Decentralized Lending Protocol / Network

[jdbtracker]

I've got it. Instead of some % going to devs, lets put some percentage towards wikipedia. That way we'll never have to go through these pledge drives ever again.

I do like what the Wikimedia foundation has done; It would be a good idea, free information for all, forever. Very Decentralized thinking, if everything was running like this, key infrastructure could be funded by open market applications.

[1714001735]

1714001735

[GingerAle]

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/21/crowdsales-funding-innovation-by-bitcoin-and-its-community/

interesting approach. Create "coins" that are software keys.

Hrm, I think this is related: perhaps we could use this to incentivise mining by coupling a "coin" to some ability to participate in the network. The details of this type of thing would have to be really ironed out, and ultimately the coins would be so superfluous that they wouldn't have any extraordinary value on an exchange. For example, every new block dumps like thousands of coins to all users (in a proportional way as suggested before, instead of the lottery fashion of bitcoin, the hashing network, from the beginning, is set up like a pool).

And the "coins" in this system would be different, because it would be a one way ticket to burn when you "spend" a coin in the network. For instance, when you want to put a loan application in, it requires 1 coin. When you want to put stake into a loan, it requires the same amount of coin as the percent of the stake (or some other amount. 0.1 coins? it ultimately doesn't matter because their will be so many of them). And then when that "coin" is spent, it doesn't come back. The network eats it.

Hrm. I'll need to think about this harder, and think of the network ramifications of this approach. I.e., say a newcomer comes in - he either has to buy some coins on in an exchange, or set up his own miner - he's guaranteed to get coins by mining, because the whole network is one pool. Doesn't matter if he's hashing 256 at 2 terahashes per second, or 400 hashes per second, he'll get a coin at some given interval.

Perhaps thats it. Everyone participating gets 1 coin every block for running a full node. Or once every 144 blocks (1 day).

And this could also be used to get investment in the software through what is essentially a pre-mine. Some people could buy loan token (loken) before the software is made, such that when the network launches, this investor group has more lokens than those just joining the network. In the beginning, this gives them the ability to spur the network on - these investors obviously have money to give out, so they'll be able to place stakes in many loans right from the beginning (due to their investment in the loken before the launch)

but once the network builds and more and more individuals are participating with full nodes and the lokens are just being created and burned left and right, the effect of the premine is gone. This investor group almost immediately has the same network power as someone joining after launch.

What do you guys think?

We'll, it'll be tough to sleep tonight as my mind churns over the ramifications of this. damn these thinkings.

[jdbtracker]

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/21/crowdsales-funding-innovation-by-bitcoin-and-its-community/

interesting approach. Create "coins" that are software keys.

Hrm, I think this is related: perhaps we could use this to incentivise mining by coupling a "coin" to some ability to participate in the network. The details of this type of thing would have to be really ironed out, and ultimately the coins would be so superfluous that they wouldn't have any extraordinary value on an exchange. For example, every new block dumps like thousands of coins to all users (in a proportional way as suggested before, instead of the lottery fashion of bitcoin, the hashing network, from the beginning, is set up like a pool).

And the "coins" in this system would be different, because it would be a one way ticket to burn when you "spend" a coin in the network. For instance, when you want to put a loan application in, it requires 1 coin. When you want to put stake into a loan, it requires the same amount of coin as the percent of the stake (or some other amount. 0.1 coins? it ultimately doesn't matter because their will be so many of them). And then when that "coin" is spent, it doesn't come back. The network eats it.

Hrm. I'll need to think about this harder, and think of the network ramifications of this approach. I.e., say a newcomer comes in - he either has to buy some coins on in an exchange, or set up his own miner - he's guaranteed to get coins by mining, because the whole network is one pool. Doesn't matter if he's hashing 256 at 2 terahashes per second, or 400 hashes per second, he'll get a coin at some given interval.

Perhaps thats it. Everyone participating gets 1 coin every block for running a full node. Or once every 144 blocks (1 day).

