GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[bubbaj]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

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[ellave]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

[crashoveride54902]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

I just did a .07 withdrawl and it went thur

[matale0]

Can you let me know about gaw new product hashstacker

What is it? Is it mining itself?


Is it worth my time?

Any reviews?

[suchmoon]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

[corygto]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

Haha isn't that one of the biggest signs of a ponzi?

[suchmoon]

Can you let me know about gaw new product hashstacker

What is it? Is it mining itself?


Is it worth my time?

Any reviews?

It's not mining. It's like a deposit that pays interest, but you also have to own at least one PayCoin to be able to use it. Read these:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/20382
https://hashtalk.org/topic/20377

If I may suggest don't play with it unless you're absolutely sure what you're getting into.

[suchmoon]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

Haha isn't that one of the biggest signs of a ponzi?

I am stubbornly refusing to call it a ponzi simply because GAW does not need to use new customers' funds to pay old customers (the typical definition of a ponzi). They can just stop paying old customers, period. Like the 1 satoshi joke on solo owners. Also most of the hashlet sales recently went through the market where GAW is not selling anything, they just collect commission, again non-ponzi income. Something similar will probably happen to the HashStaker, since they are already pumping it and promising higher prices. We need a new word/definition for what's going on here.

I don't know though why they seem to be having these troubles with withdrawals. I don't believe they are running out of cash unless they horribly mismanaged something along the way. I think I mentioned somewhere that they are nowhere close to having paid out even the $16 to the first Hashlet owners, so they should have a lot of cash laying around or invested in mining hardware and generating income.

[suchmoon]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

[Flep182]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

If you take out the costs of the staker, you get a 100-200% return. Hell yes to that. Problem is that you get Paycoin. Which could've dropped to nothing by the time you are out. I see the logic in the plan bubbaj draws out. I'm afraid a lot of them will just run after the CEO and keep their coins there, since, well, maximum profit, changing the world etc etc.
Because they (most probably) don't mine anything (or just have 1 S3 pointed at it, because who needs decentralization if you're the only one that "mines") they are actually sitting on an (undefined) heap of coins and can control the release into the wild. If they give you this (for them free) coin and you decide to swap it for "more real" currency (btc/ltc/fiat) you probably used hashpoints to get there. Besides the points they give away for referrals (that actually gets them 0,015-0,02 BTC in) they are trading the HP's for lost mining revenue. So in a sense everyone using HP's to buy paycoin is in a sense already buying with btc. Then there is a large amount of btc with GAW to buy back your coins afterwards.

[T0urist]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

Haha isn't that one of the biggest signs of a ponzi?

I am stubbornly refusing to call it a ponzi simply because GAW does not need to use new customers' funds to pay old customers (the typical definition of a ponzi). They can just stop paying old customers, period. Like the 1 satoshi joke on solo owners. Also most of the hashlet sales recently went through the market where GAW is not selling anything, they just collect commission, again non-ponzi income. Something similar will probably happen to the HashStaker, since they are already pumping it and promising higher prices. We need a new word/definition for what's going on here.

I don't know though why they seem to be having these troubles with withdrawals. I don't believe they are running out of cash unless they horribly mismanaged something along the way. I think I mentioned somewhere that they are nowhere close to having paid out even the $16 to the first Hashlet owners, so they should have a lot of cash laying around or invested in mining hardware and generating income.

I'm unsure what the limitations are on the withdrawals. The site says "withdrawals limited based on amount as hot wallet doesn't contain large amounts". Now i've seen multiple hot wallet addresses for my withdrawals and most seemed to contain 127BTC. I did a withdrawal > 10BTC and it was set on pending. I had to lodge a ticket with a screenshot of the withdrawal pending AND the blockchain.info transaction address showing it had 0 BTC. I kept then doing around 4BTC at a time to stay under the radar amount and it worked till yesterday when a 2.91 or so one was held pending. They have released it now but they must be tracking your overall withdrawal amounts to with hold. I don't see why.... its not really protection since 2FA forced on people provide that protection so people need both my phone and password.

