What happened to Bitcoins being anonymous?

[TheBitMan]

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

[1713447647]

1713447647

[1713447647]

1713447647

[1713447647]

1713447647

[Gavin Andresen]

This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Where did you read that bitcoin is supposed to be anonymous?

[proudhon]

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.

I am pretty sure that address is owned by the Jim Beam plant.  I mean JmB ... it is so obvious.

[austonst]

A large amount of bitcoin's anonymity comes from the difficulty of linking a particular address to its owner (as proudhon demonstrated). Every transaction shows up in the blockchain since it's the only way to ensure sending addresses have those funds to begin with, but careful users may be able to avoid showing any connection with their addresses. This is partially why some wallets create a new address for each change output; it can be difficult to tell which is the real transaction and which is the change when both are going to new addresses.

[TheBitMan]

This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Where did you read that bitcoin is supposed to be anonymous?

I heard it somewhere lol

[DeathAndTaxes]

psuedo-anonymous

[Gavin Andresen]

Once upon a time bitcoin.org called Bitcoin "anonymous" but that was a mistake, and for at least two years "we" (core developers) have tried to be careful to say that, at best, Bitcoin is pseudanonymous.

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

[chmod755]

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

I think your logic is flawed!

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use http://torstatus.blutmagie.de/ and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a list of all TOR relays in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

This is suppose to be all anonymous..

all anonymous..

all anonymous..

all anonymous? nothing on the internet is really "anonymous", because you're always using addresses / nicknames (e.g. your IP address, Bitcoin address, etc. → pseudo-anonymous...)

Anonymity is derived from the Greek word ἀνωνυμία, anonymia, meaning "without a name" or "namelessness".

[TheBitMan]

Once upon a time bitcoin.org called Bitcoin "anonymous" but that was a mistake, and for at least two years "we" (core developers) have tried to be careful to say that, at best, Bitcoin is pseudanonymous.

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

When you asked me where I saw it I went to bitcoin.org because that's where I thought it was from lol.

[Stephen Gornick]

it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Were you looking at something like- BlockChain.info's view of nodes?
 - http://blockchain.info/nodes-globe

The map data is based on information from the nodes that BlockChain.info's network is connected to.  it doesn't (and cannot) connect to all nodes so that data is no exact.  But if it does connect to your node, and you send out a transaction, it will list yours as the "first relayed by" node.  

If you do not want this, there are are ways to prevent this.  The secure method is to use Tor.  Another method is to simply have your client connect to a node (using -connect=n.n.n.n) that does not track "first relayed by" and relay through that node.

There are methods to protect your privacy as well.

There's also the possibility that from your transactions you can be identified.  That's how Goat got his 400 BTC payment back, after the community helped share information that showed where some coins came from (ended up being GLBSE).

There are attempts to automate this to discover information.  Here's one person using Bitcoin addresses posted in the forum to help link people to payments:
 - http://toolongdidntread.com/bitcoin/coming-soon-an-exposed-bitcoin-network/

So, there are ways that Bitcoin can be used anonymously.  By default, it is pseudonymous and traceable.

[Raoul Duke]

This coming from a man that sells bitcoin for paypal.
Do you guys see the irony in it the same way i see it?

I really don't care much anymore about the anonymity of most of my bitcoin transactions, nor do I try to hide that I use Bitcoin on a daily basis.
I'll fight for my right to use it if I have to.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Protip: Dont publish a bitcoin address on your facebook if you dont want to be tied to an address, or at least one address 

[Aseras]

The ip addresses are the nodes that relayed the transaction. Usually this means it's not you but the first "server" someone else is running that's connected to you. I've never even seen my subnet come up for any transaction I've done. And I'm on static class b ip.

Ip6 will be virtually impossible to track. You can generate a new ip to go along with a new address at will.

[twobitcoins]

You're right. We can see all the coins being sent from one address to another.  Now, looking at that information, tell me the identity of the person who owns 18pJmBTvjmcNGUR4CXtUMz5jZbU1KnSx7q.

