Bitcoin Forum
September 21, 2018, 01:10:56 PM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: [PPS multipool] NiceHash.com pool - higher profits than direct mining BTC!  (Read 76746 times)
thepixelgeek
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
 #161

I set Extranonce subscription to "2" (20minutes ago) on my sp20, but it doesn't show up on Westhash. Thoughts? Do i need more patience or is something not working correctly?

Your miner will appear in the list almost instantly you connect it (1 minute).  If you don't see it, then it must be a problem on your side.

It's in the list, but has a red X for extranonce even though I set extranonce to "2" for sp20 settings.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg0vgJO.png
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537535456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537535456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537535456
Reply with quote  #2

1537535456
Report to moderator
1537535456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537535456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537535456
Reply with quote  #2

1537535456
Report to moderator
1537535456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537535456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537535456
Reply with quote  #2

1537535456
Report to moderator
NiceHashSupport
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
April 12, 2015, 03:10:56 PM
 #162

I set Extranonce subscription to "2" (20minutes ago) on my sp20, but it doesn't show up on Westhash. Thoughts? Do i need more patience or is something not working correctly?

Your miner will appear in the list almost instantly you connect it (1 minute).  If you don't see it, then it must be a problem on your side.

It's in the list, but has a red X for extranonce even though I set extranonce to "2" for sp20 settings.



To my knowledge, you should use correct stratum URL for SP20 to use extranonce subscription:

Quote
stratum+tcp://stratum.westhash.com:3334#xnsub

NiceHash.com - Largest Crypto-Mining Marketplace
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2226
Merit: 1338


Avalon 841 rocks


View Profile
April 12, 2015, 03:15:28 PM
 #163

I set Extranonce subscription to "2" (20minutes ago) on my sp20, but it doesn't show up on Westhash. Thoughts? Do i need more patience or is something not working correctly?

you need put

 3334#xnsub   Let me find a photo

try reading here


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=872014.msg10745121#msg10745121

and here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=872014.msg10693626#msg10693626


also there seem to be a handfull of sp20's that just won't do it no matter what you do.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
nicehash
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 852
Merit: 1002


NiceHash.com


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2015, 03:51:01 PM
 #164

I set Extranonce subscription to "2" (20minutes ago) on my sp20, but it doesn't show up on Westhash. Thoughts? Do i need more patience or is something not working correctly?

Your miner will appear in the list almost instantly you connect it (1 minute).  If you don't see it, then it must be a problem on your side.

It's in the list, but has a red X for extranonce even though I set extranonce to "2" for sp20 settings.

Spoondoolies made a bit confusing implementation of cgminer with extranonce support (it has two cgminer binaries installed). Basically you don't have to put "2" into the "ExtraFlag" settings, but rather follow these instructions:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850620.msg10749390#msg10749390

This way any Spondoolies (SP20, SP3x) should work flawlessly with extranonce support.

p.s.: maybe someone should ask Spondoolies support if there is another (more elegant, via GUI) way to enable the second cgminer binary (4.8.0) with extranonce support...

thepixelgeek
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2015, 04:33:13 PM
 #165

I updated the stratum url to stratum+tcp://stratum.westhash.com:3334#xnsub, and tried both with/without the flag setting to "2". Didn't work.

After reading a bit, looks like I have to update to cgminer 4.8 from 4.7. Not sure how to do that yet. Could use a little help there... After which I need to ssh into my miner to set the extranonce.

Sound correct?

Edit: Status on westhash is "dead".
thepixelgeek
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2015, 04:40:41 PM
 #166

I updated the stratum url to stratum+tcp://stratum.westhash.com:3334#xnsub, and tried both with/without the flag setting to "2". Didn't work.

After reading a bit, looks like I have to update to cgminer 4.8 from 4.7. Not sure how to do that yet. Could use a little help there... After which I need to ssh into my miner to set the extranonce.

Sound correct?

Edit: Status on westhash is "dead".

After more reading, I discovered setting the flag to "2" and then rebooting solved the issue. Now on cgminer 4.8 and extranonce is turned on at Westhash. Nice!

