One opportunity no one in Bitcoin universe talks about

[Furio]

As I said, n00bs will spew nonsense because they don't understand the technical term "scale".

Conflating precision with scaling is hilarious.

The fact that you think holding some knowledge makes you better then N00bs, is hilarious, you were one too, show some fucking respect to others...

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

As I said, n00bs will spew nonsense because they don't understand the technical term "scale".

Conflating precision with scaling is hilarious.

The fact that you think holding some knowledge makes you better then N00bs, is hilarious, you were one too, show some fucking respect to others...

I am respectful to those who accord me the same respect. You can review the following threads which immediately preceded this one, to ascertain how I was disrespected which induced me to give a warning this thread about spewing hatred and ignorance (the two seem to go together, and you are an example because your ignorance of what transpired causes you to spew inappropriate hatred).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=880088.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877398.0

[thelonecrouton]

One has not fully grasped the stupidity of the the whole financial sector until one has understood derivatives. It's howling mad nonsense like derivatives that are responsible for the current worldwide economic shambles.

[pinky]

One has not fully grasped the stupidity of the the whole financial sector until one has understood derivatives. It's howling mad nonsense like derivatives that are responsible for the current worldwide economic shambles.

It's sad that 6 years after financial crisis people still blame imaginary objects for problems. The problems aren't derivatives, the problem is the government, but the main problem is YOU who believe in every shit someone tells you about. Governemt is their to create moral hazard and lure people into hell.

Derivatives are OK, they are good and needed in this world. Peoples and companies need to hedge to save their asses from unexpected things.

[Furio]

One has not fully grasped the stupidity of the the whole financial sector until one has understood derivatives. It's howling mad nonsense like derivatives that are responsible for the current worldwide economic shambles.

It's sad that 6 years after financial crisis people still blame imaginary objects for problems. The problems aren't derivatives, the problem is the government, but the main problem is YOU who believe in every shit someone tells you about. Governemt is their to create moral hazard and lure people into hell.

Derivatives are OK, they are good and needed in this world. Peoples and companies need to hedge to save their asses from unexpected things.

Deratives are OK? Really? What is your opinion on deratives which toy with the global foodmarket, still ok?

[thelonecrouton]

One has not fully grasped the stupidity of the the whole financial sector until one has understood derivatives. It's howling mad nonsense like derivatives that are responsible for the current worldwide economic shambles.

It's sad that 6 years after financial crisis people still blame imaginary objects for problems. The problems aren't derivatives, the problem is the government, but the main problem is YOU who believe in every shit someone tells you about. Governemt is their to create moral hazard and lure people into hell.

Derivatives are OK, they are good and needed in this world. Peoples and companies need to hedge to save their asses from unexpected things.

Your first problem there is that you seem to believe there is any meaningful difference between government and the banking system. Your second is your belief that convoluted imaginary structures to facilitate the breeding of yet more paper currency out of existing paper currency while bleeding the general population dry are 'good and needed.'

I knew that but your point though is so far out-of-context from the OP. I am clearly writing about how to move more capital into the coin without necessarily increasing the price. For example, with bets long and short, they cancel each other out and allow people to hedge.

Think about this paragraph for a minute. "Let's cram shitloads of (someone elses) money into something without making it worth any more, so we can gamble with much bigger amounts!" 

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Fools don't understand that we would have radically reduced level and efficiency of farming without derivatives.

It is not about cramming artificial value, rather businesses can't function without derivatives.

Anyone who disagrees has never run a large corporation.

Everyday you use a derivative. It is called the dollar or Euro. Your unit-of-account protects you from exchange rate timing risk, which enables you to budget and plan.

Shorts provide liquidity to the market (because they have to cover, i.e. buy back in) that prevents waterfall panic crashes and enable price discovery (valuation) to be less volatile.

[toast]

If you don't present a suggestion for improving bitcoin in a way that can't be easily implemented, you will face a "reality rejection wall" from bitcoin fans.

OP you should really look into Bitshares, we are addressing the fact that basic financial instruments on a blockchain are both beneficial for everyone involved and critical for widespread adoption.

[Flashman]

Your second is your belief that convoluted imaginary structures to facilitate the breeding of yet more paper currency out of existing paper currency while bleeding the general population dry are 'good and needed.'

Yes, that's the logic short circuit that he can't seem to see "OMG banking system has huge faults which make it inevitable it will blow up any time..blah blah.. blah.. lets replicate them in detail in bitcoin."

Where the blah blahs are ever decreasing circles of irrelevance devoted to trying to confuse people with average IQ into reverence for his fantasy rooted "superior knowledge".

