Bitcoin Forum
December 04, 2016, 02:03:27 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Shouldn't the offcial Bitcoin client be advertised as running your own bank?  (Read 1549 times)
interlagos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 497


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
 #1

This might help alleviate some confusion people are having with blockchain download time.

It's not a small utility program to send and receive bitcoins as many newcomers might think.
It's a full-fledged Bitcoin Bank node with certain requirements for HDD space, processing power and security.

And then if they don't want their own bank they are free to choose lite clients or e-wallets.
What do you think? Having to maintain the blockchain is nothing compared to what's needed to have your own fiat bank, this should buy us some time.
1480817007
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480817007

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480817007
Reply with quote  #2

1480817007
Report to moderator
1480817007
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480817007

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480817007
Reply with quote  #2

1480817007
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
publio
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 64


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 02:55:20 PM
 #2

Does the bitcoin client accept deposits, and give out loans?

It doesn't seem like a bank.

DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
 #3

In the US (and in many other countries) the word "bank" has specific legal meaning.   It would be a good way to attract the wrong kind of attention from regulators.  You are prohibited from even incorporating a company with the word "bank" in the name unless you registered bank due to the potential confusion it would lead to.

Also the client is more like a processing node in VISA network than a bank.  Personally I would love to see the two aspects completely split; the processing node and the wallet/client.  To be a node I don't need a client/wallet and to have a client I don't need a node on the same machine but currently those two independent functions are tightly integrated which is a pain for custom development.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
June 18, 2012, 03:02:30 PM
 #4

Does the bitcoin client accept deposits, and give out loans?

It doesn't seem like a bank.

It enables you to do those things with funds you provide. Just like a building downtown and 20 employees can accept deposits and give out loans.

I think 'bank' is closer than 'wallet' but still not perfect.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
Topazan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 354


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:18:45 PM
 #5

I've been thinking it's more accurate to describe the whole network as a bank.  You can make deposits by buying bitcoin, and withdrawals by selling bitcoin.  There's a certain amount of interest from deflation, and of course it lets you do something equivalent to checking or wire transfer.

That said, I agree that what we call a 'wallet' is more like a bank account than a physical wallet.

Save the last bitcoin for me!
mccorvic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
 #6

No. People do not want to run their own bank. They want banks to be banks.

Offering Video/Audio Editing Services since 2011 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77932.0
Boussac
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1173


e-ducat.fr


View Profile WWW
June 18, 2012, 03:24:43 PM
 #7

This might help alleviate some confusion people are having with blockchain download time.

It's not a small utility program to send and receive bitcoins as many newcomers might think.
It's a full-fledged Bitcoin Bank node with certain requirements for HDD space, processing power and security.

And then if they don't want their own bank they are free to choose lite clients or e-wallets.
What do you think? Having to maintain the blockchain is nothing compared to what's needed to have your own fiat bank, this should buy us some time.

The bitcoin "official" client is software that enables people to manage themselves money deposits and transfers, just faster and cheaper than their bank does.
Loading and maintaining an up-to-date local database of transactions is the only fixed price to pay to the p2p network (aside from the tx fees that are a variable cost).

interlagos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 497


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:28:41 PM
 #8

In the US (and in many other countries) the word "bank" has specific legal meaning.   It would be a good way to attract the wrong kind of attention from regulators.  You are prohibited from even incorporating a company with the word "bank" in the name unless you registered bank due to the potential confusion it would lead to.

Also the client is more like a processing node in VISA network than a bank.  Personally I would love to see the two aspects completely split; the processing node and the wallet/client.  To be a node I don't need a client/wallet and to have a client I don't need a node on the same machine but currently those two independent functions are tightly integrated which is a pain for custom development.


I didn't know about legal issues it might cause.
The analogy I had in mind was banks communicating with each other via SWIFT network to achieve settlement of balances each bank and account has.
That's exactly what bitcoin nodes do.
interlagos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 497


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:31:47 PM
 #9

No. People do not want to run their own bank. They want banks to be banks.

It's ok, then we should let them know somehow that by using official client they will be attempting to run the Bitcoin Bank node!
Currently they might think it's something small and simple like maybe a BitTorrent client.
It is not!
interlagos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 497


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:35:49 PM
 #10

This might help alleviate some confusion people are having with blockchain download time.

It's not a small utility program to send and receive bitcoins as many newcomers might think.
It's a full-fledged Bitcoin Bank node with certain requirements for HDD space, processing power and security.

And then if they don't want their own bank they are free to choose lite clients or e-wallets.
What do you think? Having to maintain the blockchain is nothing compared to what's needed to have your own fiat bank, this should buy us some time.