And this could also be used to get investment in the software through what is essentially a pre-mine. Some people could buy loan token (loken) before the software is made, such that when the network launches, this investor group has more lokens than those just joining the network. In the beginning, this gives them the ability to spur the network on - these investors obviously have money to give out, so they'll be able to place stakes in many loans right from the beginning (due to their investment in the loken before the launch)

but once the network builds and more and more individuals are participating with full nodes and the lokens are just being created and burned left and right, the effect of the premine is gone. This investor group almost immediately has the same network power as someone joining after launch.

What do you guys think?

We'll, it'll be tough to sleep tonight as my mind churns over the ramifications of this. damn these thinkings.

yeah I read that, sounds pretty good, a nice idea to create encrypt able Tokens, great idea.

So, your thinking of Creating a Shared Minting Coin, Everyone who participates gets paid... hmmm I like it, Combined with the above idea, we can create Tokens with Encrypted Bitcoin Keys... it simplifies the Blockchain Database significantly. Awesome. If the coins are pledged they are either returned to the Lender or Opened by the Borrower.


This is one reason I would like to merge mine with Bitcoin: I want to free users computers for running the nodes... so it would require two rewards above the Shared Coins for the nodes and miners; Something to incentivise them. Double Tokens for Mining, Triple Tokens for running a node and mining. It makes our network secure, and I do think it should scale if required just in case there is a shortfall of Tokens during busy periods.

This coin of course would throttle the system, we are not sure how many people would be using it at any given point or how many loans may be in circulation. It would have to be used to pay for the DAR as well; This part I believe needs to be handled like a coin-op, crypto goes in your Token, network receives appropriate levy, loan pledge goes through and Dividends get paid back to all Lenders when they decide to cash out same way through the Tokens.

But I'm not so sure a pre-mine is the best way to go, we would need funds to focus our efforts, but either options means offering up favorable coin generation to make their investment profitable or giving up a bit of the DAR.

Yeah I know the feeling... I toss and turn at night just thinking about ideas. Love it.

[GingerAle]

yeah I read that, sounds pretty good, a nice idea to create encrypt able Tokens, great idea.

So, your thinking of Creating a Shared Minting Coin, Everyone who participates gets paid... hmmm I like it, Combined with the above idea, we can create Tokens with Encrypted Bitcoin Keys... it simplifies the Blockchain Database significantly. Awesome. If the coins are pledged they are either returned to the Lender or Opened by the Borrower.,

Hrm, I don't understand the "tokens with encrypted bitcoin keys" part. Ah, I think what you're saying is that the tokens carry the information that is added to the loan ledger - they act as a vehicle to get the information into the database??

This is one reason I would like to merge mine with Bitcoin: I want to free users computers for running the nodes... so it would require two rewards above the Shared Coins for the nodes and miners; Something to incentivise them. Double Tokens for Mining, Triple Tokens for running a node and mining. It makes our network secure, and I do think it should scale if required just in case there is a shortfall of Tokens during busy periods.

yeah, totally - merge mining is the way to go - definitely a reason to stick with SHA256. So yeah - bitcoin and loken rewards for mining. Double tokens / triple - details to figure out eventually. Scale - indeed. With these networks its so easy to monitor network activity, and just have token creation some multiplier of network activity

This coin of course would throttle the system, we are not sure how many people would be using it at any given point or how many loans may be in circulation. It would have to be used to pay for the DAR as well; This part I believe needs to be handled like a coin-op, crypto goes in your Token, network receives appropriate levy, loan pledge goes through and Dividends get paid back to all Lenders when they decide to cash out same way through the Tokens.

Throttle - it might, but that would only be if it was scarce, right?
Pay for the DAR - i don't get this part.... you mean cash out as in leave the system? I don't think there is a cash out - you wouldn't get your lendwallets portion of the DAR if you close your node - it just gets reditristrbuted to other dars.

But I'm not so sure a pre-mine is the best way to go, we would need funds to focus our efforts, but either options means offering up favorable coin generation to make their investment profitable or giving up a bit of the DAR.

But the DAR is not going to exist at any significant level until after probably years of network activity.


Dude, seriously - join us on slack. Send me a pm with an email address so I can invite you to the team.

[jdbtracker]

I will, I will, just doing stuff... so at what times are you guys on slack?

