BITMAIN announces Antpool

[TTravis]

Sometimes I wonder if it is just pure bad or good luck or if there is a problem somewhere that can contribute to bad luck.  It would be nice to know when there is a problem.  I sent them a wakeup call just to be nice and make sure they were not asleep at the switch.  Seems to have worked!

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is math, plain and simple.  We've had great luck for a bit, now we have bad luck for a bit.  At the end of the day, it literally all balances out.

Except when it's not.....  Like fire, bad internet connection, DDOS attack, technical difficulties, etc.  All I'm saying is that a little status update from AntPool would be appreciated.

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[TracerX]

Sometimes I wonder if it is just pure bad or good luck or if there is a problem somewhere that can contribute to bad luck.  It would be nice to know when there is a problem.  I sent them a wakeup call just to be nice and make sure they were not asleep at the switch.  Seems to have worked!

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is math, plain and simple.  We've had great luck for a bit, now we have bad luck for a bit.  At the end of the day, it literally all balances out.

Except when it's not.....  Like fire, bad internet connection, DDOS attack, technical difficulties, etc.  All I'm saying is that a little status update from AntPool would be appreciated.

If you're submitting shares via stratum at the approximate expected rate, it's safe to say there isn't a building on fire.  DDOS attacks, bad net connections and other issues cause disconnects, which you should mitigate by have fail-over pools. If you are submitting shares, you should be good.

I recognize that there are cases that this may not hold true, but those cases have been historically rare.  What is not rare is normal variance in pool luck--it's just the mathematical nature of the business.  I would suggest anyone hoping for updates from pools about bad luck instead spend their time reading up on the protocols as described on the Bitcoin wiki.

Edit: I'm not trying to sound like a dick, and I apologize in advance if this comes off that way.  Just trying to spread the gospel of math.

[TTravis]

I woke up this morning and decided to check the status of my AntMiner S4.  It showed 10 found blocks.  NFW!  All of my other AntMiners, S3's and S5's all show 0 FoundBlocks.

Does that mean that if I were solo mining, it would have found 10 blocks and I would have earned 250 bitcoins?

If this is the case, I'm switching to solo mining.  What are the settings I need to put in there for AntPool solo mining?



Elapsed        GH/S(5s)    GH/S(avg)        FoundBlocks    LocalWork      Utility    WU                BestShare
                     
9d8h15m54s  2,402.38       1,953.78       10                 466,548,240     5.99          27,293.96     179367
   

[kano]

2 things:

1) You didn't find bitcoin blocks.
They would either be bitmain code bugs or altcoin blocks, if you had a pool back up of an evil altcoin.

2) The hash that finds a block, will not find it somewhere else.
Every hash you do MUST be different to every other one you would do on any other pool/solo
Otherwise you would be duplicating work (or mining to a faulty pool)
The technical details make it obvious - you are hashing different information.

Your question is not all that different to:
If I go to Caesars Palace and win a $1000 bet on black 17 on the roulette wheel, would it have won at the Monte Carlo if I bet black 17 at the same time?

[aarons6]

I woke up this morning and decided to check the status of my AntMiner S4.  It showed 10 found blocks.  NFW!  All of my other AntMiners, S3's and S5's all show 0 FoundBlocks.

Does that mean that if I were solo mining, it would have found 10 blocks and I would have earned 250 bitcoins?

If this is the case, I'm switching to solo mining.  What are the settings I need to put in there for AntPool solo mining?



Elapsed        GH/S(5s)    GH/S(avg)        FoundBlocks    LocalWork      Utility    WU                BestShare
                     
9d8h15m54s  2,402.38       1,953.78       10                 466,548,240     5.99          27,293.96     179367
   

since antpool doesnt show your best share, and you have one, and its too low to be a bitcoin block im guessing you have westhash/nicehash as your main pool with a high p= value and it switched to it sometime in the 9 days and found a few low diff altcoin blocks..

[dog1965]

I woke up this morning and decided to check the status of my AntMiner S4.  It showed 10 found blocks.  NFW!  All of my other AntMiners, S3's and S5's all show 0 FoundBlocks.

