Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker

[revans]

Your naivety is amusing.

A basic i7 based box could easily handle thousands of transactions a second with sub 100ms lag; yet we are to believe that all these exchanges are running some relic 386 box running Windows 3.1. The exchanges are not there to serve the Bitcoin community, they are there to engage in price manipulation (likely collusive in nature) for their own gain. When they cannot move price action in a direction favourable to them they cry DDOS to allow them to pull the rug from under their customers and scalp some easy money that way.

Wow, you are an idiot, your idiocy is amusing, you have absolutely no idea what I said. You seem to think I am excusing the exchanges for being utterly incompetent? Perhaps I think that the exchanges are completely innocent and do not engage in price manipulation? You are a complete idiot and I suggest you STFU and stop putting words in my mouth. I merely mentioned DDoSes and I didn't even mention DDoSes at GOX. Are exchanges getting DDOS'ed? YES. Are they also utterly incompetent and operating below capacity? You can bet your britches they are. Did I say they aren't? No. Did you assume I did? Yes.

THIS IS A FREE MARKET AND INCENTIVE MECHANISMS ARE AT WORK. MTGOX MAKES MONEY DURING PANIC SELLS. OF COURSE they have a massive incentive to continue operating below capacity and causing massive panic sells. They make more money that way.
The only incentive they have to operate at or above capacity is to the extent that people will leave mtgox for better-performing exchanges, and this is simply not happening.

Again, you are an idiot, in this case I agree with you 100% regarding the incentive mechanisms at play here, yet you made assumptions and put words in my mouth. So I had to take you down a notch   dumbass.

You retort is worth its weight in bitcoins

You clearly think there is some DDOS activity going on, and yet there is no independent evidence of this. It seems rather convenient that these DDOS events did not strike when Bitcoin was soaring, and yet seem epidemic now that the exchanges are having difficulty reinflating the bubble.

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[aop]

Wow, so Gox is down again due to trading volume, BitFloor is on and off all day due to constant DDoS, and nearly all the other major exchanges are equally spotty due to either DDoS or volume.

But we're STILL holding in the $70-80 range!

Go bitcoin! Lol. Any other day and this behavior would cause panic sells en masse, but I think now people are finally desensitized to the shitty exchange infrastructure.

I can imagine the DDoS attacks are from both the 'powers that be' and from speculators who want to buy cheap coinz before it goes back up. Because there is some serious DDoS action going on, multiple exchanges, fun to watch.

Your naivety is amusing.

A basic i7 based box could easily handle thousands of transactions a second with sub 100ms lag; yet we are to believe that all these exchanges are running some relic 386 box running Windows 3.1. The exchanges are not there to serve the Bitcoin community, they are there to engage in price manipulation (likely collusive in nature) for their own gain. When they cannot move price action in a direction favourable to them they cry DDOS to allow them to pull the rug from under their customers and scalp some easy money that way.

This. The higher they manage to keep the price and volume the more they make money by skimming from the top.

[Wuji]

Your naivety is amusing.

A basic i7 based box could easily handle thousands of transactions a second with sub 100ms lag; yet we are to believe that all these exchanges are running some relic 386 box running Windows 3.1. The exchanges are not there to serve the Bitcoin community, they are there to engage in price manipulation (likely collusive in nature) for their own gain. When they cannot move price action in a direction favourable to them they cry DDOS to allow them to pull the rug from under their customers and scalp some easy money that way.

Wow, you are an idiot, your idiocy is amusing, you have absolutely no idea what I said. You seem to think I am excusing the exchanges for being utterly incompetent? Perhaps I think that the exchanges are completely innocent and do not engage in price manipulation? You are a complete idiot and I suggest you STFU and stop putting words in my mouth. I merely mentioned DDoSes and I didn't even mention DDoSes at GOX. Are exchanges getting DDOS'ed? YES. Are they also utterly incompetent and operating below capacity? You can bet your britches they are. Did I say they aren't? No. Did you assume I did? Yes.

THIS IS A FREE MARKET AND INCENTIVE MECHANISMS ARE AT WORK. MTGOX MAKES MONEY DURING PANIC SELLS. OF COURSE they have a massive incentive to continue operating below capacity and causing massive panic sells. They make more money that way.
The only incentive they have to operate at or above capacity is to the extent that people will leave mtgox for better-performing exchanges, and this is simply not happening.

Again, you are an idiot, in this case I agree with you 100% regarding the incentive mechanisms at play here, yet you made assumptions and put words in my mouth. So I had to take you down a notch   dumbass.

You retort is worth its weight in bitcoins

You clearly think there is some DDOS activity going on, and yet there is no independent evidence of this. It seems rather convenient that these DDOS events did not strike when Bitcoin was soaring, and yet seem epidemic now that the exchanges are having difficulty reinflating the bubble.

Well I think DDOS is probably real as there is an independent company helping Mt. Gox deal with. Also network admins last night posted SNMP graphs of switch ports that suddenly were getting massive gigabits of traffic.  Unlikely to be a sell of based on the graphs before it kicked off.  Looks like a DDOS however, exchanges deal with it all the time.  Mt Gox could architect and handle this better.  That can not be done in 12 hours though.

