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Author Topic: Website For All Lenders and Borrowers  (Read 1938 times)
malaimult
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June 11, 2012, 09:55:32 PM
 #21

bro you are just a simple website owner you do not make guarantees for any of the borrowers keep that in mind. you will also have term of use and all sorts of pages explaining this. but to keep your website as much as clean it's your business doing this. i didn't hear paypal complaining about stolen accounts and give money to people back. also the lender will have the last word so it's entirely up to him.

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PatrickHarnett
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June 12, 2012, 02:26:44 AM
 #22

Sub for interest.

Anything linked to facebook and I'm out (as would a lot of other people).  I hate it as much as Apple (happily and irrationally) and now seeing iJunk is making farcebook part of the OS, I have even more reason to avoid over-priced POS.

As an observation, you might have a look through the lending/market-place sub-forums to see how much business is actually being done.  There are a few, but not heaps.  Also, funnelling funds through your website makes another point of failure and/or attack.  I would need to trust you pretty thoroughly before putting any appreciable volume of business through your site.

And for ignoring at the bottom of the post:
Anything linked to facebook and I'm out (as would a lot of other people).  I hate it as much as Apple (happily and irrationally) and now seeing iJunk is making farcebook part of the OS, I have even more reason to avoid over-priced iPOS.
bombartier357
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June 12, 2012, 01:52:33 PM
 #23

Sub for interest.

Anything linked to facebook and I'm out (as would a lot of other people).  I hate it as much as Apple (happily and irrationally) and now seeing iJunk is making farcebook part of the OS, I have even more reason to avoid over-priced POS.

As an observation, you might have a look through the lending/market-place sub-forums to see how much business is actually being done.  There are a few, but not heaps.  Also, funnelling funds through your website makes another point of failure and/or attack.  I would need to trust you pretty thoroughly before putting any appreciable volume of business through your site.

And for ignoring at the bottom of the post:
Anything linked to facebook and I'm out (as would a lot of other people).  I hate it as much as Apple (happily and irrationally) and now seeing iJunk is making farcebook part of the OS, I have even more reason to avoid over-priced iPOS.

Yes I do agree that Facebook is not an idea solution.  It would not be required that you sign up for facebook, but could add to your credibility.  All personal information would be entirely voluntary.  And as far as funneling coin through my site... I would really want to avoid this possible by adding bitcoin-abe database through mysql so that I can still record payments just by running a sql query on the blockchain.

I feel like there will be many problems with payments not being recorded properly.  I would need to know the bitcoin address before a payment is made and not after.  Because someone could simply just look up the blockchain transactions and pull a bitcoin address that has made a payment there and pawn it off as their own.  Also, the bitcoin address would most likely change often and would require constant updates from the end user...

Should I implement one? or both? Any ideas?  Doing both would be easy enough and only require an extra day or two of code.

Customers might be in short supply, but I would also like to render lending services on this site as well.  So if nobody wants to use this tool, at least I could...
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June 12, 2012, 08:35:49 PM
 #24

Addresses for users and payment/loans would (should) be set up in advance.  I run a dedicated receiving address for every customer so I know where incoming coins are from and so I can track them.

Anyway - sub'd for interest.
malaimult
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June 12, 2012, 09:17:45 PM
 #25

bombartier357 i suggest you put your ass to work and after the project it's almost done we can give alternative suggestions.
 

bombartier357
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June 12, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
 #26

Addresses for users and payment/loans would (should) be set up in advance.  I run a dedicated receiving address for every customer so I know where incoming coins are from and so I can track them.

Anyway - sub'd for interest.

Right, the addresses would be set up in advance if they were paying through my hot wallet.  If I were to integrate bitcoin-abe as well, then customers would actually be using their addresses on their own wallets.  These addresses would(should) be set up in advance, but I also want most bitcoin users to be able to make payments easily and reduce human error.  Under the circumstances that they do not update their bitcoin address on my website and they make a payment to the lender; because their address is not properly updated the payment would not be recorded.  I hope I explained that well enough.
bombartier357
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June 12, 2012, 09:53:35 PM
 #27

bombartier357 i suggest you put your ass to work and after the project it's almost done we can give alternative suggestions.
 

Most of the code is set up, but there are still a few large parts of the code that need to be implemented.  Mainly issues that requires input from possible users.  When I get the beta up and running I will give the community a shout so they can help me work out the bugs if they wish to do so.
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June 15, 2012, 04:28:04 PM
 #28

bump
malaimult
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June 16, 2012, 01:47:28 AM
 #29

put it up, let's go for a ride and will go from there.

