GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[bitpop]

So microsoft added bitcoin. Maybe paycoin isn't viable??

NDA mate... they can't put it on their website until Josh gives them the go ahead. You know how these things go right? Wallets etc aren't out for people yet. I believe windows 10 is going to have direct paycoin integration too. It is the peoples money. I think its why zenclouds been going up and down... their programmers and techs have been working with microsoft closely for the integration as microsofts chief technical officer and his programmers were having trouble comprehending the hybrid flex and technology. They had to fly in team GAW to get it sorted.

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[T0urist]

So microsoft added bitcoin. Maybe paycoin isn't viable??

NDA mate... they can't put it on their website until Josh gives them the go ahead. You know how these things go right? Wallets etc aren't out for people yet. I believe windows 10 is going to have direct paycoin integration too. It is the peoples money. I think its why zenclouds been going up and down... their programmers and techs have been working with microsoft closely for the integration as microsofts chief technical officer and his programmers were having trouble comprehending the hybrid flex and technology. They had to fly in team GAW to get it sorted.

when you post that in the gaw-scam-forum, i guess people will believe it ....

Fixed it up to help them... i added sarcasm tags

[jackbox]

soo we can upgrade zenhaslets and about multi? i were checking my account and i got payment from day 9 december ,a delay on balance?
i also checked yesterday zen pool 0.00027 and i got paid 0,00023 i made 1 santoshi with my prime sounds good....


Device Name
    ALOGAN PRime (Hashlet Prime)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00023387 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00023386 BTC

Why do I get paid more for a free Hashlet Genesis?

So you'll buy some, otherwise you can't withdraw.

I can withdraw without buying. I have withdrawn about three times since getting it. I do small amount because I do not trust them. I actually have two under two different emails.

Kraken is a mythological creature released by Zeus in a movie. Josh just meant it was time for the Zen upgrade but very few of his lemmings understood that. A very professional way for a CEO to announce that an "upgrade" was available. I don't think it has anything to do with the Kraken exchange.

[WaffleMaster]

No Poseidon owns the Kraken. Josh owns Poseidon. Release the kraken clearly meant ZenHashlet upgrades duh. Maybe the lemmings were too busy hitting f5 for 24 hours straight that they had a mild stroke and couldn't understand such plain english. You can see all their testimonies on how long they stayed up only to get screwed over lemming style.

[T0urist]

No Poseidon owns the Kraken. Josh owns Poseidon. Release the kraken clearly meant ZenHashlet upgrades duh. Maybe the lemmings were too busy hitting f5 for 24 hours straight that they had a mild stroke and couldn't understand such plain english. You can see all their testimonies on how long they stayed up only to get screwed over lemming style.

Yep Josh just needs to sound excited and use a vague statement and the lemmings generate their own hype and shit. When the disappointment sets in or the impatience they fall back on the well to be fair he didn't actually state that.

I'm loving this paycoin bullshit its so funny. I think there are people over there that don't even understand what cryptocurrency is that are on the paycoin train. A lot of them haven't actually stopped to ask themselves what paycoin is actually offering over fiat. Just look at all their discussions... they are more interested in the release of a shiny new hashlet or gear store and the discussions never actually revolve around so what is hybrid flex and how will it help me or... so what makes paycoin superior... they are just going OMG OMG i'm going to retire in 2 years, buy a lambo etc. They really can't be that dense that they think 100s of people will be instant millionaires right? For someone to make money someone has to lose money (or your country has to print more which just devalues it but thats another story). That is the simple basis of it all.... WHY would anyone want to use paycoin? If you have a debit card now why do you need a paycoin debit card? O look i can turn my $20 into 1 paycoin pay some fees and then use that paycoin to buy something for $20. Thats not convenience nor is it anonymity so what is the actual benefit? An investment vehicle? There is literally hundreds of those now in alt coins so why not stick with the proven test of time one bitcoin.

The muppets need to start questioning exactly what benefit paycoin has. Its not decentralised because garza controls it... i'm not sure how he can say its the peoples coin and tech when he will control all the prime controllers etc. Its just using the bank of garza instead.

When the SEC and other regulatory bodies go after him its going i'd love to be a fly on the wall... he has to explain it to someone. If it eventually goes to court i would love to see the full recordings of under oath statements. Could make a box set trilogy out of it... i'd buy that in paycoin(s).

[AtomicFrost]

Loss immediately: $ 7,000

90 days x $ 120 = $ 10,800
Total loss: $ 17,800
No !!!
I will not allow this.
Pre-written terms and conditions?
I have not seen anywhere.
I sold my car to buy zen.