It's a change address in a wallet belonging to DeepBit used for payouts to miners.  So you're right, transactions aren't very anonymous at all.  (Or was that not the point you were trying to make?)

[weex]

I thought it was pseudonymous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudonymity

[Steve]

It's important to keep in mind that Bitcoin could be completely de-anonymized if governments desired that.  They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.  If someone steals your identity, you simply go to the nearest government facility and provide them with a strand of hair and they revoke your old identity and generate a new one for you.  They can also require that the software maintain full records of the identities associated with every transaction and that it get upload every 5 seconds to some government agency.  They can enforce compliance with the removal of one digit after every offense and death after three offenses.  Comcast go down?  You failed to deliver your latest transaction data inside of 5 minutes?  Sorry, you lose a pinky finger.

Bottom line: it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.

[DeathAndTaxes]

They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.

How?

Someone sent coins from one unknown address to another unknown address and the tx originated from a known public relay in a foreign country.  What do they do?  Nothing. 

[aqrulesms]

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at.

That's one problem I can clearly identify with this system.  Therefore it's not wise to deal with illegal things since I'm certain it's still possible for the feds to track you down via the blockchain.

It's anonymous but not at the same time.

[Raoul Duke]

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at.

That's one problem I can clearly identify with this system.  Therefore it's not wise to deal with illegal things since I'm certain it's still possible for the feds to track you down via the blockchain.

It's anonymous but not at the same time.

For you to be able a certain transaction came from a certain IP address you'd need a node connected to ALL other nodes.
So far the only IP you know was the first one to relay it to you or to someone else, you can never be certain that IP was the one to send the transaction.
I send a lot of transactions and never saw my IP address connected to them in any way. Not that it would matter much as all I need is to restart my router to get a new one.

[TangibleCryptography]

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at

No you can't.  You can indentify the first node you saw the tx but that could be the originator or a node which relayed for the originator or a 20 nodes from the originator.

There is no requirement to even use a traditional node.  You could hand sign a tx offline and put it into a "tx dropbox" which is located on a tor server in a foreign country.

[randomproof]

There are ways of covering your tracks a little.  You could sent coins through services like online shared wallets or gambling sites which are basically big shared wallets.  Ideally, you would split up your coins through many different services.  The only problem is that some of these services may require a user account, but few need to actually ID you, just make sure you are using a public internet connection (like at libraries or coffee shops) to access the sites.  So my point is that if you really, really wanted to cover your tracks, you could, it just takes forethought and some work.

[Steve]

They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.

How?

Someone sent coins from one unknown address to another unknown address and the tx originated from a known public relay in a foreign country.  What do they do?  Nothing.  

You are missing the point.  What good is any of that when virtually no one accepts your anonymous transactions because they are compliant with a government that threatens their liberty or even life if they are non complaint.  It's not a technical issue.  Technically speaking, it's software and we can make it just about as anonymous as we want…or we can make it completely non anonymous.  As I said before, it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.  If we want financial transactions to be allowed to be private, then we must convince the majority of people to agree with that point of view and assert themselves when confronted by people or organizations that do not believe there should be any right to free and private financial transactions.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You are missing the point.  What good is any of that when virtually no one accepts your anonymous transactions because they are compliant with a government that threatens their liberty or even life if they are non complaint.  It's not a technical issue.  Technically speaking, it's software and we can make it just about as anonymous as we want…or we can make it completely non anonymous.  As I said before, it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.  If we want financial transactions to be allowed to be private, then we must convince the majority of people to agree we that point of view and assert themselves when confronted by people or organizations that do not believe there should be any right to free and private financial transactions.

1) There is no world govt.  So the US saying you need to do xyz has nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Miners in the rest of the world would still accept these "prohibited tx".  Merchants in the rest of the world would still value those coins.  Essentially the govt would be creating their own fork which is less valuable, more restrictive, and has higher costs with lower liquidity.  I am not exactly "worried" about that replacing Bitcoin.