I can't believe he's ever been in charge of anything more consequential than a mail cart by the way he can't put forward a concise, well delineated proposal. What we get is a halfassed vague solution that he spends the next several pages scratching up badly defined and dubious problems for it to solve.

[thelonecrouton]

Fools don't understand that we would have radically reduced level and efficiency of farming without derivatives.

It is not about cramming artificial value, rather businesses can't function without derivatives.

Anyone who disagrees has never run a large corporation.

Everyday you use a derivative. It is called the dollar or Euro. Your unit-of-account protects you from exchange rate timing risk, which enables you to budget and plan.

Shorts provide liquidity to the market (because they have to cover, i.e. buy back in) that prevents waterfall panic crashes and enable price discovery (valuation) to be less volatile.

Every single sentence in this post is so profoundly daft that I think UnobtaniumBollocks might actually be a real life economist.

[DooMAD]

Seems I have to bring this out of retirement:

*Disclaimer* This is an AnonyMint UnunoctiumTesticles thread likely to contain unrealistic and purely hypothetical scenarios that may be closer to fiction than any semblance of reality, along with false logic and copious amounts of clutching at straws.

[jonald_fyookball]

let's not pick on the guy, he just wants some good conversation / debate.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Well it is mutual. I think you are fools. And one side will be doing the laughing at the end.

[mymenace]

Thank for those who have more knowledge about derivatives taking the time to make some explanations. Admittedly my patience was too short to elaborate sufficiently.

It doesn't really matter that some people are ignorant of the utility of derivatives, because they will always gravitate to what is succeeding.

And derivatives boost the ecosystem by orders-of-magnitude, because a large portion of the business world can't participate without them. No hedging, sorry they can't do Bitcoin.

how do side chains fit in to this scenario of derivatives

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Thank for those who have more knowledge about derivatives taking the time to make some explanations. Admittedly my patience was too short to elaborate sufficiently.

It doesn't really matter that some people are ignorant of the utility of derivatives, because they will always gravitate to what is succeeding.

And derivatives boost the ecosystem by orders-of-magnitude, because a large portion of the business world can't participate without them. No hedging, sorry they can't do Bitcoin.

how do side chains fit in to this scenario of derivatives

Merged-mining was my recent idea of how to do the programmable block chain correctly, not Ethereum nor Bitshares.

[toast]

Thank for those who have more knowledge about derivatives taking the time to make some explanations. Admittedly my patience was too short to elaborate sufficiently.

It doesn't really matter that some people are ignorant of the utility of derivatives, because they will always gravitate to what is succeeding.

And derivatives boost the ecosystem by orders-of-magnitude, because a large portion of the business world can't participate without them. No hedging, sorry they can't do Bitcoin.

how do side chains fit in to this scenario of derivatives

Merged-mining was my recent idea of how to do the programmable block chain correctly, not Ethereum nor Bitshares.

Bitshares actually started out as groups competing application-specific blockchains but all minor chains were abandoned in favor of pushing BTSX (branded just "BTS") adoption to get bitUSD network effect.

BTS delegate nodes provide a way to create ephemeral bridges between distinct chains while letting each retain their sovereignty.

Realistically the application-specific chains that should emerge soonest are voting and DNS which both have BTS sidechain projects already underway.

[UnunoctiumTesticles]

Thank for those who have more knowledge about derivatives taking the time to make some explanations. Admittedly my patience was too short to elaborate sufficiently.

It doesn't really matter that some people are ignorant of the utility of derivatives, because they will always gravitate to what is succeeding.

And derivatives boost the ecosystem by orders-of-magnitude, because a large portion of the business world can't participate without them. No hedging, sorry they can't do Bitcoin.

how do side chains fit in to this scenario of derivatives

Merged-mining was my recent idea of how to do the programmable block chain correctly, not Ethereum nor Bitshares.

Bitshares actually started out as groups competing application-specific blockchains but all minor chains were abandoned in favor of pushing BTSX (branded just "BTS") adoption to get bitUSD network effect.

This is useful case history feedback. I like data. Thanks.

I don't think it would be possible to put monetary value in each side-chain. Naturally the market would want to consolidate value because it reduces risk (except for the long-tail risk such as censorship of one chain, but markets don't usually place much value on long-tail risk).

Rather I advocate the programmable aspects be in side-chains, and be paid for with the main chain economic unit. The miners will mine them because they are incentivized with payment on a competing basis. This reduces risk of otherwise forcing all miners to process all experiments in programmability.

Realistically the application-specific chains that should emerge soonest are voting and DNS which both have BTS sidechain projects already underway.

Yes these are important functions of a programmable block chain.