post

[memvola]

B)  Insure others investing in pirate and invest their capital elsewhere and get (say) 5% per week with exact same risk of losing their capital AND an additional risk of losing DOUBLE their capital if 2nd investment gos south as well

The only thing more baffling to me than this is how others could think that the person who chose B) was a good choice to invest in (or to stay invested in).  

To be fair, hindsight is 20/20. These people told they were not investing in pirate, and they guaranteed the deposits. The main problem I see is that both the insured item and the backing were in the same risk zone.

I think a shareholders union is a good idea to at east offer some guidance and protect our interests. To me it seems that the "round table" were only in it to feather their own nests by accepting CPA funds which they basically embezzled.

I'm in.

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[Bitcoin Oz]

Whats the point of having shareholders if one person makes all the decisions ? There have been zero shareholder motions and we certainly never got to vote for this "board of directors" that embezzled company funds.

If you have a company board this is usually public and shareholders need to approve. What we have ended up with is an unapproved board making decisions without permission of shareholders in the company.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I think a shareholders union is a good idea to at east offer some guidance and protect our interests. To me it seems that the "round table" were only in it to feather their own nests by accepting CPA funds which they basically embezzled.

That's the second time you've said that. Why are you lying?

How would you even know? You're just talking shit like everyone else.

May I remind you I put 100 bitcoins of my own money into BMF to keep it afloat? That's my management style. Embezzle? Lol, here's my favorite quote so far:

All I can say is a lot of people are full of shit and their word is not worth the toilet paper its printed on.

Lying about what?

There have been no shareholder motions so any decisions are yours alone and no one voted for any board of directors.
Yes people claiming to offer "insured" deposits are full of shit and their word is worth nothing. Was this board of advisors in any way related to the ones who received CPA funds for "safekeeping" ? It appears they socially engineered you in that case.

[Francesco]

Where on earth are you getting your info? Probably the same place Goat gets his info we have no assets.

People -- relax.

We'll relax as soon as you provide the correct informations. Please stop posting and finish that "letter to shareholders"; until then this discussion is totally worthless since from what you said one could come to think almost anything, from "CPA will go on more or less well" to "CPA is dead tomorrow".

[DeaDTerra]

Letter to Shareholders for August 2012:

This month saw the fateful crash of CPA share price due to a number of factors. I will briefly touch upon these factors and share with you the future direction of CPA. As always, if you have questions or comments post them here, or email them to cpa@tsukino.ca.

1. Pirate Defaulted
Lo and behold, the inevitable happened. I had been advised by the round table to cut our pirate exposure. As a direct result of me listening to and taking the guidance of the people on the board, we cut 5,000 bitcoins worth of pirate contracts, leaving only one, 1000-bitcoin pirate contract. This was strategic. Our plan was to wait for default and then gain respect and credibility in the community by paying out on that contract.

2. Everyone we invested money in ended up making mistakes and losing all or part of our money.
Everyone except Patrick Harnett. Deadterra's Gamma Bitcoin Fund lost 25% of it's value (or more). Hashking's "guaranteed, insured" fund turned out to be in pirate (hope you're ready for that scammer tag HK). Imsaguy is having liquidity issues; he can probably pay us back and we are working with him on it. It's quite sad actually, that the only possible due dilligence we could have done turned out to be a lie. It's easy to say x y or z in hindsight, but hashking for example was a well-respected member of our community before this. No one can honestly say that this was an avoidable mistake; it wasn't just one lender but almost everyone.

3. We can (and will) pay out on all contracts.
First, YARR has been paid, and there is money sitting in the YARR account right now making bids at 1. Sell now and get your money, no one is going to pay 1.30 for your YARR shares, get over it. Two, we owe one more person about 600-700 bitcoins. We have over 1400 shares of NYAN we are trying to sell to raise the money and to back new contracts. Reports of our demise or lack of assets were pathetically misinformed; People were probably trying to panic you into selling on the cheap. I know some idiot sold over 1,000 shares to me at 0.02. Well done my man, you got manipulated. I have zero sympathy for people who do that, in spite of all the comments and assurances I have made over this issue.

