reach that choice?

The only way this would work would be if capital were only a small part of the amount insured - but that couldn't be done when you were only insuring one ponzi (as all policies would come due at the same time).   If CPA had been insuring a lot of ponzis then it could be profitable (as you could run with a lot lower capital:cover ratio) - but you'd need seriously good data about how long on average they operated for before running with the funds.

The only thing more baffling to me than this is how others could think that the person who chose B) was a good choice to invest in (or to stay invested in).  
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September 09, 2012, 12:27:06 AM
 #101

B)  Insure others investing in pirate and invest their capital elsewhere and get (say) 5% per week with exact same risk of losing their capital AND an additional risk of losing DOUBLE their capital if 2nd investment gos south as well

The only thing more baffling to me than this is how others could think that the person who chose B) was a good choice to invest in (or to stay invested in).  

To be fair, hindsight is 20/20. These people told they were not investing in pirate, and they guaranteed the deposits. The main problem I see is that both the insured item and the backing were in the same risk zone.

I think a shareholders union is a good idea to at east offer some guidance and protect our interests. To me it seems that the "round table" were only in it to feather their own nests by accepting CPA funds which they basically embezzled.

I'm in.
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September 09, 2012, 12:58:18 AM
 #102

Whats the point of having shareholders if one person makes all the decisions ? There have been zero shareholder motions and we certainly never got to vote for this "board of directors" that embezzled company funds.

If you have a company board this is usually public and shareholders need to approve. What we have ended up with is an unapproved board making decisions without permission of shareholders in the company.

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September 09, 2012, 02:10:15 PM
 #103

I think a shareholders union is a good idea to at east offer some guidance and protect our interests. To me it seems that the "round table" were only in it to feather their own nests by accepting CPA funds which they basically embezzled.

That's the second time you've said that. Why are you lying?

How would you even know? You're just talking shit like everyone else.

May I remind you I put 100 bitcoins of my own money into BMF to keep it afloat? That's my management style. Embezzle? Lol, here's my favorite quote so far:

All I can say is a lot of people are full of shit and their word is not worth the toilet paper its printed on.
Lying about what?HuhHuh

There have been no shareholder motions so any decisions are yours alone and no one voted for any board of directors.
Yes people claiming to offer "insured" deposits are full of shit and their word is worth nothing. Was this board of advisors in any way related to the ones who received CPA funds for "safekeeping" ? It appears they socially engineered you in that case.


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September 09, 2012, 02:42:53 PM
 #104

Where on earth are you getting your info? Probably the same place Goat gets his info we have no assets.

People -- relax.

We'll relax as soon as you provide the correct informations. Please stop posting and finish that "letter to shareholders"; until then this discussion is totally worthless since from what you said one could come to think almost anything, from "CPA will go on more or less well" to "CPA is dead tomorrow".
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September 09, 2012, 03:29:24 PM
 #105

Letter to Shareholders for August 2012:

This month saw the fateful crash of CPA share price due to a number of factors. I will briefly touch upon these factors and share with you the future direction of CPA. As always, if you have questions or comments post them here, or email them to cpa@tsukino.ca.

1. Pirate Defaulted
Lo and behold, the inevitable happened. I had been advised by the round table to cut our pirate exposure. As a direct result of me listening to and taking the guidance of the people on the board, we cut 5,000 bitcoins worth of pirate contracts, leaving only one, 1000-bitcoin pirate contract. This was strategic. Our plan was to wait for default and then gain respect and credibility in the community by paying out on that contract.

2. Everyone we invested money in ended up making mistakes and losing all or part of our money.
Everyone except Patrick Harnett. Deadterra's Gamma Bitcoin Fund lost 25% of it's value (or more). Hashking's "guaranteed, insured" fund turned out to be in pirate (hope you're ready for that scammer tag HK). Imsaguy is having liquidity issues; he can probably pay us back and we are working with him on it. It's quite sad actually, that the only possible due dilligence we could have done turned out to be a lie. It's easy to say x y or z in hindsight, but hashking for example was a well-respected member of our community before this. No one can honestly say that this was an avoidable mistake; it wasn't just one lender but almost everyone.

