Shrem to jail for two years!!! Holy shit!

[TKeenan]

The fed is crazy!  What the hell does Charlie have to go to jail for two years for?  If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&ved=0CB0QqQIoADAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2F2014%2F12%2F19%2Fus-usa-crime-bitcoin-idUSKBN0JX2CW20141219&ei=rMWUVKLpNMOqgwSH7oP4BA&usg=AFQjCNGY-k3vxmX8GQZn6B79VyKyv0NvOw&sig2=7Y12SnWRSVOzXtIXhUwGJg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.eXY

Everyone should prepare some care packages and send them to the jail.  He could use a little sympathy from the community.

[1713979650]

1713979650

[1713979650]

1713979650

[1713979650]

1713979650

[1713979650]

1713979650

[g27wr]

Don't they have to prove intent? Did he actually know of the connection with Silk Road?

[MicroGuy]

The fed is crazy!  What the hell does Charlie have to go to jail for two years for?  If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!

Thanks for the head's up! I'll make sure not to conspire with drug dealers to launder cash. lol

[franky1]

so if this was about drugs....

then shrems 2 year sentance means that BTCKING will be expecting a bigger punishment.. seeing as BTCKing is one step closer to the drug crime. and on that presumption ross ulbricht should be expecting an even bigger jail sentence then both shrem and btcking...

so lets see how the other 2 get sentenced in January and see if this is about drugs or about the fact that government didnt get a nice slice of money from any of the transfers as either licence fee's or taxes..

if ubricht gets a lesser sentance.. or btcking.. then shrem should appeal his sentancing as it does not fall into line that a lesser crime compared to the other two deserves a bigger punnishment.

[TKeenan]

if ubricht gets a lesser sentance.. or btcking.. then shrem should appeal his sentancing as it does not fall into line that a lesser crime compared to the other two deserves a bigger punnishment.

Are you kidding?  Ulbricht is going to get no less than 20 years.  He is in a complete different position than Shrem.  Shrem was a little loose with the folks he chose as business partners and didn't care what they were engaged in.  

Ulbricht set up one of the biggest drug trading platforms known to man.  

Ol' Shremmy was a bit naughty - but not too much more.  Ross is a world class drug lord of epic proportions.  He could go to jail for life.  Size does matter.  Ross sold more drugs that nearly anyone in history.  Many poor suckers caught with a two pound bag of cocaine did 20 years.  Ross does no less than them - I am certain of that.

If that murder for hire stuff sticks - 100% he never sees light of day again.

[moriartybitcoin]

Shrem was an idiot for doing anything in the bitcoin world under his real name. Period. End of story.

Unless you are sucking the teat of big business, Uncle Sam is gonna get you if you start playing around with BTC with your real name.

Caveat Emptor!

[moriartybitcoin]

I mean c'mon folks, really?

This guy is a freaking MORON

He's processing payments (basically) for silk road drug dealers and doing this all under his REAL NAME ..

what the hell did he think would happen? 

[TheButterZone]

[rz20]

if ubricht gets a lesser sentance.. or btcking.. then shrem should appeal his sentancing as it does not fall into line that a lesser crime compared to the other two deserves a bigger punnishment.

Are you kidding?  Ulbricht is going to get no less than 20 years.  He is in a complete different position than Shrem.  Shrem was a little loose with the folks he chose as business partners and didn't care what they were engaged in.  

Ulbricht set up one of the biggest drug trading platforms known to man.  

Ol' Shremmy was a bit naughty - but not too much more.  Ross is a world class drug lord of epic proportions.  He could go to jail for life.  Size does matter.  Ross sold more drugs that nearly anyone in history.  Many poor suckers caught with a two pound bag of cocaine did 20 years.  Ross does no less than them - I am certain of that.

If that murder for hire stuff sticks - 100% he never sees light of day again.

I think the same sa you, Ulbricht is going to be sentenced to almost all his entire life in prison.

[IamCANADIAN013]

The fed is crazy!  What the hell does Charlie have to go to jail for two years for?  If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!

Thanks for the head's up! I'll make sure not to conspire with drug dealers to launder cash. lol

Make sure not to use your real name either, LOL!  What did Shrem think would happen?  He really isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.  

As for the OP:

The whole "If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!" works with every type of currency, why would bitcoin be any different?  Also, he has to go to jail because he laundered money. He knew exactly what he as doing.  Pretty straight forward if you ask me.