2) How would the govt know?
An unconfirmed tx appears on the network.  Who is it to? Who is it from?

When we are facing a tyrannical single world govt with unlimited power, unchecked police authority power and suspension of all human right well you likely have a point.   Then again if we get there hopefully the "live-free " types have stocked up a lot of guns because the fork of Bitcoin known as "control coin" is likely the least of our problems.

[ErebusBat]

1) There is no world govt.  So the US saying you need to do xyz has nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Miners in the rest of the world would still accept these "prohibited tx".  Merchants in the rest of the world would still value those coins.  Essentially the govt would be creating their own fork which is less valuable, more restrictive, and has higher costs with lower liquidity.  I am not exactly "worried" about that replacing Bitcoin.

That sounds like EXACTLY something the US would do.

I think they would name it bernanke-coin

[thallium205]

It's not anonymous per se.  For example, Steve's donation signature has an address of '1NHDsGvmck79CmFj6e9bbJJZwvhWLhWwZQ'.  Using a little block chain magic, I can determine with 100% certainty that he also own these addresses:


==> | Node[16314325]{addr->"1BV8qQYTJVLKRCyvbDTk6X6AbVMoSwnENh"} |         
==> | Node[16314326]{addr->"125fL82nEWh3xX4bdtdYDFnzowkkNeWnoz"} |         
==> | Node[16470059]{addr->"1LBwwXxNwSVjAyGFdhAUzYxT2uHhr4ceu2"} |         
==> | Node[14261789]{addr->"16Mn9nWP9viaZhYBer6sBd7PbbtGNHcS91"} |         
==> | Node[14261790]{addr->"16UDn6MVbvPha9uCrUi6yfnsudxV2RgAgT"} |         
==> | Node[14261791]{addr->"1Mfdr9bBq8YNY82f5mGFNeqrrXjTBbkD37"} |         
==> | Node[14261792]{addr->"1FDcpBmipLnyMB928vSgh89fXUGz76jF7R"} |         
==> | Node[14261793]{addr->"1CU4teFSuWCW5c8JY2igRnXD1YG4ebVJ2w"} |         
==> | Node[14261794]{addr->"1J6WDvfAkZz37Ak1o5oRk9MKV42BysK4Fs"} |         
==> | Node[16108448]{addr->"1JnqCsVmR8eEgJow1Z1LqqSH3k8a5ZvrZ5"} |         
==> | Node[16108449]{addr->"19ojhgvtLJ3aLte4a2acSDRaagVgLTfJAe"} |         
==> | Node[16108450]{addr->"1HRWqSXSvdJn5UgCEJtUt2crh4MAY9gr6u"} |         
==> | Node[16218413]{addr->"19LmbkQye9NFE3NENouEg8SgFiyvtJ9vEK"} |         
==> | Node[16218414]{addr->"13RcdGtpMzCQLhU3xjyb9XwMdCn3KrMeS6"} |         
