Bitcoin Forum
June 18, 2018, 06:11:38 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Donating to the Zimmerman Defense Fund  (Read 8333 times)
check_status
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 03:08:31 AM
 #1

I would like to Donate some Bitcoins to the www.gzdefensefund.com but they only accept Paypal. There is no Email address to ask them to accept Bitcoins so what can I do about it?

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
The World's Betting Exchange

Bet with play money. Win real Bitcoin. 5BTC Prize Fund for World Cup 2018.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
1529302298
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1529302298

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1529302298
Reply with quote  #2

1529302298
Report to moderator
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 03:18:37 AM
 #2

...

(facepalm)

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
repentance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840
Merit: 1000


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 03:26:24 AM
 #3

Might not be the best idea given that the Zimmermans lied in court about how much was in the PayPal fund in order to get his bond reduced.  Bitcoin could do without being thought of as the means by which Zimmerman was able to flee the country.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 03:29:40 AM
 #4

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven
BadBear
v2.0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1005



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 03:48:29 AM
 #5

I'll pass, thanks.

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:02:50 AM
 #6

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
check_status
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:06:18 AM
 #7

Might not be the best idea given that the Zimmermans lied in court about how much was in the PayPal fund in order to get his bond reduced.  Bitcoin could do without being thought of as the means by which Zimmerman was able to flee the country.
Wife lied, GZ was not in a position to know. Fleeing the country, convicted of a pre-crime, brilliant. So Bitcoin would enable criminality, but Cash or Paypal won't.  Roll Eyes


So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?
He did not lie about money at all, his wife did. You've convicted already, brilliant! I know 16 year olds with more bodies than most war veterans. Yes I want to give him money, the state has unlimited resources and being poor limits your ability to a good defense.

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 04:09:30 AM
 #8

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.


If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
check_status
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:15:20 AM
 #9

If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

Glad this worked for you. I'll definitely think about buying this after I donate to GZ.


For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:19:33 AM
 #10

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.


If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

That isn't what happened.  Zimmerman was walking away and Martin approached him from behind before violently breaking his nose and slamming his head into the concrete multiple times while Zimmerman screamed.  

Even if your version was true, I disagree that "of course" you should fight in that situation.  Do you know what happens when you bring your fists to a gun fight?

Well, it worked out for Martin like that usually will.  It's a much better bet to run away, hide, and call the police.  If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea.  Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
check_status
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:32:17 AM
 #11

Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.
People will find reasons to kill each other whether drugs and guns are available or not.

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
LightRider
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1499
Merit: 1000


I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 04:32:45 AM
 #12

You could nominate it for the Bitcoin100. It would most assuredly be rejected though.

Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.

The distorted values and aberrant behavior caused by a sick society built on the foundations of a false authority and imaginary economy allow these episodes to occur.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 04:34:29 AM
 #13

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.


If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

That isn't what happened.  Zimmerman was walking away and Martin approached him from behind before violently breaking his nose and slamming his head into the concrete multiple times while Zimmerman screamed.  

Even if your version was true, I disagree that "of course" you should fight in that situation.  Do you know what happens when you bring your fists to a gun fight?

Well, it worked out for Martin like that usually will.  It's a much better bet to run away, hide, and call the police.  If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea.  Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.


Transcript of 911 call

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Clearly says that Trayvon ran away and he was chasing ...

EDIT:
Quote
If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea.  Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.
Now if you go with a few drinks and ends with a shot in the chest just to deal with an aggressor, is your fault for drinking? No sir, no alcohol or  guns, is a man who shoots and kills him.

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 04:45:02 AM
 #14

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.


If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

That isn't what happened.  Zimmerman was walking away and Martin approached him from behind before violently breaking his nose and slamming his head into the concrete multiple times while Zimmerman screamed.  

Even if your version was true, I disagree that "of course" you should fight in that situation.  Do you know what happens when you bring your fists to a gun fight?

Well, it worked out for Martin like that usually will.  It's a much better bet to run away, hide, and call the police.  If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea.  Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.


Transcript of 911 call

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Clearly says that Trayvon ran away and he was chasing ...

You can hear him stop running before he hangs up.  He was walking back to meet the police.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 05:04:11 AM
 #15

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.


If you're walking down the street at night and this guy begins to haunt you without any reason, and possibly showing a gun, of course you defend, Trayvon acted in self defense and was killed ...

That isn't what happened.  Zimmerman was walking away and Martin approached him from behind before violently breaking his nose and slamming his head into the concrete multiple times while Zimmerman screamed.  

Even if your version was true, I disagree that "of course" you should fight in that situation.  Do you know what happens when you bring your fists to a gun fight?

Well, it worked out for Martin like that usually will.  It's a much better bet to run away, hide, and call the police.  If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea.  Drugs and guns caused this tragedy, and it's just another example of why people should not be allowed to have access to them.


Transcript of 911 call

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Clearly says that Trayvon ran away and he was chasing ...

You can hear him stop running before he hangs up.  He was walking back to meet the police.

What happens when the call ends is not clear, what is clear is that from the beginning the only one with an attitude threatening and harassing and clear position of superiority is Zimmerman

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 05:08:25 AM
 #16

I will not continue posting here, it makes me angry and this is not a chat. Is a Bitcoin forum and is the only thing I want to read here
I never should have started

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:14:15 AM
 #17

What is clear from the call is that he is scared Martin might be planning to rob houses, was on drugs (he was right), and was approaching his car with something in his hands (Zimemrman clearly thought he was armed.)

Zimmerman was afraid of Martin, the only reason he followed after him to guide the police was the false sense of security brought on by having a firearm in his possession.  When the 9/11 operator tells him he doesn't have to follow, he says okay, and it is clear he has stopped running as he continues to talk without sounds of footsteps or heavy breathing and he makes it clear he doesn't even see Martin anymore, which is an obvious sign he wasn't following him at the time.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
sharky112065
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 382
Merit: 250



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:21:51 AM
 #18

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

911 operator:

"Are you following him?"

Zimmerman:

"Yeah."

911 Operator:

"OK, we don't need you to do that."

He was told not to pursue him thus he should be charged with and convicted of Murder.

Donations welcome: 12KaKtrK52iQjPdtsJq7fJ7smC32tXWbWr
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:40:21 AM
 #19

Let the court decide whether or not the he's guilty. Everything else is just mad and wild speculation.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:50:26 AM
 #20

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

911 operator:

"Are you following him?"

Zimmerman:

"Yeah."

911 Operator:

"OK, we don't need you to do that."

He was told not to pursue him thus he should be charged with and convicted of Murder.

You missed the part where Zimmerman replies "OK" and stops following him, so I'm glad you won't be on the jury.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
BrightAnarchist
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 853
Merit: 1000



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:01:56 AM
 #21

I've already donated to Zimmerman but I'd be happy to donate more

Just PM me with how much you want to donate and we can make a deal. This allows me to buy more btc anyway. I can send you a copy of my reciept etc after I make the paypal donation.
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:17:08 AM
 #22

What is clear from the call is that he is scared Martin might be planning to rob houses, was on drugs (he was right), and was approaching his car with something in his hands (Zimemrman clearly thought he was armed.)

Zimmerman was afraid of Martin, the only reason he followed after him to guide the police was the false sense of security brought on by having a firearm in his possession.  When the 9/11 operator tells him he doesn't have to follow, he says okay, and it is clear he has stopped running as he continues to talk without sounds of footsteps or heavy breathing and he makes it clear he doesn't even see Martin anymore, which is an obvious sign he wasn't following him at the time.

The 'drugs' in Trayvon's body were trace amount of marijuana, low enough that there was no way he was high at the time.


On the other hand, in Zimmerman's statement to EMTs he claimed to be taking two at the time, and Zimmerman's own doctor said he was also prescribed (though not necessarily under the effects of at the time, save maybe withdrawals) Adderall.


So, one person tested as 'high awhile ago, but not now' and the other told EMTs he had drugs in his system right then.


Zimmerman's paranoia caused him to murder a child, since he is the only one still definitively claiming that he was 'surprise attacked' and he is also a compulsive liar currently being charged with perjury, I'd say his words hold no value.
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:22:11 AM
 #23

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

911 operator:

"Are you following him?"

Zimmerman:

"Yeah."

911 Operator:

"OK, we don't need you to do that."

He was told not to pursue him thus he should be charged with and convicted of Murder.

You missed the part where Zimmerman replies "OK" and stops following him, so I'm glad you won't be on the jury.

What he posted and the events that the girlfriend claimed to have heard seem to match up and go opposed to Zimmerman's bizarre story about a scared young boy suddenly turning into Aggressive  Violent Ninja Negro and jumping and beating him so badly that EMTs didn't think he needed to go to a hospital.

I'm glad you won't be on the jury, because you are a nutcase jumping through hoops to believe the wild and changing stories of a habitual liar with a history of aggression trying to avoid a murder 2 charge.
BadBear
v2.0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1005



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 06:29:04 AM
 #24

He followed an unarmed kid on public property, and ended up shooting and killing him. Stand Your Ground laws be damned, that isn't right and he should be made liable for his actions. At the very least there should be a trial so it can be decided by people who know the facts.

Quote
What is clear from the call is that he is scared Martin might be planning to rob houses, was on drugs (he was right), and was approaching his car with something in his hands (Zimemrman clearly thought he was armed.)

Being a pothead and going to the store to buy skittles isn't something you kill people over.

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:35:42 AM
 #25

He followed an unarmed kid on public property, and ended up shooting and killing him. Stand Your Ground laws be damned, that isn't right and he should be made liable for his actions. At the very least there should be a trial so it can be decided by people who know the facts.

The disgusting thing is that the Zimmerman defenders don't want this to go to trial, because they either know he is guilty as all hell or have bought into this whole narrative that the feds or media or something and prosecuting an 'innocent' man because of some conspiracy about gun rights or race wars or something.

Stand Your Ground laws are bullshit anyways because whenever there is a body, there should at least be a trial. If the shooter was actually acting in self defense, the jury should be able to see it.
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:59:02 AM
 #26

Quote
What he posted and the events that the girlfriend claimed to have heard seem to match up and go opposed to Zimmerman's bizarre story about a scared young boy suddenly turning into Aggressive  Violent Ninja Negro and jumping and beating him so badly that EMTs didn't think he needed to go to a hospital.

I'm glad you won't be on the jury, because you are a nutcase jumping through hoops to believe the wild and changing stories of a habitual liar with a history of aggression trying to avoid a murder 2 charge.

If any of what Zimmerman told the police, who were on the scene in minutes since he had called them (strange thing to do before a murder), has changed from the night it happened until now I'm not aware of it.  Could you link me anything that shows he has changed his story?

There is a lot of second hand stuff from his father and others that has been confused, but none of what Zimmerman has said to the police has changed or been proven wrong as far as I am aware. There are pictures of the injuries to his head, and if his doctors say his nose wasn't broken that probably would have been publicly known by now.  I don't think you should be trying to diagnose someone based on pictures when you don't know what you are talking about.  Same thing with the drug test thing.  You are the one making convoluted defenses.    He was on drugs, he even had his lighter with him at the time obviously because he needed it.

Even if that wasn't true, the fact is Marijuana can cause long term damage to the mind, it seems quite possible that this contributed to Martin's poor choices.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html

Quote
It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.

In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.

In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.

Quote
Adderall.

Believe me, I know all about how bad drugs like that can be.  Psychiatrists are downright criminal, and it would be a better world if people stopped trusting them, but it doesn't look to me like Adderall played a role in this.  Zimmerman was right to be suspicious about how Martin was looking at the houses.  He had been caught with stolen property before and he could have been planning to rob again.  Zimmerman was also right that Martin was on drugs.  It wasn't paranoia, Zimemrman seemed to be diagnosing the situation very clearly. 

I definitely want this to go to trial, but it doesn't look like there will be a conviction.

Quote
Being a pothead and going to the store to buy skittles isn't something you kill people over.

If you get high and break somebody's nose and slam their head into the concrete while they scream, they have a right to defend themselves.  As I mentioned earlier I don't believe in private gun ownership so I agree killing someone is not the right choice when there are non-lethal methods of personal defense such as pepper spray or a taser.  Or, Martin could have called the police or ran home if he was really scared, but instead he chose to confront Zimmerman from behind and severely injure him.



"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 07:33:28 AM
 #27

Quote
What he posted and the events that the girlfriend claimed to have heard seem to match up and go opposed to Zimmerman's bizarre story about a scared young boy suddenly turning into Aggressive  Violent Ninja Negro and jumping and beating him so badly that EMTs didn't think he needed to go to a hospital.

I'm glad you won't be on the jury, because you are a nutcase jumping through hoops to believe the wild and changing stories of a habitual liar with a history of aggression trying to avoid a murder 2 charge.

Quote
If any of what Zimmerman told the police, who were on the scene in minutes since he had called them (strange thing to do before a murder), has changed from the night it happened until now I'm not aware of it.  Could you link me anything that shows he has changed his story?

My favorite story of his was the version where Trayvon jumped him and held his hand over Zimmerman's mouth during the entire fight, the same mouth he was screaming unmuffled out of.

My second favorite one is the one where Zimmerman claimed after he shot Trayvon, Trayvon's last words were either "You got me!" or "It's over" - just like in the movies!

Quote
There is a lot of second hand stuff from his father and others that has been confused, but none of what Zimmerman has said to the police has changed or been proven wrong as far as I am aware. There are pictures of the injuries to his head, and if his doctors say his nose wasn't broken that probably would have been publicly known by now.  I don't think you should be trying to diagnose someone based on pictures when you don't know what you are talking about.  Same thing with the drug test thing.  You are the one making convoluted defenses.    He was on drugs, he even had his lighter with him at the time obviously because he needed it.

Welp, the courts already think he is a liar, and he and his wife are getting felony charges for perjury.


Quote
Even if that wasn't true, the fact is Marijuana can cause long term damage to the mind, it seems quite possible that this contributed to Martin's poor choices.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html


This is true, people who smoke weed are often violent psychotics who use the Hulk-like strength and quick wits that weed bestows on them to attacked and try to murder their pursuers.

However, any one of the meds Zimmy was on cause similar or worse symptoms than weed. Zimmerman was one 3 medications, so Zimmerman had the paranoia and aggression and strength of THREE WEEDS.

Quote
If you get high and break somebody's nose and slam their head into the concrete while they scream, they have a right to defend themselves.  As I mentioned earlier I don't believe in private gun ownership so I agree killing someone is not the right choice when there are non-lethal methods of personal defense such as pepper spray or a taser.  Or, Martin could have called the police or ran home if he was really scared, but instead he chose to confront Zimmerman from behind and severely injure him.

Citation that isn't Zimmerman needed. Zimmerman can't both claim he was screaming all along and also that Trayvon had his hand over his mouth. Also the EMTs weren't convinced he sustained any real damage, and they HAVE TO TAKE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL AGAINST YOUR WILL if you have any signs of damage.

Looks like the fat fucker was playing wannabe cop, tried to apprehend a kid, got punched off and hit his head and decided to execute the kid.


If he truly had his head bashed he would have been in a hospital that night getting treated and would have had fountains of blood coming out of his head, not a few stream and a doctor's note from a personal doctor mentioning a bunch of new injuries
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 07:48:33 AM
 #28

Quote
My favorite story of his was the version where Trayvon jumped him and held his hand over Zimmerman's mouth during the entire fight, the same mouth he was screaming unmuffled out of.

My second favorite one is the one where Zimmerman claimed after he shot Trayvon, Trayvon's last words were either "You got me!" or "It's over" - just like in the movies!

Could you link where he is quoted as claiming any of this?  I believe you are confusing second or third hand accounts for what Zimmerman has actually said, I'm not aware of anything that conflicts with what he told the police.

Quote
Welp, the courts already think he is a liar, and he and his wife are getting felony charges for perjury.

It certainly appears they lied about money, but that does not have any bearing on what actually happened the night Trayvon attacked him.

Quote
This is true, people who smoke weed are often violent psychotics who use the Hulk-like strength and quick wits that weed bestows on them to attacked and try to murder their pursuers.

The medical evidence is what it is, you are again making convoluted arguments to try and deny the facts.  The pictures clearly show the injuries Zimmerman sustained.




And the autopsy showed that Martin's hands showed signs of the struggle. 

Quote
Citation that isn't Zimmerman needed. Zimmerman can't both claim he was screaming all along and also that Trayvon had his hand over his mouth.

Cite the quote.