[TrailingComet]

Two years for him while all those banking exec douchebags who helped facilitate money laundering on an industrial scale got off with fines. Crazy world.

[cakir]

Well, if he has helped silk road & money laundering he has to go to jail.

He's making bad impression on Bitcoin!

Well, you can use USD on silk road & money laundering etc but no one blames federal reserve right? But "bitcoin" is not well known so it's thinked to be evil...

[jonald_fyookball]

Two years for him while all those banking exec douchebags who helped facilitate money laundering on an industrial scale got off with fines. Crazy world.

No, they get off scott free.

The bank has to pay the fines and maybe the shareholders get 5-10% less dividends that quarter.  
I guess it is kind of crazy, but then again, the elite have always enjoyed exclusive privileges.

[Robert Paulson]

[tvbcof]

Damn.  I predicted that Shrem would never go to jail.  This prediction was based in part on my guess that he'd cooperate fully and help glue some pieces together from Bitcoin's early times and that Krapholes was the main target.  Another part was that what Shrem did was simply not all that big a deal and for not all that much money (so far as I know from mainstream reports.)

I hate to be wrong.  I'll modify my prediction to be that if he does do any 'time' it will be one of those deals where he get's to check in on weekends or whatever.  I should just retract my prediction, but I'm stubborn like that.

[theymos]

That's terrible news. He didn't do anything ethically wrong.

Throughout all this, I've been wondering how much he was actually complicit in the Silk Road stuff. Apparently he knew that btcking had something to do with the Silk Road, but was it just a bit of passing knowledge, or was he actually very purposefully trying to help btcking with money laundering? I'd feel better if it was the latter, since at least he'd have known the risks ahead of time.

[bitcoin_bagholder]

Damn.  I predicted that Shrem would never go to jail.  This prediction was based in part on my guess that he'd cooperate fully and help glue some pieces together from Bitcoin's early times and that Krapholes was the main target.  Another part was that what Shrem did was simply not all that big a deal and for not all that much money (so far as I know from mainstream reports.)

I hate to be wrong.  I'll modify my prediction to be that if he does do any 'time' it will be one of those deals where he get's to check in on weekends or whatever.  I should just retract my prediction, but I'm stubborn like that.

Pretty sure Charlie knew he'd be doing time while awaiting sentencing.

Doubt the weekend gig is for two year sentences. He'd be a weekender for about eight years.

[BitCoinNutJob]

Don't they have to prove intent? Did he actually know of the connection with Silk Road?

They just do whatever they want, the main goal of this was to send out a signal to others. 

Doesnt make much sense putting him in prison though, they should have just given him 2 years home arrest or something if anything.

[Searing]

Don't they have to prove intent? Did he actually know of the connection with Silk Road?

They just do whatever they want, the main goal of this was to send out a signal to others. 

Doesnt make much sense putting him in prison though, they should have just given him 2 years home arrest or something if anything.

Heh ...2 years in the USA he will be out in 6 months on good behavior etc....most he will serve imho is 1 year...the rest
will be like 5 years probation or some such

[Foxpup]

That's terrible news. He didn't do anything ethically wrong.

He was BitInstant's AML compliance officer. By taking the job, he accepted a duty to report money laundering and ensure his company was complying with all relevant laws. The moment this duty conflicted with his own sense of ethics, he should have quit. Whether money laundering is ethical is beside the point, since he voluntarily agreed to enforce the laws (and the money laundering charge was dropped anyway).

Throughout all this, I've been wondering how much he was actually complicit in the Silk Road stuff. Apparently he knew that btcking had something to do with the Silk Road, but was it just a bit of passing knowledge, or was he actually very purposefully trying to help btcking with money laundering? I'd feel better if it was the latter, since at least he'd have known the risks ahead of time.

It was the latter. Not only that, he used his position in the company to prevent btcking's transactions from being flagged as suspicious, and hide those transactions from the BitInstant's founder, Gareth Nelson. He abused his power in a blatantly illegal and unethical way, that's all there is to it.

[ab8989]

Two years for him while all those banking exec douchebags who helped facilitate money laundering on an industrial scale got off with fines. Crazy world.

By the way  .... Are you in favour of collective punishment for helping facilitate something?

be very careful what you wish for.