3. We can (and will) pay out on all contracts.
First, YARR has been paid, and there is money sitting in the YARR account right now making bids at 1. Sell now and get your money, no one is going to pay 1.30 for your YARR shares, get over it. Two, we owe one more person about 600-700 bitcoins. We have over 1400 shares of NYAN we are trying to sell to raise the money and to back new contracts. Reports of our demise or lack of assets were pathetically misinformed; People were probably trying to panic you into selling on the cheap. I know some idiot sold over 1,000 shares to me at 0.02. Well done my man, you got manipulated. I have zero sympathy for people who do that, in spite of all the comments and assurances I have made over this issue.

4. CPA dividend estimate going forward
with 50,000 shares outstanding and a monthly income of 70+ bitcoins from premiums and investment income of around 5% monthly, we expect to pay a fat 10% dividend going forward (after the war chest gets filled) making CPA a screaming buy at 0.033. A big laugh goes out at the people who called for our untimely demise including and not limited to the people saying so in this thread. You trolls know jack and think you're important. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? I can tell you I am personally planning to buy 250 BTC worth of shares next week and I have personally bought 1500 bitcoins worth of CPA at 0.1. I believe in this company and it will succeed despite the ramblings of a couple of worthless internet trolls. I put that on the record.

5. Release of asset info/company policy/spreadsheets

Nahh, I don't think so. When we started YARR, the first, biggest and best (and highest paying) insured pirate passthru everyone took our books and started running their own version of it. Let's be honest, 4 people tried to copy us. We would have broken even on pirate premiums instead of losing about 500 bitcoins in this debacle, had we had more exclusive access to the market. If you think I have no good ideas fine, who cares right? OTOH if you want access to our books maybe you should apply for a job. We can use people for various things. We hired three different people as securities analysis for example, each one who failed miserably and horribly at simple tasks such as "Calculate the market cap for every issue on GLBSE". We also need advertising people. Otherwise there isn't a snowball's chance in hell you will guilt trip us into releasing what amnounts to corporate secrets. you think CPA is a scam? You think we don't know what we're doing? Go run your own insurance company. Setting aside money from your business is not insurance. It can't even compete. It's just some of your profits which are being with-held. Real insurance is capable of paying out 100 bitcoins on 5 bitcoins premium. Just ask Mollison. Psychoticboy. Kakobrekla. Ask them if we paid.

Remember, being able to pay, and to actually have paid in full, does not imply we are OUT of capital. It imples we have MORE capital because we didn't pay "most", we paid "all".

6. Future Direction

CPA will continue to make 10% a month on current NAV and we aim to spend the most effort expanding operations via Nyancat financial. We will continue to sign new contracts after the share sale this week. We have hotwallet as a pet project which has a currently profitable game running (dragon dice). We have a matchmaker service which is fully operational and running now, which is not on the books but which may be added later or spun out as dividend. We also have an online language school in the works with proven software and textbooks which have already been written which we can IPO and make a profit on immediately. There are a lot of ways forward for us. We are also aiming to change BMF's contract, which will be announced next in the BMF thread. BTW, regarding Nyancat Financial, you'll just have to wait a bit more for the weekly letter, the matthew situation demands a full explanation and I am waiting for news from Matthew.

7. My forum rep

Judge me if you want but when the dust settles, it's a real pity more people didn't sign contracts with CPA because we could have helped a lot of people. Most of the people who are attacking us have real sore asses one way or another form the pirate debacle. It's a pity they can't man up and admit they should have trusted CPA in the first place. We will continue paying out on contracts and doing our best and that is what I say counts in the end.

 ===

p.s. goat you brought yourself into this by making a lot of unfounded statements about me and CPA over a period of months... it isn't like we haven't had this chat before so I will cut it short; you don't trust me but you will trust some random idiot that doesn't know anything, you accuse me of running a scam and you turn around and try the same thing yourself (insured pirate) then you claim we have no assets and insinuate that you will invest with us if we did, then change your story to that of general mistrust. Then when pointed out that your position makes no sense since we paid out on everything as we promised (because we are an insurance company) you .... Oh well I said I would cut it short. If you want in to the round table goat you know what you need to do.
I want to state that GBF is not a guaranteed venture like the others on that list, I broke no agreement nor did I not deliver anything I didn't promise.
//DeaDterra
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September 09, 2012, 03:53:37 PM
 #106

Lol, you were bitching me out about being a scam 2 months ago and now you're at it again. Funny how each time you get proven wrong you seem to disappear for a while.

