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Author Topic: US health care mandate (Obamacare) II: The grubering...  (Read 5832 times)
Wilikon (OP)
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December 10, 2014, 04:09:41 AM
 #21




Talk to my lawyer: Gruber won’t commit to turning over documents he produced for ObamaCare


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmixKPZA04o


-------------------------------------------
MIT Prof: "I have documents in front of me. I am so stupid. What is the meaning of your question again?"

 Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ctuXLZjtV4

Jonathan Gruber math explained by Lou Costello

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3fAUcnmtC0

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December 10, 2014, 07:35:04 PM
 #22




Still cooking the ObamaCare books


The ObamaCare lies keep coming. In two highly publicized announcements last week, top Obama health officials claimed the Affordable Care Act is slowing health care spending and improving hospital safety.

The media parroted these boasts, but the evidence shows they’re bogus.

Even as administration figures — from President Obama down — distance themselves from Jonathan Gruber, the ObamaCare adviser caught calling the public stupid, they’re still relying on his playbook: They assume we’re not going to check their facts.

On Dec. 3, federal actuaries released data showing that health spending inched up only 3.6 percent in 2013.


http://nypost.com/2014/12/09/still-cooking-the-obamacare-books/


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December 11, 2014, 06:49:56 PM
 #23






http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/12/11/poll-58-percent-want-obamacare-repealed-n1930484?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall


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December 11, 2014, 10:28:00 PM
 #24

You know, I just thought of something.

If we got rid of Obamacare, wouldn't we get rid of all the lying about Obamacare?

It'd just fade away in the junkyard of socialist failed programs.  Or is that junkyard full?

It'd certainly be nice to not have that yet-another-stream-of-lying-propaganda from the District of Criminals.
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December 13, 2014, 05:04:12 AM
 #25



More Videos: Gruber Talks About Writing Obamacare; Said Under Oath He Didn't Write It


GRUBER: I DON'T RUN CBO. I DIDN'T DRAFT THE LEGISLATION.

LUMMIS: YOU HAVE SAID IN 2012 REMARKS THAT YOU WROTE PART OF OBAMACARE YOURSELF. WHAT PARTS DID YOU WRITE YOURSELF?

GRUBER: IF I SAID THAT, THAT WAS ONCE AGAIN AN EFFORT TO SEEM MORE IMPORTANT THAN I WAS.

LUMMIS: WHY WOULD YOU SAY YOU WROTE PART OF OBAMACARE YOURSELF AND YOU ARE THE NUMBERS GUY. THEY USED YOUR MODELLING. THEY KNEW THEY MIGHT HAVE TO CONVINCE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT THAT IT WAS A TAX AND CONVINCE THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE FOR SCORING PURPOSES THAT IT WAS NOT A TAX. HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

GRUBER: MA'AM, ONCE AGAIN, I DID NOT WRITE ANY PART OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

LUMMIS: WHY DID YOU SAY IN 2012 EXPLICITLY THAT YOU WROTE PART OF OBAMACARE YOURSELF?

GRUBER: I WAS SPEAKING GLIBLY.



But now new video dug up by investment advisor Rich Weinstein, the man behind Grubergate, shows the Obamacare architect boasted on numerous occasions about writing the legislation.

March 20, 2010 just one day before President Obama signed Obamacare into law: (comments 3:55 time mark).

"Once again, unabashed, I helped write the federal [healthcare] bill as well. I was a paid consultant for the Obama administration to help develop the technical details of the bill, so I come to you with my biases."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk4sJBa45Ik#t=132


Noblis healthcare talk 2012: (comments at 44:50 time mark)

"The one bit of the bill I actually wrote."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtnEmPXEpr0

Another video found by American Commitment President Phil Kerpan shows Gruber telling his students at MIT that he has a bias because he "wrote part of the law."

"What does this bill do? This bill tries to...full disclaimer, I'm going to describe objectively but I helped write it. I'll be objective, I'll try to be objective but full-disclaimer I was involved in writing the legislation so there is some bias involved here."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmolioUklXI


When Jonathan Gruber testified in front of the House Oversight Committee earlier this week, he took an oath to tell the truth. During his testimony, he tried to claim he didn't write Obamacare, yet his own words repeatedly prove otherwise. As a reminder, lying under oath is a crime.