Quote
Also the EMTs weren't convinced he sustained any real damage, and they HAVE TO TAKE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL AGAINST YOUR WILL if you have any signs of damage.

See the pictures, and note that:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2145059/Trayvon-Martin-killing-George-Zimmerman-treated-broken-nose-cuts-head.html#ixzz1xeodCoTJ
Quote
The report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, follows a separate medical report on Zimmerman which found he had a pair of black eyes, a nose fracture and two cuts to the back of his head a day after the fatal February 26 shooting.

Sorry, he really was attacked, the evidence is very clear.  You are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist here when you just straight up deny the facts of the case.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
kiba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1000


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 08:18:11 AM
 #29

This is a really lame thread. You guys already decided he's guilty and not guilty before we even have a trial.

tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 08:42:18 AM
 #30

It is clear that donate money to the murderer of a child is a despicable act.
There are thousands of people really innocent,that never pulled the trigger, incarcerated, for which no one has lifted a finger and now come these "good samaritans" to support this guy?
Sucks

Should lose all faith in humanity  see how people are willing to donate thousands of dollars to defend the murderer of your son / brother / grandson...

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
dirtycat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 456
Merit: 250



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 09:20:08 AM
 #31

ill donate a few where do I send the coin?

poop!
crazy_rabbit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1000


RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 02:56:31 PM
 #32

This is a really lame thread. You guys already decided he's guilty and not guilty before we even have a trial.

What is lame about this thread is that it's even a thread. Seriously, it has nothing to do with bitcoin. It's like saying "Who's donating to the guy who beats his wife thread?" his legal guilt is irrelevant. He shot and killed the kid- no one disputes that, and if he doesn't have money he will get a public defendant.

Save your bitcoin for bailing out Bitcoin projects that are being crushed by the likes of Apple (Bitpak for example) and supporting the economy. Zimmerman probably couldn't give a flying pig f... about Bitcoin.

more or less retired.
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 04:37:35 PM
 #33

Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

We only have Zimmerman's word for that, and he has been proven a liar already.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
 #34

If Martin was thinking more clearly (Read:  Not on a dangerous, mind altering illegal drug at the time) he probably would have realized attacking Zimmerman was not a good idea. 

At the time?  THC stays in your system for up to two months.  Half the population probably has some THC in their system.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:05:58 PM
 #35

Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

We only have Zimmerman's word for that, and he has been proven a liar already.

No, there are other sources that show Martin was attacking a helpless Zimmerman.  Even Martin's father didn't believe it was his son screaming and witnesses confirm he was beating Zimmerman.  It is shocking to me that people who have not followed this case at all think they have enough information to come to an informed conclusion.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852#.T9jG-bX8TF9
Quote
The reports also note that two witness accounts appear to back up Zimmerman's version of what happened when they describe a man on his back with another person wearing a hoodie straddling him and throwing punches.

It has been such a contentious case that even the evidence is being disputed.

The police report states that Trayvon Martin's father told an investigator after listening to 911 tapes that captured a man's voice frantically callling for help that it was not his son calling for help.

Quote
At the time?  THC stays in your system for up to two months.  Half the population probably has some THC in their system.

He had his lighter on him for a reason, he was clearly on drugs at the time of the attack as Zimmerman quickly determined thanks to Martin's strange behavior.  It's bizzare how people just want to ignore such a major part of this story, most likely because there is an agenda among some to falsely claim Marijuana is safe, but here we have it leading to the death of a child and all people want to do is protect their obscene belief that this drug be made more available everywhere.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:15:44 PM
 #36

No, there are other sources that show Martin was attacking a helpless Zimmerman.  Even Martin's father didn't believe it was his son screaming and witnesses confirm he was beating Zimmerman.  It is shocking to me that people who have not followed this case at all think they have enough information to come to an informed conclusion.

That's a load of crap. Trayvon's father said he couldn't identify the voice. It is shocking as some people believe a liar.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/video-eyewitness-to-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-speaks-out/?iref=obinsite

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness referred to as a male said that he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[124][125] The witness later appeared on CNN AC360 referred to as a female, giving more details on her account. She pointed out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face.[126]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Sanford_Police_arrival_and_initial_investigation

Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, appeared on AC 360 and Cutcher stated that she believes "there was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling" just prior to the shooting, but admitted that she neither saw the shooting nor the preceding altercation.[119][120][121] Cutcher and her roommate heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees straddling Martin on the ground.[119][121] Mary Cutcher phoned police after the fatal shooting and said the black man was standing over another man, although Trayvon Martin was already dead.[122] According to the Orlando Sentinel article, "Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern [on March 15] issued a statement disputing Cutcher's version of events, calling her statements to WFTV "inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police."[123] However, Cutcher and her roommate maintain that their account of the incident to the police did not agree with Zimmerman's, and they demanded the police retract that incorrect statement.[120]
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 05:19:13 PM
 #37

It is shocking to me that people who have not followed this case at all think they have enough information to come to an informed conclusion.

It's shocking to me how easily people like you jump to conclusions.  (He had a lighter on him, so he must have just taken drugs!)  Luckily, I base my conclusions on facts alone.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:35:32 PM
 #38

He had a lighter on him, and he tested positive for the drugs.  It's not jumping to conclusions to accept these facts, you are simply jumping frantically away from the factual conclusion you wish wasn't true.

Quote
That's a load of crap. Trayvon's father said he couldn't identify the voice. It is shocking as some people believe a liar.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-17/zimmerman-trayvon-shooting-report/55046944/1

Quote
In a report, Serino said that on Feb. 28, he played the 911 tapes for Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father. "I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son. Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded 'no.' "

His father has since changed his story on this now, but that is hardly inspiring trust, is it?

Quote
Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, appeared on AC 360 and Cutcher stated that she believes "there was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling" just prior to the shooting, but admitted that she neither saw the shooting nor the preceding altercation.

Yeah, great witness you have there.  Folks who actually saw it disagree with her account, as due the clear facts that Zimmerman was injured.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 05:46:11 PM
 #39

Yeah, great witness you have there.  Folks who actually saw it disagree with her account, as due the clear facts that Zimmerman was injured.

Witnesses split 50-50, and don't remember anything of value. Until they actually testify it's irrelevant. Drugs are irrelevant.

But that Zimmerman lied to the judge is very relevant. That's pretty much the only fact we have right now. That's a huge victory for the prosecutor.
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 05:54:44 PM
 #40

It's not jumping to conclusions to accept these facts, you are simply jumping frantically away from the factual conclusion you wish wasn't true.

Now you are jumping to conclusions about what I'm thinking?   Undecided

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:04:13 PM
 #41

Yeah, great witness you have there.  Folks who actually saw it disagree with her account, as due the clear facts that Zimmerman was injured.

Witnesses split 50-50, and don't remember anything of value. Until they actually testify it's irrelevant. Drugs are irrelevant.

But that Zimmerman lied to the judge is very relevant. That's pretty much the only fact we have right now. That's a huge victory for the prosecutor.


No, we have plenty of other facts, like Zimmerman's medical report and the photos of his injury, that clearly call into question the statements of anyone who said Martin was not beating Zimmerman.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:16:01 PM
 #42

No, we have plenty of other facts, like Zimmerman's medical report and the photos of his injury, that clearly call into question the statements of anyone who said Martin was not beating Zimmerman.

These are open to interpretation. They prove nothing so far. All facts are sealed at this moment.

This case will be mostly based on finding lies in Zimmerman's testimony.
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:18:21 PM
 #43

Yeah, great witness you have there.  Folks who actually saw it disagree with her account, as due the clear facts that Zimmerman was injured.

Witnesses split 50-50, and don't remember anything of value. Until they actually testify it's irrelevant. Drugs are irrelevant.

But that Zimmerman lied to the judge is very relevant. That's pretty much the only fact we have right now. That's a huge victory for the prosecutor.


No, we have plenty of other facts, like Zimmerman's medical report and the photos of his injury, that clearly call into question the statements of anyone who said Martin was not beating Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's report holds little weight since it came from a 'personal doctor' and not a court or police appointed examiner, while the EMTs found no injuries that warranted a hospital visit.
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:35:17 PM
 #44

You don't necessarily need a hospital visit for these injuries, but they are plenty severe enough to show he was being beaten. 

"NUH-UH, THE DOCTOR IS A LIAR!" is not exactly an argument I can refute, but it's also not one that I think should be taken seriously either.  Doctors aren't likely to lie and put their entire career and freedom at risk just to help one random patient get out of a murder charge. 

Quote
A neighbor told ABC News that the day after the shooting he saw Zimmerman as he spoke to officers outside his home. He too recalled seeing black eyes and significant swelling -- as well as a bandage over his nose.

Criminal mastermind Zimmerman has convinced his neighbors and doctors to lie to cover up his murder!  And then he convinced the police to photoshop up the images that clearly show the injuries! 



"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 976
Merit: 1000


Create Your Decentralized Life


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:37:26 PM
 #45

Let me join this WTF thread.  

WTF!  

1) Somebody smart enough to find this forum and be interested in bitcoins thinks drug prohibition could help limit violence.  

Wow.  Just wow.  There's proof positive that somebody can be smart in one area and stone dumb in another.  Either that, or somebody has a secret agenda.  


2)  "We have chosen to use PayPal to collect donations because they offer secure transactions, they have a strong reputation for online monetary transactions, and they are a trusted third-party."

Wow.  Looks like GZ is going to have a tough time if his legal defense fund can jump to this kind of conclusion.  Either that, or somebody has a secret agenda.  


3)  A real answer for the OP, assuming this is not about spreading FUD:   Use coinopault.  Send money to whomever you like.  



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 06:41:53 PM
 #46

Why the fuck did you guys have to start ANOTHER thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76129.0

Can this please be moved to off-topic, it isn't in any way related to Bitcoin Discussion, as much as OP would like it to be.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 07:00:40 PM
 #47


1) Somebody smart enough to find this forum and be interested in bitcoins thinks drug prohibition could help limit violence.  

Wow.  Just wow.  There's proof positive that somebody can be smart in one area and stone dumb in another.  Either that, or somebody has a secret agenda.  

You need to open your mind to the truth.  Take a look at a nation like Singapore with strong drug enforcement and law enforcement in general...violent crime is extremely rare.  When you let people poison their minds with addictive junk, it's not a shock that they end up violent or criminal.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Elwar
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2492
Merit: 1161


www.varyon.io


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 07:01:38 PM
 #48

Looks like a lot of people here have fallen into the MSM's trap.

Other people have been shot today. This is no different.

                     ▄▓▓▓▓    ▄▓█▓▄
                  ▄▓██████    ██████▓▄
                ▐████████▓    ▓████████▌
            ▄▓▓▄ ▀██▓▀▀▀         ▀▀▓██▓ ▄▓▓▄
         ▄▓█████▌ ▄▄▓▓██▓▌     ▓██▓▓▄▄ ▐█████▓▄
       ▓███████▀▄▓███████▌    ▐███████▓▄▀▓██████▓
       ▓█████▓ ▓█████████▌     █████████▓ ▓█████▓
               ▀▓████████      █████████▓
     ▄▄             ▀▀▀▀▀       ▀▀▀▀             ▄▄
    ▓████▓▓                                  ▄▓█████
    ▐██████ ▄▓█▓▓▄▄                   ▄▄▓▓▓▓ ██████▌
     ▓█████ ████████▓▓            ▄▓████████ █████▓
      ▓███▓ █████████▓            ▓█████████ ▓████
            ▀███████▀               ▓██████▀
        ▓███▓ ▓███▓      ▄▓██▓▄      ▓███▓ ▓███▓
        ▓█████▄        ▄▓██████▓▄        ▄▓████▓
         ██████▓      ▓██████████▓      ▐██████
         ▐████▓       ▀▓████████▓▀       ▓████▌
           ▀▀▀    ▄▓██▓▓▄▄ ▀▀ ▄▄▓▓███▓     ▀▀▀
                 ▓█████████  ██████████▄
                 ▓▓██████▓▓  ▀▓██████▓▓
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
.......Social Media.......
██▄▓█████████████████████▓▓▄
▓██████████████████████████▌
███████████████████▓▓▀  ▓██▌
██████████████▓▀▀       ▓██▌
████████▓▀▀      ▄█    ▐███▌
███▓▀        ▄▄▓▀      ▓███▌
███▓▄▄▄   ▄▓█▓         ████▌
████████▓ ▓▌          ▓████▌
█████████▓    ▄       █████▌
██████████▌ ▄▓██▓▄   ▐█████▌
███████████████████▓▓██████▌
▐██████████████████████████
  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
▄███████████████████▄
██████████████████████▌
██████████████████████▌
████████████     █▀███▌
███   █████        ▐██▌
███               ▐███▌
███               ████▌
████             █████▌
█████▄▄         ██████▌
████         ▄████████▌
██████████████████████▌
██████████████████████▌
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 08:03:05 PM
 #49

You don't necessarily need a hospital visit for these injuries, but they are plenty severe enough to show he was being beaten. 

"NUH-UH, THE DOCTOR IS A LIAR!" is not exactly an argument I can refute, but it's also not one that I think should be taken seriously either.  Doctors aren't likely to lie and put their entire career and freedom at risk just to help one random patient get out of a murder charge. 

Quote
A neighbor told ABC News that the day after the shooting he saw Zimmerman as he spoke to officers outside his home. He too recalled seeing black eyes and significant swelling -- as well as a bandage over his nose.

Criminal mastermind Zimmerman has convinced his neighbors and doctors to lie to cover up his murder!  And then he convinced the police to photoshop up the images that clearly show the injuries! 




So the EMT report and the pictures of him without black eyes mean nothing, but an ABC news interview with an anonymous neighbor does?

Also Florida is pretty much the place to go if you are an unethical doctor looking to make bank off your lack of morals.
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 08:04:03 PM
 #50


1) Somebody smart enough to find this forum and be interested in bitcoins thinks drug prohibition could help limit violence.  

Wow.  Just wow.  There's proof positive that somebody can be smart in one area and stone dumb in another.  Either that, or somebody has a secret agenda.  

You need to open your mind to the truth.  Take a look at a nation like Singapore with strong drug enforcement and law enforcement in general...violent crime is extremely rare.  When you let people poison their minds with addictive junk, it's not a shock that they end up violent or criminal.

Drugs are fun and I havent killed anyone yet, no harm no foul
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 08:15:29 PM
 #51

It is shocking to me that people who have not followed this case at all think they have enough information to come to an informed conclusion.

It's shocking to me how easily people like you jump to conclusions.  (He had a lighter on him, so he must have just taken drugs!)  Luckily, I base my conclusions on facts alone.
The autopsy showed he had used drugs. And he was suspended from school for drugs. That is not why he was shot though. He was shot for attempting to murder someone. Yes. Pounding someones head against the pavement is attempted murder.
If anyone tried to do that to me they would be dead in seconds. If you disagree, then what should one do while having your head smashed in?

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 13, 2012, 08:38:10 PM
 #52

Quote
So the EMT report and the pictures of him without black eyes mean nothing, but an ABC news interview with an anonymous neighbor does?

You really should not to try and overrule what the doctors he saw say happened if you don't understand that bruises don't always appear instantly.  What the EMS saw was consistent with what Zimmerman said happened, that he had been beaten on the face and had his head slammed into the concrete, which is also consistent with what his neighbor saw the next day.  Or hey, maybe ABC made up the story from the neighbor. The conspiracy grows!

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-05-18/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting_1_witness-interview-person/4?_s=PM:JUSTICE
Quote
According to a report from the Sanford Fire Department, released Thursday, Zimmerman had "abrasions to his forehead," "bleeding/tenderness to his nose" and a "small laceration to the back of his head" when emergency personnel arrived at the scene at 7:27 p.m., six minutes after they were first called.

Quote
Also Florida is pretty much the place to go if you are an unethical doctor looking to make bank off your lack of morals.

So you are accusing a random doctor of lying to cover up a murder for money, with zero evidence, fantastic.  You have a preconceived notion that Zimmerman is guilty and are just saying whatever is necessary for it to be true, no matter how ridiculous, even though the facts say you are wrong.  

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Dalkore
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1008


Mining since 2010


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2012, 10:04:10 PM
 #53

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

You know he is mixed right?  That is all.   I am too far from the facts to have an opinion.