I don't feel the need to state the obvious over and over again. That would be the definition of a troll, but on these forums it seems like people think it's "someone that disagrees with me" It's just like how I trolled pirate, or Matthew on him not paying his bet, or BTC Guy selling hardware he didn't have. I'm starting to notice a pattern here, hmm. The only legit business I "troll" is bitinstant because I think they are unethical and sleazy.

Of course your scam is still afloat, you have how many securities, "hotwallets" and other sites supporting it? It's only a matter of time before it comes crumbling down, but I won't say I told you so, because I don't take pleasure rubbing shit in peoples nose. I do feel it's worth mentioning a couple times here and there to warn people though. That's exactly what I did. Don't worry I won't keep posting here either. I don't mean to shit up threads or get into internet arguments, but I stand by the accusation you are dishonest business man. With such a deep reach into bitcoin you'll be attending the bitcoin conference that's coming up correct?
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September 09, 2012, 04:00:01 PM
 #107

I want to state that GBF is not a guaranteed venture like the others on that list, I broke no agreement nor did I not deliver anything I didn't promise.
//DeaDterra

That is true, you were actually the first one to pay us.

We would put more money in Gamma (and plan to buy the GLBSE issue with Nyan) but CPA is a little short of funds now ^^

Next week it's possible that we will have capital again; depends on how fast we can sell those NYAN shares.

If I absolutely have to

If I really need to

I will back-sell assets in A, B and C, buy back shares from NYAN, and have NYAN buy back shares from CPA itself.

Oh my god! I just had an amazing idea on how to pay back Kako TODAY!

Woohoo! CPA is now FREE of ALL liabilitles regarding pirate!

THANK YOU Deadterra.

If it wasn't for your post I wouldn't have thought of this!!!!!
No problems, I am just that boss!
//DeaDTerra
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September 09, 2012, 05:23:14 PM
 #108

Usagi, please cover these points in detail. None of these are meant to troll, and none of these have been properly covered in the thread so far. These are simple and clear points related directly to the operations of CPA.
1. Pirate Defaulted
Lo and behold, the inevitable happened.
How did you apply standard methods of actual science in order to determine proper exposure and calculate the risks of a 'black box' and totally non transparent venture? By traditional means, doing such a task properly impossible.
2. Everyone we invested money in ended up making mistakes and losing all or part of our money.
Everyone except Patrick Harnett.
While most of the lendees failed to return invested capital, are you really claiming that your personal choice to use those lenders was not an error in judgement? Please elaborate how you, as the head of CPA, is not accountable for that decision.
It's quite sad actually, that the only possible due dilligence we could have done turned out to be a lie.
If there is only an extremely limited amount of due diligence you can perform on ways to invest the float of CPA, how can you form sound and logical choices in regards to such activity? By operating whilst knowing you could only perform limited due diligence, weren't the events that have unfolded clearly seen as a possibility? If an insurance company can't analyze and weigh all risks regarding (a variable) and then consciously operates their business in a fashion in which is highly dependent on their choice of (a variable), that is a clear act of negligence. In this case, you allowed CPA to weigh in the hands of investments you admittedly could not perform due diligence on? Please elaborate how you, as the head of CPA, is not accountable for that decision.
I have personally bought 1500 bitcoins worth of CPA at 0.1.
It saddens me that someone would say this like it's a good thing.

While there are no rules against it (as btc is not regulated at all), this is on all accounts unethical. You hold a fiduciary capacity to shareholders and this (if nothing else) should raise eyebrows.

1. You announced major problems with CPA (without providing a clear and full picture.) Stated it has lost 40% minimum of it's value.
2. Share price tanks.
3. You  purchase those shares when they know far more than everyone else in regards to what is going on and stands to make a profit (if you are correct that CPA is not in trouble and has good days ahead.)

