NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012)

[filharvey]

As u say the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This is where having an asset issuer with deep pockets is helpful.  I will be buying ASICs for myself as well and would be willing to point my personal ASICs at the company GPUMAX account until the shareholder equipment arrives in this scenario.

So from that, as a possible investor (I've thought about buying in as I just want the weekly returns on 1mh/s. If I buy in and have a share, and you upgrade equipment, am i on 1mh/s or 20mh/s on the upgrade date or delivery date? I'm assuming 1mh/s.

But for x months you are willing to pay out of your pocket? For any normal person this can only happen for a few months,what happens if bfl never deliver,or deliver below the 20mh/s?

Would it not be best to start a new bond for the hardware?

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[Newar]

sahub

[OgNasty]

So from that, as a possible investor (I've thought about buying in as I just want the weekly returns on 1mh/s. If I buy in and have a share, and you upgrade equipment, am i on 1mh/s or 20mh/s on the upgrade date or delivery date? I'm assuming 1mh/s.

The 20MH/s would go into effect upon the delivery date of an ASIC miner.

But for x months you are willing to pay out of your pocket? For any normal person this can only happen for a few months,what happens if bfl never deliver,or deliver below the 20mh/s?

Obviously I'm not going to pay dividends out of my pocket forever and I have no plan to start doing so at this time.  If delays become longer than anticipated, that is one option I have to compensate shareholders for their trust and investment.  I don't think anyone I've dealt with in the past is concerned that I'm not going to compensate shareholders.  At this time, any announcement as far as extraordinary compensation would be premature.

Would it not be best to start a new bond for the hardware?

No.  I have no intention of ever issuing a bond.  I think issuing a bond in the face of the coming mining environment would be taking advantage of investors, which is why I specifically structured this investment as a share of a company.  It leaves the door open for a lot of growth for shareholders that would otherwise be unavailable.

Would it not be best to start a new bond for the hardware?

NASTY is no bond! IMHO thats why it would be best to stick to this security.

Amen.

@NASTY what if competitors double your Mhash/s per BTC
Is 20 Mhash/s is just a rough guess and the actual hashrate could be higher too?

I'm not worried about what my competitors do.  The 20MH/s was an educated estimate using the figures published in Butterfly Labs' press release.  The actual number could be more or less depending on the final figures released by Butterfly Labs.  However, I think 20MH/s is a realistic expectation at this point.

[Bitcoin Oz]

This is an interesting venture and I like buying shares knowing it owns part of the underlying asset rather than just a normal mining bond, which I think are a cop-out.

[gewure]

hey nasty!

i bought some shares cause this sounds alot safer than what is common on the glbse. there are 2 other assets, that also intent to hedge/reinvest big parts of theire earnings: BTCSYN and BTC-Mining.

it seems they are a lot more stable when it comes to bitcoin prices (no wonder, since they are sitting on big sums of bitcoin all the time) and especially in the case of rising bitcoin prices, their profitability and marketcapitalisation both grows. so rather than mining-bonds, which loose in worth if btc price rises, this way is a win-win strategy, supposed bitcoin will rise in price.

i would suggest, that at there should be a reserve in bitcoin totaling at least 10% of the ognastys market capitalisation to hedge ognasty against volatility and another 10% in dollar/euro.

i don't mind if you pay out dividends at all, i would even prefer to not beeing payed dividends if the aquisation of capital could be neede in the near future, cause own earnings are much cheaper than taking a loan, offcourse.

So i would prefer the paper-only earnings rather than dividends. but this is anyway something that needs to be discussed by the shareholders!
(dividends vs. capitalparking is always the main issue at stockholder meetings)

also, in case of further capital need (cause of a good opportunity maybe, im thinking of ASICS e.g.) make sure to have contact to ppl with big pockets or investmentfunds. here e.g. GBF comes to my mind. the profit they get from investing big sums comes from the faster ROI they get if ogNasty has the capital needed.

just my thoughts on business economics

[OgNasty]

i would suggest, that at there should be a reserve in bitcoin totaling at least 10% of the ognastys market capitalisation to hedge ognasty against volatility and another 10% in dollar/euro.

i don't mind if you pay out dividends at all, i would even prefer to not beeing payed dividends if the aquisation of capital could be neede in the near future, cause own earnings are much cheaper than taking a loan, offcourse.

So i would prefer the paper-only earnings rather than dividends. but this is anyway something that needs to be discussed by the shareholders!
(dividends vs. capitalparking is always the main issue at stockholder meetings)

I like those ideas, and I agree that they would be best for the long term growth of the company.  Once we start seeing some profits I am definitely willing to put up a few motions to see if shareholders are interested in taking a portion of the profits and using them to invest or save.  When it comes to what to do with the profits, it is up to the shareholders.  Most will want dividends, but I could see a motion to use a % of profits for a transparent investment portfolio passing.

