DPR subpoena

[Blazr]

This is not very surprising/interesting, but I thought I'd mention that I received a subpoena for information related to Ross Ulbricht's alleged forum account altoid. I mostly just compiled some publicly-available information. The only non-public data I had to include were some deleted posts in the heroin store topic that were not written by DPR and probably won't be useful in the case.

You might be surprised to learn that this is the first subpoena I've received for the forum.

This is amazing hypocrisy. While investors were scammed all year long with scam after scam (Altcoins were turning scam >2 weekly in August, eg USBCoin) there was not a single fucking peep from anyone in the manner where it would be proactive in stopping that plague. The Altcoin scams were self-moderated and the only change was mining pool advertising. This is the same forum where a thread saying "I'm starting a Ponzi scheme, who's interested in getting on board?" doesn't cause anyone to bat an eyelid (let alone raise a mouse finger to lock/hide/delete the post).

But now the FBI sends you a letter, and you're suddenly able to be the good guy being proactive? If not before why now? Antruk will answer that...

I'd say it sets a good precedent.  It's nice to know when justice is happening, even if we don't know why in this case.
Even though this is a private forum, it still has to obey laws.  I find that comforting.

Yep, hit the nail on the head. It does set a good precedent. A precedent where the admin and mods have clearly got the ability to stem the flow of bad actors but choose not to. Unless of course it plays into their favor; if the price of Bitcoin is affected or there's brownie points that need winning, well, that libertarian "right to free speech, privacy (and, oh, freedom) can be put aside to set good precedent. It makes my fucking skin crawl.

Why am I defending this scum, this drug kingpin? Because he's neither. Yet. (And no, I don't even drink or do weed)
DPR has not been proven to be Ross Ulbricht. He is innocent until proven guilty.\
The defence team has no chance; the FBI will do all it takes to convict Ross and do so with extreme prejudice. You're helping the FBI on what (in their words) "an open and shut case".

Do the right thing and offer every and any assistance to Ross' legal team.
Perhaps the good precedent to set can be that there's some type of selflessness at some stage.

If LE contact theymos about the altcoins he'll likely give them the info they request. Maybe he already has. If you were scammed report it to the police and tell them to ask theymos for any releveant information he has on the scammers. The police probably won't do shit but if they do theymos will probably help them if its obvious a scam took place. It's possible theymos has nothing useful though.

The FBI have only asked theymos for public posts, I don't think there is much point wasting the forums money fighting this, even if the forum wins (which it won't) it likely won't stop the FBI from using the posts as evidence seeing as they are public anyway. The posts were in the old court documents already and weren't challenged in anyway by Ross' defense team.

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[hashie]

This is very shady theymos, I was under the assumption there's no logs. Not Google type monitoring. This isn't Facebook. Do you store our PMs too?

PMs are stored and certain words (such as certain words that relate to theymos) automatically alert him.
That is just one of the nuggets of his code 'patches' to SMF.

[bitkilo]

I think Blazr is right, if the defence is not challening the post then no point wasting the forums money on it. I didn't see it mentioned that any was going to be spent anyway.

[Lauda]

This is very shady theymos, I was under the assumption there's no logs. Not Google type monitoring. This isn't Facebook. Do you store our PMs too?

I hope he stores everything.

A lot of commerce is done through this forum.  A lot of scams too.  

Well that would be very damaging. The part about logs is my concern as well. You do not realize the extend of the information (personal!) that go through PMs. If some government agency would get a hold on that, don't be surprised if some members start missing.
Luckily I've used PGP when I needed to.

So theymos, are you archiving PMs?

[hashie]

So theymos, are you archiving PMs?

Yes, including ones deleted by both parties.

[dansmith]

@theymos, http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/responding-subpoenas
I hope you will at least request a compensation for your plane ticket. That would be so unjust having to pay one's return ticket from Hawaii to New York.

[mufa23]

You might be surprised to learn that this is the first subpoena I've received for the forum.

I actually am. I'd imagine you've already worked with LEOs from a few different countries pertaining to this forum by now (I have). Kinda weird that 5 years in, and you finally get your first subpoena.

I'm glad you were open about it. It shows transparency. Imagine if a few months down the road someone with PACER noticed your name on a docket, and started posting it all over the forum causing a bunch of unnecessary hype. You nipped it in the butt quickly.

[dexX7]

https://bitcointalk.org/docs/ulbricht.pdf

Thanks for your openness and transparency, really appreciated!

Edit:

GREETINGS:
WE COMMAND YOU ...

[theymos]

I don't have to appear personally in court. It briefly mentions that in the subpoena.