If you would have done a buyback with CPA funds to buy drastically under priced shares, you would have been fulfilling your fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. Making the conscious choice to buy them for personal profit instead- disclosed after the fact especially- is a clear major breach of trust. In the real world, you would likely catch hellfire, be forced to resign from the company, and face legal consequences. While of course that won't happen here, this illustrates acting in an unethical capacity. There is no grey area in this matter: you made an egregious choice to put yourself before shareholders.

5. Release of asset info/company policy/spreadsheets
Nahh, I don't think so.
You can not get upset at people being highly skeptic of CPA if you do not provide us the information in order to due full due diligence. Plain and simple. You can choose to not agree with us, but to try to discredit us as 'trolls' is disingenuous.

Please also respond fully to this excellent point, which was first raised by memlova and elaborated upon by Deprived:

It just baffles me how someone could actually look at two options:

A)  Invest in pirate pass-through and get (say) 6% per week with risk of losing their capital if pirate defaults,
B)  Insure others investing in pirate and invest their capital elsewhere and get (say) 5% per week with exact same risk of losing their capital AND an additional risk of losing DOUBLE their capital if 2nd investment gos south as well
And come to the conclusion that B) was the better option.  What conceivable thought-process could reach that choice?



I have never said that CPA is a scam, just severely mismanaged. These points illustrate that quite clearly.
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September 09, 2012, 06:19:01 PM
 #109

I have never said that CPA is a scam, just severely mismanaged. These points illustrate that quite clearly.

Fine. Now that you've said your peace, as you're not an investor here, there's no more reason for you to post here.

I know I didn't respond to you directly in this post but I believe the last several PMs we exchanged made my position perfectly clear.

You addressing all of the points I made in my previous post is not for my gain. If you fully address them, it will likely help investors and potential investors understand how CPA functions.

Your PMs to me covered very few of the points I made in my last post. It would likely do for more good for you to address them than to dodge them.
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September 09, 2012, 06:22:06 PM
 #110

I am now a shareholder!  Cheesy  Looks like this discussion has been bad for the share price, somebody filled my lowball order.

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September 09, 2012, 10:53:02 PM
 #111

Quote
it's basically come down to, if the last 2 people I invested money with can't pay back, there will be no way to hide or avoid the losses, and CPA's net value will go to zero.


You posted stuff like this then when the share price takes a dump you admit buying all the cheap shares for your personal holdings ?

I dont know what to say....

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September 09, 2012, 11:45:34 PM
 #112

The whole situation looks a mess largely because of all the various inter-twined enterprises being run by the same individual.

example:

BMF is insured by CPA.  Here's the full text of the policy (call me paranoid - but I don't want no record of it after I've posted) other than the dispute resolution (which is standard - and irrelevant given it's the same party on both ends of the contract):

"A. NAV Insurance Contract
1. BMF ("the customer") will be indemnified (by CPA) against loss defined
   as a NAV (Net Asset Value) of less than 1 per unit.
2. CPA will not be liable for loss greater than 500 bitcoins.
3. Multiple indemnification payments are allowed so far as the total amount
   does not exceed 500 bitcoins.
4. Neither party may cancel this contract although any party may choose to
   accelerate their obligation at any time.
5. All payments by either party must be tagged with .000012 to show that
   they belong to CPA Contract #12. Ex. a payment of 95 btc would be sent
   as 95.000012.

B. Payment of Premium
1. BMF will send 5 bitcoins per calendar week for 110 weeks to CPA at
   [1EGXZ8kPwEeomiepZwwZayZYdH5nQTkc1f] ("CPA Marked Deposit Address").
2. Any and all payments of 5 bitcoins sent to this address will satisfy
   BMF's obligation in this regard.
3. Payments made late (after the insured period begins) will be assigned
   a late fee of 10%.
4. Multiple payments may be sent at the same time provided the marker is
   not changed (i.e. 10.000012 for two weeks, 15.000012 for three weeks).

C. Indemnification
1. From time to time (and/or at the bequest of BMF), CPA will monitor
   BMF's NAV (Net Asset Value).
2. At that time, should BMF's NAV be less than one, CPA will transfer
   100 bitcoins to BMF at address [1N9xQivX5yEYXafjJfeQYtSiq1iT6h9sek]
   ("BMF Marked Deposit Address")."

BMF has just reported it's NAV at 0.57 - but has not signalled any intent to claim under this policy.  A policy which is shoddy - to say the least.