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June 16, 2012, 04:41:27 AM
 #30

put it up, let's go for a ride and will go from there.

I agree if you got a good code base ready, release it with a beta tag on it and lets have fun.

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CIYAM
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June 16, 2012, 05:49:07 AM
 #31

One idea I was thinking about the other day with regards to reputation systems would be the idea of recording ratings and other information as micro transactions (with the numeric amounts actually being encoded information) in the block chain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87339.0).

The point being that then your DB doesn't need to be trusted/relied upon to hold rating (or other) information.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bombartier357
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June 16, 2012, 03:36:48 PM
 #32

One idea I was thinking about the other day with regards to reputation systems would be the idea of recording ratings and other information as micro transactions (with the numeric amounts actually being encoded information) in the block chain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87339.0).

The point being that then your DB doesn't need to be trusted/relied upon to hold rating (or other) information.


This is an interesting idea.  Do do how a proposed system for encoding this information?  I feel as if there could be limitations to this method of recording data.
Haplo
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June 16, 2012, 11:04:42 PM
 #33

One idea I was thinking about the other day with regards to reputation systems would be the idea of recording ratings and other information as micro transactions (with the numeric amounts actually being encoded information) in the block chain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87339.0).

The point being that then your DB doesn't need to be trusted/relied upon to hold rating (or other) information.


Personally I think that would be unnecessarily complex. The important thing is to make certain to keep all emails/passwords secure and in very limited (and trusted) hands. Also, creating a credit rating system that makes sense (unlike the crap used on the fraudulent world financial markets) would be a big step toward better lending reliability. If all borrowers are required to create an account, they could be tracked pretty easily and lenders can get a good idea of who is higher or lower risk.

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bombartier357
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June 17, 2012, 03:17:08 AM
 #34

One idea I was thinking about the other day with regards to reputation systems would be the idea of recording ratings and other information as micro transactions (with the numeric amounts actually being encoded information) in the block chain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87339.0).

The point being that then your DB doesn't need to be trusted/relied upon to hold rating (or other) information.


Personally I think that would be unnecessarily complex. The important thing is to make certain to keep all emails/passwords secure and in very limited (and trusted) hands. Also, creating a credit rating system that makes sense (unlike the crap used on the fraudulent world financial markets) would be a big step toward better lending reliability. If all borrowers are required to create an account, they could be tracked pretty easily and lenders can get a good idea of who is higher or lower risk.

Yes I agree 100%.  The only person that would have access to my server would be me.  I would of course disclose my identity for obvious reasons.

Do you have any experience with this type of security?  I would love some insight on the issue.  I have a few ideas, but I would rather not discuss them openly on the forum.  Feel free to shoot me a line.

kyle.emmet.austin@gmail.com
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June 17, 2012, 03:39:04 AM
 #35

Personally I think that would be unnecessarily complex.

Actually the system is really quite simple (but maybe I didn't express that so well in the other thread).

The point is that any trust system where the data is *privately* held automatically now has a fundamental weakness (this is after all why we like the fact that Bitcoin is the way it is).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bombartier357
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June 17, 2012, 06:43:37 AM
 #36

Personally I think that would be unnecessarily complex.

Actually the system is really quite simple (but maybe I didn't express that so well in the other thread).

The point is that any trust system where the data is *privately* held automatically now has a fundamental weakness (this is after all why we like the fact that Bitcoin is the way it is).


Yes I understand your concerns, but do you have a plan to solve this problem?  I cannot think of a way to add this to the block chain effectively.
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June 17, 2012, 08:03:44 AM
 #37

Yes I understand your concerns, but do you have a plan to solve this problem?  I cannot think of a way to add this to the block chain effectively.

The idea is to use specific addresses (owned by for example yourself) for receiving and sending ratings as two tx's. The first between the "rater" and yourself (which as explained in the other thread includes a CRC in the amount so where it is later sent can be verified) and the second between yourself and the "rated" party.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bombartier357
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June 17, 2012, 01:11:27 PM
 #38

What about tx fees?  Wouldn't that increase block chain size?
CIYAM
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June 17, 2012, 01:17:31 PM
 #39

What about tx fees?  Wouldn't that increase block chain size?

Of course tx fees need to be taken into account and there is always the issue of increasing the blockchain size (although I think Satoshi Dice has done more in that regards than this probably would initially).

I did propose that perhaps an alt-chain (maybe RTC = rate coins) could be something to consider.

For sure this is not going to be a trivial exercise but I do think that the benefit of a low (towards zero) trust mechanism has much more chance of widespread acceptance than any other method (and would be happy to contribute towards such an effort if others were interested to pursue it).

 

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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