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Author Topic: Reducing the wealth concentration of Bitcoin  (Read 6666 times)
Spekulatius
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June 25, 2012, 11:45:48 PM
 #41

*not* agreed at all! ok … partially agreed. If we had a monopoly, I would love to have order settlement once per 24h or once per week. Why should the price change faster than I can settle a purchase? As we will never have a monopoly, people will put their money where they can react in case of significant news and therefore the exchanges would only stop 24/7 upon being regulated.

(Actually a pause in price-making would definitely not increase stability as users would get nervous against that deadline on Friday. Also the exchanges would need extra capacities for the unnatural activity spikes.)

If the exchanges become regulated, which they should, the regulations will mandate equal protection for buyers and sellers.  This may mean that trading cannot occur during periods of time when only one group of participants can deposit and withdraw, and the other group cannot.  In other words, unless banks are open 24/7 bitcoin cannot trade 24/7.



You are not making sense there.
- First of all, we are talking FOREX here, can you think of any established FOREX that closes on the weekend?
  I cant.
- Secondly, since there will never be equal preconditions for all traders globally, as long as banks close at night and the world keeps
  turning, there will always be night time on at least half of the globe, we could not trade at all.
- Thridly, you better stop posting for a while before you have risked your neck with careless talk and loose BFL as a customer (for talking
  about sales numbers) and because they wont get back their funds in full at this exchange rate, unless you have already paid them in
  full USD and go bankrupt yourself for stuffing up the rate. But at least you can make a quick buck yourself while you are at it. You may
  even get a better bargain then 6.00 $ Wink
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June 25, 2012, 11:52:41 PM
 #42

*not* agreed at all! ok … partially agreed. If we had a monopoly, I would love to have order settlement once per 24h or once per week. Why should the price change faster than I can settle a purchase? As we will never have a monopoly, people will put their money where they can react in case of significant news and therefore the exchanges would only stop 24/7 upon being regulated.

(Actually a pause in price-making would definitely not increase stability as users would get nervous against that deadline on Friday. Also the exchanges would need extra capacities for the unnatural activity spikes.)

If the exchanges become regulated, which they should, the regulations will mandate equal protection for buyers and sellers.  This may mean that trading cannot occur during periods of time when only one group of participants can deposit and withdraw, and the other group cannot.  In other words, unless banks are open 24/7 bitcoin cannot trade 24/7.


I believe that regulation is quite arbitrary.  Since you can 'pre-position' any amount of currency at an exchange, and even set orders via robot there seems to be no reason to restrict trading to times when you can deposit.  Especially since deposits are not instant nor are they predictable (at the biggest exchange) when they will show up. 

I would hate to see regulation dictate trading times, that is one of bitcoins greatest strengths. 

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June 26, 2012, 12:10:16 AM
 #43

I love this, you can only buy miners with BTC and bankwire, so everyone gives Bitcoin away, BFL sells it all pushing down the price and forcing GPU miners out of the market, then 8 months later the difficulty increases exponentially as they "test" their ASIC on Inaba's pool, then they release it first to GigaVPS, who hypes up how "awesome" it is and single handedly mines a huge portion of the 3100btc/day till the next difficulty readjustment.

Then everyone after two weeks more who gets their devices finds their ROI is about 10 years. GG.

Very wise. I agree with this 100%. People don't have any idea what they are getting themselves into now.

Better buy BTC than buy BFL mining gear.

If BTC goes kaboom then both will be WORTHLESS. Nobody needs double SHA256 ASIC crap.

But the difference is : buying BTC outright you have much more chance to make a huge $$$ when drop comes in Dec and BTC prices rise like mad.

But disregard me, I can't wait to see the SHEEP get burned again, again and yet again !

what if you are a world bank? guess now would be a good time to consider mining Wink
(aka not all are only interested in max. ROI based on hardware/electricity costs and exchange rates.)




