What happened to Bitcoins being anonymous?

[TangibleCryptography]

You can trace the IP address identified with the address being sent to.. and therefore narrow down on the location the person is at

No you can't.  You can indentify the first node you saw the tx but that could be the originator or a node which relayed for the originator or a 20 nodes from the originator.

There is no requirement to even use a traditional node.  You could hand sign a tx offline and put it into a "tx dropbox" which is located on a tor server in a foreign country.

[1713918682]

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[randomproof]

There are ways of covering your tracks a little.  You could sent coins through services like online shared wallets or gambling sites which are basically big shared wallets.  Ideally, you would split up your coins through many different services.  The only problem is that some of these services may require a user account, but few need to actually ID you, just make sure you are using a public internet connection (like at libraries or coffee shops) to access the sites.  So my point is that if you really, really wanted to cover your tracks, you could, it just takes forethought and some work.

[Steve]

They could require that all bitcoin transactions be accompanied by a signature using a government issued identity linked to your DNA.

How?

Someone sent coins from one unknown address to another unknown address and the tx originated from a known public relay in a foreign country.  What do they do?  Nothing.  

You are missing the point.  What good is any of that when virtually no one accepts your anonymous transactions because they are compliant with a government that threatens their liberty or even life if they are non complaint.  It's not a technical issue.  Technically speaking, it's software and we can make it just about as anonymous as we want…or we can make it completely non anonymous.  As I said before, it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.  If we want financial transactions to be allowed to be private, then we must convince the majority of people to agree with that point of view and assert themselves when confronted by people or organizations that do not believe there should be any right to free and private financial transactions.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You are missing the point.  What good is any of that when virtually no one accepts your anonymous transactions because they are compliant with a government that threatens their liberty or even life if they are non complaint.  It's not a technical issue.  Technically speaking, it's software and we can make it just about as anonymous as we want…or we can make it completely non anonymous.  As I said before, it's up to people to decide the level of privacy afforded to our financial transactions.  If we want financial transactions to be allowed to be private, then we must convince the majority of people to agree we that point of view and assert themselves when confronted by people or organizations that do not believe there should be any right to free and private financial transactions.

1) There is no world govt.  So the US saying you need to do xyz has nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Miners in the rest of the world would still accept these "prohibited tx".  Merchants in the rest of the world would still value those coins.  Essentially the govt would be creating their own fork which is less valuable, more restrictive, and has higher costs with lower liquidity.  I am not exactly "worried" about that replacing Bitcoin.

2) How would the govt know?
An unconfirmed tx appears on the network.  Who is it to? Who is it from?

When we are facing a tyrannical single world govt with unlimited power, unchecked police authority power and suspension of all human right well you likely have a point.   Then again if we get there hopefully the "live-free " types have stocked up a lot of guns because the fork of Bitcoin known as "control coin" is likely the least of our problems.

[ErebusBat]

1) There is no world govt.  So the US saying you need to do xyz has nothing to do with the rest of the world.  Miners in the rest of the world would still accept these "prohibited tx".  Merchants in the rest of the world would still value those coins.  Essentially the govt would be creating their own fork which is less valuable, more restrictive, and has higher costs with lower liquidity.  I am not exactly "worried" about that replacing Bitcoin.

That sounds like EXACTLY something the US would do.

I think they would name it bernanke-coin

[thallium205]

It's not anonymous per se.  For example, Steve's donation signature has an address of '1NHDsGvmck79CmFj6e9bbJJZwvhWLhWwZQ'.  Using a little block chain magic, I can determine with 100% certainty that he also own these addresses:


