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Author Topic: What happened to Bitcoins being anonymous?  (Read 4569 times)
TheBitMan
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June 11, 2012, 09:57:19 PM
 #1

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..
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Gavin Andresen
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June 11, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
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This is suppose to be all anonymous..
Where did you read that bitcoin is supposed to be anonymous?

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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June 11, 2012, 10:02:35 PM
 #3

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.
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June 11, 2012, 10:04:29 PM
 #4

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.

I am pretty sure that address is owned by the Jim Beam plant.  I mean JmB ... it is so obvious.
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June 11, 2012, 10:07:22 PM
 #5

A large amount of bitcoin's anonymity comes from the difficulty of linking a particular address to its owner (as proudhon demonstrated). Every transaction shows up in the blockchain since it's the only way to ensure sending addresses have those funds to begin with, but careful users may be able to avoid showing any connection with their addresses. This is partially why some wallets create a new address for each change output; it can be difficult to tell which is the real transaction and which is the change when both are going to new addresses.

TheBitMan
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June 11, 2012, 10:45:48 PM
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This is suppose to be all anonymous..
Where did you read that bitcoin is supposed to be anonymous?

I heard it somewhere lol
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June 11, 2012, 10:48:55 PM
 #7

psuedo-anonymous
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June 11, 2012, 10:49:40 PM
 #8

Once upon a time bitcoin.org called Bitcoin "anonymous" but that was a mistake, and for at least two years "we" (core developers) have tried to be careful to say that, at best, Bitcoin is pseudanonymous.

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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June 11, 2012, 10:57:22 PM
 #9

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

I think your logic is flawed!

Quote
Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use http://torstatus.blutmagie.de/ and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a list of all TOR relays in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Quote
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

all anonymous..

all anonymous..

all anonymous? nothing on the internet is really "anonymous", because you're always using addresses / nicknames (e.g. your IP address, Bitcoin address, etc. → pseudo-anonymous...)

Quote from: Wikipedia
Anonymity is derived from the Greek word ἀνωνυμία, anonymia, meaning "without a name" or "namelessness".
TheBitMan
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June 11, 2012, 11:13:16 PM
 #10

Once upon a time bitcoin.org called Bitcoin "anonymous" but that was a mistake, and for at least two years "we" (core developers) have tried to be careful to say that, at best, Bitcoin is pseudanonymous.

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

When you asked me where I saw it I went to bitcoin.org because that's where I thought it was from lol.
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June 11, 2012, 11:16:26 PM
 #11

it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Were you looking at something like- BlockChain.info's view of nodes?
 - http://blockchain.info/nodes-globe

The map data is based on information from the nodes that BlockChain.info's network is connected to.  it doesn't (and cannot) connect to all nodes so that data is no exact.  But if it does connect to your node, and you send out a transaction, it will list yours as the "first relayed by" node.  

If you do not want this, there are are ways to prevent this.  The secure method is to use Tor.  Another method is to simply have your client connect to a node (using -connect=n.n.n.n) that does not track "first relayed by" and relay through that node.

There are methods to protect your privacy as well.

There's also the possibility that from your transactions you can be identified.  That's how Goat got his 400 BTC payment back, after the community helped share information that showed where some coins came from (ended up being GLBSE).

There are attempts to automate this to discover information.  Here's one person using Bitcoin addresses posted in the forum to help link people to payments:
 - http://toolongdidntread.com/bitcoin/coming-soon-an-exposed-bitcoin-network/

So, there are ways that Bitcoin can be used anonymously.  By default, it is pseudonymous and traceable.

Raoul Duke
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June 11, 2012, 11:19:12 PM
 #12

This coming from a man that sells bitcoin for paypal.
Do you guys see the irony in it the same way i see it? Smiley

I really don't care much anymore about the anonymity of most of my bitcoin transactions, nor do I try to hide that I use Bitcoin on a daily basis.
I'll fight for my right to use it if I have to.

Bitcoin Oz
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June 11, 2012, 11:37:11 PM
 #13

Protip: Dont publish a bitcoin address on your facebook if you dont want to be tied to an address, or at least one address  Cheesy

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June 12, 2012, 12:17:02 AM
 #14

The ip addresses are the nodes that relayed the transaction. Usually this means it's not you but the first "server" someone else is running that's connected to you. I've never even seen my subnet come up for any transaction I've done. And I'm on static class b ip.

Ip6 will be virtually impossible to track. You can generate a new ip to go along with a new address at will.
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June 12, 2012, 02:27:41 AM
 #15

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.

It's a change address in a wallet belonging to DeepBit used for payouts to miners.  So you're right, transactions aren't very anonymous at all.  (Or was that not the point you were trying to make?)
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June 12, 2012, 02:49:54 AM
 #16

I thought it was pseudonymous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonymity

Steve
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June 12, 2012, 03:14:29 PM
 #17

It's important to keep in mind that Bitcoin could be completely de-anonymized if governments desired that.  They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.  If someone steals your identity, you simply go to the nearest government facility and provide them with a strand of hair and they revoke your old identity and generate a new one for you.  They can also require that the software maintain full records of the identities associated with every transaction and that it get upload every 5 seconds to some government agency.  They can enforce compliance with the removal of one digit after every offense and death after three offenses.  Comcast go down?  You failed to deliver your latest transaction data inside of 5 minutes?  Sorry, you lose a pinky finger.

Bottom line: it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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June 12, 2012, 03:40:35 PM
 #18

They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.

How?

Someone sent coins from one unknown address to another unknown address and the tx originated from a known public relay in a foreign country.  What do they do?  Nothing. 
aqrulesms
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June 12, 2012, 03:46:43 PM
 #19

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at.

That's one problem I can clearly identify with this system.  Therefore it's not wise to deal with illegal things since I'm certain it's still possible for the feds to track you down via the blockchain.

It's anonymous but not at the same time.



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Raoul Duke
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June 12, 2012, 03:49:21 PM
 #20

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at.

That's one problem I can clearly identify with this system.  Therefore it's not wise to deal with illegal things since I'm certain it's still possible for the feds to track you down via the blockchain.

It's anonymous but not at the same time.

For you to be able a certain transaction came from a certain IP address you'd need a node connected to ALL other nodes.
So far the only IP you know was the first one to relay it to you or to someone else, you can never be certain that IP was the one to send the transaction.
I send a lot of transactions and never saw my IP address connected to them in any way. Not that it would matter much as all I need is to restart my router to get a new one.

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