Hosting: Low as $85.00 per KW - Link
Transaction List: jayson3 +5 - ColdHardMetal +3 - Nolo +2 - CoinHoarder +1 - Elxiliath +1 - tymm0 +1 - Johnniewalker +1 - Oscer +1 - Davidj411 +1 - BitCoiner2012 +1 - dstruct2k +1 - Philj +1 - camolist +1 - exahash +1 - Littleshop +1 - Severian +1 - DebitMe +1 - lepenguin +1 - StringTheory +1 - amagimetals +1 - jcoin200 +1 - serp +1 - klintay +1 - -droid- +1 - FlutterPie +1
JeffK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 250


I never hashed for this...


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 12:14:27 AM
 #54

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

You know he is mixed right?  That is all.   I am too far from the facts to have an opinion.

Yeah, this is the whole narrative pushed by Fox as a way to downplay all the institutional racism against black people in this country. His heritage doesn't matter as much as the fact that he felt he was a law enforcer stopping a suspicious black person. The people defending him are mostly doing so for one of two reasons: they feel gun rights are under attack, or they are more willing to believe, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, that a black child walking home from the store decided to attack and violently beat someone than the notion that Zimmerman's tendency to profile blacks caused him to initiate and quickly escalate a confrontation that ended in him shooting a child.



Also, as an aside, there were links to Zimmerman's myspace posted awhile back with him making derogatory comments about mexicans, so while it isn't particularly relevant it shows that he certainly seemed to think of himself as more 'white'

Quote from: Zimmerman
I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!
yahoo news



IN OTHER NEWS - might wanna hold off on your donations until a little more evidence comes out, a judge has ordered that nearly all the evidence, includes photos of the crime scene, Trayvon's full autopsy and Zimmerman's multiple statements to police be unsealed to the public in 15 days

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/judge-orders-george-zimmermans-statements-trayvon-martins-autopsy
repentance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840
Merit: 1000


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 12:57:34 AM
 #55

He followed an unarmed kid on public property, and ended up shooting and killing him. Stand Your Ground laws be damned, that isn't right and he should be made liable for his actions. At the very least there should be a trial so it can be decided by people who know the facts.

The disgusting thing is that the Zimmerman defenders don't want this to go to trial, because they either know he is guilty as all hell or have bought into this whole narrative that the feds or media or something and prosecuting an 'innocent' man because of some conspiracy about gun rights or race wars or something.

Stand Your Ground laws are bullshit anyways because whenever there is a body, there should at least be a trial. If the shooter was actually acting in self defense, the jury should be able to see it.

I expect that a non-trivial amount of Zimmerman supporters would have been just fine with it if he'd used their donations to flee the country.  This is a situation where people on both sides are firmly convinced that justice won't be done.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 01:03:19 AM
 #56

Quote
they feel gun rights are under attack, or they are more willing to believe, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, that a black child walking home from the store decided to attack and violently beat someone than the notion that Zimmerman's tendency to profile blacks caused him to initiate and quickly escalate a confrontation that ended in him shooting a child.

It's so weird how you have to twist the facts to come up with anything to defend your position.  Martin is several inches bigger than Zimmerman, was under the influence of mind altering drugs, and the evidence shows he was beating Zimmerman physically during their fight.  The story is slightly more complex than "a black child walking home from the store".  You have not been able to produce any evidence to the contrary.  You simply make incorrect claims (like that Zimmerman changed his story) and when asked for a cite you ignore the request.  (Because you are wrong)

Or you insist it's some conspiracy, everybody is lying about the injury and all the witnesses that actually saw Martin on top are lying and ABC is lying and the doctor is lying and the police are lying and the autopsy is lying...or maybe it's time to actually accept the narrative you have for this crime is wrong?

So, can you let us know what evidence you are using to justify your claim that Zimmerman profiled black men?

As for gun rights, I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on that.  Gun control is the solution to this problem of black men (and everyone else) being shot, for self defense or as part of crimes or random acts,  we need to take guns off the streets and out of the hands of the police as well.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
check_status
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


Web Dev, Db Admin, Computer Technician


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 02:24:37 AM
 #57

Why the fuck did you guys have to start ANOTHER thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76129.0

Can this please be moved to off-topic, it isn't in any way related to Bitcoin Discussion, as much as OP would like it to be.
I did not realize what a storm this would create here. I was basically asking if people knew how to get in touch with those running the website, lawyers, trust funders, what ever, that's all. meh.

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
P2Pool Server List | How To's and Guides Mega List |  1EndfedSryGUZK9sPrdvxHntYzv2EBexGA
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 03:00:29 AM
 #58

Quote
they feel gun rights are under attack, or they are more willing to believe, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, that a black child walking home from the store decided to attack and violently beat someone than the notion that Zimmerman's tendency to profile blacks caused him to initiate and quickly escalate a confrontation that ended in him shooting a child.

It's so weird how you have to twist the facts to come up with anything to defend your position.  Martin is several inches bigger than Zimmerman, was under the influence of mind altering drugs, and the evidence shows he was beating Zimmerman physically during their fight.  The story is slightly more complex than "a black child walking home from the store".  You have not been able to produce any evidence to the contrary.  You simply make incorrect claims (like that Zimmerman changed his story) and when asked for a cite you ignore the request.  (Because you are wrong)

Or you insist it's some conspiracy, everybody is lying about the injury and all the witnesses that actually saw Martin on top are lying and ABC is lying and the doctor is lying and the police are lying and the autopsy is lying...or maybe it's time to actually accept the narrative you have for this crime is wrong?

So, can you let us know what evidence you are using to justify your claim that Zimmerman profiled black men?

As for gun rights, I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on that.  Gun control is the solution to this problem of black men (and everyone else) being shot, for self defense or as part of crimes or random acts,  we need to take guns off the streets and out of the hands of the police as well.

The autopsy report stated Martin was 5 feet, 11 inches and weighed 158 pounds.
Zimmerman's height is shown as 5'7" and his weight at 200 pounds


Zimmerman is heavier then Martin by good 40 pounds. That's a big advantage. Martin was a skinny dude. FAIL.

Now about drugs, Zimmerman was under drugs - Adderall and Temazepam. Both of them are known to cause violent behavior, depression, irritability. FAIL.

Witnesses split 50/50 about who was screaming and who was on top of who.

Pot doesn't cause people to become more violent. Duh.





 
John (John K.)
Global Troll-buster and
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1066


Will read PM's. Have more time lately


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 03:07:15 AM
 #59

Nah, I'll pass on this one too. My coins go to a more deserving charity. I would rather donate to my poor doggy's titbit fund then to him.

My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong
Escrow service is available on a case by case basis! (PM Me to verify I'm the escrow!)

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 03:26:48 AM
 #60

Quote
Zimmerman is heavier then Martin by good 40 pounds. That's a big advantage. Martin was a skinny dude. FAIL.

The relative sizes aren't really that important since we know Martin was winning the fight anyway, the weight obviously wasn't a concern.  The point was the imagery brought up of "Zimmerman v. a child" does not at all match up with him confronting a nearly six foot tall, intoxicated, violent individual who broke his nose and slammed his head into the concrete.  If you really think Zimmerman is guilty, you should not have to resort to trying to manipulate the imagery.

Quote
Now about drugs, Zimmerman was under drugs - Adderall and Temazepam. Both of them are known to cause violent behavior, depression, irritability. FAIL.

Yes, this has been brought up several times before.  I don't trust psychiatrists with their brain poisons either, but there is a reason the FDA has approved these drugs but not the illegal marijuana Martin was abusing.  It's would be much better if all of us kept our minds free and clear of this junk, but it will take some work to undo the scientific wrongs that have been done in the mental health field.

  Anyway, as bad as those prescribed drugs are, marijuana is much, much worse.  Further, there is no evidence these drugs were altering Zimmerman's behavior, instead of acting out aggression he called the police to handle the matter, something he would not do if he was planning a murder. Martin never called for help, he was looking for a confrontation because the drugs in his system were interfering with rational thought.

It's a tragedy people are blaming Zimmerman when the real blame is with the society that fails to properly educate our youths about the dangers of these drugs. Education can make a world of difference.

The program described in this study should be way more common.  It should be in every school, it simply works.

http://www.substanceabusepolicy.com/content/3/1/8

Quote
The purpose of this study was to evaluate the capacity of the Narconon drug education program to produce a long-term impact on students' drug use behaviors in a universal (all student) classroom setting. To a large degree, baseline survey responses were similar to drug use patterns seen in large national surveys. After controlling for pretest levels of use, at six months after receiving the drug prevention curriculum students in the drug education group had lower levels of current drug use than students in the comparison group. Significant reductions were observed for alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana – important categories of drug abuse for this population – as well as certain categories of "hard drugs" including controlled prescription drugs, cocaine, and ecstasy. The results in Table 4 show a clear and reliable tendency among every category tested for the drug education program to produce reductions in drug use behavior.  



Quote
Witnesses split 50/50 about who was screaming and who was on top of who.

The evidence makes it very clear what happened.  The only injuries aside from the gunshot Martin suffered were to his knuckles, and Zimmerman's injuries were to his face and the back of his head as it was slammed into the concrete.  Even Martin's own father said it was not Trayvon screaming until he changed his story.  Every witness who actually had eyes on the event says Trayvon was on top.






"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
shockD
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 93
Merit: 10


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 04:01:10 AM
 #61

vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
 #62

BTW learn the difference between 1nd and 2nd degree murders, you're confused. May be you should take less drugs or booze? Alcohol is a lot worse drug than THC... Morphine is FDA approved too and so THC. But you can't really buy them OTC.

http://www.thc.me/1497/news/marinol-fda-aprroved-thc-pill

Of course there is an evidence of drugs altering Zimmerman's behavior, he stalked and killed a man. Why would a normal person do that?!


The evidence makes it very clear what happened.  The only injuries aside from the gunshot Martin suffered were to his knuckles, and Zimmerman's injuries were to his face and the back of his head as it was slammed into the concrete.  Even Martin's own father said it was not Trayvon screaming until he changed his story.  Every witness who actually had eyes on the event says Trayvon was on top.


LOL... You said every witness? It's 50/50, I counted 3 witnesses disputing Zimmerman's story....

On March 29, 2012, an eyewitness referred to as a male said that he saw two men on the ground scuffling, then heard the shooting, and saw Zimmerman walk away with no blood on him.[125][126] The witness later appeared on CNN AC360 referred to as a female, giving more details on her account. She pointed out that she heard an argument between a younger and an older voice. The whole time she witnessed the incident the scuffling happened on the grass. She said that the larger man, who walked away after the gunshot, was on top, and that it was too dark to see blood on his face

Big fail again.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 04:33:19 AM
 #63

Wait, I'm failing because you came up a witness with two different genders in two different accounts? That didn't see the blood that was clearly visible in the pictures? LOL. This is getting beyond sad.
-
THC as marinol is approved in limited applications, but marijuana is a dangerous cocktail of chemicals beyond THC which the FDA has never, ever approved.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 04:37:32 AM
 #64

Wait, I'm failing because you came up a witness with two different genders in two different accounts? LOL. This is getting beyond sad.


These are news as reported. Here is a video:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/video-eyewitness-to-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-speaks-out/?iref=obinsite


Travon was supposed to be 6'3, but he was only 5'11.

So did you know THC was approved by FDA? So here goes your an another theory about pot. FAIL.
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 14, 2012, 05:26:42 AM
 #65

was under the influence of mind altering drugs

Give it a break already.  There is NO test to check if one is under the influence of marijuana.  That FACT is the reason pot isn't legal in Canada yet - no way to stop people from driving high cause you can't test for it.

All they know is that he smoked pot within the last 2 months.  One stays under the influence for only a few hours.

Educate yourself - you are looking like a fool.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 05:51:56 AM
 #66

Hi, I'm not from Canada, I'm from Clearwater, Florida originally, much closer to the scene of the crime than Canada.  Do you know how we test for THC in DUI cases in Florida?  Exactly how it was done in this case.  He tested positive, and he had a lighter on him to make it clear he was getting high that night, and the pointless violent assault he leveled on Zimmerman is just another data point.

If he was clear and sober, he never would have done this, he would have done the sensible thing and returned home and/or called the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGiBycxRNL4&feature=related

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:08:49 PM
 #67

The medical evidence is clear, smoking pot can make you violent and alters your thinking process, making you paranoid and disturbed.

Quote
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Feb. 1 (UPI) -- A Dutch study on the effects of marijuana use on teenagers suggests a connection with aggressive behavior.

The BBC reports researchers at the Trimbos Institute in the Netherlands found 17 percent of the 5,551 12 to 16-year-olds questioned had used marijuana within the past year. The study found the higher the frequency and amount of marijuana use, the more aggressive behavior the teenager showed.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2006/02/01/Study-Link-between-marijuana-aggression/UPI-28721138819619/#ixzz1xnfl72Wq

People who deny the dangers of Marijuana are exactly like those who deny the global warming science.  Just because you wish something was true doesn't mean it is, you have to actually look at the science.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:13:04 PM
 #68

The medical evidence is clear, smoking pot can make you violent and alters your thinking process, making you paranoid and disturbed.

Quote
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Feb. 1 (UPI) -- A Dutch study on the effects of marijuana use on teenagers suggests a connection with aggressive behavior.

The BBC reports researchers at the Trimbos Institute in the Netherlands found 17 percent of the 5,551 12 to 16-year-olds questioned had used marijuana within the past year. The study found the higher the frequency and amount of marijuana use, the more aggressive behavior the teenager showed.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2006/02/01/Study-Link-between-marijuana-aggression/UPI-28721138819619/#ixzz1xnfl72Wq

People who deny the dangers of Marijuana are exactly like those who deny the global warming science.  Just because you wish something was true doesn't mean it is, you have to actually look at the science.
That smacks of a study that couldn't be damned to actually do proper research. Fucking hell, there are so many variables that they conveniently ignored, it's totally laughable to look at the "study" and use it for evidence.

Additionally, you conveniently left out this quote from the same article:
Quote
Harald Wychgel, author of the Dutch study, said aggressive behavior and poor school grades are exacerbated in countries with more stringent drug laws.
(Emphasis mine)

So even if you do take the article at face value, it is still making a case for legalization.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
lolwut
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:18:58 PM
 #69

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

No offense, but everything you just said is complete horse shit. Fucking liberals.
lolwut
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1000



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:22:06 PM
 #70

The medical evidence is clear, smoking pot can make you violent and alters your thinking process, making you paranoid and disturbed.

Quote
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Feb. 1 (UPI) -- A Dutch study on the effects of marijuana use on teenagers suggests a connection with aggressive behavior.

The BBC reports researchers at the Trimbos Institute in the Netherlands found 17 percent of the 5,551 12 to 16-year-olds questioned had used marijuana within the past year. The study found the higher the frequency and amount of marijuana use, the more aggressive behavior the teenager showed.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2006/02/01/Study-Link-between-marijuana-aggression/UPI-28721138819619/#ixzz1xnfl72Wq

People who deny the dangers of Marijuana are exactly like those who deny the global warming science.  Just because you wish something was true doesn't mean it is, you have to actually look at the science.
That smacks of a study that couldn't be damned to actually do proper research. Fucking hell, there are so many variables that they conveniently ignored, it's totally laughable to look at the "study" and use it for evidence.

Additionally, you conveniently left out this quote from the same article:
Quote
Harald Wychgel, author of the Dutch study, said aggressive behavior and poor school grades are exacerbated in countries with more stringent drug laws.
(Emphasis mine)

So even if you do take the article at face value, it is still making a case for legalization.

how did this thread go from donating btc to legalizing marijuana? *scratches head*
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:29:21 PM
 #71

I dunno man. I have know a lot of weed smokers and I never seen it do anything but make them tired, hungry, and silly.  Much more likely to give an awkward but sincere hug than throw a punch.  If you want to get violent try tequila. That stuff makes me want to fight sometimes.  

Part of the reason people want to find something wrong with a drug is mindset, IMO. They just cant accept that one can get high and enjoy it without repercussions. It's like women saying they like sex or someone else saying they don't believe in God. People who believe others should behave like they do seem to hate when others are happy to live outside of the rules.  

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:33:51 PM
 #72

how did this thread go from donating btc to legalizing marijuana? *scratches head*
Just responding to Rarity's bunk "evidence" that drugs are bad, mmmmkay.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:35:27 PM
 #73

Nah, I've already talked about Singapore, very stringent drug enforcement and very low rates of violence.  The author of the study there was just stating an opinion in that quote.

Your ability to refute a scientific study with "NUH-UH, THE SCIENTISTS ARE DUMMYS!" is as I said before, pretty much the same as global warming denialism.  You can argue any point that way, but there is no reason to take you seriously when you do.

Experts agree that the link is valid.