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/12/12/in-his-own-words-gruber-talks-about-how-he-helped-write-obamacame-n1931092?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall


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December 18, 2014, 04:40:20 PM
 #26




The Dream Is Dead: Vermont Governor Kills Plan To Enact Single-Payer Health Care System…




Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin on Wednesday dropped his plan to enact a single-payer health care system in his state — a plan that had won praise from liberals but never really got much past the framework stage.

“This is not the right time” for enacting single payer, Shumlin said in a statement, citing the big tax increases that would be required to pay for it.

Shumlin faced deep skepticism that lawmakers could agree on a way to pay for his ambitious goal and that the feds would agree to everything he needed to create the first state-based single-payer system in 2017.

And that was all before Shumlin, a Democrat, almost lost reelection last month in one of the country’s most liberal states. And it was before MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, the now notorious Obamacare consultant who also advised Vermont until his $400,000 contract was killed amid the controversy, became political poison.



http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/vermont-peter-shumlin-single-payer-health-care-113653.html



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December 20, 2014, 07:18:19 PM
 #27

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
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December 21, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
 #28

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
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December 21, 2014, 07:26:01 AM
 #29

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
This is exactly what is wrong with a single payer system. The consumer does not care about the cost nor the value of any procedure nor do they have any incentive to keep their medical costs in line

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December 21, 2014, 02:55:40 PM
 #30

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
This is exactly what is wrong with a single payer system. The consumer does not care about the cost nor the value of any procedure nor do they have any incentive to keep their medical costs in line
It's okay.  I'm connected.  My brother is in charge of the South city school district and my older sister's husband is the police chief.  You understand?  There shouldn't be any questions about my beer therapy payments?

Right?
malaimult
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December 21, 2014, 05:10:06 PM
 #31

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
This is exactly what is wrong with a single payer system. The consumer does not care about the cost nor the value of any procedure nor do they have any incentive to keep their medical costs in line
It's okay.  I'm connected.  My brother is in charge of the South city school district and my older sister's husband is the police chief.  You understand?  There shouldn't be any questions about my beer therapy payments?

Right?
It isn't about the individual payments. It is about the cost of the treatment and the potential benefit/risks to the treatment. If a treatment is going to cost a lot of money but is only going to have a small chance of making you a little bit better then you should not be receiving such treatment, however someone that is not paying for the treatment directly is not going to care about price

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December 21, 2014, 10:16:50 PM
 #32

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
This is exactly what is wrong with a single payer system. The consumer does not care about the cost nor the value of any procedure nor do they have any incentive to keep their medical costs in line
It's okay.  I'm connected.  My brother is in charge of the South city school district and my older sister's husband is the police chief.  You understand?  There shouldn't be any questions about my beer therapy payments?

Right?
It isn't about the individual payments. It is about the cost of the treatment and the potential benefit/risks to the treatment. If a treatment is going to cost a lot of money but is only going to have a small chance of making you a little bit better then you should not be receiving such treatment, however someone that is not paying for the treatment directly is not going to care about price
I should have made it more obvious, but I was joking....

Mocking the actual way that socialized medicine may work...
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December 22, 2014, 07:37:50 AM
 #33

A Single-Payer Health Care System is the opposite direction where the health care industry/insurance industry needs to go. It is much better to use a system when the consumer pays the first health care dollar so they can question the necessity of procedures, medicines, ect instead of asking when they can get their "free" health care services that is covered by insurance
I would like them to pay for my beer therapy.  It's unnecessary for anyone to question the necessity of this procedure.
This is exactly what is wrong with a single payer system. The consumer does not care about the cost nor the value of any procedure nor do they have any incentive to keep their medical costs in line
It's okay.  I'm connected.  My brother is in charge of the South city school district and my older sister's husband is the police chief.  You understand?  There shouldn't be any questions about my beer therapy payments?

Right?
It isn't about the individual payments. It is about the cost of the treatment and the potential benefit/risks to the treatment. If a treatment is going to cost a lot of money but is only going to have a small chance of making you a little bit better then you should not be receiving such treatment, however someone that is not paying for the treatment directly is not going to care about price
I should have made it more obvious, but I was joking....