BitPay Business Solutions
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June 26, 2012, 12:12:14 AM
 #44

FOREX markets are closed from Friday night until Sunday night.  

So are COMEX/GLOBEX markets for commodities.

Equity markets and options markets are open even shorter periods of time.

Now you may be able to buy and sell forex and gold in an aftermarket on the weekends, but the price is locked to the closing price from friday afternoon.

This is all done for a reason to protect market participants and create as level of a playing field as possible.  





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June 26, 2012, 12:33:45 AM
 #45

Options would be good if they are done correctly.  They would provide a proper hedging mechanism to buy time to sell the coins in an efficient manner.

However, options contracts are only as good as the counterparty.

Markets are being very efficient today.  It's over the weekends where the bias is lopsided to the downside.  Sellers can add liquidity over the weekend, but buyers cannot!

It would actually be more stable for bitcoin if the markets would close for the weekend.   People are used to the 24/7 operation, but the fact is it puts downward pressure on the price if only one side of the trade can put up money.



Two questions. 1. Will you offer a discount for large buy orders? If so what is the discount.

2. Ever thought of creating a subsiduary of bitpay to offer options? Sounds like you have a big enough stake in the market to offer such things. This will boost your payments business being able to guarantee a certain payout at a small fee.

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June 26, 2012, 01:00:09 AM
 #46

FOREX markets are closed from Friday night until Sunday night.  

So are COMEX/GLOBEX markets for commodities.

Equity markets and options markets are open even shorter periods of time.

Now you may be able to buy and sell forex and gold in an aftermarket on the weekends, but the price is locked to the closing price from friday afternoon.

This is all done for a reason to protect market participants and create as level of a playing field as possible.  
That's why I've been advocating a decentralized statistically based price algorithm for Bitcoin. It can help stabilize price and give people a break. In my opinion there is way too much unregulated speculating. It won't control exchange rates, but will mitigate them. Once BTC becomes a major investment (and it will), BTC based securities will be as bad or worse than junk bonds. Their decentralized nature will let them spin out of control, Bitcoinica notwithstanding. Growth is great, but wild fluctuation is bad.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
BitPay Business Solutions
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June 26, 2012, 01:10:00 AM
 #47


Two questions. 1. Will you offer a discount for large buy orders? If so what is the discount.

2. Ever thought of creating a subsiduary of bitpay to offer options? Sounds like you have a big enough stake in the market to offer such things. This will boost your payments business being able to guarantee a certain payout at a small fee.

at this point, large orders actually put more stress on us than small ones.  We have a much more likely risk of losing money on large orders.  So unfortunately there isn't a discount.

I am very familiar with options trading and how they work.  I just wish someone else would do it.  we've got our hands full at the moment.

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Does your website accept bitcoins?
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June 26, 2012, 01:16:59 AM
 #48


Two questions. 1. Will you offer a discount for large buy orders? If so what is the discount.

2. Ever thought of creating a subsiduary of bitpay to offer options? Sounds like you have a big enough stake in the market to offer such things. This will boost your payments business being able to guarantee a certain payout at a small fee.

at this point, large orders actually put more stress on us than small ones.  We have a much more likely risk of losing money on large orders.  So unfortunately there isn't a discount.

I am very familiar with options trading and how they work.  I just wish someone else would do it.  we've got our hands full at the moment.

I think he's asking about buying up some of the bitcoins you're trying to sell.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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Spekulatius
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June 26, 2012, 01:44:37 AM
 #49

FOREX markets are closed from Friday night until Sunday night.  

So are COMEX/GLOBEX markets for commodities.

Equity markets and options markets are open even shorter periods of time.

Now you may be able to buy and sell forex and gold in an aftermarket on the weekends, but the price is locked to the closing price from friday afternoon.

This is all done for a reason to protect market participants and create as level of a playing field as possible.  