Quote
"Recent research has indicated that for some people there is a correlation between frequent marijuana use and aggressive or violent behavior. This should be a concern to parents, community leaders, and to all Americans." -The National Crime Prevention Council

http://www.theantidrug.com/drug_info/drug-info-marijuana-and-teens.asp

Quote
Despite popular notions, research has shown a link between frequent marijuana use and increased violent behavior. Research found that among youth, the incidence of physically attacking people, destroying property and stealing increased in proportion to the number of days marijuana was smoked in the past year.

Quote
According to the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse (now the National Survey on Health) adolescents 12-17 who use marijuana weekly are nine times more likely than non-users to experiment with other illegal drugs or alcohol, five times more likely to steal and nearly four times more likely to engage in violence.9

http://www.justthinktwice.com/factsfiction/fiction_marijuana_is_harmless.html


The fact is, the increase in aggressive behavior isn't even the only concern that could have contributed to Martin's violence, it can precipitate psychosis or panic attacks which could have easily led to Martin misinterpreting Zimmerman's benign intentions.

It's a disgrace that we allow children to have access to addictive poisons like this.

Quote
Each year, more teens enter treatment with a primary diagnosis of marijuana dependence than for all other illicit drugs combined. Over sixty percent of teens admitted to drug treatment cite marijuana as their primary substance of abuse.

Quote
Even marijuana proponents acknowledge that marijuana use is harmful for teens. Allen St. Pierre, the executive director of NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marjuana Laws) recently stated that "One can argue before a young person reaches full brain development in their early 20's, they should not use or have legal access to marijuana."1

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:49:09 PM
 #74

Nah, I've already talked about Singapore, very stringent drug enforcement and very low rates of violence.  The author of the study there was just stating an opinion in that quote.

LOL. Comparing a city vs a country thats 100x times larger. Wow, genius. Correlation isn't causation. Singapore doesn't allow guns, so may be that's why lower crime rate? (it was proven many times that well being of people in the country relates to crime, Singapore is in top 3 of the world highest PPP). Weapons or drugs has absolutely fucking nothing to do with it. Zimmerman would be in jail in Singapore for possessing a gun.



You can't overdose on pot, ecstasy or LCD. You can quiet easily die from alcohol, a 1L bottle of Vodka would do the trick. In 2009 no people died from canabis, over 20000 died from alcohol.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 08:53:52 PM
 #75

Zimmerman was also on controlled substances... Schedule II and Schedule IV. So yea, here goes your an another FAIL theory.
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:01:59 PM
 #76

^ I have already discussed Zimmerman's use of dangerous psychiatric poisons as well multiple times in this thread.  There does not appear to be any evidence that they contributed to any negative actions (because Zimmerman did not perform any such actions beyond not having access to a non-lethal weapon such as pepper spray or a taser to handle his attacker), but I agree with you that it is a disgrace that doctors are allowed to subject people to that form of "treatment".  

Quote
LOL. Comparing a city vs a country thats 100x times larger.

When it works in one city it can work in others.

Quote
Singapore doesn't allow guns, so may be that's why lower crime rate...Zimmerman would be in jail in Singapore for possessing a gun.

I agree the prohibition on guns also contributes, and that should be the way it is in the US too.

Quote
You can't overdose on pot, ecstasy or LCD. You can quiet easily die from alcohol, a 1L bottle of Vodka would do the trick. In 2009 no people died from canabis, over 20000 died from alcohol.

You don't overdose, but the panic attacks and other mental effects can lead to your death in other ways.  

Quote
People who drive after using marijuana are nearly twice as likely to be involved in a fatal car crash
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash

Alcohol should also be illegal.   The gun violence involved in prohibition was why it became a violent and unsustainable mess, once we take the guns away it is an achievable goal to prohibit it.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:06:39 PM
 #77

Alcohol should also be illegal.   The gun violence involved in prohibition was why it became a violent and unsustainable mess, once we take the guns away it is an achievable goal to prohibit it.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:10:56 PM
 #78

You can also overdose on many other substances, like Dihydrogen Monoxide.. It should be illegal also.

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#VIOLENCE
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:13:05 PM
 #79

You can also overdose on many other substances, like Dihydrogen Monoxide.. It should be illegal also.

http://www.dhmo.org/

Substances that are necessary to sustain life should not be prohibited, even if they can have negative side effects.  Substances that are only used for fun are not in the same category, they aren't worth sacrificing your life or the lives of our children for.

Quote


"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
sd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 730
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
 #80

You can also overdose on many other substances, like Dihydrogen Monoxide.. It should be illegal also.

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html#VIOLENCE

It's really time that died. Only really stupid people fall for it and I don't like being reminded of just how many really stupid people there are in the world.
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:52:01 PM
 #81

It's really time that died. Only really stupid people fall for it and I don't like being reminded of just how many really stupid people there are in the world.

LOL. But its totally true that you can overdose on water :-) People died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication#Notable_cases

Sport drinks FTW.
hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 976
Merit: 1000


Create Your Decentralized Life


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 09:53:33 PM
 #82


1) Somebody smart enough to find this forum and be interested in bitcoins thinks drug prohibition could help limit violence.  

Wow.  Just wow.  There's proof positive that somebody can be smart in one area and stone dumb in another.  Either that, or somebody has a secret agenda.  

You need to open your mind to the truth.  Take a look at a nation like Singapore with strong drug enforcement and law enforcement in general...violent crime is extremely rare.  When you let people poison their minds with addictive junk, it's not a shock that they end up violent or criminal.


Hmm..  how would you recommend I open my mind?  Eh?  Shouldn't that be illegal in your view?

Can you think of some places with even stronger spending on "drug and law enforcement"  ?  How do the records on violence compare ?   Don't you think Singapore would be safer still if all drug related criminality was instantly gone and replaced with rational policy ?  

Can you think of other ways to entice people to become criminal?  How about, by giving billions of dollars a year in business only to criminals?  Encouraging corruption at the highest levels of law enforcement and government?  Eliminating the rule of law for transactions that affect millions of people?  

How about putting 2% of the population in jail so they can learn the ropes?  

Seriously folks, if you're not on board with this one you are part of the problem.    

Religious leaders,  Police officers     http://www.leap.cc/
Economists,  everyone except drug cartel leaders and corrupt politicians agree:  prohibition causes violence and criminality.   Its proven historically, logically, and once again the only reason one might disagree is if one is taking money from drug cartels and related corruption..  even then, your argument is still wrong in the long term.  

Drugs are too dangerous to be left to the hands of criminals.  

Remember it is you and your children who will be shot at, jailed, and robbed, by corruption that you enable when you apologize for it with fake arguments of do-goodery and vain hopes of short term profits from your corruption.  


In other news, you should probably also study what are the most addictive substances and most common mind-poisoning behaviors.  




        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 10:07:57 PM
 #83

Quote
Hmm..  how would you recommend I open my mind?

There are many paths to personal growth.  Philosophy, artistic pursuits, sports, education, helping your fellow man, there is really an amazing amount of things you can do that don't involve poisoning yourself.  For me the key has been spirituality and I think that can be a great path towards helping you get there, it teaches you to "know how to know".  It taught me that I am a spiritual being and that my abilities extended well beyond what I had thought which helped me in my career and in personal relationships.

Quote
Don't you think Singapore would be safer still if all drug related criminality was instantly gone and replaced with rational policy ?  

Nobody can be entirely safe, but Singapore's very rational policy has made it one of the safest places in the world.  America should follow suit with some of their strict policies on crime.

Quote
Can you think of other ways to entice people to become criminal?  How about, by giving billions of dollars a year in business only to criminals?  Encouraging corruption at the highest levels of law enforcement and government?  Eliminating the rule of law for transactions that affect millions of people?  

The law doesn't give money to criminals or rob people to get a fix, addicted drug users do.  The law doesn't violently engage in the drug trade, the distributors do that.  It is a false choice to suggest prohibition can not be achieved, as Singapore makes very clear.  It is inhumane to stop trying to protect addicts and children from drugs that kill them just because it is hard.  The government is a force of good, and it should protect us when it can.

Should we legalize child pornography just because stamping it out would require eliminating violent organized criminal elements?  Of course not, we have to protect the victims.  The same applies to drugs.

Quote
How about putting 2% of the population in jail so they can learn the ropes?  

We should surely reform our prison system so that they are not such a bad place, but that is not an excuse to legalize dangerous activities that kill people.

Quote
Religious leaders,  Police officers  

...are overwhelmingly opposed to legalization, regardless of any token examples you can find.

Quote
Remember it is you and your children who will be shot at, jailed, and robbed, by corruption

This is an argument for more law enforcement, not less.


"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 976
Merit: 1000


Create Your Decentralized Life


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 10:24:42 PM
 #84


There are many paths to personal growth.  Philosophy, artistic pursuits, sports, education, helping your fellow man, there is really an amazing amount of things you can do that don't involve poisoning yourself.  For me the key has been spirituality and I think that can be a great path towards helping you get there, it teaches you to "know how to know".  It taught me that I am a spiritual being and that my abilities extended well beyond what I had thought which helped me in my career and in personal relationships.


I totally agree!  Sports, artisic, education, study of foreign languages, religion, history, reading...  All very important, but none so satisfying as helping the fellow man.    I wonder what makes you think I poison myself?  Do you think I eat mcdonalds or drink mountain dew?  Or maybe watch commercial TV?   I don't. 


Nobody can be entirely safe, but Singapore's very rational policy has made it one of the safest places in the world.  America should follow suit with some of their strict policies on crime.


Maybe I am not familiar with the details of policies of Singapore.  I know however that USA spends more than anyone on drug prohibition and jails more than any country (per capita and total).  The totally predictable result is an increase in violence, corruption, and criminality.  This is not arguable.   

Quote

The law doesn't give money to criminals or rob people to get a fix, addicted drug users do.  The law doesn't violently engage in the drug trade, the distributors do that.  It is a false choice to suggest prohibition can not be achieved, as Singapore makes very clear.  It is inhumane to stop trying to protect addicts and children from drugs that kill them just because it is hard.  The government is a force of good, and it should protect us when it can.

 

http://www.economist.com/node/13237193

The trade in illegal drugs is billions of dollar annually.  Do you disagree?  You are now claiming you think this money should go straight into the hands of criminals.  You suggest here we should protect adults and children from drugs.  Protection means regulation, not prohibition.   Prohibition is the opposite of protection.  Remember it is because drugs can be so dangerous that they must be taken out of the hands of criminals and treated rationally.     

Quote

We should surely reform our prison system so that they are not such a bad place, but that is not an excuse to legalize dangerous activities that kill people.


Dangerous activities like gun ownership?  Driving cars?  Waging wars?  Taking prescription drugs?  All these things kill far far more people than any overdoses of illegal drugs. 

Seriously, you think I should be able to buy Draino but not cocaine? 

You think that nicotine is OK to buy but ganja means a cop can take your house? 

You think a playground pusher is better than a state regulated store?

You think that gang violence and corruption is better than regulated markets? 

Might want to work on that spiritual enlightenment a bit.  You'd be surprised, not all police and religious officials are corrupt.   









        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 14, 2012, 10:26:17 PM
 #85

Not to thread hijack further, but you really need to read some more studies from a range of sources, Rarity.  The FDA and DARE are not enough to educate one about drugs.

Most all the articles I find online talking about Marijuana and aggression didn't seem to actually have sources or only sources one study.

The ones that did seem to actually present some form of science were talking about withdrawal symptoms.  Zimmerman clearly wasn't going through withdrawal if your argument is that he was high at the time of the alleged murder. And carrying a lighter does not mean you are high.

The first article I found (http://www.idmu.co.uk/canagr.htm) with an actual list of sources ends with "The preponderance of scientific evidence does suggest cannabis may have a role in reducing aggressive behaviour, and the drug is certainly perceived to do so by a large number of cannabis users."

I'm also curious what you think about articles like this one from mothering.com (clearly not a pro-pot site).  While it doen't have to do with aggression, it presents evidence that marijuana does not have the effects that an organization like the FDA would lead you to believe.

http://mothering.com/pregnancy-birth/use-of-marijuana-during-pregnancy

There are around 30 sources from varying authors at the end of the article.

Only trusting what the FDA says and ignoring the rest of the scientific world is clearly limiting.  The FDA has been wrong about many things.

I really hope you are a troll and don't actually believe that prohibition would have worked if only we had also banned guns.

Okay, so Singapore doesn't have drugs and their violence is low.  Great.  How do you explain all of the countries/places with legalized/decriminalized drugs and low violence, especially ones that are more similar to the United States than Singapore is? I think that Netherlands handles drugs in a much more sane way than Singapore.  I'm not saying that there isn't a link between drugs and crime.  I'm saying that it isn't a simple of forumla of people + drugs = violence.

Seeing drugs as only poison is keeping your mind closed.

I'm glad you are optimistic about governments.  I wouldn't say they are a force for good though. Instead, I would say they should be a force of good.

Comparing Child Porn and Marijuana use is asinine.  Smoking pot does not hurt others.  Abducting children so you can sell them as sex objects does.

Have you heard of leap? They aren't just a "token example"

http://copssaylegalizedrugs.com/ or http://www.leap.cc/

http://www.leap.cc/partner-organizations/

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
 #86

Quote
I know however that USA spends more than anyone on drug prohibition and jails more than any country (per capita and total)

Spending a lot isn't necessarily a sign of doing things right or not.  America spends more on healthcare than other countries, more than it would under a socialized system that would work better.

Quote
The trade in illegal drugs is billions of dollar annually.  Do you disagree?  You are now claiming you think this money should go straight into the hands of criminals.

No, I am arguing that we should arrest the criminals and punish them harshly.  The trade in human trafficking and child pornography generates a lot of revenue too.  Guess we should have legal brothels for children too!  

Quote
You suggest here we should protect adults and children from drugs.  Protection means regulation, not prohibition.   Prohibition is the opposite of protection.  Remember it is because drugs can be so dangerous that they must be taken out of the hands of criminals and treated rationally.      

There is no safe, rational way to use dangerous recreational drugs.  You are doing harm to your body and mind and walking a path that leads to addiction for temporary fun.

Quote
Dangerous activities like gun ownership? Yes  Driving cars? I wouldn't mind it, if there is well developed enough public transport, but drugs and alcohol contribute to much of the danger here anyway)  Waging wars? I do not support wars other than when neccesary for defense Taking prescription drugs? Many of them should be banned, yes, but taking certain drugs under the supervision of a doctor is necessary to sustain life and thus should not be banned

Quote
Seriously, you think I should be able to buy Draino but not cocaine?  

Chemicals that do not have recreational uses or are otherwise necessary for daily life should not be banned, no.  Addictive recreational drug sessions are not necessary in any way.

Quote
You think that nicotine is OK to buy but ganja means a cop can take your house?  

No, nicotine should definitely be prohibited as well, but it isn't close to as harmful to the body as marijuana is.

Quote
You think a playground pusher is better than a state regulated store?

In Pennsylvania they have state run liquor stores.  Children still drink alcohol, adults still die from it too.  State run stores are not solutions to the drug problem.

Quote
You think that gang violence and corruption is better than regulated markets?  

I think gang violence will be much less of a problem once we take away their guns and drugs.

Quote
Might want to work on that spiritual enlightenment a bit.  You'd be surprised, not all police and religious officials are corrupt.    

Of course they aren't corrupt, which is why they don't support allowing the people they are supposed to be serving to poison themselves.

Quote
The FDA and DARE are not enough to educate one about drugs.

The sources I have cited are the views of government and law enforcement experts based on knowledge of the range of available studies .  I'm sure they would be happy to be wrong on this and be able to focus on other problems, but they aren't.  You can find a minority of scientists who might disagree with the studies, but the denialists try that same trick of pointing to outliers instead of the scientific consensus, which is that marijuana is dangerous.

Quote
Zimmerman clearly wasn't going through withdrawal if your argument is that he was high at the time of the alleged murder. And carrying a lighter does not mean you are high.

Martin tested positive for drugs and had the appropriate paraphernalia with him.  I know you wish he wasn't high but he was.  You have to accept reality instead of denying it.  High or in withdraw, the marijuana is what caused his violent decisions in regards to Zimmerman.  I will not accept that a good kid like Martin just randomly decided to attack someone.  He would not have done it if he was thinking clearly and he would not have been acting strangely and suspiciously when Zimmerman saw him.  