4. CPA dividend estimate going forward
with 50,000 shares outstanding and a monthly income of 70+ bitcoins from premiums and investment income of around 5% monthly, we expect to pay a fat 10% dividend going forward (after the war chest gets filled) making CPA a screaming buy at 0.033. A big laugh goes out at the people who called for our untimely demise including and not limited to the people saying so in this thread. You trolls know jack and think you're important. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? I can tell you I am personally planning to buy 250 BTC worth of shares next week and I have personally bought 1500 bitcoins worth of CPA at 0.1. I believe in this company and it will succeed despite the ramblings of a couple of worthless internet trolls. I put that on the record.

5. Release of asset info/company policy/spreadsheets

Nahh, I don't think so. When we started YARR, the first, biggest and best (and highest paying) insured pirate passthru everyone took our books and started running their own version of it. Let's be honest, 4 people tried to copy us. We would have broken even on pirate premiums instead of losing about 500 bitcoins in this debacle, had we had more exclusive access to the market. If you think I have no good ideas fine, who cares right? OTOH if you want access to our books maybe you should apply for a job. We can use people for various things. We hired three different people as securities analysis for example, each one who failed miserably and horribly at simple tasks such as "Calculate the market cap for every issue on GLBSE". We also need advertising people. Otherwise there isn't a snowball's chance in hell you will guilt trip us into releasing what amnounts to corporate secrets. you think CPA is a scam? You think we don't know what we're doing? Go run your own insurance company. Setting aside money from your business is not insurance. It can't even compete. It's just some of your profits which are being with-held. Real insurance is capable of paying out 100 bitcoins on 5 bitcoins premium. Just ask Mollison. Psychoticboy. Kakobrekla. Ask them if we paid.

Remember, being able to pay, and to actually have paid in full, does not imply we are OUT of capital. It imples we have MORE capital because we didn't pay "most", we paid "all".

6. Future Direction

CPA will continue to make 10% a month on current NAV and we aim to spend the most effort expanding operations via Nyancat financial. We will continue to sign new contracts after the share sale this week. We have hotwallet as a pet project which has a currently profitable game running (dragon dice). We have a matchmaker service which is fully operational and running now, which is not on the books but which may be added later or spun out as dividend. We also have an online language school in the works with proven software and textbooks which have already been written which we can IPO and make a profit on immediately. There are a lot of ways forward for us. We are also aiming to change BMF's contract, which will be announced next in the BMF thread. BTW, regarding Nyancat Financial, you'll just have to wait a bit more for the weekly letter, the matthew situation demands a full explanation and I am waiting for news from Matthew.

7. My forum rep

Judge me if you want but when the dust settles, it's a real pity more people didn't sign contracts with CPA because we could have helped a lot of people. Most of the people who are attacking us have real sore asses one way or another form the pirate debacle. It's a pity they can't man up and admit they should have trusted CPA in the first place. We will continue paying out on contracts and doing our best and that is what I say counts in the end.

 ===

p.s. goat you brought yourself into this by making a lot of unfounded statements about me and CPA over a period of months... it isn't like we haven't had this chat before so I will cut it short; you don't trust me but you will trust some random idiot that doesn't know anything, you accuse me of running a scam and you turn around and try the same thing yourself (insured pirate) then you claim we have no assets and insinuate that you will invest with us if we did, then change your story to that of general mistrust. Then when pointed out that your position makes no sense since we paid out on everything as we promised (because we are an insurance company) you .... Oh well I said I would cut it short. If you want in to the round table goat you know what you need to do.

I want to state that GBF is not a guaranteed venture like the others on that list, I broke no agreement nor did I not deliver anything I didn't promise.
//DeaDterra

[556j]

Lol, you were bitching me out about being a scam 2 months ago and now you're at it again. Funny how each time you get proven wrong you seem to disappear for a while.