Thanks all!!
notlist3d
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470
Merit: 1000



View Profile
April 13, 2015, 03:59:23 AM
 #167

I updated the stratum url to stratum+tcp://stratum.westhash.com:3334#xnsub, and tried both with/without the flag setting to "2". Didn't work.

After reading a bit, looks like I have to update to cgminer 4.8 from 4.7. Not sure how to do that yet. Could use a little help there... After which I need to ssh into my miner to set the extranonce.

Sound correct?

Edit: Status on westhash is "dead".

After more reading, I discovered setting the flag to "2" and then rebooting solved the issue. Now on cgminer 4.8 and extranonce is turned on at Westhash. Nice!

Thanks all!!

Thanks worked perfect for me aswell.  Set flag to 2, used the url above seems to work great!
alh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011


View Profile
April 14, 2015, 05:28:22 AM
 #168

So for the SP20, in order to get cgminer 4.8, with the Spondoolies 2.6.14 software, you need to do:

1) Set the "Extra Flag" to 2 on the Settings page.

2) Reboot the SP20. Not just restart the miner, but actually reboot it.

Once that's all done (about 2 minutes), and you have started the miner again after the reboot, then on the main "SP20 Jackson" page, it will show cgminer 4.8.0 rather than the 4.7.0 version.

You should now be able to fiddle with the pool settings to actually add Westhash/Nicehash with the #xnsub and other stuff required. The cgminer 4.8.0 software seems to work just fine with Slush, I am now off to fiddle with the pools.

It's kind of a convoluted way to make cgminer 4.8.0 as the miner. It's also easy to forget the reboot, not just miner restart.
thepixelgeek
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2015, 10:59:53 PM
 #169

I have password set to P=0.0139, however my sp20's are still mining at Westhash even though the price states:

Algorithm   Port              Current Speed            Currently Paying                     24h Payouts
SHA256           3334              859.6464 TH/s           0.0098 BTC/TH/Day  4%            0.0101 BTC/TH/Day

Shouldn't my miners shift to the next available pool in the list?
NiceHashSupport
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500



View Profile WWW
April 14, 2015, 11:03:54 PM
 #170

I have password set to P=0.0139, however my sp20's are still mining at Westhash even though the price states:

Algorithm   Port              Current Speed            Currently Paying                     24h Payouts
SHA256           3334              859.6464 TH/s           0.0098 BTC/TH/Day  4%            0.0101 BTC/TH/Day

Shouldn't my miners shift to the next available pool in the list?

Use lower case p and not P.

NiceHash.com - Largest Crypto-Mining Marketplace
thepixelgeek
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 59
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 14, 2015, 11:08:01 PM
 #171

I have password set to P=0.0139, however my sp20's are still mining at Westhash even though the price states:

Algorithm   Port              Current Speed            Currently Paying                     24h Payouts
SHA256           3334              859.6464 TH/s           0.0098 BTC/TH/Day  4%            0.0101 BTC/TH/Day

Shouldn't my miners shift to the next available pool in the list?

Use lower case p and not P.

Nice! That did it. Westhash now dead. Thank you.
alh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 06:11:23 AM
 #172

I've just in the last 3 days rigged my SP20 to use Westhash as my primary pool, and Slush as my backup pool. Prior to this, I have mined only on Slush. I currently have my password on Westhash set with p=.0104. My SP20 has spent a great deal of time on Westhash, with some short breaks back to Slush.

My general sense is that I am doing less well on Westhash. Yes, I know it's only 48 hours of experience, and Slush might be on a lucky streak. Nevertheless, I am wondering if my p= value is too low, or if I am just not understanding what to expect. My simplistic vies is that I would set p= based on the expected BTC I would earn in a day with 1TH. Based on bitcoinwisdom, that looks to be about .01017 (round up to .0102). I then chose a value such that it would only switch if it was "real deal" on Westhash.

I would appreciate any comments and insight that folks have to share.
Digitalmocking
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 17, 2015, 06:25:50 AM
 #173

I've just in the last 3 days rigged my SP20 to use Westhash as my primary pool, and Slush as my backup pool. Prior to this, I have mined only on Slush. I currently have my password on Westhash set with p=.0104. My SP20 has spent a great deal of time on Westhash, with some short breaks back to Slush.