Ok I learned something new today about FOREX markets and stand corrected for my first bullet point.
Nevertheless my other two points are still true. (take point three as a friendly advise)

Quote
- Secondly, since there will never be equal preconditions for all traders globally, as long as banks close at night and the world keeps
  turning, there will always be night time on at least half of the globe, we could not trade at all.
- Thridly, you better stop posting for a while before you have risked your neck with careless talk and loose BFL as a customer (for talking
  about sales numbers) and because they wont get back their funds in full at this exchange rate, unless you have already paid them in
  full USD and go bankrupt yourself for stuffing up the rate. But at least you can make a quick buck yourself while you are at it. You may
  even get a better bargain then 6.00 $ Wink
RyNinDaCleM
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June 26, 2012, 02:00:44 AM
 #50


Two questions. 1. Will you offer a discount for large buy orders? If so what is the discount.

2. Ever thought of creating a subsiduary of bitpay to offer options? Sounds like you have a big enough stake in the market to offer such things. This will boost your payments business being able to guarantee a certain payout at a small fee.

at this point, large orders actually put more stress on us than small ones.  We have a much more likely risk of losing money on large orders.  So unfortunately there isn't a discount.

I am very familiar with options trading and how they work.  I just wish someone else would do it.  we've got our hands full at the moment.

I think he's asking about buying up some of the bitcoins you're trying to sell.

I think he is too! The risk is; If he sells 10k right now @$X.xx, and price goes up, he loses out on additional profits than, say, selling 5000 now and selling 5000BTC later, at a 10%+ premium. But this also works both ways.

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June 26, 2012, 06:43:07 AM
 #51


Two questions. 1. Will you offer a discount for large buy orders? If so what is the discount.

2. Ever thought of creating a subsiduary of bitpay to offer options? Sounds like you have a big enough stake in the market to offer such things. This will boost your payments business being able to guarantee a certain payout at a small fee.

at this point, large orders actually put more stress on us than small ones.  We have a much more likely risk of losing money on large orders.  So unfortunately there isn't a discount.

I am very familiar with options trading and how they work.  I just wish someone else would do it.  we've got our hands full at the moment.

Check out bitcoinOPX.com, they will gladly do it for you!
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June 26, 2012, 10:00:13 AM
 #52

It's more likely that as bitcoin grows, it will create a competitive pressure that will force our backwards financial services to open up at the weekend.

Why hack bitcoin's 24/7 facilities out just to fit in with the establishment.

Besides that; if it really is true that the weekend dips are a liquidity problem, then there is profit to be made by someone supplying liquidity for the weekend.  That problem will then solve itself.

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June 26, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
 #53

Quote
Equity markets and options markets are open even shorter periods of time.

This is not at all true for btc. Options markets are open 24/7.

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June 26, 2012, 07:46:19 PM
 #54

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitpay-shatters-record-for-bitcoin-payment-processing-2012-06-26

Wow! this BitPay deal made it into the news!
Which in itself might be worth the hassle.

I wish BitPay a success and hope they manage to liquidate their BTC stash efficiently.
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June 26, 2012, 07:47:51 PM
 #55

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitpay-shatters-record-for-bitcoin-payment-processing-2012-06-26

Wow! this BitPay deal made it into the news!
Which in itself might be worth the hassle.

I wish BitPay a success and hope they manage to liquidate their BTC stash efficiently.

>PRWeb

They paid to get into the "news". Same as BFL did, lol.

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interlagos
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June 26, 2012, 07:52:18 PM
 #56

Yeah I noticed that too...

By the way, maybe they should convince BFL to keep BTC and negotiate with fabs to pay for ASICs in BTC!
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June 26, 2012, 09:18:12 PM
 #57

Yeah I noticed that too...
If you did, why did you phrase your post in such a way that implied some kind of achievement? They paid money to get on the news; move along.

interlagos
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June 26, 2012, 11:41:21 PM
 #58

Yeah I noticed that too...
If you did, why did you phrase your post in such a way that implied some kind of achievement? They paid money to get on the news; move along.

Because I liked it, and I like to troll too! Smiley
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