Quote
The first article I found (http://www.idmu.co.uk/canagr.htm) with an actual list of sources ends with "The preponderance of scientific evidence does suggest cannabis may have a role in reducing aggressive behaviour, and the drug is certainly perceived to do so by a large number of cannabis users."

The article lists some studies that say precisely the opposite.

Quote
However some researchers have reported increased "aggressive" responses on human or animal behavioural models, Carlini et al reported increased aggressive behaviour in THC-dosed rats following deprivation of REM sleep, or after developing tolerance to morphine. Dorr et al reported that a high THC dose (2.5 mg/kg) "markedly increased the percentage of animals which showed both aggression and flight acts--a rare combination among controls." Clinicians have reported a toxic psychosis following prolonged or heavy cannabis use, including aggressive behaviour or panic disorder, however the existence of a specific "cannabis psychosis" is not firmly established in the absence of an underlying psychopathology.

And part of what it ended with, which you chose not to post of course was:

Quote
for some individuals heavy use of cannabis may precipitate a psychotic reaction with aggressive outbursts. These incidents are relatively rare, and highlight the varied individual responses to the drug.

This sounds like precisely what happened to Martin.  I think it's wise to trust government experts more than some random site with a pot leaf logo and an agenda.

Quote
I'm also curious what you think about articles like this one from mothering.com

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aristotles-child/201111/the-truth-about-marijuana-and-pregnancy

I think you will find the bulk of doctors agree more with the FDA.

Quote
...it does have an impact on fetal brain development.  Long-term studies document that children whose mothers have used marijuana during pregnancy have a higher rate of executive functioning difficulties, which interfere with learning and behavior, especially as related to planning and following through with a task. Executive functioning is a vital issue, because although the children "look normal," they cannot behave and respond appropriately in the classroom or sometimes even at home.

...and I think you do to, and would not actually dose a baby with Marijuana because it would be "harmless", I would hope.

Quote
prohibition would have worked if only we had also banned guns.

Of course it would have.  It was a hallmark accomplishment of the progressive movement and only failed because of the violence.  Without the guns, it never would have been repealed.

Quote
I think that Netherlands handles drugs in a much more sane way than Singapore.  I'm not saying that there isn't a link between drugs and crime.  I'm saying that it isn't a simple of forumla of people + drugs = violence.

The guns are a big part of the equation.  They are restricted to only hunters and collectors in the Netherlands which limits the potential for violence significantly.  Even the Netherlands realizes that their policy simply doesn't work.  They are closing down coffee shops, banning tourists from them, and reclassifying Marijuana as a hard drug.  They tried the policy of believing the fantasy of safe marijuana, and of course it failed.  They also banned psychedelic mushrooms, another product people also often claim is safe but in fact ends up killing people.

Quote
Comparing Child Porn and Marijuana use is asinine.  Smoking pot does not hurt others.  Abducting children so you can sell them as sex objects does.

Drugs harm the addicted users and the family members who love them, it is a lie to say it is a victimless crime.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 14, 2012, 11:30:12 PM
 #87

Wow Rarity way to answer back. I can tell you don't do drugs. A stoner would have just said "F this" and taken a big hit.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 14, 2012, 11:45:12 PM
 #88

Quote
Zimmerman clearly wasn't going through withdrawal if your argument is that he was high at the time of the alleged murder. And carrying a lighter does not mean you are high.

Martin tested positive for drugs and had the appropriate paraphernalia with him.  I know you wish he wasn't high but he was.  You have to accept reality instead of denying it.  High or in withdraw, the marijuana is what caused his violent decisions in regards to Zimmerman.  I will not accept that a good kid like Martin just randomly decided to attack someone.  He would not have done it if he was thinking clearly and he would not have been acting strangely and suspiciously when Zimmerman saw him.  
I'm not "wishing he wasn't high." I'm questioning that someone who was possibly high on marijuana at the time attacked BECAUSE HE WAS HIGH and not for some other reason.

Quote
Quote
The first article I found (http://www.idmu.co.uk/canagr.htm) with an actual list of sources ends with "The preponderance of scientific evidence does suggest cannabis may have a role in reducing aggressive behaviour, and the drug is certainly perceived to do so by a large number of cannabis users."

The article lists some studies that say precisely the opposite.
Exactly.  Studies have shown both effects.  But do you know what "preponderance" means?

Quote
Quote
However some researchers have reported increased "aggressive" responses on human or animal behavioural models, Carlini et al reported increased aggressive behaviour in THC-dosed rats following deprivation of REM sleep, or after developing tolerance to morphine. Dorr et al reported that a high THC dose (2.5 mg/kg) "markedly increased the percentage of animals which showed both aggression and flight acts--a rare combination among controls." Clinicians have reported a toxic psychosis following prolonged or heavy cannabis use, including aggressive behaviour or panic disorder, however the existence of a specific "cannabis psychosis" is not firmly established in the absence of an underlying psychopathology.

And part of what it ended with, which you chose not to post of course was:

Quote
for some individuals heavy use of cannabis may precipitate a psychotic reaction with aggressive outbursts. These incidents are relatively rare, and highlight the varied individual responses to the drug.

This sounds like precisely what happened to Martin.  I think it's wise to trust government experts more than some random site with a pot leaf logo and an agenda.
Just because a tiny fraction of the population may have adverse effects to a substance doesn't mean we should make it illegal for everyone or call it poison for everyone.  There is so far no proof that it was the marijuana that caused a violent outburst.  Let's wait for the courts to decide who attacked who before we jump to blaming pot.

Quote
Quote
I'm also curious what you think about articles like this one from mothering.com

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aristotles-child/201111/the-truth-about-marijuana-and-pregnancy

I think you will find the bulk of doctors agree more with the FDA.
I don't see a single source listed.  Find some actual research. There are over 30 articles referenced by that mothering article.

Maybe the bulk of doctors in the USA.  However, your link doesn't link to a bulk of doctors and their research; it doesn't link to anything.

You also didn't respond to this list of groups that disagree with you. http://www.leap.cc/partner-organizations/

Quote
Quote
prohibition would have worked if only we had also banned guns.

Of course it would have.  It was a hallmark accomplishment of the progressive movement and only failed because of the violence.  Without the guns, it never would have been repealed.
I guess we simply disagree here.  I can't think of any instances of prohibition working well in the west.  Prohibition has historically always led to a black market where criminals are in control and once-law abiding citizens are forced to become criminals just to have a drink.

Quote
Quote
Comparing Child Porn and Marijuana use is asinine.  Smoking pot does not hurt others.  Abducting children so you can sell them as sex objects does.

Drugs harm the addicted users and the family members who love them, it is a lie to say it is a victimless crime.
I'll agree that addiction can harm other people beyond the addicted.  I don't at all believe it is anywhere near the damage caused by CP.

You are lumping all drugs into one category (poison) and assuming that they all lead to addiction and abuse.  This is foolish and close minded.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 12:29:34 AM
 #89

Quote
I'm questioning that someone who was possibly high on marijuana at the time attacked BECAUSE THEY WERE HIGH and not for some other reason.

There is no reason for a clear thinking person to have attacked Zimmerman like Martin did, it makes no sense.

Quote
But do you know what "preponderance" means?

Yes, and most experts seem to disagree that the preponderance of the evidence shows Marijuana to be safe, regardless of your ability to find one person on a website with a pot leaf logo to say otherwise.

Quote
Just because a tiny fraction of the population may have adverse effects to a substance doesn't mean we should make it illegal for everyone or call it poison for everyone.

There are many other adverse effects of marijuana, including but not limited to:

http://www.acde.org/common/Marijana.htm

Quote
Impaired perception
Diminished short-term memory
Loss of concentration and coordination
Impaired judgement
Increased risk of accidents
Loss of motivation
Diminished inhibitions
Increased heart rate
Anxiety, panic attacks, and paranoia
Hallucinations
Damage to the respiratory, reproductive, and immune systems
Increased risk of cancer
Psychological dependency

There is no reason to allow people to use such a dangerous substance, when the only reason is for pursuit of a deceptive and addictive pleasure.  

Quote
I don't see a single source listed.  Find some actual research. There are over 30 articles referenced by that mothering article.

Listing a lot of sources doesn't make somebody right.  Most experts who have actually looked at the studies agree on the dangers.


http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/marijuana-pot.html

Quote
Effects of Marijuana on Pregnancy

Any drug of abuse can affect a mother's health during pregnancy, and this is a time when she should take special care of herself. Drugs of abuse may interfere with proper nutrition and rest, which can affect good functioning of the immune system. Some studies have found that babies born to mothers who used marijuana during pregnancy were smaller than those born to mothers who did not use the drug. In general, smaller babies are more likely to develop health problems.

A nursing mother who uses marijuana passes some of the THC to the baby in her breast milk. Research indicates that the use of marijuana by a mother during the first month of breast-feeding can impair the infant's motor development (control of muscle movement).

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana-abuse/can-marijuana-use-during-pregnancy-harm-baby

Quote
Animal research suggests that the body's endocannabinoid system plays a role in the control of brain maturation, particularly in the development of emotional responses. It is conceivable that even low concentrations of THC, when administered during the perinatal period, could have profound and long-lasting consequences for both brain and behavior (Trezza et al. 2008). Research has shown that some babies born to women who used marijuana during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli, increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which could indicate problems with neurological development. In school, marijuana-exposed children are more likely to show gaps in problem solving skills, memory, and the ability to remain attentive. More research is needed, however, to disentangle the drug-specific factors from the environmental ones (Schempf and Strobino 2008).

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/illegaldrugs.html

Quote
What happens when a pregnant woman smokes marijuana? Marijuana crosses the placenta to your baby. Marijuana, like cigarette smoke, contains toxins that keep your baby from getting the proper supply of oxygen that he or she needs to grow.
How can marijuana affect the baby? Studies of marijuana in pregnancy are inconclusive because many women who smoke marijuana also use tobacco and alcohol. Smoking marijuana increases the levels of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide in the blood, which reduces the oxygen supply to the baby. Smoking marijuana during pregnancy can increase the chance of miscarriage, low birth weight, premature births, developmental delays, and behavioral and learning problems.

Quote
Low birthweight, short gestation, and major malformations occurred more often among offspring of marijuana users.

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.73.10.1161

Quote
When potentially confounding variables were controlled for in the analysis, the infants whose mothers had positive urine assays for marijuana, as compared with the infants whose mothers were negative according to both interviews and urine assays, had a 79-g decrease in birth weight (P = 0.04) and a 0.5-cm decrement in length (P = 0.02).

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198903233201203

Quote
Exposure to marijuana during pregnancy alters neurobehavior in the early neonatal period.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17137892

Quote
Endogenous cannabinoids use the same mechanism, engaging the CB1 cannabinoid receptor, as THC to exert their effects on nerve cells. Therefore, the finding that endogenous cannabinoids control the establishment of connections amongst certain nerve cells convinces the scientists that they have defined a key mechanism through which maternal cannabis use might impair fetal brain development and impose life-long cognitive, social, and motor deficits in affected offspring. "Besides identifying a fundamental mechanism in brain development, our findings may provide new perspectives to identifying the molecular changes in the brains of individuals prenatally affected by maternal cannabis abuse", says Dr. Tibor Harkany who has led the studies. "This is of social impact given the continuous growing use of marijuana, the most common illicit drug, in our society."

Earlier studies have already found that children of marijuana-smoking mothers more frequently suffer from permanent cognitive deficits, concentration disorders, hyperactivity, and impaired social interactions than non-exposed children of the same age and social background.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070524145037.htm

Quote
Smoking Marijuana during pregnancy has been linked to low birth weights in babies and withdrawal-like symptoms including excessive crying, tremors, hyperemesis (severe and chronic vomiting). Some studies, though not all, show that women who use marijuana even as infrequently as once a month throughout pregnancy are more likely to gain inadequate weight, to have dangerously rapid labor, prolonged or arrested labor, or a cesarean section. They are also more likely to have a baby that needs resuscitation after delivery.

Maternal marijuana use may also damage genes, possibly resulting in birth defects or cancer as well as lead to an increased risk of attention disorders and learning problems later in life. Marijuana has also been shown to adversely affect placental function and the fetal endocrine system, potentially interfering with the successful completion of pregnancy.

http://www.pregnancy-info.net/marijuana_and_pregnancy.html

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1012&sid=20737065
Quote
A new study has found that marijuana is more dangerous than the public perceives it to be, contradicting a previous study that said the opposite.

The study, published Wednesday by the British Lung Foundation, found that a cannabis cigarette is 20 times more likely to cause cancer than a tobacco cigarette.

Researchers found strong evidence of a link between the drug and diseases such as lung cancer, tuberculosis and other lung conditions. Researchers also found a strong association between the drug and heart attacks, as well as suppression of the immune system.

...and you think it is safe for a developing fetus?   Even NORML, while trying as hard as possible to whitewash away the dangers of pot, states that they would not recommend a pregnant woman smokes it.

http://norml.org/library/health-reports/item/norml-s-marijuana-health-mythology
Quote
While cannabis use is not recommended in pregnancy, it may be of medical value to some women in treating morning sickness or easing childbirth.

They believe it is irresponsible to expose children to pot.  You are way out on a limb with this stuff.

Quote
I guess we simply disagree here.  I can't think of any instances of prohibition working well in the west.

People are the same wherever they are from.  It is a tragedy that you can never wipe out drug use entirely, but like Singapore you can drastically reduce it and still have a society low in violent crime.

Quote
I'll agree that addiction can harm other people beyond the addicted.  I don't at all believe it is anywhere near the damage caused by CP.

Addiction certainly can, and does.  Both things ruin lives, and neither should be tolerated.  

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/actionlocal/story/Mom-accused-of-selling-child-for-drugs/Oh3xpbghgU69BQsRyVXKQw.cspx

Quote
JACKSONVILLE BEACH, Fla. -- Investigators call her a monster of a mom but family members are speaking out in defense of Dalina Nicholas. According to police, Nicholas sold sex with her young daughter for crack-cocaine and money.

Quote
You are lumping of drugs into one category (poison) and assuming that they all lead to addiction and abuse.  This is foolish and close minded.

Well, I don't think we have talked much about drugs beyond Marijuana, which is certainly addictive so I'm not sure what your point is.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana-abuse/marijuana-addictive

Quote
Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction; that is, people have difficulty controlling their drug use and cannot stop even though it interferes with many aspects of their lives.


"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 01:38:52 AM
 #90

As you said, providing sources doesn't mean you are right.  Thank you for providing some.  You claim my source is invalid because there is a pot leaf on it, but then you link to a bunch of gov sites that only present tiny pieces of the study to present.  The government that has spent billions on the war on the drugs has no bias, right? lol.

I want to see the actual studies. Not (solely American) blogs and government sites. At least not all of the studies are American.  Luckily, your links do provide enough to find abstracts for most of the actual data.

Your first link does not link to any actual studies.

The second link contains 2 studies.  However I don't see how either study actually proves your point.

http://cong35.sifweb.org/congresso_abs_view.php?id=163 is only testing one chemical that is in marijuana and ends with "These data confirm previous findings (Haller et al., 2009) by showing that, in adult rats, FAAH inhibition affects emotional reactivity under high stressful circumstances. Our findings suggest that selective indirect cannabinoid agonists could represent a potential target to treat social dysfunctions in neurodevelopmental diseases and could protect against the anxiogenic effects of stressful stimuli at adulthood."

So being high has an affect on reactions? No shit... However their affect could be used to TREAT SOCIAL DYSFUNCTIONS.  This means that this chemical works AGAINST anxiety. The exact opposite of increased aggression or anything like that.  That is a positive thing, not a negative.  The rats were more communicative with eachother.  I don't think rat's amount of communication when subjected to one of the myriad of chemicals in pot is a very good basis for understanding the affects of pot on a person.

The second study is covered in far better detail in the mothering.com article than in the article you linked.

Quote
In unadjusted results, all types of drug use were related to birth weight decrements and increased odds of LBW. However, only the effect of cocaine on continuous birth weight remained significant after adjusting for all associated factors (-142 g, p = 0.05). No drug was significantly related to LBW in fully adjusted models. About 70% of the unadjusted effect of cocaine use on continuous birth weight was explained by surrounding psychosocial and behavioral factors, particularly smoking and stress. Most of the unadjusted effects of opiate use were explained by smoking and lack of early prenatal care. Thus, prevention efforts that aim to improve newborn health must also address the surrounding context in which drug use frequently occurs.
I fail to see how this study proves your point about marijuana.  However, if you are pregnant, it is pretty clear that you shouldn't do heroin or cocaine.  I highly recommend you actually read the mothering.com article as it goes through all of these numbers.