My general sense is that I am doing less well on Westhash. Yes, I know it's only 48 hours of experience, and Slush might be on a lucky streak. Nevertheless, I am wondering if my p= value is too low, or if I am just not understanding what to expect. My simplistic vies is that I would set p= based on the expected BTC I would earn in a day with 1TH. Based on bitcoinwisdom, that looks to be about .01017 (round up to .0102). I then chose a value such that it would only switch if it was "real deal" on Westhash.

I would appreciate any comments and insight that folks have to share.

I don't think pool hopping benefits you on Slush with how they deal with discards.  A ppnls pool will work better if you're swapping back and forth.

kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2576
Merit: 1053


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 06:57:19 AM
 #174

On slush's pool you have to consider your expected payout based on what % of the time you spend mining on the pool.
On some pools you'd consider the % you are mining each day as the % of a days payout you'd expect to average.

On slush he pays so that you lose out if you don't mine 24/7 if you have an outage or stop mining.

So if you mine there 90% of the time (you have to include outages also), then you will expect to average over time, less than 90% of what you expect.
i.e. you expect to average less than 90% of the expected full time pay for mining 90% of the time.
Or in other terms, if the pool luck average is 100%, you'd expect to average less than 90% for mining 90% of the time.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
alh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 07:45:11 AM
 #175

This is what I have never really understood about the "multiple pool" strategy with Westhash as the primary. Virtually all the other "normal" pools (e.g. Slush, Kano, etc), all cost me something if I am not there essentially 24x7. Yes I understand that outages happen, and I try and minimize my downtime, because then it appears to the pool as if I am "pool hopping", which in one way or another is discouraged. As I understand Kano's pool, until I have been mining pretty steadily for 2+ days, I am not really getting the "full rate" for my efforts. Once I have been there "steadily enough", then all is good. That feels like discoraging "pool hopping".

This isn't a specific complaint about Kano, or Slush for that matter. I just don't understand how it works to have Westhash as your primary, which switches on/off depending on the rate, and any other pool.

Why do people do this? It seems like you need to rig this with a pretty high bar for Westhash, so that it will only "hop away" from your "real primary" (e.g. Kano, Slush, etc), to offset the cost of the switch. That suggests that my p= would need to be way more than .0102. In other works only use Westhash if the returns are really "outsized" (e.g. the Paycoin frenzy), and not just a little bit better.
aarons6
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1003


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 08:20:41 AM
 #176

This is what I have never really understood about the "multiple pool" strategy with Westhash as the primary. Virtually all the other "normal" pools (e.g. Slush, Kano, etc), all cost me something if I am not there essentially 24x7. Yes I understand that outages happen, and I try and minimize my downtime, because then it appears to the pool as if I am "pool hopping", which in one way or another is discouraged. As I understand Kano's pool, until I have been mining pretty steadily for 2+ days, I am not really getting the "full rate" for my efforts. Once I have been there "steadily enough", then all is good. That feels like discoraging "pool hopping".

This isn't a specific complaint about Kano, or Slush for that matter. I just don't understand how it works to have Westhash as your primary, which switches on/off depending on the rate, and any other pool.

Why do people do this? It seems like you need to rig this with a pretty high bar for Westhash, so that it will only "hop away" from your "real primary" (e.g. Kano, Slush, etc), to offset the cost of the switch. That suggests that my p= would need to be way more than .0102. In other works only use Westhash if the returns are really "outsized" (e.g. the Paycoin frenzy), and not just a little bit better.

some pools pay PPS.. like f2pool..

westhash is nice, but it has huge dips in payouts.. sometimes it goes really high but others its far below.

you can see what f2pool pays out, and then make your p= so it will never go below that.
kano
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2576
Merit: 1053


Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 08:32:33 AM
 #177

This is what I have never really understood about the "multiple pool" strategy with Westhash as the primary. Virtually all the other "normal" pools (e.g. Slush, Kano, etc), all cost me something if I am not there essentially 24x7. Yes I understand that outages happen, and I try and minimize my downtime, because then it appears to the pool as if I am "pool hopping", which in one way or another is discouraged. As I understand Kano's pool, until I have been mining pretty steadily for 2+ days, I am not really getting the "full rate" for my efforts. Once I have been there "steadily enough", then all is good. That feels like discoraging "pool hopping".
No, in the case of my pool, that's simply misunderstanding the 5N (500%) payout.