[theblacksquid]

I agree with jdbtracker that we need some sort of means to incentivize funding the development of the DAFNe, but it would have to be done in a way that we only get compensated in a publicly trackable way, and only in proportion to the amount of wiork we pu in. We don't want to look like another scam attempt on the community.

@jdbtracker: And "Tokens with encrypted keys", do you mean tokens that contain the private keys to an asset (btc, drk)?

@GingerAle: The lokens are a great idea for prventing someone from DDOS'sing th network. And if they are only gonna be eaten by the network along the way, you may want to look into Freicoin's implementation of Demurrage.

BTW, I can't promise I could get on Slack everyday, my internet got cut off and I have to rent a public PC by the hour when I get home from work.

[GingerAle]

I agree with jdbtracker that we need some sort of means to incentivize funding the development of the DAFNe, but it would have to be done in a way that we only get compensated in a publicly trackable way, and only in proportion to the amount of wiork we pu in. We don't want to look like another scam attempt on the community.

Gotcha.

@GingerAle: The lokens are a great idea for preventing someone from DDOS'sing th network. And if they are only gonna be eaten by the network along the way, you may want to look into Freicoin's implementation of Demurrage.

Yeah, read about freicoin before. So, if people are just sitting on lokens, they disappear. Makes sense.

BTW, I can't promise I could get on Slack everyday, my internet got cut off and I have to rent a public PC by the hour when I get home from work.

right, yeah, nobody expects that. Bummer about the internet getting cut off.

[theblacksquid]

BTW, about dev funding, we could use something like Tip4Commit, or something similar because it integrates into GitHub.

[jdbtracker]

Hey, to do the thinking all that is required is a pen and paper... it's amazingly versatile. Just keep on thinking on how to work with it; definitely need to figure out a way to fund development... can't do much if we have to focus all our energy on something else everyday...

and yeah, private keys inside the cointainers, I am now quite interested in figuring out how to use neo4j... it becomes quite a lot easier to arrange and distribute a group of tokens with correlations; Though Cassandra would be much more manageable. With the design setup as a Vault in a Token, the tokens can be piled up into Contracts, discarded when opened, Returned if canceled, and through Neo4j graphable and distributable in a less data intensive way than the Bitcoin Blockchain, with adjustable security and failure resistance.

and someone on the forum figured out how to safely transport Keys to another blockchain... great idea. I must search for it.

I like the tip for commit, will definitely need to guide people to make sure they know they can tip or donate.

[GingerAle]

Hey, to do the thinking all that is required is a pen and paper... it's amazingly versatile. Just keep on thinking on how to work with it; definitely need to figure out a way to fund development... can't do much if we have to focus all our energy on something else everyday...

http://jumpstartfund.com/#!/
I really think we should find a way to submit to that. What do you guys think? I never got a clear feeling from either of yah. In general I'm surprised that this thread hasn't garnered much attention, and that website above (or this VC we're gonna find a way to submit to) might be a good way to spread the word.

What we're trying to build falls into the whole "Bitcoin 2.0" shtick. But its not a sidechain, because the coins don't ever "leave" the primary blockchain. And its not like the other 2.0 stuff (megacoin) that work on top of bitcoin and gunk up the blockchain with more data. It works side-by-side..... Its essentially a metaledger - cause bitcoin is really just a ledger, and this is a ledger of that ledger. So its a sister chain (and her name is DAFNe.....)

and yeah, private keys inside the cointainers, I am now quite interested in figuring out how to use neo4j... it becomes quite a lot easier to arrange and distribute a group of tokens with correlations; Though Cassandra would be much more manageable. With the design setup as a Vault in a Token, the tokens can be piled up into Contracts, discarded when opened, Returned if canceled, and through Neo4j graphable and distributable in a less data intensive way than the Bitcoin Blockchain, with adjustable security and failure resistance.

well that sounds good.

and someone on the forum figured out how to safely transport Keys to another blockchain... great idea. I must search for it.

you talking about sidechains?

I like the tip for commit, will definitely need to guide people to make sure they know they can tip or donate.

[theblacksquid]

JumpStartFund looks like a good idea, but I dont think they would accept bitcoin as a funding method. The BoostVC funding would be both great and would provide us with some publicity, not to mention that it might also get us in touch with some likeminded people.