==> | Node[16218666]{addr->"1CkJK56u62pYY9bohY7RAJ9s4RChmq3uD7"} |         
==> | Node[16251262]{addr->"1JGqL56sFTMSkAbLGokBFecDwQuREhnUmQ"} |         
==> | Node[16251263]{addr->"1CSW1wYc1KkJmDLe8Cu5giQcbRXW418BeM"} |         
==> | Node[16251264]{addr->"1572yYS1hPC2Fv5krkANe1yX2dMnU68oTg"} |         
==> | Node[16401709]{addr->"1PX9pWr1GG98H1VLACtFfbsdrEb4tpy9H2"} |         
==> | Node[16401710]{addr->"1KgFnZYYhWunAMZAQ5xwc5hRxo1phj67xX"} |         
==> | Node[16401711]{addr->"1FxfGLCdFuxqD1kpYfqjumB87JJ3VMJbys"} |         
==> | Node[16401712]{addr->"12r5unpyDfNxvagzf4SMY9WpB9ifJZUTkc"} |         
==> | Node[14615764]{addr->"1JHZEwEvjbuTRnEL9yyov36nR4QLCgDUKz"} |         
==> | Node[14615765]{addr->"159igsYa7TUT6ZSN2kWmJCzXuFeeaDdbr5"} |         
==> | Node[15590750]{addr->"1MZT5hxr1PR9rEz1A8ipNcWz6Zo8qrSjzz"} |         
==> | Node[16023442]{addr->"1KCqHttZPoXSn4UzxCbGrGgPjzM8FAEBeY"} |         
==> | Node[16201837]{addr->"1225dYuckw6oP4pf4SohNNpaxSfb8uDFSp"} |         
==> | Node[14012220]{addr->"1GUJr6iByL76Ac58dgxnbBqKYcC8S1pUCL"} |         
==> | Node[14012221]{addr->"1QHm11N3skvJhBF97v6PtiKWgHHiMr3RmQ"} |         
==> | Node[14817692]{addr->"19ZGzNPsy7U8rtse1a1ZYDtJcazZuHm5XN"} |         
==> | Node[16023443]{addr->"19SHntpvCZM5aS3Uz6at7J2pPz9jzt9z8r"} |         
==> | Node[16043745]{addr->"17wJwDvMX1MC8vRA8vVUgEYN9HNtEskanC"} |         
==> | Node[16195263]{addr->"1DFt6mtGTQ2nFJvCBD9FxEH7eX9rNr8MEu"} |         
==> | Node[16195621]{addr->"16LGPVY7xUXGizzPaQPBXESC3xyRCvw5V9"} |         
==> | Node[16215965]{addr->"1PFHZ1c98Tqkmjbh9VG2rNWMqXnpvUwqpj"} |         
==> | Node[16307369]{addr->"1Kd9vT1ZJnrxo6bzgdYyKr1AZuuzeve7xp"} |         
==> | Node[16314324]{addr->"15jWt3L9SunvcaSfjyMGK7Q4so3j9sBYxc"} |         
==> | Node[16470058]{addr->"1NDbmFSg9WRYkPAjvLKTLqV1sgezn3gQeC"} |         
==> | Node[16087117]{addr->"1Fp8fRPiM7fodUPnR47yzz6zjbDuqvvUD1"} |         
==> | Node[16119079]{addr->"1BS7QUxda7XRFJm6DtYoScrw4CemNNYVa4"} |         
==> | Node[16174244]{addr->"1EXZaTaDtmXBABffazwk2SpbNULPqtjP8v"} |         
==> | Node[16359608]{addr->"1PWAWQvy9jRzGH78xZEvAcNrbCSSe5zBLN"} |         
==> | Node[14261788]{addr->"1BYksRrw6Y4SkmogrQBfgGecC5nwKHiBTq"} |         
==> | Node[15679241]{addr->"15ZwXzFgUkvSYyJMLE4qN1zMizMp7hpQcp"} |         
==> | Node[16108447]{addr->"1LENL1n1kwvb5fJTzge19th3Vx1QYdSGRr"} |         