I don't feel the need to state the obvious over and over again. That would be the definition of a troll, but on these forums it seems like people think it's "someone that disagrees with me" It's just like how I trolled pirate, or Matthew on him not paying his bet, or BTC Guy selling hardware he didn't have. I'm starting to notice a pattern here, hmm. The only legit business I "troll" is bitinstant because I think they are unethical and sleazy.

Of course your scam is still afloat, you have how many securities, "hotwallets" and other sites supporting it? It's only a matter of time before it comes crumbling down, but I won't say I told you so, because I don't take pleasure rubbing shit in peoples nose. I do feel it's worth mentioning a couple times here and there to warn people though. That's exactly what I did. Don't worry I won't keep posting here either. I don't mean to shit up threads or get into internet arguments, but I stand by the accusation you are dishonest business man. With such a deep reach into bitcoin you'll be attending the bitcoin conference that's coming up correct?

[DeaDTerra]

I want to state that GBF is not a guaranteed venture like the others on that list, I broke no agreement nor did I not deliver anything I didn't promise.
//DeaDterra

That is true, you were actually the first one to pay us.

We would put more money in Gamma (and plan to buy the GLBSE issue with Nyan) but CPA is a little short of funds now ^^

Next week it's possible that we will have capital again; depends on how fast we can sell those NYAN shares.

If I absolutely have to

If I really need to

I will back-sell assets in A, B and C, buy back shares from NYAN, and have NYAN buy back shares from CPA itself.

Oh my god! I just had an amazing idea on how to pay back Kako TODAY!

Woohoo! CPA is now FREE of ALL liabilitles regarding pirate!

THANK YOU Deadterra.

If it wasn't for your post I wouldn't have thought of this!!!!!

No problems, I am just that boss!
//DeaDTerra

[Factory]

Usagi, please cover these points in detail. None of these are meant to troll, and none of these have been properly covered in the thread so far. These are simple and clear points related directly to the operations of CPA.

1. Pirate Defaulted
Lo and behold, the inevitable happened.

How did you apply standard methods of actual science in order to determine proper exposure and calculate the risks of a 'black box' and totally non transparent venture? By traditional means, doing such a task properly impossible.

2. Everyone we invested money in ended up making mistakes and losing all or part of our money.
Everyone except Patrick Harnett.

While most of the lendees failed to return invested capital, are you really claiming that your personal choice to use those lenders was not an error in judgement? Please elaborate how you, as the head of CPA, is not accountable for that decision.

It's quite sad actually, that the only possible due dilligence we could have done turned out to be a lie.

If there is only an extremely limited amount of due diligence you can perform on ways to invest the float of CPA, how can you form sound and logical choices in regards to such activity? By operating whilst knowing you could only perform limited due diligence, weren't the events that have unfolded clearly seen as a possibility? If an insurance company can't analyze and weigh all risks regarding (a variable) and then consciously operates their business in a fashion in which is highly dependent on their choice of (a variable), that is a clear act of negligence. In this case, you allowed CPA to weigh in the hands of investments you admittedly could not perform due diligence on? Please elaborate how you, as the head of CPA, is not accountable for that decision.

I have personally bought 1500 bitcoins worth of CPA at 0.1.

It saddens me that someone would say this like it's a good thing.

While there are no rules against it (as btc is not regulated at all), this is on all accounts unethical. You hold a fiduciary capacity to shareholders and this (if nothing else) should raise eyebrows.

1. You announced major problems with CPA (without providing a clear and full picture.) Stated it has lost 40% minimum of it's value.
2. Share price tanks.
3. You  purchase those shares when they know far more than everyone else in regards to what is going on and stands to make a profit (if you are correct that CPA is not in trouble and has good days ahead.)

If you would have done a buyback with CPA funds to buy drastically under priced shares, you would have been fulfilling your fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. Making the conscious choice to buy them for personal profit instead- disclosed after the fact especially- is a clear major breach of trust. In the real world, you would likely catch hellfire, be forced to resign from the company, and face legal consequences. While of course that won't happen here, this illustrates acting in an unethical capacity. There is no grey area in this matter: you made an egregious choice to put yourself before shareholders.