[exoton]

That's terrible news. He didn't do anything ethically wrong.

Throughout all this, I've been wondering how much he was actually complicit in the Silk Road stuff. Apparently he knew that btcking had something to do with the Silk Road, but was it just a bit of passing knowledge, or was he actually very purposefully trying to help btcking with money laundering? I'd feel better if it was the latter, since at least he'd have known the risks ahead of time.

The evidence presented by the government is unclear as to how much Charlie knew about BTCking's involvement in Silk road, although it seems to be pretty clear that he knew he was doing some kind of money laundering as he was telling his business partner that he was banning him from using his services while privately telling him to how circumvent his internal controls that were suppose to prevent him from being able to use his services.

[tokeweed]

and how much jail time did those execs do who were responsible for the 2008 global financial crisis?

NONE.

mother fuckers.

[Robert Paulson]

this is bullshit.
two years in jail for a crime with no victim.
the only criminal in this trial is the American government.

[Come-from-Beyond]

the only criminal in this trial is the American government.

You are stating an obvious fact, my friend. America killed a lot of innocent people and keep doing it every day (for democracy). Charlie should thank God that he got just 2 years instead of death penalty...

[Bitcoins101]

The streets are now safe. Thank you government for protecting us.

 

[franky1]

if ubricht gets a lesser sentance.. or btcking.. then shrem should appeal his sentancing as it does not fall into line that a lesser crime compared to the other two deserves a bigger punnishment.

Are you kidding?  Ulbricht is going to get no less than 20 years.  He is in a complete different position than Shrem.  Shrem was a little loose with the folks he chose as business partners and didn't care what they were engaged in.  

Ulbricht set up one of the biggest drug trading platforms known to man.  

Ol' Shremmy was a bit naughty - but not too much more.  Ross is a world class drug lord of epic proportions.  He could go to jail for life.  Size does matter.  Ross sold more drugs that nearly anyone in history.  Many poor suckers caught with a two pound bag of cocaine did 20 years.  Ross does no less than them - I am certain of that.

If that murder for hire stuff sticks - 100% he never sees light of day again.

I think the same sa you, Ulbricht is going to be sentenced to almost all his entire life in prison.

i understand that ulbrichts crimes are on a mega high scale in comparison to shrems. and if u read my post you will see that i have categorised btckings ventures as being more criminal than shrems and then ulbrichts as being higher again..

my point being is that if by that small 0.01% chance that ulbricht gets a light sentance or no sentance due to evidence being thrown out or some legal loop hole he tries. then shrem should get a lighter sentance than whatever btcking or ulbricht gets.. thats all im saying

[LiteCoinGuy]

in the meantime:

[bitcoinmining]

This is impressive sentence from Thomas Jefferson; but it doesn't belong to this thread. Or do you plan any resistance about it?

[Chavez]

Don't they have to prove intent? Did he actually know of the connection with Silk Road?

This is the Americans for you.

Proof not needed.



~BCX~

Didn't he plead guilty? I think they had him pretty much screwed anyway. The law is going to come after you if you're tied to this sort of stuff sadly.

[JuanHungLo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hjf4i3DY0&feature=youtu.be&a

I really like what Luke R. has to say about because it is bitcoin, instead of the dollar, a message has to be sent.  It's not like HBSC got anything other than a slap on the wrist fine...twice!

[TKeenan]

Damn.  I predicted that Shrem would never go to jail.  This prediction was based in part on my guess that he'd cooperate fully and help glue some pieces together from Bitcoin's early times and that Krapholes was the main target.  Another part was that what Shrem did was simply not all that big a deal and for not all that much money (so far as I know from mainstream reports.)

I hate to be wrong.  I'll modify my prediction to be that if he does do any 'time' it will be one of those deals where he get's to check in on weekends or whatever.  I should just retract my prediction, but I'm stubborn like that.

Hilarious!!  You can sure tell you are French!!

'Never go to jail'
In France, you can nearly get away with murder.  In fact, you actually have to go to jail 'for life' (7 years).  That's right, a 'life' sentence is 7 years.  For little things like embezzling and money laundering - France doesn't do much more than say 'naughty boy' - and then set you free.  Which is why this guy expects Shrem not to go to jail.  In the US, cleaning money for major drug operations is a big crime and you've got to go to big jail.