Does that mean that if I were solo mining, it would have found 10 blocks and I would have earned 250 bitcoins?

If this is the case, I'm switching to solo mining.  What are the settings I need to put in there for AntPool solo mining?



Elapsed        GH/S(5s)    GH/S(avg)        FoundBlocks    LocalWork      Utility    WU                BestShare
                     
9d8h15m54s  2,402.38       1,953.78       10                 466,548,240     5.99          27,293.96     179367
   

since antpool doesnt show your best share, and you have one, and its too low to be a bitcoin block im guessing you have westhash/nicehash as your main pool with a high p= value and it switched to it sometime in the 9 days and found a few low diff altcoin blocks..

Which you don't get paid for anyway. that's why WESTHASH S*CkS !


The have a good payout rate yes, but you are mining altcoins for there greedy pockets.

[kano]

altcoins add up to ... pretty much nothing.

I've no idea why pools have altcoin equivalents of bitcoind running on their pool servers.
They make hardly anything and can cause all sorts of problems ... that most people don't even see

[dogie]

A run of 10 blocks, 70% of the network.
You better hope they don't keep doing that ...

Is there a reason other than the 50% attack theory?

'Theory' ... lol

I called it a theory because it requires one of the largest companies in bitcoin to either attempt to destroy bitcoin [or to be horrendously hacked] which doesn't seem likely. They'd stand to lose probably $XXX,XXX,XXX if they tried a 50%, to gain what?

No, the 51% attack isn't just an attack by evil empires. Of course it can even happen below 51%, but once a pool hash rate gets high enough it will automatically be able to overlord the block chain. There is advantage in being a higher hash rate, that people wont obviously notice. Bitmain has proven their lack of giving a crap about the bitcoin community and lying (either by design or by stupidity) about what they have done. Continued

Only just found this post but I feel its important to respond.

Their p2pool project was simply a centralised p2pool that they tried to garner interest in by falsely claiming it was decentralised.

"P2Pool" was a terrible translation issue which led to incorrect claims. AntPool was never meant to join onto the original P2Pool network but was designed to decentralise pools. Bitmain spent $100,000s of man hours developing the open source pool software in the hope that others would host their own pools and break the network down into smaller chunks. That never happened, partially because of the technical difficulty in running a pool, the risk in holding miners' funds and because people want the biggest pool. Nothing about AntPool or its intentions is malicious and neither is open sourcing pool software.

Bitmain has proven their lack of giving a crap about the bitcoin community and lying (either by design or by stupidity) about what they have done. Their recent statement that expending anything on support of S1/S2/S3 is a waste of money even though they are the basis by which they became one of the largest companies in bitcoin and most of that hardware is still out there - a lot of it not even 12 months old.

The oldest S2s are now 440 days old, S3s 349 days old and S4s are 263 days old [410, 319, 233 at the time of his post]. At some point you have to draw the line, as does every other software company. For example, do you support users running cgminer 3.x, or do you tell them to update to the latest version?

Their pool was creating empty blocks that are bad for bitcoin and I pointed that out last year and again this year ... no response about having fixed that anywhere ...

Yes it was a bad thing.

They ignored the GPLv3 license with cgminer on multiple accounts and gave internal processes being slow as their crappy excuse for violating the license in all cases when they finally did release the cgminer driver code. They ignored the GPLv3 for over a year regarding the SPI kernel driver and have only recently released that.

So they did release the drivers, where is the malicious intent there? If they wanted to "screw the community" they'd have said "no" and never posted a thing.

[sarcasm]Yeah they have a really good track record there - of course they wouldn't do anything untoward[/sarcasm]

The examples you've provided demonstrate no malicious intent nor willingness to do evil. On top of that you've still not explained why a company with probably the most vested financial interest in the world in Bitcoin succeeding would actively try and destroy Bitcoin. Its like claiming someone will burn down their own house just to wake you up at night. It doesn't make sense.

[kano]

...
Only just found this post but I feel its important to respond.
...

What you just woke up?