==> | Node[16218412]{addr->"1HFnCMV3qg9cdw5SkHf6rgENz8hyAnjvqs"} |         
==> | Node[16218665]{addr->"1E93EqXLePwhTmg6Fxt6q7w5m9Z9Yo7h9G"} |         
==> | Node[16251261]{addr->"1AUXTyDrUdzuvBHu6yocA8D9QKSxW394XK"} |         
==> | Node[16401708]{addr->"1N1sLS64gdrFB5cjhiwQESsPHewymxwMgj"} |         
==> | Node[14615763]{addr->"1FyJsdoQSVsRpB7NPncRYpHkYiGVHhpRMQ"} |         
==> | Node[15590748]{addr->"16CgA71eaLYrcFXfTvEM6dBMGTbXSLWc14"} |         
==> | Node[16023441]{addr->"1J65km9YNjNLnsPyZa2JBqz1JhpCQRHGbq"} |         
==> | Node[16063561]{addr->"17tNnccUe6mvHuKcdtBXBJg4d7rEacCqPA"} |         
==> | Node[16039878]{addr->"1PiY8UfrvYpbDdGB59C9rGuSbMJf2Y2Hqd"} |         
==> | Node[14012224]{addr->"1KgVyeqWhhGV7VxSqjERSQdgDgtfrWCM1q"} |         
==> | Node[13285966]{addr->"1DotYxP8o4nZh1HXnjXcpGS4QcBiqQm9Y1"} |         
==> | Node[13285968]{addr->"15c3gwjK8V3YL6BA5ncPv9kvCBkqEM5zZu"} |         
==> | Node[13285969]{addr->"15cA4x3bHhLnyropd2e8Tf8A8xZGoJFbho"} |         
==> | Node[13285970]{addr->"13e8tpLNnX2shejygcPg7iuARXV7gSXSh4"} |         
==> | Node[13285971]{addr->"1Eg5Ufn3YqJMZCgrPr5zGfR6NpposuH2zg"} |         
==> | Node[13285972]{addr->"1L37mh1NhWkZ2Rq9en9FySt4BR2rqyYpbh"} |         
==> | Node[13285973]{addr->"1KA7LYoU9NPk48GEhzzXKGe4z61muj2kog"} |         
==> | Node[13285975]{addr->"1NvMGEWJGwJeejnB1Q7miyGNuC3YaX9yVr"} |         
==> | Node[13285976]{addr->"13L3sEwsbURJBygJRkKRU1amS5kV632U6C"} |         
==> | Node[14012219]{addr->"1HD1jNU73XbQiSYi7maVs1B5YS3of4Ch4h"} |         
==> | Node[14615766]{addr->"16kYyQooH6DtyhXFHi6mfRkG6QThwuWNu2"} |         
==> | Node[15590749]{addr->"1BexTYjSticxisuZGK7vDPPLchVxLLtWjJ"} |         
==> | Node[14303250]{addr->"17PkQw3D4xfSbv3pTQhBgVJPecE9cictUP"} |         
==> | Node[13285974]{addr->"12KMgreLfdUK6j4DknttvYyXNGzaVqZDaJ"} |         
==> | Node[13194994]{addr->"1HPcsTRfJEqyVZjVVmJ44Tns13Qt5AcyJJ"} |         
==> | Node[13285967]{addr->"1GZYxqRfXRAW7qHUQqbdHeDiMqwFjNtvmg"} |         
==> | Node[13227793]{addr->"1JgyCHnqBZmHwAkRRnMRehdXYLZSTiT7MD"} |         
==> | Node[13285965]{addr->"1BbR3UpQdQTTnoRvKY7xM3WP7RYe41Z3Ua"} |         
==> | Node[13459529]{addr->"1Ku4P5DD26oEfKiFp4CFgzggsWzpHxRfDZ"} |         
==> | Node[14012223]{addr->"18vtqeD7nQAwZEQkCoutXWnn1nRr7VgsnM"} |         
==> | Node[13194385]{addr->"1K6fuhB78qoyXaQNypaGSnyvmGU5DXvyfC"} |         