Your next link has no scientific evidence, but it does say "Studies of marijuana in pregnancy are inconclusive"

You must not have actually read this abstract (Thanks for linking directly to an abstract, though).

Quote
Low birthweight, short gestation, and major malformations occurred more often among offspring of marijuana users. When we used logistic regression to control for demographic characteristics, habits, and medical history data, these relationships were not statistically significant.

This one looks to be actually on your side.  I already linked to it though, it is mentioned in the mothering.com article.  There clearly needs to be more research done as there are contradictory studies.

Well I have to go now, but I've gone through half your articles and all but one of them have the scientists on my side, not yours.

I'll link to the actual abstracts (if there are any) of the rest of the studies instead of some blogger/government opinions of the study.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5828/1212

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2499/249928/24992851.pdf

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=307&issue=2&page=173

And yes.  NORML recommends mothers don't smoke. I'm not recommending they do either.  I'm just saying that it likely does not have any long term deleterious effects. How am I way out on a limb?

But anyways, these tangents are pointless. You think alcohol should be illegal.  There is no point in continuing.  We clearly disagree on what "freedom" means.

Pot clearly destroys lungs:


Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 01:46:25 AM
 #91

Quote
You claim my source is invalid because there is a pot leaf on it, but then you link to a bunch of gov sites that only present tiny pieces of the study to present.  The government that has spent billions on the war on the drugs has no bias, right? lol.

No, there is no bias.  The government comes to these conclusions by hiring experts to study the drugs in question and the available research, and every country on the planet, even the very few ones with some form of legalization, do not think it is a good idea to expose children to marijuana.  You are not an expert on these matters, so I'm not particularly inclined to trust your judgement of what the studies show over theirs.

Quote
We clearly disagree on what "freedom" means.

If it means the freedom to poison yourself to death with drugs, yeah we don't need that one.

Quote
Pot clearly destroys lungs:

If you do not understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything, I really don't trust your ability to interpret scientific data better than expert scientists.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 01:47:44 AM
 #92

The only experts are the users, the rest are frauds.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 03:27:24 AM
 #93

Quote
You claim my source is invalid because there is a pot leaf on it, but then you link to a bunch of gov sites that only present tiny pieces of the study to present.  The government that has spent billions on the war on the drugs has no bias, right? lol.

No, there is no bias.  The government comes to these conclusions by hiring experts to study the drugs in question and the available research, and every country on the planet, even the very few ones with some form of legalization, do not think it is a good idea to expose children to marijuana.  You are not an expert on these matters, so I'm not particularly inclined to trust your judgement of what the studies show over theirs.
Did you not read all of the studies that YOU linked? You don't have to trust my judgement. Just read the abstracts and you will see that you are wrong.  I was just making it easy by bolding all the parts for you that clearly disprove your view.

Do you not understand what "treat social dysfunctions" or "only the effect of cocaine" or "not statistically significant" mean? I didn't think those terms required having a doctorate.

EDIT: You really didn't read the actual sources of what you linked, did you?

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5828/1212 is an abstract that is very academic.  However it is referenced by an abstract that is worded less technically and has more real world applications.

Given the fact that the pharmacological modulation of the eCB system has recently arisen as a promising strategy in the management of anxiety and mood disorders, the potential efficacy of this pharmacological approach (i.e. blockers of the catabolic pathway) will be discussed, as well as pharmacological alternatives such as modulators of cannabinoid receptors other than the classical CB1 receptor, or administration of other plant-derived compounds (e.g. cannabidiol).

"Promising strategy."  Now that sounds dangerous...

Now http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2499/249928/24992851.pdf does have some information that looks dangerous.  However it is only testing "marijuana cigarettes."  What about vaporizers?  That does not release any of the carcinogens or tar because nothing is burned.  Seems silly to outlaw something based on only one way of partaking, especially while tobacco is legal.

The conclusion of your last article requires no scientific knowledge to validate and is clearly not on your side.

Occasional and low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 03:39:52 AM
 #94

Once again, the highly qualified experts who have considered these studies do not agree with your views on them and do not support smoking drugs during pregnancy.  I have already linked to such experts explaining this.  I trust the views of the experts on these matters far more than your ability to interpret the studies.

When the unbiased experts and even pro-marijuana organizations like NORML agree, it's safe to say they aren't wrong.

http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana
Quote
That said, cannabis should not necessarily be viewed as a 'harmless' substance. Its active constituents may produce a variety of physiological and euphoric effects. As a result, there may be some populations that are susceptible to increased risks from the use of cannabis, such as adolescents, pregnant or nursing mothers, and patients who have a family history of mental illness. Patients with hepatitis C, decreased lung function (such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), or who have a history of heart disease or stroke may also be at a greater risk of experiencing adverse side effects from marijuana

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 03:52:02 AM
 #95

Once again, the highly qualified experts who have considered these studies do not agree with your views on them and do not support smoking drugs during pregnancy.  I have already linked to such experts explaining this.  I trust the views of the experts on these matters far more than your ability to interpret the studies.

When the unbiased experts and even pro-marijuana organizations like NORML agree, it's safe to say they aren't wrong.

http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana
Quote
That said, cannabis should not necessarily be viewed as a 'harmless' substance. Its active constituents may produce a variety of physiological and euphoric effects. As a result, there may be some populations that are susceptible to increased risks from the use of cannabis, such as adolescents, pregnant or nursing mothers, and patients who have a family history of mental illness. Patients with hepatitis C, decreased lung function (such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), or who have a history of heart disease or stroke may also be at a greater risk of experiencing adverse side effects from marijuana
I'm way past the pregnancy article, dude.  I just wanted to know what you thought about it.  I didn't say it was scripture passed down from the almighty father.

Please go back and read the abstracts and/or conclusions THAT YOU LINKED and then come back.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 03:54:27 AM
 #96

I am not a scientific expert or a medical doctor, and I would not presume to overrule the scientific consensus of experts based on reading a few abstracts any more than I would doubt the consensus on global warming and evolution. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 04:02:51 AM
 #97

I am not a scientific expert or a medical doctor, and I would not presume to overrule the scientific consensus of experts based on reading a few abstracts any more than I would doubt the consensus on global warming and evolution. 
So you will accept others' misinterpretations just because you can't be bothered to do you own research? Sure.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 04:09:12 AM
 #98

Quote
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Leave science to the experts, or you end up with people who think the earth is 6000 years old, or that aliens are visiting us, that vaccines are unsafe, and every other ridiculous thing.  You are not better at interpreting the studies than they are, it is an illusion.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 04:12:13 AM
 #99

Quote
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
What a stunningly apropos self-diagnosis of yourself, Rarity. Now would you please address my question above?

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:14:14 AM
 #100

I don't understand how you can claim my argument is invalid when I am quoting the scientists who did the research while you are quoting random government websites that have hard to find links to the research.

You don't need to be a scientists to understand "Occasional and low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function."

There is zero chance I am misinterpreting that.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 04:23:55 AM
 #101

I don't understand how you can claim my argument is invalid when I am quoting the scientists who did the research while you are quoting random government websites that have hard to find links to the research.

You don't need to be a scientists to understand "Occasional and low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function."

There is zero chance I am misinterpreting that.

Probably not, but what the unbiased experts do is keep reading instead of snipping out only the parts that support their agenda.  Someone who is arguing the opposite point from you might snip out instead:

Quote
our findings do suggest an accelerated decline in pulmonary function with heavy use and a resulting need for caution and moderation when marijuana use is considered.

...which is why it is best to leave interpreting studies to the experts.

They also weigh all the available relevant studies instead of only considering the ones that support their views, and the overwhelming weight of the research shows that marijuana is dangerous and addictive which is why the government and drug treatment experts write what they do. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:29:50 AM
 #102

I don't understand how you can claim my argument is invalid when I am quoting the scientists who did the research while you are quoting random government websites that have hard to find links to the research.

You don't need to be a scientists to understand "Occasional and low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function."

There is zero chance I am misinterpreting that.

Probably not, but what the unbiased experts do is keep reading instead of snipping out only the parts that support their agenda.  Someone who is arguing the opposite point from you might snip out instead:

Quote
our findings do suggest an accelerated decline in pulmonary function with heavy use and a resulting need for caution and moderation when marijuana use is considered.

...which is why it is best to leave interpreting studies to the experts.

They also weigh all the available relevant studies instead of only considering the ones that support their views, and the overwhelming weight of the research shows that marijuana is dangerous and addictive which is why the government and drug treatment experts write what they do.  
Not probably not. There is ZERO chance that is being misinterpreted.  Maybe those scientist's data is wrong and so their conculsion is wrong.  But I am 100% guaranteed that I am not (even without being called an expert) misinterpreting their conclusion.

I literally just copy/pasted the conclusion as written by the original scientists.

Heavy use of ANYTHING is dangerous.  They use the terms CAUTION and MODERATION, not abstinence. You see that right?

EDIT: I wasted my "leet" post on this Sad

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 04:44:49 AM
 #103

Quote
Not probably not. There is ZERO chance that is being misinterpreted.

If you take it to mean that marijuana use is safe, you are definitely misinterpreting it.  It was a lie of omission. 

The reason addiction is a problem is that it short circuits people's ability to moderate their use.  If you just smoked a few cigarettes you would be perfectly fine, but they are still rightfully regarded as a deadly product.  Marijuana can also lead to poor decision making and paranoia and aggressive tendencies that led to Martin attacking Zimmerman, even one use is dangerous and the only benefit is short term fun that you can find in healthy activities instead.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:53:27 AM
 #104

Quote
Not probably not. There is ZERO chance that is being misinterpreted.

If you take it to mean that marijuana use is safe, you are definitely misinterpreting it.  It was a lie of omission.  

The reason addiction is a problem is that it short circuits people's ability to moderate their use.  If you just smoked a few cigarettes you would be perfectly fine, but they are still rightfully regarded as a deadly product.  Marijuana can also lead to poor decision making and paranoia and aggressive tendencies that led to Martin attacking Zimmerman, even one use is dangerous and the only benefit is short term fun that you can find in healthy activities instead.
Lie of omission? What?

I don't take this one study alone to mean marijuana use is safe.  I take it to mean that scientists are trying to figure it out and so far according to all but ONE of the studies linked here (that now both of us have at least read the abstract of), moderate use is not dangerous.  According to some of the secondary sources that you directly linked to that reference the actual science, marijuana is dangerous.  However those people making the claims ARE NOT THE EXPERTS.  The scientists who published the articles are the experts.

I still say that one man being potentially killed because of being high when AT LEAST 1/3 of the country has smoked pot is a fringe case at best and not worthy of prohibition.  Most of California and the 10 (I think) other states with medicinal marijuana would be full of kids being shot on their walk home from 7/11 otherwise.

Not only that, but it has not been proven at all by the courts. It looks to me that the pot is just as likely to have caused this tragedy as the skittles in his hand or the hoodie on his back.

You are alleging that Martin attacked Zimmerman.  I have yet to see proof of this. This is something that the courts have not said.

But Hey! Look at that! Back on topic (kinda)! We did it Rarity!

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 05:17:21 AM
 #105

Quote
According to some of the secondary sources that you directly linked to that reference the actual science, marijuana is dangerous.  However those people making the claims ARE NOT THE EXPERTS.  The scientists who published the articles are the experts.

The scientific consensus of the experts is that marijuana poses considerable health risks.  You are the one claiming it is safe, not them.  You can't cherry pick lines from studies and say that means the experts agree with you when they are clearly saying otherwise.  Every time I point to such experts, you claim they don't count, so I'm not sure why I should continue to do so, but here you go:

http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/marijuana-faq.html
Quote
What mental or physical problems can marijuana use cause?

According to the 2011 World Drug Report, cannabis products can produce temporary symptoms of psychosis, loss of ability to learn or remember recent events, reduced ability to carry out certain mental tasks, make certain decisions and pay attention. There is a growing body of evidence that suggests that a person who starts using cannabis early and uses is heavily could run an increased risk of psychotic disorders. Physically, marijuana smokers have risks similar to those of smokers: bronchitis, emphysema, asthma. Extensive use can cause suppression of the immune system and can increase the risk of cancer to the head, neck and lungs.

A report in Spain stated that they had found a link between heavy marijuana use and psychosis that starts during adolescence. Researchers ruled out any connection to use of other drugs.


http://www.globaldrugpolicy.org/Issues/Vol%203%20Issue%202/Review%20of%20the%20Research.pdf

Quote
In addition to the unknown extent of the potential for harm caused by existence and interaction of over 800 natural chemical
components of marijuana, including 70 cannabinoids, it can be concluded that marijuana does pose some
considerable confirmed risks to users.
Some concern over marijuana is merited by findings regarding its
ability to create short-term impairment, specifically on driving ability. Academic performance and social
development appear to be negatively affected by marijuana use, but the causal role that the drug plays in
the lack of future success of young people remains unconfirmed. As expected, smoking the drug
contributes to considerable harm to the lungs and airways. Even though the use of vaporizers removes
the contaminants of combustion and reduces some major respiratory problems, THC exposure to the
lungs appears to be unhealthy. The immune system is also compromised by the use of marijuana,
specifically the ability of the lungs to defend against foreign pathogens. Although cancers, heart
problems, and threats to human reproduction are not common among marijuana users, most experts
contend that further investigation is required, and the potential for risk should not be dismissed. The
development of psychosis and later schizophrenia should also remain a concern for a small proportion of
those who use marijuana. Dependency and regular, long-term use of the drug are also factors that likely
exacerbate the potential for the majority of the harms previously identified in this review. Of course, these
harms are often compounded by the fact the marijuana users have an increased likelihood of continuing
on to other illicit drugs.

Looking at all the evidence leads to the conclusion that some of the users will have their lives severely disrupted by the drug.  Recreational use is not worth the cost of sacrificing the lives of some of the users and the harm it will do to their families.

You will note that what the experts conclude about potential damage to the heart is that more studied is needed because they are not confident it is safe.  What you do with a study is cherry pick out a line and say it means marijuana should be legal.  Nope, the experts have their concerns because they also look at the parts of the study that you want to ignore.

There are just too many potential dangers and no medical benefits to allowing recreational pot use.  

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 05:37:40 AM
 #106

Quote
According to some of the secondary sources that you directly linked to that reference the actual science, marijuana is dangerous.  However those people making the claims ARE NOT THE EXPERTS.  The scientists who published the articles are the experts.

The scientific consensus of the experts is that marijuana poses considerable health risks.  You are the one claiming it is safe, not them.  You can't cherry pick lines from studies and say that means the experts agree with you when they are clearly saying otherwise.  Every time I point to such experts, you claim they don't count, so I'm not sure why I should continue to do so, but here you go:

http://www.globaldrugpolicy.org/Issues/Vol%203%20Issue%202/Review%20of%20the%20Research.pdf

Quote
In addition to the unknown extent of the potential for harm caused by existence and interaction of over 800 natural chemical
components of marijuana, including 70 cannabinoids, it can be concluded that marijuana does pose some
considerable confirmed risks to users.
Some concern over marijuana is merited by findings regarding its
ability to create short-term impairment, specifically on driving ability. Academic performance and social
development appear to be negatively affected by marijuana use, but the causal role that the drug plays in
the lack of future success of young people remains unconfirmed. As expected, smoking the drug
contributes to considerable harm to the lungs and airways. Even though the use of vaporizers removes
the contaminants of combustion and reduces some major respiratory problems, THC exposure to the
lungs appears to be unhealthy. The immune system is also compromised by the use of marijuana,
specifically the ability of the lungs to defend against foreign pathogens. Although cancers, heart
problems, and threats to human reproduction are not common among marijuana users, most experts
contend that further investigation is required, and the potential for risk should not be dismissed. The
development of psychosis and later schizophrenia should also remain a concern for a small proportion of
those who use marijuana. Dependency and regular, long-term use of the drug are also factors that likely
exacerbate the potential for the majority of the harms previously identified in this review. Of course, these
harms are often compounded by the fact the marijuana users have an increased likelihood of continuing
on to other illicit drugs.

Looking at all the evidence leads to the conclusion that some of the users will have their lives severely disrupted by the drug.  Recreational use is not worth the cost of sacrificing the lives of some of the users and the harm it will do to their families.

You will note that what the experts conclude about potential damage to the heart is that more studied is needed because they are not confident it is safe.  What you do with a study is cherry pick out a line and say it means marijuana should be legal.  Nope, the experts have their concerns because they also look at the parts of the study that you want to ignore.