I noticed numerous bugs with withdrawals as well... sometimes it would say unable to process transaction in the red box... sometimes it would say enter btc amount even though i had it in there. I realised that something code wise their end wasn't running as the USD box next to the BTC box wasn't populating as i entered BTC.

I'm glad i've retrieved all my BTC though. I'd go back in if it was more transparent as i did like the interface and idea of hashlets but i can't get past the cult mentality of praise and no wrong on the hashtalk forums and the lack of providing proof to those asking for it. Saying have faith and trust isn't enough. Faith and trust hasn't brought out the CNN and Forbes or whatever it was articles... the Wall street journal thing wasn't an interview... it was a press release. Google trends show no heavy searching on this... target, wallmart and amazon WERE quoted by the CEO of GAW now thats gone. Its just too fishy.

I am stubbornly refusing to call it a ponzi simply because GAW does not need to use new customers' funds to pay old customers (the typical definition of a ponzi).

How do you know? What if the customer sales on market 10% (5% for sell 5% for buy) are whats supporting the payouts? As well as the new staker sales etc. Everything is being pushed to paycoin yet the customers are paying in BTC. Something isn't right. People are reinvesting BTC earned from payouts so nothing is leaving the eco system which would be typical of a mining contract... you pay upfront to take excess out.
This is all going to come crashing down i believe the day paycoin hits if it does. People are trying to get big amounts of paycoin with the expectation that they can go on paybase or whatever it is and sell @ $20. Shouldn't that $250 million backing allow people to withdraw @ that price? (unless that $250 million backing isn't real).

Who are the partners... why aren't they named? Sure NDA yeah yeah... is there a date they will come out and say who it is?

I think its way too dangerous. Its going to collapse eventually when enough strain happens. Its just at the start of it all with everyone establishing big investments for big returns. Come return time i think there is going to be alot of anger and tears.

[coinGeek]

...

 I think I mentioned somewhere that they are nowhere close to having paid out even the $16 to the first Hashlet owners, so they should have a lot of cash laying around or invested in mining hardware and generating income.

Do you think that's true?

I had some of those $16 hashlets that converted to primes. I was far from receiving ROI from GAW when I sold out and at that point I had a nice profit. Common story, but we were paid off by other punters, not GAW! (gaw just took the %10 on both sides :grinning: all the way to the bank)

That's an interesting perspective on the ponzi-or-not question. Thanks for that.

If other players buy you out willingly it's not your classic cold secretive con... It's done more with hard played, full press marketing playing on the trusting and inexperienced.  It creeps me out.

[T0urist]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

I think thats the ultimate plan.... investors in GAW are paying other investors in GAW's daily payouts. GAW pushes investors away from mining BTC to staking/mining the new paycoin. Paycoin dies out slowly all the while Josh's company has made BTC on the side from market sales / initial hashlet sales / staker sales etc. The real hardware if they have it is mining for them. Once paycoin dies or decreases in value the blame is on outside forces... GAW exits BTC market with the BTC made. No crime, no punishment its made to look like a created product just didn't succeed and it was an investment like every other with risk involved.

The lack of transparency and failure to show addresses for mining etc prevents people from matching the numbers up to see the truth. Its a scheme with many layers.

[corygto]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

I think thats the ultimate plan.... investors in GAW are paying other investors in GAW's daily payouts. GAW pushes investors away from mining BTC to staking/mining the new paycoin. Paycoin dies out slowly all the while Josh's company has made BTC on the side from market sales / initial hashlet sales / staker sales etc. The real hardware if they have it is mining for them. Once paycoin dies or decreases in value the blame is on outside forces... GAW exits BTC market with the BTC made. No crime, no punishment its made to look like a created product just didn't succeed and it was an investment like every other with risk involved.

The lack of transparency and failure to show addresses for mining etc prevents people from matching the numbers up to see the truth. Its a scheme with many layers.

I think your breakdown is exactly what's going on, and exactly what's going to happen sometime soon.

[ellave]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

You couldn't withdraw?  I just get an error flash up in bottom right "unable to process your transaction at this time"  was that what you had?

I too played into their hands & bought 5 x 3 month hashwank with the plan to just sell them in market for a small profit.

[suchmoon]

...

