Bitcoin will not usher in crypto-anarchism, but rather neo-Classicisism

[jehst]

If the following are true

1. Central banking is necessary for the continued existence of the welfare-megastate.
2. Crypto-currency will result in widespread tax evasion and opting out of the central banking system.
3. Nations existed before central banking.
4. Taxes on most non-physical economic activity are avoidable with cryptocurrency.
4. Taxes on real estate holdings and physical resources (e.g. control of water sources, oil/natural gas sources, natural harbors, borders, physical imports, etc.) remain unavoidable despite the use of cryptocurrency.

Then

1. Governmental bodies that derive their revenue based on taxing unavoidable economic activity such  as real estate and physical imports will still be viable despite the advent of cryptocurrency.
2. The post central banking world will resemble the pre-central banking world (e.g. Roman Empire)  with differences based on modern technology (e.g. advanced communications and transportation networks)

Cryptocurrency should catalyze a global perestroika. The result should be a sort of neo-Classicism characterized by smaller, more local nation states based on control of physical resources by armed forces resembling the ancient world with significant differences due to technological advances. Thoughts?

[1714857429]

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[1714857429]

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[1714857429]

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[General_A]

If the following are true

1. Central banking is necessary for the continued existence of the welfare-megastate.
2. Crypto-currency will result in widespread tax evasion and opting out of the central banking system.
3. Nations existed before central banking.
4. Taxes on most non-physical economic activity are avoidable with cryptocurrency.
4. Taxes on real estate holdings and physical resources (e.g. control of water sources, oil/natural gas sources, natural harbors, borders, physical imports, etc.) remain unavoidable despite the use of cryptocurrency.

Then

1. Governmental bodies that derive their revenue based on taxing unavoidable economic activity such  as real estate and physical imports will still be viable despite the advent of cryptocurrency.
2. The post central banking world will resemble the pre-central banking world (e.g. Roman Empire)  with differences based on modern technology (e.g. advanced communications and transportation networks)

Cryptocurrency should catalyze a global perestroika. The result should be a sort of neo-Classicism characterized by smaller, more local nation states based on control of physical resources by armed forces resembling the ancient world with significant differences due to technological advances. Thoughts?

My thoughts exactly. Actually without the fiat system that people spend time bashing we would all probably be a lot less better off, with less social mobility and less representation in parliament. We would go back to a world were capital rules all and only a few would have access to that capital. I think its actually a scary future....

[username18333]

If “they” can tax it, they can outright steal it. So, are “they” going to merely rollover and accept one's opting-out of their debt- and wage-slavery?

[username18333]

. . .

My thoughts exactly. Actually without the fiat system that people spend time bashing we would all probably be a lot less better off, with less social mobility and less representation in parliament. We would go back to a world were capital rules all and only a few would have access to that capital. I think its actually a scary future....

Most you reference have debt, not capital, for they own neither “their” land, “their” home, nor “their” car but merely pay for the privilege of accessing them (and all that despite the goods’ laying idle in most instances).

[jehst]

If “they” can tax it, they can outright steal it. So, are “they” going to merely rollover and accept one's opting-out of their debt- and wage-slavery?

Sure, governments can take over physical resources like land, ports, and oil and use that to pay their thugs who will in turn keep citizens in check. But the government won't know how much people are earning from non-obvious service-based economic activity, which is the majority of economic activity in a country. This is all in line with neo-Classicism. You still have governments in control of territories, but their role will be different. Yes, government will still tax farmers based on how much land the farmer is farming on. You can't escape that. And if you own land, you'll be in danger of having it confiscated. So skilled, moneyed people will rent everything and live well below their means. Think about medieval Jews.

[username18333]

If “they” can tax it, they can outright steal it. So, are “they” going to merely rollover and accept one's opting-out of their debt- and wage-slavery?

Sure, governments can take over physical resources like land, ports, and oil and use that to pay their thugs who will in turn keep citizens in check. But the government won't know how much people are earning from non-obvious service-based economic activity, which is the majority of economic activity in a country. This is all in line with neo-Classicism. You still have governments in control of territories, but their role will be different. Yes, government will still tax farmers based on how much land the farmer is farming on. You can't escape that. And if you own land, you'll be in danger of having it confiscated. So skilled, moneyed people will rent everything and live well below their means. Think about medieval Jews.