Total liabilty for CPA is 500 BTC - but each individual claim is limited to being 100 BTC.  Multiple claims are allowed yet there's NO MENTION of the cooling-down period (or other criteria) to allow a second claim after a first has been settled.  The sole criteria for paying out is that NAV is below 1 - making the 100 BTC per claim restriction totally pointless as a second claim can immediately be lodged to get another 100 BTC.

WIll there be an insurance claim?  Seems at the moment the insurance policy has been forgotten and the "plan" for BMF is to become a mining company rather than just invest in others.  So why buy the insurance?  To help prop up CPA?

There's also no mention in the contract of what happens if the full 500 BTC is paid out.  Do all future payments end?  Or is BMF obliged to continue paying 5 bTC per week for the remainder of the 110 weeks - despite having no further cover?  If the latter is the case then it's hardly insurance where the total fees for cover over the duration of a single contract exceed the total amount which can be claimed (it's an option for a bailout loan at a low rate of interest).  If the former is the case then charging a 1% premium for cover per week to a company that has just recovered from an earlier drop in nav seems 'generous' at best.

There's other interactions between the various entities run by usagi which look far more like them propping one another up (at the expense of their own share-holders) than indiviudal companies each being run in the interest of their owners. 

e.g.  nyan.a and nyan.b have both currently got 100 BTC loans to nyan.c.  nyan.a supposoedly only invests in low-risk things (a bit like BMF - mainly invetsing in mining shares that have little risk of achieveing anything other than losing NAV faster than dividends can pay for it).  Is nyan.c low risk?  By usagi's own definition (and its catastrophic performance) it's explicitly high-risk.

All this web of comapnies does is obfuscate what's really happening with funds - allow funds to be traded between them so as to prop one another up (on paper, at least).  CPA owns nyan (though is trying to sell it) which is the main investor in nyan.a, nyan,b and nyan.c.  nyan.b, strangely, also has an invetsment in CPA (from book value would guess this is the shares usagi picked up cheap).  none of the nyan's generate any management fee - CPA's profit (lol) from them comes from their own investment in them via nyan.  So if nyan.b is owned by CPA but holds CPA shares we have a nice little circle-jerk which achieves nothing other than increasing apparent liquidity/value of both.

And if usagi sells off CPA's nyan shares then usagi ends up running nyan.a,b and c without any management fee and with no profit from them going to CPA (unless they take out insurance of course).

I'm not accusing usagi of trying to defraud anyone - I don't actually believe he/she is.  I just think they're in way over their head and trying to cover up the mess.  Plus there's shocking insurance policies being written (see above plus the pirate-related ones) - I assume because CPA needs to issue SOME insurance policies to continue to pretend they're an insurance company (what % of current assets are actually backing policies as opposed to being spunked away in mining-bonds, obsi's ponzi or whatever?)

There's one or two real shockers of investments by some of the nyans as well - but here's not the place to discuss that.
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September 10, 2012, 12:22:28 PM
 #113

If I have to I will lock the thread and post a new one with local rules about post count and shareholder eligibility. I'd rather keep going with this one. Or do you want me to create a locked announcements thread? It's your choice.


You should make an IRC channel and have your most trusted shills as OPs. You already have a bet going just like our old buddy might as well copy him exactly. Then finally a public appearance to boost confidence before the house of cards tumbles. But I don't think you could do that because Nefario will notice the person doesn't match the fake ID you provided him.

I mean attacking people based on post account. Calling everyone names. Going though my posts from over 8 months ago to find my quote calling myself a noob because I posted about a topic that was already addressed. Feeling the need to pubically point out you ignored me rather than just actually ignoring me, you must be getting desperate.
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September 12, 2012, 04:15:22 PM
 #114

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.
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September 12, 2012, 04:35:04 PM
 #115

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.

Atlas is trying to pump and dump CPA. I've seen this message many times from random email addresses "Quick, check out penny stock XYZ, which experts call undervalued! The price is about to jump, buy now!"

Atlas, please keep crap like that out of our forum.

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September 12, 2012, 04:50:26 PM
 #116

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.