WOW I sense some desertion in the ranks.. When will the CEO swoop in and be the super hero?

P.S. This guy sold his car!! 

This is a great example of why you don't go into debt "investing."  It's also a great example of why GAW imploding is going to be very damaging to the crypto scene in general; stories like this have quite the chilling affect to potential small investors.  

[jackbox]

Loss immediately: $ 7,000

90 days x $ 120 = $ 10,800
Total loss: $ 17,800
No !!!
I will not allow this.
Pre-written terms and conditions?
I have not seen anywhere.
I sold my car to buy zen.

WOW I sense some desertion in the ranks.. When will the CEO swoop in and be the super hero?

P.S. This guy sold his car!!  

This is a great example of why you don't go into debt "investing."  It's also a great example of why GAW imploding is going to be very damaging to the crypto scene in general; stories like this have quite the chilling affect to potential small investors.  

That's ok. He has a lot of valuable Zen's. ROFL (feel sorry for his wife and children if he has them).

[10BTCaDay]

I like how Josh states that its a "free" upgrade after he scammed people into paying for a cryptocurrency wallet. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF PAYING FOR A WALLET UNLESS I'M BUYING A TREZOR.
Nothing is free with Josh, trust me.

Now Josh is stating that he doesn't have enough wallets, thats a huge load of shit.
What idiot creates a coin with the capability of 10,000 wallets.
Hes using the same marketing gimmicks since June and I'm tired of him scamming people and lying to people.
Then you have douchebags like r00tdude defending the scam because he knows that we are hurting Josh's sales and people are bailing.

One less BTC in Josh's wallet and the top tier of the ponzi scheme is better than nothing.

[AtomicFrost]

I love how these stakers are a "limited" product when it comes time for people to upgrade their Zen's. However, you can buy an unlimited amount of them on the gawminers web store .  .  .   Oh that's right; it's all about the money I mean miners with Josh.

[WaffleMaster]

I love transforming my $1 into 50 cents or less via weird and confusing non existent virtual things, so I might give GAW a try. Oh, wait, I already did and got out 50% less than what I put in. ($80 to $40) At least I didn't lose my car or was one of those idiots that you read on HT that go all-in by getting loans or selling their house or something. Oh yeah, and about their PoS wallets, I don't think I'll need to pay for 500 wallets because I have one in my back pocket the whole time. But hey, let us see some PoS alt coin try to launch with the condition you have to buy your wallets and see how far they get.

I love how these stakers are a "limited" product when it comes time for people to upgrade their Zen's. However, you can buy an unlimited amount of them on the gawminers web store .  .  .   Oh that's right; it's all about the money I mean miners with Josh.

[maildir]

[GA]

It's become more and more obvious when following GAW's announcements that Josh just does not understand currency. And to be fair, it's a very tricky subject. To really understand Bitcoin you need to first understand fiat.

Paycoin removes several of the main strengths of a cryptocurrency. What's the point to try to introduce a "floor" - backed by their own supply of good ol' fiat USD? That's just counterintuitive. There is no need for a cryptocurrency backed by fiat (if you want it there's Ripple's IOU system which can be made to achieve same effect). Also, no need for another debit card, Xapo and several others do that.
And, if almost everyone wants to sell their Paycoins will GAW buy every one that is up for sale up to 100MUSD? I don't think so... I wouldn't, even if I was GAW/Josh and didn't understand currency.

That idea of a floor, in Josh's head, does not constitute a real "floor" or a "backing". The coin's exchange rate will still fall to close to nothing if few wants to buy them when many others want to get rid of them (which is likely). Josh has not explained how this floor is supposed to work, and will probably have a hard time doing so as he does not understand currency or cryptocurrency. As the latter is supposed to be decentralized - how could GAW then stop the coin from being traded at lower rates on other exchanges? In what world would they be able to execute a "floor" 24/7 affecting all exchanges?

It is painfully obvious in the interview done with "Coinbrief"; Josh can't answer simple questions on how his currency and its blockchain works, even though that info is more important than any marketing gimmick he can think of. He talks about a "very, very reputable company doing that". The details (block time, supply rate, inflation controls etc) of a currency are the most important things to get right - especially if you want to have a chance of predicting ROI, but Josh is not so interested in that (it takes a lot of reading to really understand currency). How can GAW base their whole future on something its own CEO clearly states he doesn't understand?