5. Release of asset info/company policy/spreadsheets
Nahh, I don't think so.

You can not get upset at people being highly skeptic of CPA if you do not provide us the information in order to due full due diligence. Plain and simple. You can choose to not agree with us, but to try to discredit us as 'trolls' is disingenuous.

Please also respond fully to this excellent point, which was first raised by memlova and elaborated upon by Deprived:

It just baffles me how someone could actually look at two options:

A)  Invest in pirate pass-through and get (say) 6% per week with risk of losing their capital if pirate defaults,
B)  Insure others investing in pirate and invest their capital elsewhere and get (say) 5% per week with exact same risk of losing their capital AND an additional risk of losing DOUBLE their capital if 2nd investment gos south as well
And come to the conclusion that B) was the better option.  What conceivable thought-process could reach that choice?

I have never said that CPA is a scam, just severely mismanaged. These points illustrate that quite clearly.

[Factory]

I have never said that CPA is a scam, just severely mismanaged. These points illustrate that quite clearly.

Fine. Now that you've said your peace, as you're not an investor here, there's no more reason for you to post here.

I know I didn't respond to you directly in this post but I believe the last several PMs we exchanged made my position perfectly clear.

You addressing all of the points I made in my previous post is not for my gain. If you fully address them, it will likely help investors and potential investors understand how CPA functions.

Your PMs to me covered very few of the points I made in my last post. It would likely do for more good for you to address them than to dodge them.

[bitcoinbear]

I am now a shareholder!    Looks like this discussion has been bad for the share price, somebody filled my lowball order.

[Bitcoin Oz]

it's basically come down to, if the last 2 people I invested money with can't pay back, there will be no way to hide or avoid the losses, and CPA's net value will go to zero.

You posted stuff like this then when the share price takes a dump you admit buying all the cheap shares for your personal holdings ?

I dont know what to say....

[Deprived]

The whole situation looks a mess largely because of all the various inter-twined enterprises being run by the same individual.

example:

BMF is insured by CPA.  Here's the full text of the policy (call me paranoid - but I don't want no record of it after I've posted) other than the dispute resolution (which is standard - and irrelevant given it's the same party on both ends of the contract):

"A. NAV Insurance Contract
1. BMF ("the customer") will be indemnified (by CPA) against loss defined
   as a NAV (Net Asset Value) of less than 1 per unit.
2. CPA will not be liable for loss greater than 500 bitcoins.
3. Multiple indemnification payments are allowed so far as the total amount
   does not exceed 500 bitcoins.
4. Neither party may cancel this contract although any party may choose to
   accelerate their obligation at any time.
5. All payments by either party must be tagged with .000012 to show that
   they belong to CPA Contract #12. Ex. a payment of 95 btc would be sent
   as 95.000012.

B. Payment of Premium
1. BMF will send 5 bitcoins per calendar week for 110 weeks to CPA at
   [1EGXZ8kPwEeomiepZwwZayZYdH5nQTkc1f] ("CPA Marked Deposit Address").
2. Any and all payments of 5 bitcoins sent to this address will satisfy
   BMF's obligation in this regard.
3. Payments made late (after the insured period begins) will be assigned
   a late fee of 10%.
4. Multiple payments may be sent at the same time provided the marker is
   not changed (i.e. 10.000012 for two weeks, 15.000012 for three weeks).

C. Indemnification
1. From time to time (and/or at the bequest of BMF), CPA will monitor
   BMF's NAV (Net Asset Value).
2. At that time, should BMF's NAV be less than one, CPA will transfer
   100 bitcoins to BMF at address [1N9xQivX5yEYXafjJfeQYtSiq1iT6h9sek]
   ("BMF Marked Deposit Address")."

BMF has just reported it's NAV at 0.57 - but has not signalled any intent to claim under this policy.  A policy which is shoddy - to say the least.