[BitcoinAshley]

You clearly think there is some DDOS activity going on, and yet there is no independent evidence of this. It seems rather convenient that these DDOS events did not strike when Bitcoin was soaring, and yet seem epidemic now that the exchanges are having difficulty reinflating the bubble.

Let me explain to you how markets work, since you obviously do not understand. You see, there is this thing called an "incentive." It's like when you were in high school (so, last year) and you were failing economics class and so your mommy said "Revans, if you get at least a C+ in economics, I will raise your allowance by $2.50 a week."
Needless to say, your allowance never got raised.
We don't have independent evidence because the owners of MtGox and Bitstamp and Virtex don't let us log into their admin accounts and check their bandwidth monitoring tools. I'm not sure why they won't let us do this, Revans; maybe you should ask nicely?
However, we do have a clear motivation for someone who is planning a DDoS attack:
(1) Speculators who can DDoS following a massive sell order, making the resultant cascade many times as large as it would have been due to lag panic and resultant high volume
(2) Entire industries that would cease to exist or be significantly downsized were P2P cryptocurrencies (not Bitcoin necessarily, just the skeletal concept of P2P cryptocoins) to succeed on any large scale.

(2) is obviously only a minor consideration at this point and is more of a tip-of-the-tin-foil-hat, but we still have two clear motivations for someone to perform a DDoS.

Now, I agree that blaming all this on a DDoS is extremely naive, which is why I am not doing it. And I agree that their infrastructure should easily be able to deal with both the volume AND the DDoS. But to stick your head in the sand and pretend that throughout all this exchange downtime, DDoSs have not been happening at all - is just as naive. As Wuji pointed out - SNMP graphs were posted - they could have been faked, yes - and Gox also paid a significant sum to hire one of the leading firms in DDoS protection.
 
All the signs point to DDoSs having been carried out - to (1) deny the incentive mechanisms (2) claim the SNMP graphs were faked (3) claim the hired firm was just a cover is a bit of a stretch, at this point you should probably be on Youtube watching Alex Jones and forgetting about BTC completely.

[Richy_T]

This. The higher they manage to keep the price and volume the more they make money by skimming from the top.

True or not, it is a sign we need more exchanges that are solid. The biggest problem seems to be getting fiat in in a reliable manner. Perhaps an exchange could work on having local agents who can accept cash on an in-person basis (that's a lot of cash though).

[crazy_rabbit]

This. The higher they manage to keep the price and volume the more they make money by skimming from the top.

True or not, it is a sign we need more exchanges that are solid. The biggest problem seems to be getting fiat in in a reliable manner. Perhaps an exchange could work on having local agents who can accept cash on an in-person basis (that's a lot of cash though).

Thats a lot of agents.

[Wuji]

I never did feel comfortable putting my money in the Magic the Gathering Trading Card website to buy BTC and I'm glad I have it all back out.  Looks like my scepticism was right again.  We need a campaign to move money around to more exchanges.  This decentralized currency is currently centralized.  The only fix is to stop using them.

[seleme]

I don't trade at gox at all

[molecular]

MtGox has effectively disabled these spam bots.

There's a 6 order per minute limit, if that is reached there's a 120 second timeout.

Once they did this things started moving.

I read it in IRC as it went live.

It took them two years to figure this out...

hehe. This is just temporary so they have a decade or two to fix the engine.

[bzzard]

[BitcoinAshley]

There are still a lot of people here using Gox, and I'm not sure why.

Need liquidity? Use multiple exchanges. Pain in the butt, but what good is liquidity if you can't access it and it all goes down the drain when lag exceeds 400 seconds?

There is no excuse. Get out of Gox, y'all.

[fcmatt]

quite a few hyper bulls do not seem to be posting in this thread as much as they were last week.
did i miss something? :-P

[Chalkbot]

quite a few hyper bulls do not seem to be posting in this thread as much as they were last week.
did i miss something? :-P

I might qualify as being a "hyper bull". Watching intently, waiting to inject more money. Not participating in forum panic or conspiracies. Feeling just fine.

[seleme]

this is really pathetic now - exchange to have so screwed api in moments like this is something you'll see only with gox.

[yokosan]

There are still a lot of people here using Gox, and I'm not sure why.

Need liquidity? Use multiple exchanges. Pain in the butt, but what good is liquidity if you can't access it and it all goes down the drain when lag exceeds 400 seconds?

There is no excuse. Get out of Gox, y'all.

They stayed after the 2011 hack.

They stayed when their hashed passwords were leaked.

And they will stay after every other monumental fuckup until Gox is shut down by the authorities for criminal negligence.

[gizmoh]

Oh down here we go down  ,after the artificial PUMP, the real DUMP is back..

[ManBearPig]

Turn the BTC/USD graph upside-down.

That's the 'rate-of-nastiness on this thread' graph right there.

[Ente]

I am all in, basically, and holding on to my bitcoins. Super-bull.
No fiat available anywhere.

Any hints how to still be able to get more bitcoins out of this?
I am sure we won't go much deeper and will recover to 200$ in May.

What options would I, theoretically, have?
- take a loan and buy as many bitcoins as I can get
- make a huge bet with some bear

Both have their own obvious problems..

Queen - I'm Going Slightly Mad.mp3

Ente

[myself]

[DougTanner]

Bull traps all over the place. If you want to buy just put in bids and wait, jeeze.