Nothing comes close in processing power to the Bitcoin network, thanks to its simplicity and more than 5 years of ongoing network effect. Cashtakers, time-limited pos wallet that needs coins loaded, prime controllers, origin, double dip, boost, amp bla bla etc etc is not simple = not likely to succeed (even IF a buy wall was possible in a truly decentralized cryptocurrency).

In general it seems Josh just doesn't "get" bitcoin. He talks about this new currency as being designed for institutional investors, for "business" - and for "miners", sorry, "stakers". He has built in a lot of bells and whistles with those Hashlets for the gamification crowd, making it more "complex" (more stupid, really). Those bells and whistles are useless for a currency. Actually, it makes for a less efficient currency (more time-consuming). A cryptocurrency either stands on its own legs (the genesis block) or it wont stand at all. Bitcoin has way too much of a head-start and will be enough going forward, especially considering sidechains.

I think Josh never really intended for this to be a scam as they moved from importing hardware to selling cloudy fluffy stuff marketed as "miners" doing "mining" (in reality nothing more than scripts and numbers in GAW's database).
He probably underestimated delivery times, got left cold after something failed and stopped the Vaultbreaker, tried to cover-up with Hashlets "mining", got the idea to turn everything into cloud gamification, got really cocky and fooled himself into believing he understands currency. Josh's reasoning indicates he thinks of cryptocurrencies as where they stocks in a company.

As for this scam hurting cryptocurrencies in general - well, I'm of the opposite view. We need a couple of more scams and security breaches (Stellar?) in altcoins and altblockchains so people get the point with the Bitcoin network. Stop the altcoins, do sidechains if you need bells and whistles.

[AtomicFrost]

snip

As for this scam hurting cryptocurrencies in general - well, I'm of the opposite view. We need a couple of more scams and security breaches (Stellar?) in altcoins and altblockchains so people get the point with the Bitcoin network. Stop the altcoins, do sidechains if you need bells and whistles.

Very well put post; I think you hit GAW's issues dead on.

That's also a very interesting point of view about scams in crypto; I wonder if all of these altcoin scams will eventually push more people / developers into using the BTC blockchain? It will be interesting to see what the altcoin scene will look like by December 2015.

[miri94]

No Poseidon owns the Kraken. Josh owns Poseidon. Release the kraken clearly meant ZenHashlet upgrades duh. Maybe the lemmings were too busy hitting f5 for 24 hours straight that they had a mild stroke and couldn't understand such plain english. You can see all their testimonies on how long they stayed up only to get screwed over lemming style.

you are mixing greek with nordic mythologies

you just crossed the streams in ghostbusters

now time will collapse

[WaffleMaster]

Criteria to help you spot a cloud mining scam/ponzi.

1) No public mining address / no user select-able pool.
A cloud mining company that wont let you direct the hashrate to your pool of choosing and cant prove its actually mining bitcoins itself, is very likely a scam. There is no reason to hide mining address or not sign blocks. None.  (As it relates to GAW Fairly obvious.)

2) No relevant pictures of their hardware and datacenter
There is no reason not to provide such pictures, except of course, if there is nothing to take pictures off. Mind you: pictures can be faked. Picture don't prove current ownership. So like all criteria listed here, by themselves they are by far insufficient proof. As it relates to GAW. Again fairly obvious.

3) Open ended IPO
Unless the cloud mining is operated by the asic vendor himself, you can not sell an unlimited amount of hashrate. Hardware takes (usually a long) time to order, arrive and deploy. Any company that doesnt limit sales or make public how much hashrate they sold vs what they have (provably) deployed should be considered extremely suspicious. As it relates to GAW. See a common theme here?

4) Referral programs and social networking
Referral programs, especially ones that pay almost 10%, are a huge red flag. The mining market is cut throat with razor thin margins. No real company can afford to pay 10% referrals on below market cloudmining prices. Referral programs almost always serve only to feed the ponzi and provide financial incentive to posters to lie about the true nature of the company. Never trust anyone with a referral link in their sig. AS IT RELATES TO GAW. Now here it gets really juicy. If you remember, they were giving out 500 HashPoints to somebody who could successfully refer somebody and get them to buy a hashlet (multihashlet were $7 max). So, since GAW_CEO himself quoted HP at .01 each, they would be worth $5. Now wait, that seems like a very very high percentage?


5) No exit strategy
If you cant sell your position, you cant get your money out. That's the ideal case for a ponzi and allows it to run for a  long time. As it relates to GAW People can't or don't want to sell their hashlets because they are no where near ROI, so they need to keep buying and buying to try and even see the light of day again or take the loss.