Mocking the actual way that socialized medicine may work...
LOL

I would not be surprised if some people actually wanted a single payer health care provider to pay for beer therapy

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December 23, 2014, 10:46:48 AM
 #34

If I don't comply with Obamacare, have I broken the law? Or is it only the code? If they take me to court, will I have to pay a fine?

Listen to what Karl has to say directly about Obamacare - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgmNJ9pI1_Y .

Try legal vs. lawful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbAw1bMqVw .

Hand guns and Obamacare - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8HslODNbz8 .

Codes are not law. Codes are a condensed version of the law, made so that it is easier for the courts, because the law can be thousands of pages long. No judge or prosecutor will legally take responsibility that the code is a correct interpretation of the law. What they try to do is get you to say that you have broken the law. Then they prosecute you on your confession. Thompsons of Canada publishes the code - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7etOeQ0i_k

Law and Code are not the same, but even if they were, have I signed the law so that I am part of it by contract? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75720EVcc9k .

We are not part of their Code world - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurbFF61B8o .

There are only 3 things that the courts can hold you for if you don't comply with some of their code:
1. Have you harmed someone?;
2. Have you damaged someone's property?;
3. Have you broken a contract?

If you haven't harmed someone or damaged their property, and if you don't have a contract with them, be very careful that you don't make a contract with them in court. If you do, you have just confessed to having to obey their code. If you don't contract with them, you don't owe them a dime.

Smiley

Cure your cancer at home. Ivermectin, fenbendazole, methylene blue, and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) are chief among parasite drugs. Find out that all disease is based in parasites or pollution, and what you can easily do about it - https://www.huldaclark.com/, https://thedrardisshow.com/, https://thehighwire.com/.
Wilikon (OP)
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December 27, 2014, 03:47:24 PM
 #35

If I don't comply with Obamacare, have I broken the law? Or is it only the code? If they take me to court, will I have to pay a fine?

Listen to what Karl has to say directly about Obamacare - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgmNJ9pI1_Y .

Try legal vs. lawful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbAw1bMqVw .

Hand guns and Obamacare - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8HslODNbz8 .

Codes are not law. Codes are a condensed version of the law, made so that it is easier for the courts, because the law can be thousands of pages long. No judge or prosecutor will legally take responsibility that the code is a correct interpretation of the law. What they try to do is get you to say that you have broken the law. Then they prosecute you on your confession. Thompsons of Canada publishes the code - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7etOeQ0i_k

Law and Code are not the same, but even if they were, have I signed the law so that I am part of it by contract? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75720EVcc9k .

We are not part of their Code world - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurbFF61B8o .

There are only 3 things that the courts can hold you for if you don't comply with some of their code:
1. Have you harmed someone?;
2. Have you damaged someone's property?;
3. Have you broken a contract?

If you haven't harmed someone or damaged their property, and if you don't have a contract with them, be very careful that you don't make a contract with them in court. If you do, you have just confessed to having to obey their code. If you don't contract with them, you don't owe them a dime.

Smiley

Sadly reality does not work like that with 0bamacare. Unless the dude in your youtube video is your personal lawyer for 24/7. 0bamacare is so bad even the majority of senators and congressmen/women are not signed up to it.

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December 31, 2014, 06:08:37 AM
 #36




A whopping 87 per cent of Obamacare customers to get taxpayer-funded subsidies in 2015 – but the Supreme Court could throw out the whole $65 BILLION system


About seven out of every eight Obamacare insurance customers who enrolled between November 15 and mid-December are poor enough to qualify for taxpayer-funded subsidies designed to lower their monthly premiums.

The Department of Health and Human Services reported that number Tuesday, saying it’s up from 80 per cent a year ago.

Americans who participate in government-brokered medical insurance can get subsidies from the federal treasury if their households earn less than four times the government’s official ‘poverty’ level.

That situation describes 64 per cent of all U.S. residents, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But far more are qualifying, suggesting that the Obamacare subscriber base is dramatically tilted toward low-income earners.