Their p2pool project was simply a centralised p2pool that they tried to garner interest in by falsely claiming it was decentralised.

... blah blah blah ...

I'm still wondering what is incorrect in what I said?

Bitmain has proven their lack of giving a crap about the bitcoin community and lying (either by design or by stupidity) about what they have done. Their recent statement that expending anything on support of S1/S2/S3 is a waste of money even though they are the basis by which they became one of the largest companies in bitcoin and most of that hardware is still out there - a lot of it not even 12 months old.

The oldest S2s are now 440 days old, S3s 349 days old and S4s are 263 days old [410, 319, 233 at the time of his post]. At some point you have to draw the line, as does every other software company. For example, do you support users running cgminer 3.x, or do you tell them to update to the latest version?

Yes I do tell people to update to the latest cgminer ... and it's free to update ... and it's better free software than the older version.
I have no fucking idea where you think that is related to telling people to spends hundreds of dollars to buy new miners from Bitmain.
If they didn't put you up to making this post, they really should get rid of you.

The 'oldest' - lol
Who cares what the 'oldest' is.
When did they sell the last ones?

... and subtract 42 days that I wrote that post ago ...
Yeah subtraction is tricky isn't it ... 15-Jun back to 4-May ... sounds like 42 not 30 ...

Their pool was creating empty blocks that are bad for bitcoin and I pointed that out last year and again this year ... no response about having fixed that anywhere ...

Yes it was a bad thing.

Do you actually even understand what I was talking about?

1 day 2 hours ago:
https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/block/00000000000000000ac32c17a9ada0a79f0449681a7e8f3e2be6696b1b5d09d3

They ignored the GPLv3 license with cgminer on multiple accounts and gave internal processes being slow as their crappy excuse for violating the license in all cases when they finally did release the cgminer driver code. They ignored the GPLv3 for over a year regarding the SPI kernel driver and have only recently released that.

So they did release the drivers, where is the malicious intent there? If they wanted to "screw the community" they'd have said "no" and never posted a thing.

You seem to want me to repeat it .. ok ...

The fact that they ignored the license until pressured to abide by it ... until they needed to for their own gain.
I don't know what moronic world you live in, but in my world, a company that ignores doing what they are supposed to do until a long time later being pressured to do so, that repeated action falls directly under what I called - a bad track record.

... and it's even obvious why they did ...

They are no longer making high profit per item on the community - they've had to regularly reduce their profit margin, and most people have finally realised after a very long time that they lose BTC by buying Bitmain hardware - mainly due to the fact that the loss is now so obvious where as before required a bit of thought to see it.
So now most of their income is marginal on selling even cheaper again to businesses ... or maybe also selling cheap in china? Not sure about their china business.

So what is the pressure?
Simple - their profits are heading down and they are trying to find a way to catch interest ... even though it will fail ... it's too late.

... and getting a paid employee to fail at making a case for them ... oops

[sarcasm]Yeah they have a really good track record there - of course they wouldn't do anything untoward[/sarcasm]

The examples you've provided demonstrate no malicious intent nor willingness to do evil. On top of that you've still not explained why a company with probably the most vested financial interest in the world in Bitcoin succeeding would actively try and destroy Bitcoin. Its like claiming someone will burn down their own house just to wake you up at night. It doesn't make sense.

Well I guess you just assume everyone is an idiot and can't see the obvious and will listen to your post lacking anything of relevance.

They didn't need to care about such things before simply because they made so much profit making hardware.

[dogie]

Kano, again you're looking for a fight rather than a discussion and I won't indulge that. You can believe whatever you want.

[dog1965]

Kano, again you're looking for a fight rather than a discussion and I won't indulge that. You can believe whatever you want.

BS. You mean you can't, because you're wrong. Again.

If you're unable to substantiate your posts, don't post them 

And what give up all the profit he makes from bitmain and other company's from BULL***TING you no way.

[Fatman3001]

Yes, Dogie gets paid by Bitmain to help with support (as he frequently informs people of). Yes, Bitmain tries to make money. Yes, Bitmain clearly jumped straight into the deep end.