"what Shrem did was simply not all that big a deal "
Like I said, in Europe money laundering is pretty common and not a big deal.  Everyone does it.

"if he does do any 'time' it will be one of those deals where he get's to check in on weekends or whatever."
Not even.  This is the Fed we are talking about.  They don't even have parole.  He is behind bars ALREADY.  Sometimes a judge will give you 7 days to put your affairs in order, but most times they take you 5 seconds after the sentence is read.  Think about that: Shrem spent last night is a cold small cement cell with a stainless steel toilet next to his head and a large black 'roommate'.

Life is easy in France my friend.  Get away with murder and they are serving croissants in jail with a nice view (actually Monaco has the very nice view from jail).  

[TKeenan]

Heh ...2 years in the USA he will be out in 6 months on good behavior etc....most he will serve imho is 1 year...the rest
will be like 5 years probation or some such

Nope - the Fed doesn't have a program for reduced sentences.  You get what you get.  You don't get out early.  That is from state prisons. 

[HELP.org]

That's terrible news. He didn't do anything ethically wrong.

Throughout all this, I've been wondering how much he was actually complicit in the Silk Road stuff. Apparently he knew that btcking had something to do with the Silk Road, but was it just a bit of passing knowledge, or was he actually very purposefully trying to help btcking with money laundering? I'd feel better if it was the latter, since at least he'd have known the risks ahead of time.

Your "ethically wrong" argument is for Internet discussion boards and it holds no weight in the real world and is obviously wrong.  While the system is abused the laws were put in place to stop things like terrorism, human trafficking, etc.  The laws were put in place for an ethical purpose and they sometime work.  People want these laws because they sometimes do work and people feel it protects their security.  You can try to point to abuses and claim the whole system should stop and claim it is "morally wrong" but they are going to point to you and say allowing terrorism and human trafficking is morally wrong.  in any case the laws are in place and it doesn't matter what you think.

As for Shrem, you can read the evidence.  It looked like some guy kept bugging him and he finally caved and did the transaction.  It was not an ongoing conspiracy and he had no record so I think he should have gotten probation.  Shrem admitted to knowing the guy was doing money transmission without a license and did the transaction anyway.

[Wonka]

Damn.  I predicted that Shrem would never go to jail.  This prediction was based in part on my guess that he'd cooperate fully and help glue some pieces together from Bitcoin's early times and that Krapholes was the main target.

He may have cooperated in some capacity to get a reduced sentence. Two years doesn't seem that bad and I would've thoughr they'd try make an example out of him.

[QuestionAuthority]

Wow, he's a very lucky kid with an obviously great legal team. His charges and sentence could have been much worse. It's too bad he couldn't have just listened to his inner voice and not done it. If you watch The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin you will see several times that he looks nervous and says something like, I need to make sure we're not breaking any laws, that we're compliant. Watch that movie with the knowledge of what he did and you will spot the fear in his behavior.

Franklin Jurado got 90 months for that crime. Willie Whitehurst was sentenced to 151 months. Anthony Foster was sentenced to 121 months. Brandon Royce Taylor was sentenced to 180 months. Thamous Eugene Taylor - 60 months. Cynthia Marquez - 120 months. One after another conspirators to money laundering get long sentences. 24 months is like a walk in the park compared to what could have been a healthy chunk of his life.

[Dogtanian]

Wow, he's a very lucky kid with an obviously great legal team. His charges and sentence could have been much worse. It's too bad he couldn't have just listened to his inner voice and not done it. If you watch The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin you will see several times that he looks nervous and says something like, I need to make sure we're not breaking any laws, that we're compliant. Watch that movie with the knowledge of what he did and you will spot the fear in his behavior.

I think it's very easy to get into trouble being an exchange or money transmitter when you're dealing with bitcoins. So many regulations and hoops you've got to jump through.

Franklin Jurado got 90 months for that crime. Willie Whitehurst was sentenced to 151 months. Anthony Foster was sentenced to 121 months. Brandon Royce Taylor was sentenced to 180 months. Thamous Eugene Taylor - 60 months. Cynthia Marquez - 120 months. One after another conspirators to money laundering get long sentences. 24 months is like a walk in the park compared to what could have been a healthy chunk of his life.

And the banks get away scott free.