==> | Node[16314325]{addr->"1BV8qQYTJVLKRCyvbDTk6X6AbVMoSwnENh"} |         
==> | Node[16314326]{addr->"125fL82nEWh3xX4bdtdYDFnzowkkNeWnoz"} |         
==> | Node[16470059]{addr->"1LBwwXxNwSVjAyGFdhAUzYxT2uHhr4ceu2"} |         
==> | Node[14261789]{addr->"16Mn9nWP9viaZhYBer6sBd7PbbtGNHcS91"} |         
==> | Node[14261790]{addr->"16UDn6MVbvPha9uCrUi6yfnsudxV2RgAgT"} |         
==> | Node[14261791]{addr->"1Mfdr9bBq8YNY82f5mGFNeqrrXjTBbkD37"} |         
==> | Node[14261792]{addr->"1FDcpBmipLnyMB928vSgh89fXUGz76jF7R"} |         
==> | Node[14261793]{addr->"1CU4teFSuWCW5c8JY2igRnXD1YG4ebVJ2w"} |         
==> | Node[14261794]{addr->"1J6WDvfAkZz37Ak1o5oRk9MKV42BysK4Fs"} |         
==> | Node[16108448]{addr->"1JnqCsVmR8eEgJow1Z1LqqSH3k8a5ZvrZ5"} |         
==> | Node[16108449]{addr->"19ojhgvtLJ3aLte4a2acSDRaagVgLTfJAe"} |         
==> | Node[16108450]{addr->"1HRWqSXSvdJn5UgCEJtUt2crh4MAY9gr6u"} |         
==> | Node[16218413]{addr->"19LmbkQye9NFE3NENouEg8SgFiyvtJ9vEK"} |         
==> | Node[16218414]{addr->"13RcdGtpMzCQLhU3xjyb9XwMdCn3KrMeS6"} |         
==> | Node[16218666]{addr->"1CkJK56u62pYY9bohY7RAJ9s4RChmq3uD7"} |         
==> | Node[16251262]{addr->"1JGqL56sFTMSkAbLGokBFecDwQuREhnUmQ"} |         
==> | Node[16251263]{addr->"1CSW1wYc1KkJmDLe8Cu5giQcbRXW418BeM"} |         
==> | Node[16251264]{addr->"1572yYS1hPC2Fv5krkANe1yX2dMnU68oTg"} |         
==> | Node[16401709]{addr->"1PX9pWr1GG98H1VLACtFfbsdrEb4tpy9H2"} |         
==> | Node[16401710]{addr->"1KgFnZYYhWunAMZAQ5xwc5hRxo1phj67xX"} |         
==> | Node[16401711]{addr->"1FxfGLCdFuxqD1kpYfqjumB87JJ3VMJbys"} |         
==> | Node[16401712]{addr->"12r5unpyDfNxvagzf4SMY9WpB9ifJZUTkc"} |         
==> | Node[14615764]{addr->"1JHZEwEvjbuTRnEL9yyov36nR4QLCgDUKz"} |         
==> | Node[14615765]{addr->"159igsYa7TUT6ZSN2kWmJCzXuFeeaDdbr5"} |         
==> | Node[15590750]{addr->"1MZT5hxr1PR9rEz1A8ipNcWz6Zo8qrSjzz"} |         
==> | Node[16023442]{addr->"1KCqHttZPoXSn4UzxCbGrGgPjzM8FAEBeY"} |         
==> | Node[16201837]{addr->"1225dYuckw6oP4pf4SohNNpaxSfb8uDFSp"} |         
==> | Node[14012220]{addr->"1GUJr6iByL76Ac58dgxnbBqKYcC8S1pUCL"} |         
==> | Node[14012221]{addr->"1QHm11N3skvJhBF97v6PtiKWgHHiMr3RmQ"} |         
==> | Node[14817692]{addr->"19ZGzNPsy7U8rtse1a1ZYDtJcazZuHm5XN"} |         
==> | Node[16023443]{addr->"19SHntpvCZM5aS3Uz6at7J2pPz9jzt9z8r"} |         
==> | Node[16043745]{addr->"17wJwDvMX1MC8vRA8vVUgEYN9HNtEskanC"} |         
==> | Node[16195263]{addr->"1DFt6mtGTQ2nFJvCBD9FxEH7eX9rNr8MEu"} |         
==> | Node[16195621]{addr->"16LGPVY7xUXGizzPaQPBXESC3xyRCvw5V9"} |         
==> | Node[16215965]{addr->"1PFHZ1c98Tqkmjbh9VG2rNWMqXnpvUwqpj"} |         
==> | Node[16307369]{addr->"1Kd9vT1ZJnrxo6bzgdYyKr1AZuuzeve7xp"} |         
==> | Node[16314324]{addr->"15jWt3L9SunvcaSfjyMGK7Q4so3j9sBYxc"} |         
==> | Node[16470058]{addr->"1NDbmFSg9WRYkPAjvLKTLqV1sgezn3gQeC"} |         
