Someone else can waste their own time getting to the bottom of this...

[Raoul Duke]

Bitlane, why are you pretending that you want to protect gigavps?

What's the reason to be sorry for him, may I ask?
If he goes bankrupt, which I really doubt, because he "sold" all his stuff for 2x the current BFL price, nobody else but himself put him in that position. Only his bond holders will get fucked. Gigavps already pocket his investment + profit. Get over it.

You're just butthurt because your wife already gets mad at you for spending money on GPU's, imagine what she will do when all the GPU's you bought become useless.
Again, just like gigavps, it was you and you only who put yourself in that position, not BFL.
I don't see BFL forcing anyone to buy their products. People do it on their own will.
If someone struggled to buy a minirig for $15k, then they shouldn't have bought it in the first place.

The game changes all the time. You adapt or you die. It's as simple as that. Be it in Bitcoin mining or anything else.

[1713496974]

1713496974

[1713496974]

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[1713496974]

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[yochdog]

Take those users who 'shot the wad' to purchase TONS of BFL hardware, that will essentially be worth NOTHING if they keep it and will only end up forcing them to spend MORE, just to get back on top where they were before.
Sure, some might see this as a great deal....but what about THOSE who STRUGGLED to buy 1x Mini-Rig @ $15,000 ? How easy will it be to come up with another $15,000 just to be competitive again, rather than being left with a $15,000/25 GH DOOR STOP when that SAME Mining power will be purchased by NEW buyers at a FRACTION of the price ?

This is the exact scenario that is going to very bad for BFL if bitlane's conclusions are true. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for BFL to clarify.

+1 for clarification

The silence is deafening......

[Raoul Duke]

You're just butthurt because your wife already gets mad at you for spending money on GPU's, imagine what she will do when all the GPU's you bought become useless.

LOL...you don't know me or my situation. I post shit like that as an excuse. It's fun to joke about stuff like that. If it were true, would I really post it in public ?looking for sympathy ? or to show who really wore the pants in my family....lmao. Come one.
She's never cried about the $50k that I have invested in my Skyline GT-R project, the $20k+ that I have in Car audio laying around the house, that I have not even used yet....or any other toys that I buy on a whim. Why bitcoin ? it actually MAKES money.....LOL

Ok, you're just butthurt because you'll stop making money, not because of your wife. Got it.

[SgtSpike]

Again, why are you so concerned with other people's money problems?  Be thankful that you made what you believe to be the right decision, and let the cards fall where they will for everyone else.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ME DAMN IT !

It's about the TRUSTWORTHY MEMBERS of this community getting fed up and saying FUCK IT !
(leaving the block chain vulnerable to OTHERS who might build up the power to ATTACK IT)

We need Anchors in the Mining/Venture Community.....Trustworthy people. Not a bunch of Fly-by-night Mining Corporations, like we have seen in the past, FAIL and take everyone down a peg with them.

I will trade one gigavps (who I still think is a dick at times...LOL) for 10 of you, or 90% of this community... any day of the week.

Personalities clash, that is life. gigavps is a standup guy who doesn't deserve to get fucked over for $130,000....although there are others in smaller situations.

Ok, that's fair enough, and makes sense.

[MXRider]

In another thread user bulanula said kudos to BFL. It took little over 4minutes from BFL to answer "thanks".

If someone is wondering why I am so mad. Well, I will have to get out mining when ASICs hit the market. I really liked this stuff. End of bitcoin. Mark my words. Mining won't decentralized anymore.

That doesn't make any sense.  Why will you have to get out of mining when ASICs hit the market?

$150 is currently cheaper than just about any mining solution out there.  If anything, in the long run, that will help to continue to decentralize mining, not centralize it.

Basically everyone has two options from now on: get out of mining or buy from BFL. I'm not comfortable with the latter due to their pre-ordering policy (money tied up weeks with no guarantees).

ASIC will decentralize if and only if everyone buys more HW. I don't think majority of miners (especially new miners) are ready to update their whole farm. Buying 3.5GH means nothing if there are 40GH available @1299$. Mining = BFL

I was about to order 30 singles 6 weeks ago but decided not to when I found out the lead time from BFL. Changed my order to another FPGA manufacturer but I guess that's not going to happen either.

How can we advertise bitcoin as decentralized if one company has a monopoly manufacturing mining HW.

[rjk]

Basically everyone has two options from now on: get out of mining or buy from BFL.  

Possibly, but not for long with the up and coming open source ASIC project. Additionally, Enterpoint have stated that they may be able to produce something very competitive using FPGAs, although I'm not quite sure how.

[Raoul Duke]

How can we advertise bitcoin as decentralized if one company has a monopoly manufacturing mining HW.