This is very shady theymos, I was under the assumption there's no logs. Not Google type monitoring. This isn't Facebook. Do you store our PMs too?

Why would you assume that? I've never implied that. I often say that I can see deleted/edited posts. For example:

If both sender and recipient of a PM deletes it, then it's deleted from the database completely and I can't access it except through the daily database backups. (This is a massive pain, so don't expect me to do it for you...)

Deleted/edited posts are always saved forever.

PMs can end up in the daily database backups. You should assume that backups are saved forever, though in practice this is not actually the case. Encrypt sensitive PMs.

Logged IPs are logged forever, but IPs are only logged in certain circumstances (such as posting). Just logging in doesn't result in your IP being permanently logged.

I am willing to cooperate with police on real scams. Whenever someone asks me to release a scammer's IP, I tell them to have police email me from an official police address. I have received police requests a handful of times. Mostly the cases were real scams and I gave the police the requested info. In some cases I've rejected their requests. For example, I refused to give information to some foreign version of the SEC because securities laws are unjust. Of course, you should not trust that I will act in your best interest. If you want to be anonymous, then you must use Tor (or whatever).

[siameze]

Luckily I've used PGP when I needed to.

Doesn't anyone worth their salt use PGP for sensitive information anyway? Why would you trust your personal security to anyone but yourself?

[bg002h]

The stuff that they are asking you to sign off as true should be reviewed by a lawyer before you sign it. It's not really part of the request....it's like a subpoena plus your testimony...be careful, they are asking more of you than just to produce info.

[Blazed]

I love the wording "WE COMMAND YOU"  - so pushy. They should just ask nicely and not sound like such dicks about it.

[sl@ppy]

So in case anyone doesn't already know, and it seems like a lot do not, anything you do not own you do not have control of. If you sign-up to a forum, that forum most likely keeps everything. What good business doesn't?  People know that if you put something into google's system, they have it, but don't realize it happens everywhere? get off the internet.

[btcdrak]

So in case anyone doesn't already know, and it seems like a lot do not, anything you do not own you do not have control of. If you sign-up to a forum, that forum most likely keeps everything. What good business doesn't?  People know that if you put something into google's system, they have it, but don't realize it happens everywhere? get off the internet.

Maybe for now, but the right to be forgotten is gaining legal ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Was the allegation of him attempting to hire a hitman ever substantiated?

No!

[psudoBTC]

Was the allegation of him attempting to hire a hitman ever substantiated?

No!

It is all but certain it will not be. It is not an allegation in the current case (although there is a separate MD case that will be heard after the one in regards to him running silk road).

Additionally to be fair, no case has been heard yet and no evidence/testimony has actually been presented in court.

[sl@ppy]

So in case anyone doesn't already know, and it seems like a lot do not, anything you do not own you do not have control of. If you sign-up to a forum, that forum most likely keeps everything. What good business doesn't?  People know that if you put something into google's system, they have it, but don't realize it happens everywhere? get off the internet.

Maybe for now, but the right to be forgotten is gaining legal ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

You forget that ANYTHING put on the internet lives forever. Right to be forgotten is a joke. The only time it could ever hope to work is when the entire internet is totally controlled, and that will never happen until someone takes it down and it needs to be rebuilt. Remember kids, the entire internet can be removed by getting to the correct 8 servers at one time and there are a few wandering around with a code to do it, but they built it and don't want to ruin it.

[BadBear]

https://bitcointalk.org/docs/ulbricht.pdf

I won't post my response because it contains deleted posts which should remain private if at all possible. Probably my response will end up as part of public record, but I'm not going to speed up the process or make it easier for people to find. I already PMed the users affected by this.

Maybe this is the first time Theymos experienced a formal subpoena, but I have trouble believing that this is the first time he experienced a law enforcement inquiry.

This is the first government request/inquiry I've received related to Ulbricht's case. I have received a few other inquiries for other cases.

Is it possible, FBI are buying accounts to avoid a subpoena? It would not surprise me at all.

You don't need to be registered to see posts. The SEC case against Pirate involved forum posts, they had printouts of his thread from what I recall reading from the testimony, they would reference posts and ask if it was his post.

[bitpop]

Well Shrem just got 2 years in prison.

[moriartybitcoin]

This is not very surprising/interesting, but I thought I'd mention that I received a subpoena for information related to Ross Ulbricht's alleged forum account altoid. I mostly just compiled some publicly-available information. The only non-public data I had to include were some deleted posts in the heroin store topic that were not written by DPR and probably won't be useful in the case.

You might be surprised to learn that this is the first subpoena I've received for the forum.

how many NSA letters have you received?

Nice to see how you rolled over and took it up the ass from the US Attorney. Good job!