[chek2fire]

is this project "dead"?

[GingerAle]

is this project "dead"?

I'm still interested in it

There hasn't been any actual code development (as the github is straight up empty).

Can you code?

[chek2fire]

unfortunately  no but i like the idea of this project. Is strange to me that all this decentralized ideas like this project has not the attentions from developers.

[koelen3]

This all sounds more like btcjam or bitlendingclub to me , you take a loan and earn trust slowly
But their are people who default and we can't do anything much for that , that;s the main problem here.
But hope it will al work out fine if you have some good guidelines and backing. Though this seems kind of dead

[theblacksquid]

Still here, sorry for being inactive for the past few months. Just got out of the hospital. Let's get to work!

[GingerAle]

Still here, sorry for being inactive for the past few months. Just got out of the hospital. Let's get to work!

Good god man! Hope you're feeling okay!

This all sounds more like btcjam or bitlendingclub to me , you take a loan and earn trust slowly
But their are people who default and we can't do anything much for that , that;s the main problem here.
But hope it will al work out fine if you have some good guidelines and backing. Though this seems kind of dead

those two services are centralized. Lending service is one of the things I think should be decentralized. Why should people be getting paid simply for going "hey, uh, you got some money. They need some money. So I'm gonna take your money and give it to them, and then they're going to pay me back, then I'll take a fee, and then give you most of it" . What did they do to earn that fee? They've built trust?

unfortunately  no but i like the idea of this project. Is strange to me that all this decentralized ideas like this project has not the attentions from developers.

I've been getting involved (in the way that a noncoder can) with monero. From what I gather from talking to folks, a lot of devs are hard at work on the core coin software for all of these coins out there. Thats not to say that I don't think that DAFNE should be developed now, but thats why there's no "interest".

Also, its because we've developed a Wall of Text, which apparently most people don't read. If you've ever noticed official ANN pages for coins, they're all broken down into bite sized thoughts.... a drastic contrast to our massive OP.

[koelen3]

This all sounds more like btcjam or bitlendingclub to me , you take a loan and earn trust slowly
But their are people who default and we can't do anything much for that , that;s the main problem here.
But hope it will al work out fine if you have some good guidelines and backing. Though this seems kind of dead

those two services are centralized. Lending service is one of the things I think should be decentralized. Why should people be getting paid simply for going "hey, uh, you got some money. They need some money. So I'm gonna take your money and give it to them, and then they're going to pay me back, then I'll take a fee, and then give you most of it" . What did they do to earn that fee? They've built trust?

You're pretty right but let us suppose you do all that and have a wallet and a decentralized lending system , still the only thing we do is just trust the person , what if they default on the loan , is there any insurance or something?

[GingerAle]

This all sounds more like btcjam or bitlendingclub to me , you take a loan and earn trust slowly
But their are people who default and we can't do anything much for that , that;s the main problem here.
But hope it will al work out fine if you have some good guidelines and backing. Though this seems kind of dead

those two services are centralized. Lending service is one of the things I think should be decentralized. Why should people be getting paid simply for going "hey, uh, you got some money. They need some money. So I'm gonna take your money and give it to them, and then they're going to pay me back, then I'll take a fee, and then give you most of it" . What did they do to earn that fee? They've built trust?

You're pretty right but let us suppose you do all that and have a wallet and a decentralized lending system , still the only thing we do is just trust the person , what if they default on the loan , is there any insurance or something?

Yeah, its in the OP. Basically, part of the interest charged to the borrower gets put in a Decentralized Autonomous Reserve, which is an algorithm controlled wallet that is distributed amongst all members. 

[koelen3]

Yeah, its in the OP. Basically, part of the interest charged to the borrower gets put in a Decentralized Autonomous Reserve, which is an algorithm controlled wallet that is distributed amongst all members. 

So that can be called fees in a way , what if there won't be so many scams and what will happen to that btc in the so called Decentralized Autonomous Reserve.
Also , this gives a win-win situation to scammers, they just get away like that.
Anyways , i will look forward to this , it has some really nice ideas though it sounds pretty sketchy because of scammers but everything works out somehow and am sure this will too