[franky1]

I think it's very easy to get into trouble being an exchange or money transmitter when you're dealing with bitcoins. So many regulations and hoops you've got to jump through.

And the banks get away scott free.

there are NO bitcoin licences as of 2013-2014.. so that statement is incorrect. the problem is a bitcoin exchange that happens to touch FIAT.. by the act of swapping dollars for bitcoins means a fiat licence is required. and which then comes with rules of use for fiat. its not a fault of bitcoin that shrem now has 2 years.. its a fault of agreeing to FIAT regulations.. and then secretly avoiding them

[exoton]

Wow, he's a very lucky kid with an obviously great legal team. His charges and sentence could have been much worse. It's too bad he couldn't have just listened to his inner voice and not done it. If you watch The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin you will see several times that he looks nervous and says something like, I need to make sure we're not breaking any laws, that we're compliant. Watch that movie with the knowledge of what he did and you will spot the fear in his behavior.

Franklin Jurado got 90 months for that crime. Willie Whitehurst was sentenced to 151 months. Anthony Foster was sentenced to 121 months. Brandon Royce Taylor was sentenced to 180 months. Thamous Eugene Taylor - 60 months. Cynthia Marquez - 120 months. One after another conspirators to money laundering get long sentences. 24 months is like a walk in the park compared to what could have been a healthy chunk of his life.

I think he was essentially betting that law enforcement would not be able to take down silk road as this was where the majority of the evidence against him was found (I think there was also some evidence found on freedom hosting (?) servers that was hosting some kind of tor email service).

He was also putting a good amount of trust in DPR (n/k/a Ross - most likely) to periodically purge potentially incrementation information about SR's users (which Ross did not do - he actually backed it up in the US).

In theory, Charlie could have fought the collection of the evidence against him as being unconstitutional, however this would be somewhat of a long shot plus he was facing decades in jail if found guilty of all counts against him

[cakir]

Can some please explain why he even paid $1M? If the $1M moved through the BitInstant service, the fee was around 0.26% on that, so $2.6k. Even if Shrem charged 2%, that's only $20k in profits. How on earth can he be required to pay x50 of that *and* get jail time?

If he didn't cooperate with the government and didn't give the silkroader's id's, he deserves this kinda punishment.
If something is illegal and you do it then you got busted; you've to pay the price...

[tvbcof]

Can some please explain why he even paid $1M? If the $1M moved through the BitInstant service, the fee was around 0.26% on that, so $2.6k. Even if Shrem charged 2%, that's only $20k in profits. How on earth can he be required to pay x50 of that *and* get jail time?

If he didn't cooperate with the government and didn't give the silkroader's id's, he deserves this kinda punishment.
If something is illegal and you do it then you got busted; you've to pay the price...

If Shrem made only $20k from his BitInstant shenanigans he made a lot more elsewhere or is some sort of a trust-fundy or something.  $20k doesn't get one half a nightclub and cigars to chomp on while calling the female groupies 'toots' or whatever.  (What a child!)  He probably made a bundle just stacking Bitcoin.  Doesn't mean that it would be appropriate ethically for the govt to snake it, but I think everyone recognizes that he willingly stuck his head into the alligator's mouth.  Nobody knows what the govt left him with so it's hard to infer anything one way or another about how cooperative he was.  It seems possible at this point that the govt didn't really need his info after all except as a nicety to cross-check other results.  Besides, Shrem was not the only guy with good access to info from BitInstant.

[exoton]

Can some please explain why he even paid $1M? If the $1M moved through the BitInstant service, the fee was around 0.26% on that, so $2.6k. Even if Shrem charged 2%, that's only $20k in profits. How on earth can he be required to pay x50 of that *and* get jail time?

If he didn't cooperate with the government and didn't give the silkroader's id's, he deserves this kinda punishment.
If something is illegal and you do it then you got busted; you've to pay the price...

The government alleged that he made more then he really did. I am not 100% sure on their logic, but it may potentially be that all of his proceeds is "profit" even though he needed to give his customers bitcoin. It is my understanding that the total trade volume was ~$1 million.

It is my understanding that he had to pay most of the fine from his own personal funds

[The Chainmaker]

1. He will get out early.

2. While prison sucks, if you are rich, it isn't completely terrible.  Yes it sucks, but a year is doable.

3. I don't think he did anything wrong, but he knew very well that what he was doing might land him in jail. He even talks a little about it in "The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin". He knew it was wrong in the eyes of the government  even if what he was doing wasn't wrong in our eyes.  He rolled the dice.  He lost. 