Consider this: if you mine at a PPS pool and the pool finds a block 5 minutes after you start mining - what will your payout be?
Of course it will only be the number of shares you found, not your hash rate as a fraction of the whole pool, of the block
(and of course that isn't supposed to be affected by when the pool finds a block)
As the day progresses, your reward increases ... and it does this each time you submit a share.
Do you get paid into your wallet each time you find a share? No, you get paid on the basis of the rules of the pool, at certain points over time.

On my PPLNS pool you get paid each time a block is found.
What you get paid, is the % of shares you have in the total shares accounted to the block.
That is always the same no matter how long you have been mining.
Since the payout is for 500% of shares before the block was found, each share is paid ~1/5 PPS.
But each share is expected to be paid, on average, 5 times. So it takes time for each share to be fully paid.
You don't expect to lose BTC on average no matter how you mine, the pool's block finding luck is the only thing that affects how many times a share is paid.

Quote
This isn't a specific complaint about Kano, or Slush for that matter. I just don't understand how it works to have Westhash as your primary, which switches on/off depending on the rate, and any other pool.

Why do people do this? It seems like you need to rig this with a pretty high bar for Westhash, so that it will only "hop away" from your "real primary" (e.g. Kano, Slush, etc), to offset the cost of the switch. That suggests that my p= would need to be way more than .0102. In other works only use Westhash if the returns are really "outsized" (e.g. the Paycoin frenzy), and not just a little bit better.
No, on my pool your expected average reward is the % of time you spend mining.
Jumping on or off doesn't change the expected average.
The only caveat is if a block ever lasts for more than 500%, then shares at the start of the block will not get paid as the block gets longer than 500%
That is rare, and we have only had one block so far over 500%.
The CDF of 500% is 0.0067 so that would only expect to affect on average less than 2 in every 250 blocks, and the affect vs full time mining would be very small each time.

I gave slushes example above because his payout scheme specifically disadvantages anyone who doesn't mine 24/7

In my case the disadvantage isn't to stop people hopping on and off at all, it is simply that with the share age limit at 500% the average expected effect of hopping is exceedingly small, but making it more than 500% means getting your full share payout takes longer.

The only ways to avoid shares ageing are:
1) Make the life of the share longer ... but that doesn't avoid it, just makes it longer and less likely before it happens and increases the time to reach maximum payout
2) Prop - but then all the long term miners get paid less for their shares than the smart hoppers, so no one in their right mind would mine at a Prop pool.
3) PPS - but the PPS pool should charge you a higher fee or expect to go broke or have problems paying ... case in point ... BAN
With PPS, you need to see what PPS you are getting (i.e. what fee you are paying) vs the expected 100% since that fee may well far outweigh the rare/tiny expected loss due to hopping on the 'better' pools Smiley

So, I guess the answer to your question is that some pools are bad for hopping and others the effect is so small it is clearly better than PPS mining in the long term.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
alh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011


View Profile
April 17, 2015, 04:26:47 PM
 #178

Thanks for a cogent, clear, and calm response to my inquiry. When I started back in 2013, I was mostly concerned about pool manager fraud, and it seemed like Slush was a good choice using that metric. As I have gotten more educated, and more invested, it seems I should pay attention to some other options for a pool.

Thanks again, Kano!
Digitalmocking
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 17, 2015, 06:23:30 PM
 #179

Thanks for a cogent, clear, and calm response to my inquiry. When I started back in 2013, I was mostly concerned about pool manager fraud, and it seemed like Slush was a good choice using that metric. As I have gotten more educated, and more invested, it seems I should pay attention to some other options for a pool.

Thanks again, Kano!

I strongly recommend kano.is to mine on, he's active, super helpful and constantly working on development of ckpool.
jonnybravo0311
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1344
Merit: 1015


Mine at Jonny's Pool


View Profile WWW
April 17, 2015, 06:38:14 PM
 #180

On my PPLNS pool you get paid each time a block is found.
Just a tiny correction to this statement.  On kano's pool you get paid once the block is found, confirmed and the generated coins from the block reward have matured.  I only write this so that you don't think you get paid immediately when a block is found Smiley.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!