I didn't see you complaint about ATI...

[SgtSpike]

How can we advertise bitcoin as decentralized if one company has a monopoly manufacturing mining HW.

Simple - Bitcoin MINING is decentralized, whether or not those miners come from the same source or different sources.

[MXRider]

Basically everyone has two options from now on: get out of mining or buy from BFL.  

Possibly, but not for long with the up and coming open source ASIC project. Additionally, Enterpoint have stated that they may be able to produce something very competitive using FPGAs, although I'm not quite sure how.

This is coming from a guy who likes Enterpoint: I call BS. Look at the prices! Maybe in terms of MH/W but that doesn't matter since it's 20 already.

[rjk]

Basically everyone has two options from now on: get out of mining or buy from BFL.  

Possibly, but not for long with the up and coming open source ASIC project. Additionally, Enterpoint have stated that they may be able to produce something very competitive using FPGAs, although I'm not quite sure how.

This is coming from a guy who likes Enterpoint: I call BS. Look at the prices! Maybe in terms of MH/W but that doesn't matter since it's 20 already.

Sure, but LX150 isn't the only option. Personally, I'm interested to see what they come up with.

[MXRider]

How can we advertise bitcoin as decentralized if one company has a monopoly manufacturing mining HW.

I didn't see you complaint about ATI...

That's different because everyone had the cards and GPU prices are not linked to BTC. I just think BFL has too much power on BTC, that's all.

[BFL-Engineer]

Take those users who 'shot the wad' to purchase TONS of BFL hardware, that will essentially be worth NOTHING if they keep it and will only end up forcing them to spend MORE, just to get back on top where they were before.
Sure, some might see this as a great deal....but what about THOSE who STRUGGLED to buy 1x Mini-Rig @ $15,000 ? How easy will it be to come up with another $15,000 just to be competitive again, rather than being left with a $15,000/25 GH DOOR STOP when that SAME Mining power will be purchased by NEW buyers at a FRACTION of the price ?

This is the exact scenario that is going to very bad for BFL if bitlane's conclusions are true. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for BFL to clarify.

+1 for clarification

I'm sorry for catching up a bit late on this thread. To set an example, imagine that you are willing to purchase
a 1299$ BitForce SC Single. What you can do is you can send the unit back to us, and 1299$ will be reduced to 699$.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

[rjk]

Take those users who 'shot the wad' to purchase TONS of BFL hardware, that will essentially be worth NOTHING if they keep it and will only end up forcing them to spend MORE, just to get back on top where they were before.
Sure, some might see this as a great deal....but what about THOSE who STRUGGLED to buy 1x Mini-Rig @ $15,000 ? How easy will it be to come up with another $15,000 just to be competitive again, rather than being left with a $15,000/25 GH DOOR STOP when that SAME Mining power will be purchased by NEW buyers at a FRACTION of the price ?

This is the exact scenario that is going to very bad for BFL if bitlane's conclusions are true. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for BFL to clarify.

+1 for clarification

I'm sorry for catching up a bit late on this thread. To set an example, imagine that you are willing to purchase
a 1299$ BitForce SC Single. What you can do is you can send the unit back to us, and 1299$ will be reduced to 699$.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Can you apply more than one Single towards a greater product? Such as 2x Singles = 1x SC single + $99.

[yochdog]

You're just butthurt because your wife already gets mad at you for spending money on GPU's, imagine what she will do when all the GPU's you bought become useless.

LOL...you don't know me or my situation. I post shit like that as an excuse. It's fun to joke about stuff like that. If it were true, would I really post it in public ?looking for sympathy ? or to show who really wore the pants in my family....lmao. Come on.
She's never cried about the $50k that I have invested in my Skyline GT-R project, the $20k+ that I have in Car audio laying around the house, that I have not even used yet....or any other toys that I buy on a whim, the fact that I have to buy a new TV every 6 months or build a new PC for myself when ever I wish....hehe. Why bitcoin ? it actually MAKES money.....LOL

Again, why are you so concerned with other people's money problems?  Be thankful that you made what you believe to be the right decision, and let the cards fall where they will for everyone else.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ME DAMN IT !

It's about the TRUSTWORTHY MEMBERS of this community getting fed up and saying FUCK IT !
(leaving the block chain vulnerable to OTHERS who might build up the power to ATTACK IT)

We need Anchors in the Mining/Venture Community.....Trustworthy people. Not a bunch of Fly-by-night Mining Corporations, like we have seen in the past, FAIL and take everyone down a peg with them.

I will trade one gigavps (who I still think is a dick at times...LOL) for 10 of you, or 90% of this community... any day of the week.

Personalities clash, that is life. gigavps is a standup guy who doesn't deserve to get fucked over for $130,000....although there are others in smaller situations.