Total liabilty for CPA is 500 BTC - but each individual claim is limited to being 100 BTC.  Multiple claims are allowed yet there's NO MENTION of the cooling-down period (or other criteria) to allow a second claim after a first has been settled.  The sole criteria for paying out is that NAV is below 1 - making the 100 BTC per claim restriction totally pointless as a second claim can immediately be lodged to get another 100 BTC.

WIll there be an insurance claim?  Seems at the moment the insurance policy has been forgotten and the "plan" for BMF is to become a mining company rather than just invest in others.  So why buy the insurance?  To help prop up CPA?

There's also no mention in the contract of what happens if the full 500 BTC is paid out.  Do all future payments end?  Or is BMF obliged to continue paying 5 bTC per week for the remainder of the 110 weeks - despite having no further cover?  If the latter is the case then it's hardly insurance where the total fees for cover over the duration of a single contract exceed the total amount which can be claimed (it's an option for a bailout loan at a low rate of interest).  If the former is the case then charging a 1% premium for cover per week to a company that has just recovered from an earlier drop in nav seems 'generous' at best.

There's other interactions between the various entities run by usagi which look far more like them propping one another up (at the expense of their own share-holders) than indiviudal companies each being run in the interest of their owners. 

e.g.  nyan.a and nyan.b have both currently got 100 BTC loans to nyan.c.  nyan.a supposoedly only invests in low-risk things (a bit like BMF - mainly invetsing in mining shares that have little risk of achieveing anything other than losing NAV faster than dividends can pay for it).  Is nyan.c low risk?  By usagi's own definition (and its catastrophic performance) it's explicitly high-risk.

All this web of comapnies does is obfuscate what's really happening with funds - allow funds to be traded between them so as to prop one another up (on paper, at least).  CPA owns nyan (though is trying to sell it) which is the main investor in nyan.a, nyan,b and nyan.c.  nyan.b, strangely, also has an invetsment in CPA (from book value would guess this is the shares usagi picked up cheap).  none of the nyan's generate any management fee - CPA's profit (lol) from them comes from their own investment in them via nyan.  So if nyan.b is owned by CPA but holds CPA shares we have a nice little circle-jerk which achieves nothing other than increasing apparent liquidity/value of both.

And if usagi sells off CPA's nyan shares then usagi ends up running nyan.a,b and c without any management fee and with no profit from them going to CPA (unless they take out insurance of course).

I'm not accusing usagi of trying to defraud anyone - I don't actually believe he/she is.  I just think they're in way over their head and trying to cover up the mess.  Plus there's shocking insurance policies being written (see above plus the pirate-related ones) - I assume because CPA needs to issue SOME insurance policies to continue to pretend they're an insurance company (what % of current assets are actually backing policies as opposed to being spunked away in mining-bonds, obsi's ponzi or whatever?)

There's one or two real shockers of investments by some of the nyans as well - but here's not the place to discuss that.

[556j]

If I have to I will lock the thread and post a new one with local rules about post count and shareholder eligibility. I'd rather keep going with this one. Or do you want me to create a locked announcements thread? It's your choice.

You should make an IRC channel and have your most trusted shills as OPs. You already have a bet going just like our old buddy might as well copy him exactly. Then finally a public appearance to boost confidence before the house of cards tumbles. But I don't think you could do that because Nefario will notice the person doesn't match the fake ID you provided him.

I mean attacking people based on post account. Calling everyone names. Going though my posts from over 8 months ago to find my quote calling myself a noob because I posted about a topic that was already addressed. Feeling the need to pubically point out you ignored me rather than just actually ignoring me, you must be getting desperate.

[Atlas]

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.

[bitcoinbear]

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.

Atlas is trying to pump and dump CPA. I've seen this message many times from random email addresses "Quick, check out penny stock XYZ, which experts call undervalued! The price is about to jump, buy now!"

Atlas, please keep crap like that out of our forum.