And how does kano try to contribute?

By flinging shit.



How about subtracting a little bit of asshole and see where it gets you?

There are some legitimate issues in here but your unique ability to cover them in shit makes it highly unlikely that we'll ever get some clarity in these regards.

[Nubminer]

why are antpool payments not working.. and with as many different services that you have..
Why cant you make a Withdraw button. it seems only logical that there should be one.. instead of 24 hours potential of getting a payment and then ... excuses on why this did not happen

[kano]

Yes, Dogie gets paid by Bitmain to help with support (as he frequently informs people of). Yes, Bitmain tries to make money. Yes, Bitmain clearly jumped straight into the deep end.

And how does kano try to contribute?

By flinging shit.

http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

How about subtracting a little bit of asshole and see where it gets you?

There are some legitimate issues in here but your unique ability to cover them in shit makes it highly unlikely that we'll ever get some clarity in these regards.

Your welcome
If my post of information and complaint is called flinging shit, yours is nothing but diarrhoea.

The P2Pool comment is as I said - feel free to point out how it is incorrect.

I'm the one who has been lobbying bitmain the most to get them to release GPL software they should have.
Oddly enough because ... it was -ck's and my cgminer that they didn't bother to release the code within the terms of our license agreement.
For each of the S1/S2/S3, it has been outside the license requirements when they finally did release it (no Idea about S4/C1/S5 - look it up yourself)
Obviously when I've had to deal with a company that has not adhered to the license agreement terms, in the software we provided, but rather decided their own terms in violation of the license, I'm not going to be painting a rosy picture of them.
I often deal with Bitmain directly, as they have directly with me, I know their names, emails, skypes (and no I won't be sharing any of that information)
They've even paid for 3 of my 7 Bitmain miners and sent them to me.
i.e. I'm not posting random comments, I've dealt with them directly.

Once the S1 code was finally available, I reformatted and recoded it into a proper cgminer driver without various problem they introduced in their version (as also with S2 and finally recently with S3 - all of them in the master cgminer git)
They have still, to this day, ignored those fixes first in the S1 code in the public cgminer git since March last year

I have been asking them multiple times, directly, for a long time, to release the SPI driver code, which they should have released with each miner, that's in all their miners.
They even have replied to me once in the past that they would, but then didn't ...
... that they finally did a few months ago in response to someone else

[dog1965]

Yes, Dogie gets paid by Bitmain to help with support (as he frequently informs people of). Yes, Bitmain tries to make money. Yes, Bitmain clearly jumped straight into the deep end.

And how does kano try to contribute?

By flinging shit.

http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

How about subtracting a little bit of asshole and see where it gets you?

There are some legitimate issues in here but your unique ability to cover them in shit makes it highly unlikely that we'll ever get some clarity in these regards.

Your welcome
If my post of information and complaint is called flinging shit, yours is nothing but diarrhoea.

The P2Pool comment is as I said - feel free to point out how it is incorrect.

I'm the one who has been lobbying bitmain the most to get them to release GPL software they should have.
Oddly enough because ... it was -ck's and my cgminer that they didn't bother to release the code within the terms of our license agreement.
For each of the S1/S2/S3, it has been outside the license requirements when they finally did release it (no Idea about S4/C1/S5 - look it up yourself)
Obviously when I've had to deal with a company that has not adhered to the license agreement terms, in the software we provided, but rather decided their own terms in violation of the license, I'm not going to be painting a rosy picture of them.
I often deal with Bitmain directly, as they have directly with me, I know their names, emails, skypes (and no I won't be sharing any of that information)
They've even paid for 3 of my 7 Bitmain miners and sent them to me.
i.e. I'm not posting random comments, I've dealt with them directly.

Once the S1 code was finally available, I reformatted and recoded it into a proper cgminer driver without various problem they introduced in their version (as also with S2 and finally recently with S3 - all of them in the master cgminer git)
They have still, to this day, ignored those fixes first in the S1 code in the public cgminer git since March last year

I have been asking them multiple times, directly, for a long time, to release the SPI driver code, which they should have released with each miner, that's in all their miners.
They even have replied to me once in the past that they would, but then didn't ...
... that they finally did a few months ago in response to someone else

Keep up the good work you and CK are the best.