Atlas is trying to pump and dump CPA. I've seen this message many times from random email addresses "Quick, check out penny stock XYZ, which experts call undervalued! The price is about to jump, buy now!"

Atlas, please keep crap like that out of our forum.

I can't say I am that much of a gambler. I only invested in CPA because I believe their insurance contracts and their future payouts are worth more than .03 BTC a share.

I have an exit strategy but it certainly isn't pump and dump.
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September 13, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
 #117

The whole situation looks a mess largely because of all the various inter-twined enterprises being run by the same individual.

Oh really?

There's also no mention in the contract of what happens if the full 500 BTC is paid out.  Do all future payments end?

This line, as well as quoting the entire contract when all you needed to do was post a link, prove only two things:

1. You don't understand the contract I wrote,

2. You are new here (Jesus, 58 posts?)

Dude, you just got out of the newbies' forum. Seriously, fuck off. You don't even understand the contract. Hang out a little more before you start attacking people.

This contract was announced, publicized, and voted on over a month ago. Where were you then? Exactly.

Go read the contract again and stop posting on my thread pls. You clearly a) are not a shareholder b) are very confused and I really don't have time to sit here and answer a bunch of questions from people who aren't going to invest anyway and are only here to troll.

If I have to I will lock the thread and post a new one with local rules about post count and shareholder eligibility. I'd rather keep going with this one. Or do you want me to create a locked announcements thread? It's your choice.

Now if you have a legitimate question, ask. If you are just spreading bullshit, go away or I'll just lock the thread. We have a FAQ, did you know that? Did you go to our website and read it? Probably not.

Quote
There's other interactions between the various entities run by usagi which look far more like them propping one another up (at the expense of their own share-holders) than indiviudal companies each being run in the interest of their owners. 

e.g.  nyan.a and nyan.b have both currently got 100 BTC loans to nyan.c.  nyan.a supposoedly only invests in low-risk things (a bit like BMF - mainly invetsing in mining shares that have little risk of achieveing anything other than losing NAV faster than dividends can pay for it).  Is nyan.c low risk?  By usagi's own definition (and its catastrophic performance) it's explicitly high-risk.

Hahahahaha, you REALLY don't know what you are talking about. Just go away for a while and think before you post here again. This is painful. I'm not going to re-explain NYAN for you. Go read the contract and the weekly letters to shareholders I have been publishing for the last month. Jeez, some people.. lol

You are deceitful, insulting, and dodge most serious questions, usually with insults. I can't really believe anyone still holds these shares. Quite frankly, I think you're running a multi-headed scam, in the guise of intertwined companies relying on each other (with you double-dealing at the helm) - but most will see it a you "becoming insolvent" )

(BTW, this has been my position since you opened CPA, and has only grown with your increased number of "ventures" schemes to acquire investors' capital. It has not, and will not change, much like your insulting, offensive behavior.

Please don't bother to respond. Save your insults for someone with thinner skin. Jesus. only 585 posts and acting like a total prick already? I thought that was for Hero members & staff only.

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September 14, 2012, 07:44:48 AM
 #118

I dont think glbse can handle many more defaults after the latest pirate debacle. I really hope CPA or NYAN is not the next one to crumble and you can recover the company.


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September 15, 2012, 01:54:25 PM
 #119

CPA has reached an equilibrium since the recent defaults due to Usagi proving she has more than enough assets to cover payouts. It is currently selling well-above NAV due to dividends and other future events. The bids are slowly building up.

Just an FYI to anyone who has been scared off recently.
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September 15, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
 #120

CPA has reached an equilibrium since the recent defaults due to Usagi proving she has more than enough assets to cover payouts. It is currently selling well-above NAV due to dividends and other future events. The bids are slowly building up.

Just an FYI to anyone who has been scared off recently.

If it is selling above the NAV, then now is a good time to sell. Atlas is saying "SELL SELL SELL!"

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September 15, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
 #121

Would an investors' union controlling 5000+ shares represented at the board?
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September 15, 2012, 02:59:42 PM
 #122

"There is absolutely zero reason for me to release any info about CPA outside this circle. "

If you want people outside the circle to use you as insurance then you do have a reason.

She's paid out at 100% every time. Her history says she has assets to pay out obligations. We're not dealing with a jobless junky like Dank here.