==> | Node[16087117]{addr->"1Fp8fRPiM7fodUPnR47yzz6zjbDuqvvUD1"} |         
==> | Node[16119079]{addr->"1BS7QUxda7XRFJm6DtYoScrw4CemNNYVa4"} |         
==> | Node[16174244]{addr->"1EXZaTaDtmXBABffazwk2SpbNULPqtjP8v"} |         
==> | Node[16359608]{addr->"1PWAWQvy9jRzGH78xZEvAcNrbCSSe5zBLN"} |         
==> | Node[14261788]{addr->"1BYksRrw6Y4SkmogrQBfgGecC5nwKHiBTq"} |         
==> | Node[15679241]{addr->"15ZwXzFgUkvSYyJMLE4qN1zMizMp7hpQcp"} |         
==> | Node[16108447]{addr->"1LENL1n1kwvb5fJTzge19th3Vx1QYdSGRr"} |         
==> | Node[16218412]{addr->"1HFnCMV3qg9cdw5SkHf6rgENz8hyAnjvqs"} |         
==> | Node[16218665]{addr->"1E93EqXLePwhTmg6Fxt6q7w5m9Z9Yo7h9G"} |         
==> | Node[16251261]{addr->"1AUXTyDrUdzuvBHu6yocA8D9QKSxW394XK"} |         
==> | Node[16401708]{addr->"1N1sLS64gdrFB5cjhiwQESsPHewymxwMgj"} |         
==> | Node[14615763]{addr->"1FyJsdoQSVsRpB7NPncRYpHkYiGVHhpRMQ"} |         
==> | Node[15590748]{addr->"16CgA71eaLYrcFXfTvEM6dBMGTbXSLWc14"} |         
==> | Node[16023441]{addr->"1J65km9YNjNLnsPyZa2JBqz1JhpCQRHGbq"} |         
==> | Node[16063561]{addr->"17tNnccUe6mvHuKcdtBXBJg4d7rEacCqPA"} |         
==> | Node[16039878]{addr->"1PiY8UfrvYpbDdGB59C9rGuSbMJf2Y2Hqd"} |         
==> | Node[14012224]{addr->"1KgVyeqWhhGV7VxSqjERSQdgDgtfrWCM1q"} |         
==> | Node[13285966]{addr->"1DotYxP8o4nZh1HXnjXcpGS4QcBiqQm9Y1"} |         
==> | Node[13285968]{addr->"15c3gwjK8V3YL6BA5ncPv9kvCBkqEM5zZu"} |         
==> | Node[13285969]{addr->"15cA4x3bHhLnyropd2e8Tf8A8xZGoJFbho"} |         
==> | Node[13285970]{addr->"13e8tpLNnX2shejygcPg7iuARXV7gSXSh4"} |         
==> | Node[13285971]{addr->"1Eg5Ufn3YqJMZCgrPr5zGfR6NpposuH2zg"} |         
==> | Node[13285972]{addr->"1L37mh1NhWkZ2Rq9en9FySt4BR2rqyYpbh"} |         
==> | Node[13285973]{addr->"1KA7LYoU9NPk48GEhzzXKGe4z61muj2kog"} |         
==> | Node[13285975]{addr->"1NvMGEWJGwJeejnB1Q7miyGNuC3YaX9yVr"} |         
==> | Node[13285976]{addr->"13L3sEwsbURJBygJRkKRU1amS5kV632U6C"} |         
==> | Node[14012219]{addr->"1HD1jNU73XbQiSYi7maVs1B5YS3of4Ch4h"} |         
==> | Node[14615766]{addr->"16kYyQooH6DtyhXFHi6mfRkG6QThwuWNu2"} |         
==> | Node[15590749]{addr->"1BexTYjSticxisuZGK7vDPPLchVxLLtWjJ"} |         
==> | Node[14303250]{addr->"17PkQw3D4xfSbv3pTQhBgVJPecE9cictUP"} |         
==> | Node[13285974]{addr->"12KMgreLfdUK6j4DknttvYyXNGzaVqZDaJ"} |         
==> | Node[13194994]{addr->"1HPcsTRfJEqyVZjVVmJ44Tns13Qt5AcyJJ"} |         
==> | Node[13285967]{addr->"1GZYxqRfXRAW7qHUQqbdHeDiMqwFjNtvmg"} |         
==> | Node[13227793]{addr->"1JgyCHnqBZmHwAkRRnMRehdXYLZSTiT7MD"} |         
==> | Node[13285965]{addr->"1BbR3UpQdQTTnoRvKY7xM3WP7RYe41Z3Ua"} |         
==> | Node[13459529]{addr->"1Ku4P5DD26oEfKiFp4CFgzggsWzpHxRfDZ"} |         
==> | Node[14012223]{addr->"18vtqeD7nQAwZEQkCoutXWnn1nRr7VgsnM"} |         
==> | Node[13194385]{addr->"1K6fuhB78qoyXaQNypaGSnyvmGU5DXvyfC"} |         