There are many other things I can determine about our friend Steve here, but this is a simple example of the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin.

[ErebusBat]

It's not anonymous per se.  For example, Steve's donation signature has an address of '1NHDsGvmck79CmFj6e9bbJJZwvhWLhWwZQ'.  Using a little block chain magic, I can determine with 100% certainty that he also own these addresses:
<snip>
There are many other things I can determine about our friend Steve here, but this is an example of merely the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin.

Did you do that by hand thallium205, or do you have a script?

[thallium205]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

[Raoul Duke]

So, what can you tell me about myself? lol
Now you got me curious
I can tell you from the start that I make no effort on hiding anything, so you can probably find a lot.

[ErebusBat]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

Confirmed... those are all mine.

I would love to sub to that script... anywhere I can follow the dev process?  What language/platform?

[TangibleCryptography]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

[ErebusBat]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

True.... this is all a very good example of how BTC are not private....

Also had he wanted to it would be very easy to see the following things with the knowledge posted above:

• I occasionally play SatoshiDICE (and obviously HOW I bet and in what amounts)
• I always use the same address, which would indicate a certain level of organization
• The amount of money that has moved through those wallets

All because I put an address in my signature because someone might send me some satoshi's (ya right).

[Raoul Duke]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

Did you ever play SatoshiDice?
I was just thinking right now that SatoshiDice is the biggest address de-anonymizer that exists today
And ErebusBat just posted about it right when I was writing this post lol

[thallium205]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

Confirmed... those are all mine.

I would love to sub to that script... anywhere I can follow the dev process?  What language/platform?

I am not quite yet ready to open it up to active development, though my timeline is about 2 weeks from today.  I'm writing this visualization tool with the hopes that this method becomes less effective by educating people how important good bitcoin practices are (if you want to remain anonymous).  Remember, just because block chain analysis can't explicitly identify you, they can still implicitly identify you based upon who is sending you money and where you are sending money to...

[Raize]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

[proudhon]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

[ThiagoCMC]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

All of this will improve the Bitcoin Economy as a whole.

[rjk]

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

[Steve]

Well, that's pretty good, but not quite there…of the 76 you listed, I control 22.  Still it's quite interesting.

I think 100% certainty is a bit strong (obviously).  For example, do you really know that I control the address in my signature?  What if some of the keys to some of the addresses were given away others?  I think you'd have to have some kind of proof that someone sent a transaction in order to prove that they owned the address(es) associated with the inputs.

If you can build up a database of people and addresses that you're pretty sure they control, you may be able to infer some things with high, but not absolute, confidence.  Maybe you want to have a confidence factor…for example, if someone was in your presence and sent you coins, you'd know with almost certainty that they control the input addresses and the change address…assuming of course they are using a standard client that uses known behavior and not sending from some shared wallet or routing through a mixing service.  However, if someone just listed an address in the signature, you'd still have high confidence they own it, but maybe 90% instead of 99%.  Other sleuthing methods might yield associations with even lower degrees of confidence.  

But if you had this database and came access some new address, you could infer where that address intersects with addresses in your database.  You wouldn't know that it was all one person that is responsible for those intersecting transactions, but you could at least say some coins flowed from that address to some addresses with which you have some degree of belief that you know who owns them.

[ErebusBat]

[thallium205]

Steve, if I may ask, could you give me an address in that list that you do not own?  Also, did you ever receive 25 BTC from 'Bitcoineruk' or 35 BTC from 'Luke-Jr'?  

You may be surprised to know that the addresses that you think were not identified correctly are almost assuredly yours... But I would be very interested to know if some of them had no relationship to you. 

EDIT: removed the sending values...

[TangibleCryptography]

Steve, if I may ask, could you give me an address in that list that you do not own?

Ackbar says NO!

[Raoul Duke]

Steve, are you sure the addresses you say you don't control aren't just change addresses that you're not seeing on the interface, but still yours?

[thallium205]

Steve, are you sure the addresses you say you don't control aren't just change addresses that you're not seeing on the interface, but still yours?

^ this

[Steve]

Steve, are you sure the addresses you say you don't control aren't just change addresses that you're not seeing on the interface, but still yours?

I'm sure.  I checked against all addresses, even the change…I certainly didn't go through all of these addresses by hand, I dumped them using RPC and checked the list against that.

Steve, if I may ask, could you give me an address in that list that you do not own?

Well, considering your inclination to post your findings in such a public place, no.  But, I am glad you're trying to determine just exactly what kind of analysis is possible.  Wouldn't the gap be explained simply by the fact that there are people I transact with that no one on these forums would even know exists?