There are just too many potential dangers and no medical benefits to allowing recreational pot use.  

You haven't been pointing to the experts.  You've been pointing to people who are pointing to the experts.

You accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you glossed over the abstract.

Quote
Some consensus over the potential harms needs to be reached before any meaningful discussion can occur on this issue. This article reviews research published between 2000 and 2007 and suggests that there are many risks associated to marijuana use with regards to impairment, academic and social development, general and mental health, and continued drug use. Although some findings highlight very serious concerns for users, the numbers that become adversely affected by marijuana use do not represent the majority of users.

I'm not sure how you jump to the conclusion that your opinion is the scientific consensus when the article you are quoting says there is not one (at least as of 2007).  There is a lot of contradictory evidence on both sides.

I'm not saying that kids should smoke and then go to school.  I'm not saying that expecting mothers should smoke a blunt all day every day. I've never said pot has zero negative effects.  I'm saying prohibition is stupid.  Especially prohibition of something that is requiring a lot of studies to find negative effects that have yet to be conclusive and likely only apply to a small minority of the population.

I'd be willing to bet there are far more people with deadly food allergies than people that will violently assault someone when under the effects of marijuana or "marijuana withdrawal."

It's pretty clear that tobacco causes lung cancer and alcohol destroys livers, but the studies about pot mostly all say that more investigation is required.  It also seems like more of the studies are testing single chemicals on rats rather than looking at the affects of the whole drug on people.

Only one of the sourced abstracts mentions anything about aggressive behavior (which is what got us on this tangent in the first place).  It is titled "preliminary findings suggest a mechanism for cannabis-induced violence" and is a preliminary study with only five subjects and no control group.

Gladamas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 250


Bitcoin today is what the internet was in 1998.


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 05:51:23 AM
 #107

Guys this is getting really off topic, the question is what is the best way to donate to Zimmerman's defense fund? (Not that I think he isn't guilty, which he is...)

1GLADMZ5tL4HkS6BAWPfJLeZJCDHAd9Fr3 - LQ6Zx8v7fHVBiDX5Lmhbp6oEDB7dUFjANu
GPG 0xF219D5BB3C467E12 - Litecoin Forum
cgpgroup
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 02:12:44 PM
 #108

So the guy is caught on record committing perjury, stalked and murdered a child, and even if he was innocent of everything is too dumb to not make himself look guilty as fuck (he is), and you still want to give him money?


You sir, are a saint who will receive the highest reward in Aryan Heaven

That's a pretty massive misunderstanding of what happened.  Zimmerman was trying to get the police there to handle the situation, you don't call the police right before you "stalk and murder" someone.  Like it or not, the truth is Martin attacked him and Zimmerman defended himself from having his head slammed into the concrete.

The problem here is with the law, it should not be legal for private citizens to carry firearms like that.  A tazer or pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable form of self defense, they should leave the guns out of the equation and then this never would have happened.  Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

Did you dry your piss and smoke it? WTF...

Checkout the most amazing affiliate program http://onehourwin.com/
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 02:27:46 PM
 #109

Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.
Here in parts of America everyone carries a gun. I would be very unwise for a cop to do their job unarmed. Of course since we are all armed we don't really need them much.

P.S. I would not donate to GZ as I think he was trying to get away with taking his paypal donations.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 976
Merit: 1000


Create Your Decentralized Life


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 03:03:25 PM
 #110

Quote
I know however that USA spends more than anyone on drug prohibition and jails more than any country (per capita and total)

Spending a lot isn't necessarily a sign of doing things right or not.  America spends more on healthcare than other countries, more than it would under a socialized system that would work better.


Exactly my point thanks.  Putting 3 million people in jail as political prisoners (thats what you call it when there is no victim) makes things worse as you say, and costs a lot.  The people who suffer are often the children and families as you point out.   

I can see people have ganged up on you here so I'll cut it short.  You said at one point you like to help your fellow man.  And yet you are also saying we should arrest people for consensual adult behavior, in which no victim has come forth to complain, and punish them harshly.  Don't you see the contradiction?  Do you see two satisfied people who have done business together with no complaints and this reminds you of child porn or murder?  I hope not. 

You seem to have the need to point out that drugs are dangerous.  That is -my- point.  Of course they are.  Too dangerous to leave in the hands of criminals.  Prohibition makes them still more dangerous and eliminates our ability to regulate, put age limits, quality limits, volume limits, etc. 

Do you really want to help your fellow man, or would you rather see your fellow man locked up, families broken up, and corrupt politicians and drug dealers running your prison? 

   

 

        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 03:43:08 PM
 #111

I started another topic on the drug war in an attempt to help this thread stay on track.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87810.0

Cheers.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1479


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:02:13 PM
 #112

Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.
Of course since we are all armed we don't really need them much.


Zimmerman didn't need a cop - he just judged and murdered that boy on his own.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)
$$ Our donation wallet information $$
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1006



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:41:04 PM
 #113

It's very sad to see how many people will just believe everything Ryan Julison wants them to believe without doing any research or fact-checking on their own.
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 04:47:28 PM
 #114

I started another topic on the drug war in an attempt to help this thread stay on track.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87810.0

Cheers.

Thanks.  I didn't intend to go so far off topic.  I just can't stand when someone presents a truck load of evidence and then don't actually read it and a bunch of it ends up supporting the other sides argument.

Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.
Of course since we are all armed we don't really need them much.


Zimmerman didn't need a cop - he just judged and murdered that boy on his own.
Rarity, I thought you said you were in Florida? I guess that must have been someone else.

mlawrence, you don't know Zimmerman didn't need a cop! Both sides of this debate need to start using words like "allegedly"


Back on Topic:

Does anyone know if the money hidden by Zimmerman and/or his wife was the money donated to the defense fund?  Did anyone here donate to it? How do you feel about your money being hidden instead of being used to actually defend him in court (if that is in fact the case)?

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 06:52:45 PM
 #115

Quote
You haven't been pointing to the experts.  You've been pointing to people who are pointing to the experts.

You accuse me of cherry picking, and yet you glossed over the abstract.

The study, by experts, is looking at the evidence to find the consensus.  They conclude there are considerable risks, like all the other experts do.  As I said, any time I point to the experts views on the studies you go "NUH UH THEY AREN'T EXPERTS!" so this is entirely pointless.  You think you know better than the scientists, you are making a faith based argument it is impossible to debate.

Quote
I'm not saying that kids should smoke and then go to school.  I'm not saying that expecting mothers should smoke a blunt all day every day. I've never said pot has zero negative effects.  I'm saying prohibition is stupid.  Especially prohibition of something that is requiring a lot of studies to find negative effects that have yet to be conclusive and likely only apply to a small minority of the population.

The scientists disagree with you, and state there are considerable risks to using this drug.  Your opinion is not a substitute for scientific fact.

Quote
I'd be willing to bet there are far more people with deadly food allergies than people that will violently assault someone when under the effects of marijuana or "marijuana withdrawal."

Food is necessary to sustain life.  People who are allergic to a food product simply avoid it, as milk and eggs are not addictive drugs like Marijuana.  This is what separates the two products.  As for your "bet", I think we should stick with what the scientists say, that there are considerable risks to using the drug, instead of your opinions.

Quote
It's pretty clear that tobacco causes lung cancer and alcohol destroys livers, but the studies about pot mostly all say that more investigation is required.  It also seems like more of the studies are testing single chemicals on rats rather than looking at the affects of the whole drug on people.

And yet the experts say there are considerable risks. 

Quote
Only one of the sourced abstracts mentions anything about aggressive behavior (which is what got us on this tangent in the first place).  It is titled "preliminary findings suggest a mechanism for cannabis-induced violence" and is a preliminary study with only five subjects and no control group.

Pretty much any look at all the studies leads to the conclusion that pot can cause paranoia and panic attacks, which can easily make someone make aggressive bad decisions about someone who has no ill intent towards them.

Quote
Here in England the police don't even need to carry guns and they still manage to do their jobs.

Did you dry your piss and smoke it? WTF...

It's common knowledge dude, even outside England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom
Quote
In the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms, except in special circumstances. This originates from the formation of the Metropolitan Police Service in the 19th century, when police were not armed, partly to counter public fears and objections concerning armed enforcers as this had been previously seen due to the British Army maintaining order when needed. The arming of police in the United Kingdom is a perennial topic of debate.

Most officers are instead issued with other items for personal defence, such as Speedcuffs, Extendable "ASP" Baton, and incapacitant sprays such as PAVA or CS spray. While not a firearm, CS spray is subject to some of the same rules and regulations as a projectile firing firearm under Section 5 (b) of the Firearms Act 1968.[1]

Quote
Here in parts of America everyone carries a gun. I would be very unwise for a cop to do their job unarmed.

Right, which is why we need to get rid of those guns first. I'm okay with waiting on that to stop having the cops carry them.

Quote
Exactly my point thanks.  Putting 3 million people in jail as political prisoners (thats what you call it when there is no victim) makes things worse as you say, and costs a lot.

Exactly, it's better to put users in mandatory inpatient treatment programs.  You can save some money over imprisonment and have a better chance of not having to arrest them again.  The distributors though, should definitely be in jail.  They are knowingly harming the addicts for profit and it can't be tolerated.  Even places like the Netherlands don't tolerate the trafficking.

Quote
You said at one point you like to help your fellow man.  And yet you are also saying we should arrest people for consensual adult behavior, in which no victim has come forth to complain, and punish them harshly.

I don't believe helping someone to solve their drug problem is punishing them, addiction is not a consensual behavior.  It's a compulsion brought on by a poison, and it harms the children and other family members of the addicts as well as the addicts themselves.

Quote
Do you see two satisfied people who have done business together with no complaints and this reminds you of child porn or murder?  I hope not. 

I see one person who has exploited another person by selling them an addictive product that will compel them to by more even if they want to stop.  Addicts routinely end up selling their bodies to get more drugs, the connection between sexual exploitation and drug abuse is real and scary.

http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/5/25/pinellas_sheriff_tee.html
Quote
The Pinellas County Sheriff released a lot more information about a Palm Harbor man accused of procuring teenage runaway prostitutes and giving them meth.

“These 16-year-olds engaged in these prostitution activities at least 10 times,” said Sheriff Bob Gualtieri.

Quote

You seem to have the need to point out that drugs are dangerous.  That is -my- point.  Of course they are.  Too dangerous to leave in the hands of criminals.  Prohibition makes them still more dangerous and eliminates our ability to regulate, put age limits, quality limits, volume limits, etc. 

Legalization has still left us with 75,000 deaths a year from Alcohol and 443,000 yearly from cigarettes so I'm not exactly impressed with your claims that legalization is going to solve anything. 

Selling to the underage is rampant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_by_youth_in_the_United_States
Quote
Young females attempted to buy beer without an ID at liquor, grocery or convenience stores:

    In 47–52% of the attempts, beer was sold. (1, 2)
    Nearly 80% of all the stores sold beer to the buyers at least once in three attempts; nearly 25% sold beer all three times.(1)

When young females attempted to buy beer without an ID at bars or restaurants, 50% of the attempts resulted in a sale to the buyer.(2)

When young males and females attempted to buy beer without an ID at community festivals, 50% of the attempts resulted in a sale to the buyer.(3)

Underage drinking is a major public health problem.

Quote
Rarity, I thought you said you were in Florida? I guess that must have been someone else.

I said I'm originally from Clearwater, my work took me to England.

Quote
I just can't stand when someone presents a truck load of evidence and then don't actually read it and a bunch of it ends up supporting the other sides argument.

Pure denialism, the scientists who have looked at the bulk of the evidence have identified considerable risk.  Cherry picking out lines from studies does not change that.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
sd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 730
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 15, 2012, 07:29:10 PM
 #116

Legalization has still left us with 75,000 deaths a year from Alcohol and 443,000 yearly from cigarettes so I'm not exactly impressed with your claims that legalization is going to solve anything. 

Those are amazing statistics. Not trolling but something should be done to reduce those deaths, I honestly don't know what and don't believe in banning things.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 07:34:58 PM
 #117

Legalization has still left us with 75,000 deaths a year from Alcohol and 443,000 yearly from cigarettes so I'm not exactly impressed with your claims that legalization is going to solve anything.  

Those are amazing statistics. Not trolling but something should be done to reduce those deaths, I honestly don't know what and don't believe in banning things.



It gets even worse when you consider the addicts that are still living, but in misery while blowing a significant amount of money on their addiction and/or living with associated diseases.  Or think about all the alcoholics who have endangered everyone by drunk driving, or even killed people.  Or those who lost their job and relationships due to their addiction. 

Imagine if heroin addicts (and impressionable kids and teenagers) had to see professional ads for heroin, see it in the stores, see people using it openly.  It's not a recipe for getting people off it.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 15, 2012, 09:12:05 PM
 #118

Move your comments about drugs to other topic please!

Back on Topic:

Does anyone know if the money hidden by Zimmerman and/or his wife was the money donated to the defense fund?  Did anyone here donate to it? How do you feel about your money being hidden instead of being used to actually defend him in court (if that is in fact the case)?

hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 976
Merit: 1000


Create Your Decentralized Life


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 09:20:17 PM
 #119

Thanks for your replies.  It is helpful to hear the mindset from somebody who truly believes in prohibition as a potential help to society (I take that at face value).

So often the prohibitionists are the ones motivated by corruption, short term personal wealth, or fear, and represent the height of hyposcrisy, and so such a voice as you present is unusual so thanks again for your posts.

As you probably know from the history of drug prohibition, it is usually created as a policy for other political ends, e.g. prison investors who want more customers, cocaine dealers who want competition eliminated and profits increased, foreign invaders who wish to imprison certain segments of the population and control markets, as a mean to eliminate competing medicines or raw materials, etc. etc.  

Your point about previous prohibitions and decriminalizations is well taken: while anecdotal evidence may be overwhelming to suggest that lifting prohibition immediately decreases violence and benefits society immensely these are not controlled experiments, and harm from the prohibited substances was not eliminated.  One cannot point to this as "proof".

Consider instead a purchase you have made in the last few days.  Now imagine that I claim this contains "poison" and suggest that you be arrested, comparing your purchase to murder or child porn.  Ridiculous?  Yes.  Angry?  Yes.  Guess what.  It doesn't matter.  My argument that the plastic, the carbon released, the addictive nature of the behavior it spawns, might be right or wrong, but in the end it doesn't matter because when the police come to your house they don't care if the plastic was really bad, or even if you really made that purchase!  

You may think it is OK that they go after the nicotine users, rip apart their families, and steal their posessions, because you are not a nicotine user.  But in the end, when you or your children are facing uniformed young men with weapons, your cries that you are "not a user" will be treated the same way as cries of women in who said "we are not witches" or germans who said "we are not jews".  They will be ignored, and then you will join the again increasingly large segment of society who are victims of fascism.  And you will be able to do nothing, because you didn't stand up against it when you had the chance.  

Best of luck to you -    


  


        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          



        ▄▄███████████▄▄      
     ▄██████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄   
    ████▀             ▀████▄ 
  ▄███▀    ▄▄▄████▄▄    ▀████
▐███     ██████████▀     ███▌
 ███▌    ██████▀▀        ▄███▌
▐███    ▐████▄      ▄▄▄██████▌
▐███▌  ▄████████▄▄██████████▀
████████▀█████████████▀▀▀   
  ████▌    ▀▀██████▀▀      ▄▄
   ▀████▄              ▄▄████▌
     ▀█████▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██████▀▀
       ▀▀██████████████▀▀    
             ▀▀▀▀▀▀          
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 15, 2012, 09:58:45 PM
 #120

I think it's amazingly hyperbolic to compare police officers trying to save people from addiction to Nazis. It's also very historically off base, alcohol prohibition was a policy of progressives and advocates for women's rights, for example, not of fascists or similar right wing groups.  They famously met in German beer halls.  Concern for the well being of our fellow men is a hallmark of the left.

Quote
As you probably know from the history of drug prohibition, it is usually created as a policy for other political ends, e.g. prison investors who want more customers, cocaine dealers who want competition eliminated and profits increased, foreign invaders who wish to imprison certain segments of the population and control markets, as a mean to eliminate competing medicines or raw materials, etc. etc.  