 I think I mentioned somewhere that they are nowhere close to having paid out even the $16 to the first Hashlet owners, so they should have a lot of cash laying around or invested in mining hardware and generating income.

Do you think that's true?

Which part, that $16 per MH/s hasn't been paid out yet? It's a fact. Even with double dips, which I'm using with about 75% efficiency, I got ~0.022 BTC ($8 at current rate) for each original Prime. With ideal double dips it could have been close to $9. So in the absolute best case they are still sitting on $7 of my cash, and breaking even on those uber-cheap hardware sales ($10 or less per MH/s) converted to primes. Any September and later sales that are now paying out 1 satoshi are almost pure profit.

Of course you have to subtract $1-$2 million for the Bitmain order and their operating costs, but they are claiming $120m annual sales and other huge numbers.

This also means that any >100% "ROI" could only come from resale, which is funded through the "free market". Can free market be a ponzi? I guess it depends on how you look at it. I just think this scenario is unique enough, because they were able to simply stop paying old customers, so no need (technically - I have no clue as to actual cashflow) to take money from new customers to pay existing obligations.

[suchmoon]

Nearly 72 hours now & I cant withdraw my BTC (less then 0.5)  I get no response on my ticket only when I hunt them down on Chat then they tell me they dont know why & they are looking into it.  I am sure in the last 24 hours they have had zero trouble taking peoples BTC

Meh, I had ~$60 stuck there for a week, spent it on stalkers - bought two each. I'm sure they would prefer you do the same  

It's becoming an uphill battle to get any kind of real cash out of this thing. Good thing I don't have much left there.

You couldn't withdraw?  I just get an error flash up in bottom right "unable to process your transaction at this time"  was that what you had?

I too played into their hands & bought 5 x 3 month hashwank with the plan to just sell them in market for a small profit.

Yes, I was getting "unable to process" for the last week or so. We are the ideal customers, aren't we. "Voluntarily" reinvesting. Now if we could just shut up and stop bitching about it 

[corygto]

I guess I don't understand...

So are people actually lining up to pay for a "cloud wallet" that stakes coins that don't exist?

I feel like there are plenty of PoS coins out there that you can stake for free using a downloaded wallet. Why are people paying for monthly contracts to do just that 

[suchmoon]

I guess I don't understand...

So are people actually lining up to pay for a "cloud wallet" that stakes coins that don't exist?

I feel like there are plenty of PoS coins out there that you can stake for free using a downloaded wallet. Why are people paying for monthly contracts to do just that 

Ok, I'm gonna repeat this louder: 400% APY

To paraphrase someone: If you can resist that we don't want you as a customer

[coinGeek]

...

 I think I mentioned somewhere that they are nowhere close to having paid out even the $16 to the first Hashlet owners, so they should have a lot of cash laying around or invested in mining hardware and generating income.

Do you think that's true?

Which part, that $16 per MH/s hasn't been paid out yet? It's a fact. Even with double dips, which I'm using with about 75% efficiency, I got ~0.022 BTC ($8 at current rate) for each original Prime. With ideal double dips it could have been close to $9. So in the absolute best case they are still sitting on $7 of my cash, and breaking even on those uber-cheap hardware sales ($10 or less per MH/s) converted to primes. Any September and later sales that are now paying out 1 satoshi are almost pure profit.

Of course you have to subtract $1-$2 million for the Bitmain order and their operating costs, but they are claiming $120m annual sales and other huge numbers.

This also means that any >100% "ROI" could only come from resale, which is funded through the "free market". Can free market be a ponzi? I guess it depends on how you look at it. I just think this scenario is unique enough, because they were able to simply stop paying old customers, so no need (technically - I have no clue as to actual cashflow) to take money from new customers to pay existing obligations.

What you say is true. And it might not even be as illegal either. Immoral maybe, but it's just the kind of thing the folks in the smoke filled rooms call "just business". Just a bunch of deliberately misleading, overstated, confusing spectacle (marketing). But put it on the internet and aim it at the booming altcoin market. Face it, we have proved ourselves willing to throw piles of our coins at some dubious products in the past.  

So, how about a product that is all story, web design, and a database?