[miri94]

Please please I implore you guys, you are sabotaging everything I have worked for, I have put everything into this to make it work so that I may retire and you guys are ruining it all for me.  Please refrain until the first round goes through and I promise you will never see me again.

Josh the donkey says:
(a) there has to be an actual loss for people to sue
(b) he also put in the terms and conditions that both parties agree NOT to go to court and jury to resolve any dispute

these 2 points should summarise it for you if you are not in the matrix, but for your newbie status i will care to explain:
by "upgrading" (ROFL) your hashlet from a thing that he committed to always make profitable to something that it tied to a market value which will not be 1 satoshi it will be 0 satoshi, you are willingly accepting the change in terms of contract. the only way for him to get rid of you is this way.

if you disagree with him, you have to accept arbitrage: there is no question about this you agreed to it and you signed on to it

the one any only way to get him is to actually sustain a loss. you will have to get hurt if you want him to get hurt as simple as that. once the ponzi falls on his head, he will default on you and then the SEC et al. will put him in orange and you will get a fraction to the dollar

if you do not sell your hashlets on the market Now and take your loss you will either end up with nothing willingly or end up with a fraction and him in jail

and stop dreaming for God's sake wait guys until the end of round 1 so what you can cash your paycoins at $20 each, are you delusional, seriously... you think you're the only one who is going to do that?

[bitpop]

soo we can upgrade zenhaslets and about multi? i were checking my account and i got payment from day 9 december ,a delay on balance?
i also checked yesterday zen pool 0.00027 and i got paid 0,00023 i made 1 santoshi with my prime sounds good....


Device Name
    ALOGAN PRime (Hashlet Prime)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00023387 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00023386 BTC

Why do I get paid more for a free Hashlet Genesis?

So you'll buy some, otherwise you can't withdraw.

I can withdraw without buying. I have withdrawn about three times since getting it. I do small amount because I do not trust them. I actually have two under two different emails.

Kraken is a mythological creature released by Zeus in a movie. Josh just meant it was time for the Zen upgrade but very few of his lemmings understood that. A very professional way for a CEO to announce that an "upgrade" was available. I don't think it has anything to do with the Kraken exchange.

No way my zen says you can't withdraw free hashing

[jackbox]

soo we can upgrade zenhaslets and about multi? i were checking my account and i got payment from day 9 december ,a delay on balance?
i also checked yesterday zen pool 0.00027 and i got paid 0,00023 i made 1 santoshi with my prime sounds good....


Device Name
    ALOGAN PRime (Hashlet Prime)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00023387 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00023386 BTC

Why do I get paid more for a free Hashlet Genesis?

So you'll buy some, otherwise you can't withdraw.

I can withdraw without buying. I have withdrawn about three times since getting it. I do small amount because I do not trust them. I actually have two under two different emails.

Kraken is a mythological creature released by Zeus in a movie. Josh just meant it was time for the Zen upgrade but very few of his lemmings understood that. A very professional way for a CEO to announce that an "upgrade" was available. I don't think it has anything to do with the Kraken exchange.

No way my zen says you can't withdraw free hashing

Not a zen. A free hashlet genesis and yes, I do withdraw the money it earns.

[siampumpkin]

soo we can upgrade zenhaslets and about multi? i were checking my account and i got payment from day 9 december ,a delay on balance?
i also checked yesterday zen pool 0.00027 and i got paid 0,00023 i made 1 santoshi with my prime sounds good....


Device Name
    ALOGAN PRime (Hashlet Prime)
Power
    1 MH
BTC Payout
    0.00023387 BTC
Maintenance Fee
    -0.00023386 BTC

Why do I get paid more for a free Hashlet Genesis?

So you'll buy some, otherwise you can't withdraw.

I can withdraw without buying. I have withdrawn about three times since getting it. I do small amount because I do not trust them. I actually have two under two different emails.

Kraken is a mythological creature released by Zeus in a movie. Josh just meant it was time for the Zen upgrade but very few of his lemmings understood that. A very professional way for a CEO to announce that an "upgrade" was available. I don't think it has anything to do with the Kraken exchange.

No way my zen says you can't withdraw free hashing

Not a zen. A free hashlet genesis and yes, I do withdraw the money it earns.

I have a freebee as well and I do withdraw the little it pays every few days or so. I used to have a few Zens in another account but I sold those and broke even when the first promises by Homero were broken. I didn't stick around after the first and wonder why anybody did?

[vach]

(b) he also put in the terms and conditions that both parties agree NOT to go to court and jury to resolve any dispute

where is that comming from? zencloud toc?