The bitcoin "official" client is software that enables people to manage themselves money deposits and transfers, just faster and cheaper than their bank does.
Loading and maintaining an up-to-date local database of transactions is the only fixed price to pay to the p2p network (aside from the tx fees that are a variable cost).

Exactly, when people are nagging about blockchain download they should understand that what they are doing is akin running a bank in fiat world and not something like using PayPal.
Topazan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 354


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:41:02 PM
 #11

I think the important thing is that people should understand lite wallets and e-wallets are available.  Maybe the problem isn't how full wallets are marketed to casual users, but that they're marketed to them at all.

Save the last bitcoin for me!
mccorvic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
June 18, 2012, 03:43:02 PM
 #12

No. People do not want to run their own bank. They want banks to be banks.

It's ok, then we should let them know somehow that by using official client they will be attempting to run the Bitcoin Bank node!
Currently they might think it's something small and simple like maybe a BitTorrent client.
It is not!

I still think using the term bank in any form will just confuse people.  Remember, we're talking about people who most likely don't know zilch about economics, banking, or bitcoin.  And they probably won't really care to know (they're busy people).

The term bank makes people think of large, complex, and expensive institutions.  Wallet is something they hold onto that stores their money.  Wallet is very easy to understand and personable.  

Offering Video/Audio Editing Services since 2011 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77932.0
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
June 18, 2012, 03:59:03 PM
 #13

No. People do not want to run their own bank. They want banks to be banks.

It's ok, then we should let them know somehow that by using official client they will be attempting to run the Bitcoin Bank node!
Currently they might think it's something small and simple like maybe a BitTorrent client.
It is not!

I still think using the term bank in any form will just confuse people.  Remember, we're talking about people who most likely don't know zilch about economics, banking, or bitcoin.  And they probably won't really care to know (they're busy people).

The term bank makes people think of large, complex, and expensive institutions.  Wallet is something they hold onto that stores their money.  Wallet is very easy to understand and personable.  

Yes, and most people will use a 'wallet' currently known as a light node and stop using 'banks'. It just lets them know they are getting into more than they might want.


Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
hazek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 04:29:57 PM
 #14

Forget the word bank, the official client is a ledger and a wallet.

If they don't want the ledger part, direct them to a wallet only client, if they also want a copy of the ledger, they can download the full thing.

Problem solved. (and I do believe this is a problem since I also feel like too many new potential users get discouraged after they unnecessarily download the official client)

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
interlagos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 497


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 05:52:25 PM
 #15

I just thought that Bitcoin Server Wallet might be a better name for Bitcoin-Qt. But that will only make things easier to understand for people familiar with computers. Then in the description we may compare Bitcoin Server Wallet to a bank in a financial world without formally calling it a bank to avoid legal issues.

Anyways I heard discussions among devs about separating full nodes and SPV nodes sometime in the future. So we will probably make it more clear by then.
mccorvic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
June 18, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
 #16

Forget the word bank, the official client is a ledger and a wallet.

If they don't want the ledger part, direct them to a wallet only client, if they also want a copy of the ledger, they can download the full thing.

Problem solved. (and I do believe this is a problem since I also feel like too many new potential users get discouraged after they unnecessarily download the official client)

I think "ledger" is a better choice of words, fo sho. 

Offering Video/Audio Editing Services since 2011 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77932.0
MaxSan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 368


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 07:23:14 PM
 #17

Full Bitcoin Ledger & Wallet application.

There. No more bitching Wink
barbarousrelic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 675


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 07:25:59 PM
 #18

What is a bank?

A bank is a place that

1)Takes deposits and pays some interest for them.
2)Lends out money and charges more interest than they pay for 1)
3)Acts as a clearing house for transactions.

Bitcoin software only acts as the third of these functions.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
cbeast
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 11:12:53 PM
 #19

When did banks come to be such all important businesses? What did banks ever do for anyone? Banks don't heal people, they don't invent things, all they do is store money. They don't even loan money, their depositors do that, well theoretically anyway. Look what they did to the world economy. It's time they go into the history books. Be your own bank.

If the Bitcoin client was advertised that way, it wouldn't be making any specific claims. I would call it the Piggy Bank for grown-ups.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
istar
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 524


View Profile
June 18, 2012, 11:16:34 PM
 #20

No, that would simply be wrong, you are far from being a bank just by running the client or using Bitcoins.
To transfer or store value, is not the same thing as being a bank.

To be a bank you must as a business give out loans and take deposits etc.
You must also use fractional reserves, and try to become to big to fail   Wink

There is a bank running by using Bitcoin as currency, The Islamic Bitcoin Bank.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=21732.0






Bitcoins - Because we should not pay to use our money
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!