Nationalism in hand, Hitler succeeded in capturing many that could have eluded him otherwise.

[jehst]

If “they” can tax it, they can outright steal it. So, are “they” going to merely rollover and accept one's opting-out of their debt- and wage-slavery?

Sure, governments can take over physical resources like land, ports, and oil and use that to pay their thugs who will in turn keep citizens in check. But the government won't know how much people are earning from non-obvious service-based economic activity, which is the majority of economic activity in a country. This is all in line with neo-Classicism. You still have governments in control of territories, but their role will be different. Yes, government will still tax farmers based on how much land the farmer is farming on. You can't escape that. And if you own land, you'll be in danger of having it confiscated. So skilled, moneyed people will rent everything and live well below their means. Think about medieval Jews.

Nationalism in hand, Hitler succeeded in capturing many that could have eluded him otherwise.

Go on.

[twiifm]

What the hell is crypto anarchism?  The combination of words don't even make sense.  Neither are economic systems. 

[jehst]

What the hell is crypto anarchism?  The combination of words don't even make sense.  Neither are economic systems. 

The Crypto Anarchist Manifesto

Timothy C. May <tcmay@netcom.com>
A specter is haunting the modern world, the specter of crypto anarchy.

Computer technology is on the verge of providing the ability for individuals and groups to communicate and interact with each other in a totally anonymous manner. Two persons may exchange messages, conduct business, and negotiate electronic contracts without ever knowing the True Name, or legal identity, of the other. Interactions over networks will be untraceable, via extensive re- routing of encrypted packets and tamper-proof boxes which implement cryptographic protocols with nearly perfect assurance against any tampering. Reputations will be of central importance, far more important in dealings than even the credit ratings of today. These developments will alter completely the nature of government regulation, the ability to tax and control economic interactions, the ability to keep information secret, and will even alter the nature of trust and reputation.

The technology for this revolution--and it surely will be both a social and economic revolution--has existed in theory for the past decade. The methods are based upon public-key encryption, zero-knowledge interactive proof systems, and various software protocols for interaction, authentication, and verification. The focus has until now been on academic conferences in Europe and the U.S., conferences monitored closely by the National Security Agency. But only recently have computer networks and personal computers attained sufficient speed to make the ideas practically realizable. And the next ten years will bring enough additional speed to make the ideas economically feasible and essentially unstoppable. High-speed networks, ISDN, tamper-proof boxes, smart cards, satellites, Ku-band transmitters, multi-MIPS personal computers, and encryption chips now under development will be some of the enabling technologies.

The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this technology, citing national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders, and fears of societal disintegration. Many of these concerns will be valid; crypto anarchy will allow national secrets to be trade freely and will allow illicit and stolen materials to be traded. An anonymous computerized market will even make possible abhorrent markets for assassinations and extortion. Various criminal and foreign elements will be active users of CryptoNet. But this will not halt the spread of crypto anarchy.

Just as the technology of printing altered and reduced the power of medieval guilds and the social power structure, so too will cryptologic methods fundamentally alter the nature of corporations and of government interference in economic transactions. Combined with emerging information markets, crypto anarchy will create a liquid market for any and all material which can be put into words and pictures. And just as a seemingly minor invention like barbed wire made possible the fencing-off of vast ranches and farms, thus altering forever the concepts of land and property rights in the frontier West, so too will the seemingly minor discovery out of an arcane branch of mathematics come to be the wire clippers which dismantle the barbed wire around intellectual property.

Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism

[twiifm]

What the hell is crypto anarchism?  The combination of words don't even make sense.  Neither are economic systems.  

The Crypto Anarchist Manifesto

Timothy C. May <tcmay@netcom.com>
A specter is haunting the modern world, the specter of crypto anarchy.

Computer technology is on the verge of providing the ability for individuals and groups to communicate and interact with each other in a totally anonymous manner. Two persons may exchange messages, conduct business, and negotiate electronic contracts without ever knowing the True Name, or legal identity, of the other. Interactions over networks will be untraceable, via extensive re- routing of encrypted packets and tamper-proof boxes which implement cryptographic protocols with nearly perfect assurance against any tampering. Reputations will be of central importance, far more important in dealings than even the credit ratings of today. These developments will alter completely the nature of government regulation, the ability to tax and control economic interactions, the ability to keep information secret, and will even alter the nature of trust and reputation.