[Raoul Duke]

He will make something worse than posting such findings in a public place. No point on helping him to fine tune his script. Ofcourse you can be lying to him just to make him think his script has a problem lol

[Maged]

Steve, are you sure the addresses you say you don't control aren't just change addresses that you're not seeing on the interface, but still yours?

I'm sure.  I checked against all addresses, even the change…I certainly didn't go through all of these addresses by hand, I dumped them using RPC and checked the list against that.

The RPC doesn't return the change addresses 

[Raoul Duke]

Steve, are you sure the addresses you say you don't control aren't just change addresses that you're not seeing on the interface, but still yours?

I'm sure.  I checked against all addresses, even the change…I certainly didn't go through all of these addresses by hand, I dumped them using RPC and checked the list against that.

The RPC doesn't return the change addresses 

Ah! You nailed it!
A pywallet wallet dump would show them, tho.

[Stardust]

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

At least you don't leave your fingerprints, DNA, and traces food and germs you ate on bitcoins. Add to that surveillance cameras and dogs. Now that I think of it cash is quite icky.

[ErebusBat]

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

At least you don't leave your fingerprints, DNA, and traces food and germs you ate on bitcoins. Add to that surveillance cameras and dogs. Now that I think of it cash is quite icky.

Don't forget blow..... I was told once that something like 90% of $20 bills would test positive for cocaine.

[Raoul Duke]

I tell reporters that Bitcoin is more private than using any other online payment method, but less private than cash (unless you know a lot about how it works under the covers and jump through several hoops to keep your identity secret).

At least you don't leave your fingerprints, DNA, and traces food and germs you ate on bitcoins. Add to that surveillance cameras and dogs. Now that I think of it cash is quite icky.

Don't forget blow..... I was told once that something like 90% of $20 bills would test positive for cocaine.

And don't forget hookers. I was told once that hookers are always paid with cash

[Steve]

I'm going to assume they're change addresses (no time to mess with pywallet).  I didn't realize RPC doesn't list all of them…though curiously it lists more than in the UI).

I presume you're just doing a simple analysis that looks at all transactions where that address is an input and gathers all the other input address from those transactions.  That got me thinking…how would you make that more private?  Maybe you could devise a "sprinkling service" …you could craft a transaction that sent coins to wherever and then send it to the service…the service would add some additional inputs and output ...basically moving some additional coins between some wallets that the service owns.  The service could require that some coins be offered as a fee.  There's probably some way of making that work with p2sh such that the service never has access to the coins being sent.  With something like that, you could no longer assume that all the inputs of a transaction originate from the same wallet (you can't really assume that now, but I imagine nearly all transactions are like that today).

[Stephen Gornick]

I am not quite yet ready to open it up to active development, though my timeline is about 2 weeks from today.  

Good. the allinvain thief, mybitcoin theif, bitcoin7 thief, bitcoinica feb 2012 thief, bitcoinica (linode) thief, bitcoinica (rackspace) thief, etc., should all be shaking in their boots by now.

[ErebusBat]

I am not quite yet ready to open it up to active development, though my timeline is about 2 weeks from today.  

Good. the allinvain thief, mybitcoin theif, bitcoin7 thief, bitcoinica feb 2012 thief, bitcoinica (linode) thief, bitcoinica (rackspace) thief, etc., should all be shaking in their boots by now.

Hrm... I might see a pattern already...

[ludo0777]

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

You can see all the transactions but you don't know who owns each address

[ErebusBat]

Correct me if I am wrong but I barely use blockchain and I was taking a look at it and it shows you a map of all the coins being sent in the world.
This is suppose to be all anonymous..

Also what you are seeing is the TX being relayed which isn't necessarily the IP/location of the sender.

[RodeoX]

I use the term "private". Anonymous sounds like you have something to hide, private sounds like you have the right to hide something.