I think she has proven herself.
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September 15, 2012, 05:52:12 PM
 #123

Wow, from oblivion to financial adviser in just three weeks!

Look at the big brain on young Atlas! Now offering insider trading advice for an asset that even the HBIC admits looks "scammy or shady". Is willing to offer forward looking statements (without the required disclaimer) about future events (without the legal format) promising returns (illegal) on unexplained events (sound just a bit like pirate yet?), and does this thinking the use of a couple of cute acronyms will lend credence to his "advice".

NVA = Net Asset Value. That's the core physical value of a share, based on actual current analysis. Not based on vague future plans.

Equilibrium = balance. The share price is nowhere near balanced, and the price has been dropped significantly due to the erratic and quite possibly fraudulent actions of the assets founder, Usagi.

Payout = actually making good on contracts. It does not mean making up rules after a default to change how the record looks. Has every creditor who bought this insurance been paid in full for all losses as required by the conditions of sale? No.

My call on this asset and it's trusted financial adviser is stay as far away as possible. This is just another ploy by a pirate-loser looking to re-coup some coins for themselves. Which may explain why Goat is hanging around here sucking up too.
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September 15, 2012, 05:53:49 PM
 #124

Has every creditor who bought this insurance been paid in full for all losses as required by the conditions of sale? No.
Proof?
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September 16, 2012, 02:16:22 AM
 #125

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Wow, from oblivion to financial adviser in just three weeks!

Look at the big brain on young Atlas! Now offering insider trading advice for an asset that even the HBIC admits looks "scammy or shady". Is willing to offer forward looking statements (without the required disclaimer) about future events (without the legal format) promising returns (illegal) on unexplained events (sound just a bit like pirate yet?), and does this thinking the use of a couple of cute acronyms will lend credence to his "advice".

NVA = Net Asset Value. That's the core physical value of a share, based on actual current analysis. Not based on vague future plans.

Equilibrium = balance. The share price is nowhere near balanced, and the price has been dropped significantly due to the erratic and quite possibly fraudulent actions of the assets founder, Usagi.

Payout = actually making good on contracts. It does not mean making up rules after a default to change how the record looks. Has every creditor who bought this insurance been paid in full for all losses as required by the conditions of sale? No.

My call on this asset and it's trusted financial adviser is stay as far away as possible. This is just another ploy by a pirate-loser looking to re-coup some coins for themselves. Which may explain why Goat is hanging around here sucking up too.

QFT

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September 16, 2012, 03:16:08 AM
 #126

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Wow, from oblivion to financial adviser in just three weeks!

Look at the big brain on young Atlas! Now offering insider trading advice for an asset that even the HBIC admits looks "scammy or shady". Is willing to offer forward looking statements (without the required disclaimer) about future events (without the legal format) promising returns (illegal) on unexplained events (sound just a bit like pirate yet?), and does this thinking the use of a couple of cute acronyms will lend credence to his "advice".

NVA = Net Asset Value. That's the core physical value of a share, based on actual current analysis. Not based on vague future plans.

Equilibrium = balance. The share price is nowhere near balanced, and the price has been dropped significantly due to the erratic and quite possibly fraudulent actions of the assets founder, Usagi.

Payout = actually making good on contracts. It does not mean making up rules after a default to change how the record looks. Has every creditor who bought this insurance been paid in full for all losses as required by the conditions of sale? No.

My call on this asset and it's trusted financial adviser is stay as far away as possible. This is just another ploy by a pirate-loser looking to re-coup some coins for themselves. Which may explain why Goat is hanging around here sucking up too.

QFT

So, thought about streamlining your trades, lowering your account creation fee, updating your site design, or stopped being a troll? If yes, you are lying. If no, post tits or gtfo.

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September 16, 2012, 08:04:48 AM
 #127

I wonder if CPA would insure greyhounds against total loss  Smiley

The situation is that they get injured racing and then are unfit for breeding as well it becomes a total loss.


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September 22, 2012, 08:43:30 PM
 #128

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So, thought about streamlining your trades, lowering your account creation fee, updating your site design, or stopped being a troll? If yes, you are lying. If no, post tits or gtfo.

"Streamlining trades"? What's that?

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