[Atlas]

I've talked to Usagi and it seems CPA is generating a sizeable income. She appears to be well-invested in it and her confidence is sincere.

I will say CPA is a bit undervalued at the moment.

Atlas is trying to pump and dump CPA. I've seen this message many times from random email addresses "Quick, check out penny stock XYZ, which experts call undervalued! The price is about to jump, buy now!"

Atlas, please keep crap like that out of our forum.

I can't say I am that much of a gambler. I only invested in CPA because I believe their insurance contracts and their future payouts are worth more than .03 BTC a share.

I have an exit strategy but it certainly isn't pump and dump.

[guruvan]

The whole situation looks a mess largely because of all the various inter-twined enterprises being run by the same individual.

Oh really?

There's also no mention in the contract of what happens if the full 500 BTC is paid out.  Do all future payments end?

This line, as well as quoting the entire contract when all you needed to do was post a link, prove only two things:

1. You don't understand the contract I wrote,

2. You are new here (Jesus, 58 posts?)

Dude, you just got out of the newbies' forum. Seriously, fuck off. You don't even understand the contract. Hang out a little more before you start attacking people.

This contract was announced, publicized, and voted on over a month ago. Where were you then? Exactly.

Go read the contract again and stop posting on my thread pls. You clearly a) are not a shareholder b) are very confused and I really don't have time to sit here and answer a bunch of questions from people who aren't going to invest anyway and are only here to troll.

If I have to I will lock the thread and post a new one with local rules about post count and shareholder eligibility. I'd rather keep going with this one. Or do you want me to create a locked announcements thread? It's your choice.

Now if you have a legitimate question, ask. If you are just spreading bullshit, go away or I'll just lock the thread. We have a FAQ, did you know that? Did you go to our website and read it? Probably not.

There's other interactions between the various entities run by usagi which look far more like them propping one another up (at the expense of their own share-holders) than indiviudal companies each being run in the interest of their owners. 

e.g.  nyan.a and nyan.b have both currently got 100 BTC loans to nyan.c.  nyan.a supposoedly only invests in low-risk things (a bit like BMF - mainly invetsing in mining shares that have little risk of achieveing anything other than losing NAV faster than dividends can pay for it).  Is nyan.c low risk?  By usagi's own definition (and its catastrophic performance) it's explicitly high-risk.

Hahahahaha, you REALLY don't know what you are talking about. Just go away for a while and think before you post here again. This is painful. I'm not going to re-explain NYAN for you. Go read the contract and the weekly letters to shareholders I have been publishing for the last month. Jeez, some people.. lol

You are deceitful, insulting, and dodge most serious questions, usually with insults. I can't really believe anyone still holds these shares. Quite frankly, I think you're running a multi-headed scam, in the guise of intertwined companies relying on each other (with you double-dealing at the helm) - but most will see it a you "becoming insolvent" )

(BTW, this has been my position since you opened CPA, and has only grown with your increased number of "ventures" schemes to acquire investors' capital. It has not, and will not change, much like your insulting, offensive behavior.

Please don't bother to respond. Save your insults for someone with thinner skin. Jesus. only 585 posts and acting like a total prick already? I thought that was for Hero members & staff only.

[Monster Tent]

I dont think glbse can handle many more defaults after the latest pirate debacle. I really hope CPA or NYAN is not the next one to crumble and you can recover the company.

[Atlas]

CPA has reached an equilibrium since the recent defaults due to Usagi proving she has more than enough assets to cover payouts. It is currently selling well-above NAV due to dividends and other future events. The bids are slowly building up.

Just an FYI to anyone who has been scared off recently.

[bitcoinbear]

CPA has reached an equilibrium since the recent defaults due to Usagi proving she has more than enough assets to cover payouts. It is currently selling well-above NAV due to dividends and other future events. The bids are slowly building up.

Just an FYI to anyone who has been scared off recently.

If it is selling above the NAV, then now is a good time to sell. Atlas is saying "SELL SELL SELL!"