[Fatman3001]

Yes, Dogie gets paid by Bitmain to help with support (as he frequently informs people of). Yes, Bitmain tries to make money. Yes, Bitmain clearly jumped straight into the deep end.

And how does kano try to contribute?

By flinging shit.

http://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

How about subtracting a little bit of asshole and see where it gets you?

There are some legitimate issues in here but your unique ability to cover them in shit makes it highly unlikely that we'll ever get some clarity in these regards.

Your welcome
If my post of information and complaint is called flinging shit, yours is nothing but diarrhoea.

The P2Pool comment is as I said - feel free to point out how it is incorrect.

I'm the one who has been lobbying bitmain the most to get them to release GPL software they should have.
Oddly enough because ... it was -ck's and my cgminer that they didn't bother to release the code within the terms of our license agreement.
For each of the S1/S2/S3, it has been outside the license requirements when they finally did release it (no Idea about S4/C1/S5 - look it up yourself)
Obviously when I've had to deal with a company that has not adhered to the license agreement terms, in the software we provided, but rather decided their own terms in violation of the license, I'm not going to be painting a rosy picture of them.
I often deal with Bitmain directly, as they have directly with me, I know their names, emails, skypes (and no I won't be sharing any of that information)
They've even paid for 3 of my 7 Bitmain miners and sent them to me.
i.e. I'm not posting random comments, I've dealt with them directly.

Once the S1 code was finally available, I reformatted and recoded it into a proper cgminer driver without various problem they introduced in their version (as also with S2 and finally recently with S3 - all of them in the master cgminer git)
They have still, to this day, ignored those fixes first in the S1 code in the public cgminer git since March last year

I have been asking them multiple times, directly, for a long time, to release the SPI driver code, which they should have released with each miner, that's in all their miners.
They even have replied to me once in the past that they would, but then didn't ...
... that they finally did a few months ago in response to someone else

Good work! Well done!

They've accomplished a lot in the last couple of years, but much of it has obviously been rushed and is characterized by lack of experience.

I hope they get their act together.

BTW: That was the right amount off asshole. It's like saffron, you just need a smidgen.

[tokingtoking]

increasing hashing power, decreasing payout.
why? i dont know, maybe just bad luck.

[hurricandave]

increasing hashing power, decreasing payout.
why? i dont know, maybe just bad luck.

When the pools hash power increases and yours stays the same, then you contributed a smaller slice of the pie because the pie ain't gettin' any bigger.
To keep up with the Jones's, You, gotta keep up with the Jones's.

[kano]

increasing hashing power, decreasing payout.
why? i dont know, maybe just bad luck.

When the pools hash power increases and yours stays the same, then you contributed a smaller slice of the pie because the pie ain't gettin' any bigger.
To keep up with the Jones's, You, gotta keep up with the Jones's.

No.
If the pool hash rate goes up, so does it's expected block finding rate.
The effects on your expected payouts are luck (non PPS) and network difficulty.

[Mike0029]

I figured I could join in on this discussion... what are people's thoughts on this?

https://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/1832?page=1

I slowly got into mining, based on interest in Bitmain ASICs, even tried out their cloud mining at Hashnest, but realized that it is almost a Ponzi scheme, especially when I lost about half my investment with their New Year's "gift" (which isn't much considering I know others who lost much more there with this stunt they pulled):

https://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/983

Thanks to Bitmain being shady, I am completely out of mining, as it seems they like to control the market:

https://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/1829

I have a feeling that this is the "centralization" of a decentralized currency.... Considering they manufacture the ASICs, and can plug as many as they want, and you KNOW they will announce the Antminer S50+ with 10 PH power in just a month (sarcasm), even though they still have a good inventory of their last model that they haven't sold... and they will probably sell too...

just like their PACMiC scheme:

https://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/1823

What also scares me, is that most Bitcoin nodes are US based, yet the biggest ASIC manufacturers and pools are Chinese based...