There are many other things I can determine about our friend Steve here, but this is a simple example of the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin.

[ErebusBat]

It's not anonymous per se.  For example, Steve's donation signature has an address of '1NHDsGvmck79CmFj6e9bbJJZwvhWLhWwZQ'.  Using a little block chain magic, I can determine with 100% certainty that he also own these addresses:
<snip>
There are many other things I can determine about our friend Steve here, but this is an example of merely the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin.

Did you do that by hand thallium205, or do you have a script?

[thallium205]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

[Raoul Duke]

So, what can you tell me about myself? lol
Now you got me curious
I can tell you from the start that I make no effort on hiding anything, so you can probably find a lot.

[ErebusBat]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

Confirmed... those are all mine.

I would love to sub to that script... anywhere I can follow the dev process?  What language/platform?

[TangibleCryptography]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

[ErebusBat]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

True.... this is all a very good example of how BTC are not private....

Also had he wanted to it would be very easy to see the following things with the knowledge posted above:

• I occasionally play SatoshiDICE (and obviously HOW I bet and in what amounts)
• I always use the same address, which would indicate a certain level of organization
• The amount of money that has moved through those wallets

All because I put an address in my signature because someone might send me some satoshi's (ya right).

[Raoul Duke]

Which is one reason I often employ single use addresses, keep some "daily cash" in shared wallets and ensure large tx are private.

Did you ever play SatoshiDice?
I was just thinking right now that SatoshiDice is the biggest address de-anonymizer that exists today
And ErebusBat just posted about it right when I was writing this post lol

[thallium205]

It's a script and a visualization tool I am developing for the community.  I hope for it to be ready soon.  ErebusBat, I know with 100% certainty that you own the addresses:

==> | Node[16381401]{addr->"14rsxwZHGV2F2x1fEoVZe7Lji3eTJUrXta"} |
==> | Node[16382476]{addr->"15mCE5te79DG1uonzvN2ghkmw1zgummcDy"} |
==> | Node[16227737]{addr->"18qPnt1ajzP143znAScMmAcV4mLgxBoUt6"} |
==> | Node[16227736]{addr->"1JqpTwfcGSGzgLyeTfWfsmVVo8D7XYmvdX"} |

I also know, just for an example, that you have sent money to the user 'evoorhees' here on the forums for .06814 BTC...

Confirmed... those are all mine.

I would love to sub to that script... anywhere I can follow the dev process?  What language/platform?

I am not quite yet ready to open it up to active development, though my timeline is about 2 weeks from today.  I'm writing this visualization tool with the hopes that this method becomes less effective by educating people how important good bitcoin practices are (if you want to remain anonymous).  Remember, just because block chain analysis can't explicitly identify you, they can still implicitly identify you based upon who is sending you money and where you are sending money to...

[Raize]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

[proudhon]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

[ThiagoCMC]

thallium,
This is interesting, I've been doing something similar with building a few tables of forum users and their IP addresses, as well as a blockchain watcher, but you seemed to fix an accuracy issue I was having with yours. I'd definitely be interested in the final product when you are done with it, if you eventually do open source or donations or sell it, PM me.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

All of this will improve the Bitcoin Economy as a whole.

[rjk]

Dammit, now I'm going to have to get behind like 8 proxies, send my bitcoins to various exchanges, then send them back to new offline wallets in weird amounts.

[Steve]

Well, that's pretty good, but not quite there…of the 76 you listed, I control 22.  Still it's quite interesting.

I think 100% certainty is a bit strong (obviously).  For example, do you really know that I control the address in my signature?  What if some of the keys to some of the addresses were given away others?  I think you'd have to have some kind of proof that someone sent a transaction in order to prove that they owned the address(es) associated with the inputs.

If you can build up a database of people and addresses that you're pretty sure they control, you may be able to infer some things with high, but not absolute, confidence.  Maybe you want to have a confidence factor…for example, if someone was in your presence and sent you coins, you'd know with almost certainty that they control the input addresses and the change address…assuming of course they are using a standard client that uses known behavior and not sending from some shared wallet or routing through a mixing service.  However, if someone just listed an address in the signature, you'd still have high confidence they own it, but maybe 90% instead of 99%.  Other sleuthing methods might yield associations with even lower degrees of confidence.  

But if you had this database and came access some new address, you could infer where that address intersects with addresses in your database.  You wouldn't know that it was all one person that is responsible for those intersecting transactions, but you could at least say some coins flowed from that address to some addresses with which you have some degree of belief that you know who owns them.

[ErebusBat]