[OgNasty]

UPDATE:
More than 5GH/s has now been ordered for this operation.

[Sp0tter]

Shared up & subbed.    * Can't wait for some nasty little dividends. *

[Sp0tter]

UPDATE:
More than 5GH/s has now been ordered for this operation.

So what exactly is the situation.  Is this additional hardware or is nothing currently mining?  What is the ETA to be mining / anticipated dividends payout?

[OgNasty]

UPDATE:
More than 5GH/s has now been ordered for this operation.

So what exactly is the situation.  Is this additional hardware or is nothing currently mining?  What is the ETA to be mining / anticipated dividends payout?

We have several units on order with Butterfly Labs currently. A couple of the units were ordered 5+ weeks ago. I'd imagine we'll have them whenever BFL completes their next production run. If I can get one sooner from a 3rd party for a reasonable price, I will do so. No matter what happens, I'm planning to start paying dividends in some form starting in July.

[ianspain]

glad to be part of this 

[OgNasty]

It looks like we can expect our ASICs in October.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

[ianspain]

i would suggest, that at there should be a reserve in bitcoin totaling at least 10% of the ognastys market capitalisation to hedge ognasty against volatility and another 10% in dollar/euro.

i don't mind if you pay out dividends at all, i would even prefer to not beeing payed dividends if the aquisation of capital could be neede in the near future, cause own earnings are much cheaper than taking a loan, offcourse.

So i would prefer the paper-only earnings rather than dividends. but this is anyway something that needs to be discussed by the shareholders!
(dividends vs. capitalparking is always the main issue at stockholder meetings)

I like those ideas, and I agree that they would be best for the long term growth of the company.  Once we start seeing some profits I am definitely willing to put up a few motions to see if shareholders are interested in taking a portion of the profits and using them to invest or save.  When it comes to what to do with the profits, it is up to the shareholders.  Most will want dividends, but I could see a motion to use a % of profits for a transparent investment portfolio passing.

These sound like fantastic ideas, another idea that popped into my head, should we insure the hardware? we could do this via dividends in the future.

[OgNasty]

should we insure the hardware? we could do this via dividends in the future.

I really don't think it is necessary.  Insurance will only protect against theft or something like flooding or a house fire.  I have several large dogs, guns & a house alarm to deter theft.  I also do not live in an area where flooding is a problem and hope that my house doesn't catch fire.  The major concern would be the product breaking, at which point we'd be dependent on BFL's warranty program.  So personally, I think insurance would be a waste of money.  That being said, we can definitely vote on it if enough shareholders are interested.

[OgNasty]

UPDATE:
I have just placed the order for our BitForce SCs from Butterfly Labs.  We should be near the VERY top of the list.  

EDIT: First to order SCs confirmed by Butterfly Labs.

[cst]

UPDATE:
I have just placed the order for our BitForce SCs from Butterfly Labs.  We should be near the VERY top of the list.   ;D

EDIT: Order confirmed by Butterfly Labs.

This would have been a bit more exciting if it wasn't for those 5 (6?) months we have to wait for it now ;) but still, great news :)
I only wish I had more cash right now so I could order a coffee warmer for myself :)

[OgNasty]

UPDATE:
I have just placed the order for our BitForce SCs from Butterfly Labs.  We should be near the VERY top of the list.  

EDIT: Order confirmed by Butterfly Labs.

This would have been a bit more exciting if it wasn't for those 5 (6?) months we have to wait for it now but still, great news
I only wish I had more cash right now so I could order a coffee warmer for myself

It should be less than 4 months if BFL can hit their shipping estimate (a big IF).  We still have FPGA Singles on the way, which will arrive before then and will provide some dividends while we wait.  Not to mention I think I may have been the first person to order the SC Singles, so our dividends could get pretty exciting in October...

[miscreanity]

Six SC-singles? Nice!

To get ASIC mining started as quickly as possible, would it be possible to put up the funds initially to have the ASICs delivered immediately, then have your balance credited upon BFL receipt of the FPGA units?

[Gladamas]

I think I may have been the first person to order the SC Singles, so our dividends could get pretty exciting in October...

Yep, you were the first to order the singles, but you weren't the first to order.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89521.0

EDIT: Oh wait you already posted on that thread

[ErebusBat]

I think I may have been the first person to order the SC Singles, so our dividends could get pretty exciting in October...

I think there is going to be a very interesting period when the ASICS first hit.  Hopefully we can time it right AFTER a difficulty change so we get a full two weeks of bliss!