ONE MORE TIME......Giga is not the one who is in line to get fucked here......it's the BONDHOLDERS!

[ice_chill]

Well let me ask you this. What other alternatives are there? I mean people are going to buy the 1TH monsters, the difficulty will jump (how high is anyone's guess).
What can anyone really do about it? Let me think...nothing!!!
For all this to work we have to roll with the body-blows as well as the praise.

In my last revamp, late spring, I purchased myself 15 new 7970s @ $6,000 to hold me over until all of the new Technology uncertainty was cleared up, leaving ASICs ONLY as my next upgrade.
By the time the reward HALVES, my cards will have paid for themselves and I will then sell them @ 100% profit.

NOW, once my cards are sold in December to Gamers on Ebay, even at half price, I can take that $3,000 and invest it back into ASICs and be (literally) 10X better off than I was before.

ON THE FLIPSIDE...

Take those users who 'shot the wad' to purchase TONS of BFL hardware, that will essentially be worth NOTHING if they keep it and will only end up forcing them to spend MORE, just to get back on top where they were before.
Sure, some might see this as a great deal....but what about THOSE who STRUGGLED to buy 1x Mini-Rig @ $15,000 ? How easy will it be to come up with another $15,000 just to be competitive again, rather than being left with a $15,000/25 GH DOOR STOP when that SAME Mining power will be purchased by NEW buyers at a FRACTION of the price ?

I do not regret using my Video Cards as a temp solution.....and am actually THANKFUL I did, rather than buying BFL hardware at the time.

1. Those who "struggle" with $15000, buy Singles instead, I doubt people who struggle financially make such investments.
2. If you have made such investment and you "struggle" then sell your place in line, there are many people willing to purchase.
3. If you "struggle" then such big investments are simply not for you.

[yjacket]

You're just butthurt because your wife already gets mad at you for spending money on GPU's, imagine what she will do when all the GPU's you bought become useless.

LOL...you don't know me or my situation. I post shit like that as an excuse. It's fun to joke about stuff like that. If it were true, would I really post it in public ?looking for sympathy ? or to show who really wore the pants in my family....lmao. Come on.
She's never cried about the $50k that I have invested in my Skyline GT-R project, the $20k+ that I have in Car audio laying around the house, that I have not even used yet....or any other toys that I buy on a whim, the fact that I have to buy a new TV every 6 months or build a new PC for myself when ever I wish....hehe. Why bitcoin ? it actually MAKES money.....LOL

Again, why are you so concerned with other people's money problems?  Be thankful that you made what you believe to be the right decision, and let the cards fall where they will for everyone else.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ME DAMN IT !

It's about the TRUSTWORTHY MEMBERS of this community getting fed up and saying FUCK IT !
(leaving the block chain vulnerable to OTHERS who might build up the power to ATTACK IT)

We need Anchors in the Mining/Venture Community.....Trustworthy people. Not a bunch of Fly-by-night Mining Corporations, like we have seen in the past, FAIL and take everyone down a peg with them.

I will trade one gigavps (who I still think is a dick at times...LOL) for 10 of you, or 90% of this community... any day of the week.

Personalities clash, that is life. gigavps is a standup guy who doesn't deserve to get fucked over for $130,000....although there are others in smaller situations.

ONE MORE TIME......Giga is not the one who is in line to get fucked here......it's the BONDHOLDERS!

True dat. When i saw them I was amazed. I wish I could issue my own(probably could, but too lazy after 60+ hour weeks).

[imsaguy]

1. Those who "struggle" with $15000, buy Singles instead, I doubt people who struggle financially make such investments.
2. If you have made such investment and you "struggle" then sell your place in line, there are many people willing to purchase.
3. If you "struggle" then such big investments are simply not for you.

Regardless of what you bought, whether it is singles or minirigs, if you essentially have to double down on what you bought so you don't get pushed to obsolescence, your expenses just doubled and what do you have to show for it?  Its not like you're the only one upgrading.  Essentially everyone is getting screwed.  Not having clear terms only makes things worse.

For those that keep asking why bitlane is so worried about the other miners and not himself.. he is a miner.  All miners are in essentially the same circumstances.  You might think you're all special and unique, but this isn't kindergarten and I'm guessing you're just like everyone else when you boil away all the fluff.  Kudos to you bitlane, thistime.

[rjk]

THE NEXT POST NEEDS TO BE FROM BFL ONLY

I do this just to trigger your OCD. Calm down and take your meds.

[ice_chill]

Well they could have skipped the trade-up program. But they decided to include one and people are still not happy, BFL Labs is a business after all not a charity and they don't owe you anything, if you don't like, don't buy from them.

[bitlane]

/thread