And as poor Americans depend inreasingly on handouts to manage their monthly health insurance bills, the U.S. Supreme Court could be months away from invalidating the entire subsidy system that supports the 34 states that chose not to run their own Obamacare marketplaces.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2891804/A-whopping-87-cent-Obamacare-subscribers-taxpayer-funded-subsidies-2015-Supreme-Court-make-65-BILLION-subsidies-illegal.html



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January 02, 2015, 10:15:03 PM
 #37




Feds Looking for Company to Run 'National Data Warehouse' for Obamacare, Medicare


The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is looking for vendors to run its "National Data Warehouse," a database for "capturing, aggregating, and analyzing information" related to beneficiary and customer experiences with Medicare and the federal Obamacare marketplaces. Although the database primarily consists of quality control metrics related to individuals' interactions with customer service, potential contractors are to "[d]emonstrate ... experience with scalability and security in protecting data and information with customer, person-sensitive information including Personal Health Information and Personally Identifiable information (personal health records, etc.)." Vendors are also instructed that one of the requirements of a possible future contract would be "[e]nsuring that all products developed and delivered adhere to Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) compliance standards."

For a number of years, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), the division of HHS responsible for Medicare and now Obamacare also, has maintained a "national data warehouse" (NDW) related to the 1-800-MEDICARE helpline. The passage of the Affordable Care Act and subsequent establishment of the Marketplaces has expanded the scope of the NDW. The CMS notice explains the NDW as follows:

The NDW performs a significant role with oversight and monitoring functions under the Virtual Call Center Strategy (VCS) initiative and Medicare Reform legislation. The NDW acts as the central repository for capturing, aggregating, and analyzing information related to the beneficiary experience with Medicare and the consumer experience with Marketplaces. The NDW also serves as a foundation for operational and management reporting to support improved decision-making, business practices, and services to callers.


The type of data included in the NDW "includes information for CMS’ Virtual Contact Center operations including, but not necessarily limited to" items such as "Workforce management data,""Quality monitoring," "Medicare disenrollments," "Beneficiary satisfaction surveys," and "Web Chat metrics." The NDW is part of CMS's larger $15 billion "Virtual Data Center" program awarded to multiple vendors in 2012. The eventual vendor for the NDW must be able to integrate and share data with the other Virtual Data Center vendors.

The description for the "NDW Functional Requirements" included thirty-six items, several with multiple subpoints, and even this list is not meant to be "all inclusive" according to CMS. In addition to these functions, the "contractor shall implement a security program that adheres to CMS security standards." Interested vendors have until January 19, 2015, to respond.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feds-looking-company-run-national-data-warehouse-obamacare-medicare_822642.html

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January 02, 2015, 10:22:41 PM
 #38




Obamacare tax surprise looming


The next Obamacare controversy is right around the corner.

Obamacare enrollees who received subsidies to help pay for coverage will soon have to reconcile how much they actually earned in 2014 with how much they estimated when they applied many, many months ago.

This will likely lead to some very unhappy Americans. Those who underestimated their income either will receive smaller tax refunds or will owe the IRS money.

That's because subsidies are actually tax credits and are based on annual income, but folks got their 2014 subsidy before knowing exactly what they'd make in 2014. So you'll have to reconcile the two with the IRS during the upcoming tax filing season.

It won't be surprising if many enrollees guessed wrong. The sign up period began in October 2013 and many people did not know what they'd earn in 2014. Some went off what they earned in 2012.

Also, it was up to consumers to report major changes in their circumstances, such as landing a new job or getting married, so their subsidy amounts could be recalculated.

We're not talking chump change. Those who applied through the federal exchange received an average monthly subsidy of $264, according to the most recent figures reported by the Obama administration. They only had to pay $82 a month, on average, for coverage, Roughly 85% of total enrollees received help with insurance premiums. The administration last month said 2014 enrollment was 6.7 million.

Those who underestimated their earnings could owe thousands of dollars, though there is a $2,500 cap for those who remain eligible for subsidies. The threshold for eligibility is based on income - $45,900 for an individual and $94,200 for a family in 2014.