I don't really agree with this at all.  I am not aware of any prohibitions that have been created by prison investors, as private prisons themselves are a relatively new concept.  Or by cocaine dealers or pharmaceutical/material companies fearing competition.  Foreign invaders have been more likely to promote addiction as a tool of oppression, see the opium wars as an example where the British used the opium trade to their advantage creating an outbreak of addiction for the Chinese to deal with.  Or consider the role of alcohol in the American triangle trade --  Molasses from the Caribbean to make rum in New England, rum to Africa to buy slaves, slaves to the Caribbean to grow sugar, sugar and molasses to make rum in New England...A cycle of oppression powered by alcohol.


"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 18, 2012, 06:07:36 PM
 #121

It looks like we should have kept our off topic drug conversation going on here since no one seem to care about the OP.

Does anyone know if the money hidden by Zimmerman and/or his wife was the money donated to the defense fund?  Did anyone here donate to it? How do you feel about your money being hidden instead of being used to actually defend him in court (if that is in fact the case)?

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 19, 2012, 05:44:57 AM
 #122

Paranoia is a driver of aggressive behavior.  It seems clear Martin's drug induced paranoia and aggression are what led to his attack on Zimmerman, who just wanted to get the police in to handle the situation.  If he had reacted shyly instead of attacking, you might have a point.

Allergic reactions to milk are a minority experience, but when they start puking you don't throw up your hands and blame something else.

Quote
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was admittedly on two drugs at the time, one of which causes aggression in a far higher percentage of test subjects than marijuana (Adderall / Amphetamine). Beyond this, Zimmerman has a history of making strange and paranoid callings to the police over non-issues (911 over potholes, for example).

Zimmerman did not react aggressively however, he was calling the police to the scene before he was attacked.  As for the potholes, large enough ones that "block the road" as he stated, are indeed a public danger.  That is not at all strange and was likely before he was even on these drugs.

As I said, many times before in this thread which is all just a rehash now, I am aware psychiatric drugs are dangerous poisons and I hope Zimmerman gets off them, but there is no evidence they played any role in this incident.  He was a part of the neighborhood watch, calling the police are what they are supposed to do, and what he was doing when Martin attacked him.  If the police considered him a nuisance caller, they can fine people to get them to stop abusing the system.  They obviously did not feel this was the case.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
BadBear
v2.0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1005



View Profile WWW
June 19, 2012, 06:29:07 AM
 #123

Quote
It seems clear Martin's drug induced paranoia and aggression are what led to his attack on Zimmerman

Quote
I am aware psychiatric drugs are dangerous poisons and I hope Zimmerman gets off them, but there is no evidence they played any role in this incident

Does not compute.

1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
Nachtwind
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 502



View Profile
June 19, 2012, 07:41:23 AM
 #124

Defending a white racist murderer? Whats next? A childrape help fund to aid the church?
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 19, 2012, 06:26:05 PM
 #125

Defending a whiteLatino and possibly racist murderer? Whats next? A childrape help fund to aid the church?
FTFY

Not that I think race has to do with this, but w/e


I still want an answer to my question that is actually on topic.

Back on Topic:

Does anyone know if the money hidden by Zimmerman and/or his wife was the money donated to the defense fund?  Did anyone here donate to it? How do you feel about your money being hidden instead of being used to actually defend him in court (if that is in fact the case)?

RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 19, 2012, 07:45:39 PM
 #126

Is walking around at night illegal?
Is following someone illegal?
Is assault illegal?

This has always been about who threw the first punch.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Nachtwind
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 502



View Profile
June 19, 2012, 08:10:01 PM
 #127

This has always been about who threw the first punch.

And what about the adequatness of means used? Ok, even IF someone punched someone in the head - does that legitimate for murder? Well, ok, guess in the USA it really IS about who threw the first punch.. in a culture not so adapted to weapon use the question would rather be: was the use of deadly force appropiate?

*edited to sound less arrogant*
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1006



View Profile WWW
June 19, 2012, 08:11:35 PM
 #128

This story has only been about propaganda and agendas every since it broke on the national news. The truth and the facts of what happened were the first casualties of the media campaign.
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 19, 2012, 08:14:35 PM
 #129

This has always been about who threw the first punch.

And what about the adequatness of means used? Ok, even IF someone punched someone in the head - does that legitimate for murder? Well, ok, guess in the USA it really IS about who threw the first punch.. but any civilised (in terms of weapon handling etc) culture wouldnt ask that, they would rather ask: Was it appropriate to shoot someone?
Good points. The judge may differ, but in my opinion if TM was banging GZ's head against the pavement he can reasonably consider his life in danger and use deadly force. He could not shoot him for a punch, but who threw the first punch is critical because you can fight back with punches and those things tend to escalate.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Nachtwind
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 502



View Profile
June 19, 2012, 08:31:35 PM
 #130

Good points. The judge may differ, but in my opinion if TM was banging GZ's head against the pavement he can reasonably consider his life in danger and use deadly force. He could not shoot him for a punch, but who threw the first punch is critical because you can fight back with punches and those things tend to escalate.

Then another matter arises: How to shoot someone if your head is banged upon the pavement? If you are in mortal danger due to a melee fight you shouldnt be able anymore to take a weapon, aim and shoot. So if you are in a melee fight and your life is in mortal danger, then most obviously you will die or beat down your opponent in the very same melee. If your opponent releases you you are no longer in mortal danger or if you finally beat down the opponent you arent in mortal danger anymore either.
Thats the point about mortal danger: Either you die or you win automatically. No need to shoot someone in the back (metaphorically). (all IMHO)
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 19, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
 #131

Good points. The judge may differ, but in my opinion if TM was banging GZ's head against the pavement he can reasonably consider his life in danger and use deadly force. He could not shoot him for a punch, but who threw the first punch is critical because you can fight back with punches and those things tend to escalate.

Then another matter arises: How to shoot someone if your head is banged upon the pavement? If you are in mortal danger due to a melee fight you shouldnt be able anymore to take a weapon, aim and shoot. So if you are in a melee fight and your life is in mortal danger, then most obviously you will die or beat down your opponent in the very same melee. If your opponent releases you you are no longer in mortal danger or if you finally beat down the opponent you arent in mortal danger anymore either.
Thats the point about mortal danger: Either you die or you win automatically. No need to shoot someone in the back (metaphorically). (all IMHO)
Finally some logic. Do we know how many shots hit TM, and where they were located?

For example, someone who is getting their head banged on the pavement is not going to be able to aim accurately enough to kill on the first shot with a bullet to the head. He could however do some body damage.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 19, 2012, 11:44:31 PM
 #132

The hoops you jump through are shocking.

Aggression is a statistically significant side effect of amphetamines; it is a statistically insignificant side effect of marijuana. Your milk analogy is flawed. If two completely random people are in a room and one drinks a glass of milk and one drinks a 1L bottle of Vodka, and then both leave with just a pile of puke on the floor, who do you think did it?

I have linked the scientific experts who say aggression is a side effect, I'm not going to rehash all that.  It's been done, you can't make it untrue via repitition.  What we have is the knowledge that Martin attacked and that he was on illegal drugs without doctor supervision as Zimmerman was, we don't need to guess who puked, we can see Zimmerman's injuries and the witness accounts.  We can see that he was trying to get the police on the scene.  We don't have to guess.

Quote
Paranoia, in the sense that it affects most pot smokers, does not translate to aggression.

Well that's an interesting opinion and all, but the experts say the facts disagree.  Some people are sedated, but since we know Martin instead violently attacked someone it is clear that was not his reaction to the drug.

http://ncpic.org.au/ncpic/publications/factsheets/article/cannabis-and-aggression

Quote
However, sometimes when people use cannabis it can cause fear, anxiety, panic or paranoia, resulting in an aggressive outburst.


Quote
I'm guessing that you've never smoked weed or really even been friends with someone who has.

I am happy to say I have not.  Early intervention through a drug education program taught me to avoid the pitfalls of dangerous, unnecessary products.  I have a fulfilling career, happy family, and a fun and stimulating life without having to resort to poisoning and endangering myself with drugs.

Quote
The way you talk about marijuana not only shows that you misunderstand the studies you quote, but that you have sheltered yourself so far from this lifestyle that you oppose that you lack a basic understanding of a drug that is very commonly used substance in our society and one of the more widely understood illicit substances out there.

I am not relying on my own interpretations?  I don't want to rehash the thread, but I'm not a scientists I don't go over the studies myself.  Experts in government and medicine are the ones I am citing.  They have reviewed the information and concluded this drug poses significant risks of addiction and disease.

Growing up in Florida I had friends who used every drug out there, and I've been around them all my life.  You know what I learned?  I'm not the one missing out, they are.  Drug users waste their money and their health and their relationships in pursuit of a terribly unfufilling, zombified state of numbness and stupidity.  I'd rather stay on the bridge to freedom and clarity.

Quote
You do realize that many, many people smoke weed, right? If weed affects the body the way you seem to think it does, we would probably see more violence attributed to it, but we almost never do because it doesn't work that way.

You are naive and sad, we do see it, it does work that way.

Quote
In 2008 researchers interviewed and obtained urine samples from 3,924 men arrested in 10 metropolitan areas: Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Denver, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, New York, Portland, Ore., Sacramento and Washington, D.C.

In Chicago, 87% tested positive for drug use and in Sacramento, 78% tested positive. Many of the men — 40% in Chicago and 29% in Sacramento — tested positive for more than one drug.

Marijuana is the most common drug in every city where testing was done except Atlanta, where cocaine is most prevalent, the study found.

Violent criminals use drugs, and marijuana is their most favorite.  Marijuana is also a gateway to the other drugs.  

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-05-27-arrestees_N.htm

Quote
You know the movie Reefer Madness isn't scientifically accurate, right? You're taking tiny statistically insignificant samples and trying to make them match the idea you have already formed of weed.

Yes, I am getting my information from well informed experts, not pop culture and stoner legend, which seems to be your source.

Quote
No wonder you're so authoritarian and want everything prohibited. You are so unwilling to open your mind that you won't even attempt to form conclusions based on logic if they contradict your preconceived notions. Honestly, it becomes offensive the way people like you want to control every last part of our lives, more so when it becomes clear how little you actually know.

Freedom to be ruled by addictive, dangerous drugs is no freedom at all.

Quote
Anyway, back to Zimmerman and moving on from the drug argument: Another big part of the puzzle that points to Zimmerman is his past behavior. You can't really believe that healthy or balanced individuals call 911 over a pothole! Have you ever dialed 911? They don't want to be called about potholes; there is a non-emergency number for things like that.

Had he been considered a nuisance caller, they would have fined him and made him stop calling.  They did not.  They are the experts on what calls are appropriate to be taking in their own system.  The pothole thing was one call in 2005, and you're convicting him for murder over it?  Now THAT is a scary authoritarian thought.

Quote
I'm sure his strange behavior did occur before he was on drugs too. But drugs are even worse for imbalanced people than they are for healthy people and the fact that much of his crazy behavior (past and present) has occurred while not on drugs, only makes one wonder how bad he gets when he's on a drug that is known to heighten aggression levels. Person with known and documented mental imbalance with strains of vigilantism + aggression heightening drug + gun = what? The voice of reason? Hmm... somehow I have a hard time seeing that.

You don't convict someone based on past behavior.  You convict them based on what actually happened.  What happened is that Zimmerman tried to call the police to help and was attacked, had his nose broken, and his head slammed into concrete.  It doesn't matter if you find he did something in the past, or if Martin said something the other side didn't like on Facebook.  


"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 20, 2012, 06:10:55 PM
 #133

Good points. The judge may differ, but in my opinion if TM was banging GZ's head against the pavement he can reasonably consider his life in danger and use deadly force. He could not shoot him for a punch, but who threw the first punch is critical because you can fight back with punches and those things tend to escalate.

Then another matter arises: How to shoot someone if your head is banged upon the pavement? If you are in mortal danger due to a melee fight you shouldnt be able anymore to take a weapon, aim and shoot. So if you are in a melee fight and your life is in mortal danger, then most obviously you will die or beat down your opponent in the very same melee. If your opponent releases you you are no longer in mortal danger or if you finally beat down the opponent you arent in mortal danger anymore either.
Thats the point about mortal danger: Either you die or you win automatically. No need to shoot someone in the back (metaphorically). (all IMHO)
Finally some logic. Do we know how many shots hit TM, and where they were located?

For example, someone who is getting their head banged on the pavement is not going to be able to aim accurately enough to kill on the first shot with a bullet to the head. He could however do some body damage.
Yeah, I don't know how many shots or to where? I seriously doubt that any aiming went on. Defensive gunfights are dirty messy affairs, nothing like the sanitized and heroic stuff you see on TV. If there is only one gun involved then you don't have a gunfight, you have a fight over a gun. There is no aiming you just try to point that barrel at any part of the assailant and blow it off. Generally the shock of being shot will take the fight out of an attacker and allow follow up shots.
Gun owners serious about defense practice gun retention and firing offhand from the floor. The time to come up with a plan about how you will fight if you have been shot first is not during a gunfight.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 20, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
 #134


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/342834/20120518/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-shot-evidence-photos.htm

Quote
New documents released in the Trayvon Martin case showed that George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, shot the 17 year old through the chest, piercing his heart and lung. Zimmerman was also bloody and had wounds, evidence in the case shows.

Quote
For example, someone who is getting their head banged on the pavement is not going to be able to aim accurately enough to kill on the first shot with a bullet to the head. He could however do some body damage.

Precisely what happened.  One defensive shot to the body was all.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
Red Emerald
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
June 20, 2012, 11:13:15 PM
 #135


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/342834/20120518/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-shot-evidence-photos.htm

Quote
New documents released in the Trayvon Martin case showed that George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, shot the 17 year old through the chest, piercing his heart and lung. Zimmerman was also bloody and had wounds, evidence in the case shows.

Quote
For example, someone who is getting their head banged on the pavement is not going to be able to aim accurately enough to kill on the first shot with a bullet to the head. He could however do some body damage.

Precisely what happened.  One defensive shot to the body was all.

Just because it was a defensive shot doesn't mean Zimmerman isn't the one who provoked the fight, hence the second degree murder charges.

This topic isn't about that though.  It's about the defense fund.  Can we please stay on topic? I want to know if anyone actually donated to Zimmerman and if they are upset that their money was hidden and not used for his actual defense.

Rarity
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


Look upon me, BitcoinTalk, for I...am...Rarity!


View Profile
June 21, 2012, 12:03:54 AM
 #136

Quote
Just because it was a defensive shot doesn't mean Zimmerman isn't the one who provoked the fight, hence the second degree murder charges.

He was waiting for the police he called to the scene, not provoking fights.  The charges are obviously not going to result in a conviction, charging him is appropriate in such a controversial case where someone has lost their life, but in the end justice will do what is also appropriate and find him not-guilty. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
BadBear
v2.0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1005



View Profile WWW
June 21, 2012, 06:34:28 AM
 #137

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-usa-florida-trayvon-idUSBRE85K04320120621

Quote
(Reuters) - The Florida police chief whose department failed to arrest neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the February shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin was fired on Wednesday, the city of Sanford said.

Quote
police documents released later showed that the lead investigator in the Sanford Police Department believed there was enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter. The investigator wrote in his summary that Martin was not involved in any criminal activity, and that Zimmerman could have avoided the encounter.



1Kz25jm6pjNTaz8bFezEYUeBYfEtpjuKRG | PGP: B5797C4F

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 250


1ngldh


View Profile
June 21, 2012, 03:36:56 PM
 #138

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-usa-florida-trayvon-idUSBRE85K04320120621

Quote
(Reuters) - The Florida police chief whose department failed to arrest neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the February shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin was fired on Wednesday, the city of Sanford said.

Quote
police documents released later showed that the lead investigator in the Sanford Police Department believed there was enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter. The investigator wrote in his summary that Martin was not involved in any criminal activity, and that Zimmerman could have avoided the encounter.



Additional press: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

EDIT: Includes video of Zimmerman himself walking through the neighborhood and discussing the incident.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
vampire
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 21, 2012, 07:24:38 PM
 #139

Quote
In another interview, he told an investigator that he has been taking 20 milligrams of Adderall twice a day – and has a bad memory.

Quote
Mr. Zimmerman told a police detective that he has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

So he has ADHD and was under drugs, and has a bad memory.
RodeoX
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1046


The revolution will be monetized!


View Profile
June 21, 2012, 11:39:26 PM
 #140

Here is Zimmerman's complete reenactment video.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/21/watch-video-shows-george-zimmerman-reenacting-fight-with-trayvon-martin/

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
Nachtwind
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 502



View Profile
June 22, 2012, 08:27:31 AM
 #141

That one is a tiny bit biased i would suppose..
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [All]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!