The technology for this revolution--and it surely will be both a social and economic revolution--has existed in theory for the past decade. The methods are based upon public-key encryption, zero-knowledge interactive proof systems, and various software protocols for interaction, authentication, and verification. The focus has until now been on academic conferences in Europe and the U.S., conferences monitored closely by the National Security Agency. But only recently have computer networks and personal computers attained sufficient speed to make the ideas practically realizable. And the next ten years will bring enough additional speed to make the ideas economically feasible and essentially unstoppable. High-speed networks, ISDN, tamper-proof boxes, smart cards, satellites, Ku-band transmitters, multi-MIPS personal computers, and encryption chips now under development will be some of the enabling technologies.

The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this technology, citing national security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders, and fears of societal disintegration. Many of these concerns will be valid; crypto anarchy will allow national secrets to be trade freely and will allow illicit and stolen materials to be traded. An anonymous computerized market will even make possible abhorrent markets for assassinations and extortion. Various criminal and foreign elements will be active users of CryptoNet. But this will not halt the spread of crypto anarchy.

Just as the technology of printing altered and reduced the power of medieval guilds and the social power structure, so too will cryptologic methods fundamentally alter the nature of corporations and of government interference in economic transactions. Combined with emerging information markets, crypto anarchy will create a liquid market for any and all material which can be put into words and pictures. And just as a seemingly minor invention like barbed wire made possible the fencing-off of vast ranches and farms, thus altering forever the concepts of land and property rights in the frontier West, so too will the seemingly minor discovery out of an arcane branch of mathematics come to be the wire clippers which dismantle the barbed wire around intellectual property.

Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-anarchism

Stupidest thing I ever read.  So its like a secret handshake society for criminals and tax dodgers.  Hardly a system.

How is this even Anarchism when the state still exist in this world?

[jehst]

How is this even Anarchism when the state still exist in this world?

According to him:
"These developments will alter completely the nature of government regulation, the ability to tax and control economic interactions, the ability to keep information secret, and will even alter the nature of trust and reputation."

According to me:
"Bitcoin will not usher in crypto-anarchism, but rather neo-Classicisism"

[twiifm]

How is this even Anarchism when the state still exist in this world?

According to him:
"These developments will alter completely the nature of government regulation, the ability to tax and control economic interactions, the ability to keep information secret, and will even alter the nature of trust and reputation."

According to me:
"Bitcoin will not usher in crypto-anarchism, but rather neo-Classicisism"

I wouldnt call that neo classical.  Sounds more like Feudalism.

Neo Classical isn't a system its more a school of econ based on ideas of rational preference and utility maximization

[jehst]

How is this even Anarchism when the state still exist in this world?

According to him:
"These developments will alter completely the nature of government regulation, the ability to tax and control economic interactions, the ability to keep information secret, and will even alter the nature of trust and reputation."

According to me:
"Bitcoin will not usher in crypto-anarchism, but rather neo-Classicisism"

I wouldnt call that neo classical.  Sounds more like Feudalism.

Neo Classical isn't a system its more a school of econ based on ideas of rational preference and utility maximization

I am not talking about Classical Economics, which is totally separate as you've pointed out. What I am talking about when I say neo-classicism is Greek and Roman-style economic systems sans slavery.

Feudalism doesn't fit in with the modern world because feudal lords controlled all important economic resources (mainly agricultural resources) through underlings. Today, we have a knowledge-based economy. Feudalism doesn't apply. Anyone can study and acquire knowledge and then create their own thing like Zuckerberg or anyone else.

In the Roman Empire, you had Egypt and Judea, and they basically paid grain and gold to Rome in exchange for military defense. You paid your tribute and then you get left alone in relative peace. The Chinese dynasties did this as well. They controlled the water, raised armies, and you had to pay your rice.

So I think in a post-central banking world where you can't just tax people and sell unborn people into debt slavery through creating money, you need to go back to this sort of tribute-based economy. You don't have unlimited money to pay for a welfare state or an army of IRS agents who can't really figure out who is getting paid what. You have to go back to taxing stuff that you can see. No personal income tax. Taxes on large landholdings, farms, apartment buildings, airports, water ports, oil refineries, etc. and those mega-capitalists pass on those taxes to everyone else in the form of higher prices.

So what should I call it? Neo-tributary systems?