Of course, those who overestimated their 2014 income may get a healthier-than-expected refund. And some will see no change.

Here's what happens next:

Obamacare enrollees should receive Form 1095-A from their exchange by Jan 31. It lists who in the household had policies and how much they received in monthly subsidies.

Taxpayers will then use that documentation to fill out Form 8962, which asks details on insurance, subsidies and income. If they were not covered for the entire year, they have to break down the subsidy payments by month.



"It will be very difficult for those individuals who received premium tax credits to prepare their taxes on their own and get this straight," said Timothy Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University.

Also concerning is whether the Form 1095-As will contain accurate information and whether the exchanges will send them by the end of January, said Jost, who writes about Obamacare for the Health Affairs blog.

Exchange officials interviewed do not expect there to be problems with their record keeping. The federal exchange is currently testing its process to confirm premium and subsidy amounts with insurers to make sure can generate accurate tax forms.

"Consumers will receive their 1095-A from the [exchange] in the mail and it will be posted to their online healthcare.gov account during tax filing season," said Aaron Albright, a spokesman for the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, which oversees the federal exchange. If there are errors, they can go to healthcare.gov/taxes to get a corrected form.

Covered California, the largest state-based exchange, expects to mail its forms on Jan. 20, said Dana Howard, the exchange's deputy director of communications.

Consumers who have trouble filling out their returns shouldn't expect to get timely help from the IRS. The agency had its budget cut, and its commissioner recently said it may only be able to answer just over half the phone calls received.

"Phone calls won't be answered even as poorly as they were last year," said Roberton Williams, a fellow at the Tax Policy Center.


http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/02/pf/taxes/obamacare-income-tax-subsidies/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


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January 05, 2015, 12:40:09 AM
 #39




Got Obamacare? Great! Now here’s your audit.



“As many as 3.4 million people who received Obamacare subsidies may owe refunds to the federal government, according to an estimate by a tax preparation firm… H&R Block is estimating that as many as half of the 6.8 million people who received insurance premium subsidies under the Affordable Care Act benefited from subsidies that were too large, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.” Although it’s definitely going to be a problem: ‘several million people suddenly discovering that they now owe back taxes to the government over Obamacare’ is not exactly a good scenario, especially if you belong to the political party that set that scenario up in the first place. But it’s still not the worst thing for Democrats.

No, the problem for Democrats here is that this is going to happen every year. The system is more or less designed to assume that people would twiddle with their coverage on a regular basis: as plans changed, improved, or degraded the consumer would be obligated to follow suit, in order to keep the subsidy. This sounds perfectly reasonable… if you’re not the one doing it. But out in the real world?


http://www.redstate.com/2015/01/03/obamacare-subsidies-back-taxes-irs/



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people in this forum love 0bamacare no matter what. I expect none of them to complain about those back-taxes...


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January 05, 2015, 04:49:21 AM
 #40




Got Obamacare? Great! Now here’s your audit.



“As many as 3.4 million people who received Obamacare subsidies may owe refunds to the federal government, according to an estimate by a tax preparation firm… H&R Block is estimating that as many as half of the 6.8 million people who received insurance premium subsidies under the Affordable Care Act benefited from subsidies that were too large, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.” Although it’s definitely going to be a problem: ‘several million people suddenly discovering that they now owe back taxes to the government over Obamacare’ is not exactly a good scenario, especially if you belong to the political party that set that scenario up in the first place. But it’s still not the worst thing for Democrats.

No, the problem for Democrats here is that this is going to happen every year. The system is more or less designed to assume that people would twiddle with their coverage on a regular basis: as plans changed, improved, or degraded the consumer would be obligated to follow suit, in order to keep the subsidy. This sounds perfectly reasonable… if you’re not the one doing it. But out in the real world?


http://www.redstate.com/2015/01/03/obamacare-subsidies-back-taxes-irs/



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people in this forum love 0bamacare no matter what. I expect none of them to complain about those back-taxes...



I would say that as long as Obama is in office the IRS is going to be very liberal (no pun intended) regarding enforcing and auditing people who may have misrepresented their income levels to get higher subsidies. The subsidy system is flawed in that it relies on the honor system in order to give initial insurance rates

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