[juju]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

[gamerholicdotcom]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

I thought stuff with btc cant be illegal cuz its not real currency

[xDan]

2 years, could have been worse. He's still rich as fugg, right?

They don't even have parole.  He is behind bars ALREADY.  Sometimes a judge will give you 7 days to put your affairs in order, but most times they take you 5 seconds after the sentence is read.  Think about that: Shrem spent last night is a cold small cement cell with a stainless steel toilet next to his head and a large black 'roommate'.

He has 90 days to surrender. Still tweeting.

[exoton]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

I don't think people will be discouraged from starting a bitcoin related business because of this. It was mentioned previously that Charlie agreed to follow the AML rules and ended up not doing so.

I think it is pretty clear that Charlie broke the law....the real question is should the law be in it's place in the first place, and is the punishment (according to the law) an appropriate punishment?

[TKeenan]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

I thought stuff with btc cant be illegal cuz its not real currency

You got it right.  Since it is not 'real', you are allow to use it for murder, drugs, rape, extortion.  All those laws are out the door because they only count for 'real' money.  Awesome!: a world with no laws, simply because someone declared bitcoin is not 'real'. 

Good thinking buddy. 

[TKeenan]

2 years, could have been worse. He's still rich as fugg, right?

They don't even have parole.  He is behind bars ALREADY.  Sometimes a judge will give you 7 days to put your affairs in order, but most times they take you 5 seconds after the sentence is read.  Think about that: Shrem spent last night is a cold small cement cell with a stainless steel toilet next to his head and a large black 'roommate'.

He has 90 days to surrender. Still tweeting.

yeah, saw that.  Judge gave him a break and let him get his shit together before reporting. 

I doubt we'll see guys taking it casually when they decide to ignore money laundering laws in the future.  Two years in the Fed Pen is not a cakewalk. Felon for life.  Not a good place to get for a few bucks.

[Bit_Happy]

"Rakoff said Shrem, 25, was not "some kid making a one-time mistake," but someone who "excitedly" participated in a novel crime involving bitcoins that contributed to drugs sales."

Bah, back then he was 'just a kid', this is sad to see.

[leopard2]

This is nuts. another political prisoner.

With the exact same logic, every bank employee, credit card company employee, or anyone working for an institution operating an ATM - in short, everyone exchanging cash for balance, could be put into prison.

Because their customers could use the cash or the balance for something illegal.

Shrem was not even doing it directly: BTCKing was like an operator of an ATM, and Shrem the armored car company that fills/empties the ATM. Some customers drawing cash from the ATM were breaking the law, and the guy driving the armored car gets fucked.

Blatant abuse of power by the government!  

[moriartybitcoin]

the government is sending a message to bitcoiners; stay out of the game unless you're backed by silicon valley

[exoton]

2 years, could have been worse. He's still rich as fugg, right?

They don't even have parole.  He is behind bars ALREADY.  Sometimes a judge will give you 7 days to put your affairs in order, but most times they take you 5 seconds after the sentence is read.  Think about that: Shrem spent last night is a cold small cement cell with a stainless steel toilet next to his head and a large black 'roommate'.

He has 90 days to surrender. Still tweeting.

yeah, saw that.  Judge gave him a break and let him get his shit together before reporting. 

I doubt we'll see guys taking it casually when they decide to ignore money laundering laws in the future.  Two years in the Fed Pen is not a cakewalk. Felon for life.  Not a good place to get for a few bucks.

even though he is a "felon", it is my understanding that he still has a job lined up (or is currently working - not sure which). With few exceptions, companies are not barred from hiring felons and Charlie has a lot of experience managing a business and a lot of experience in bitcoin that he should not have trouble finding work

[Meuh6879]

or ... do bitcoin business in paradise island.
well ... like all "wall street bonus"  

[stevenh512]

ross ulbricht should be expecting an even bigger jail sentence then both shrem and btcking...

Under current Federal mandatory minimum sentencing rules, Ross will most likely be serving life in prison as a drug kingpin if he's convicted.

Shrem was an idiot for doing anything in the bitcoin illegal drug trafficking world under his real name. Period. End of story.

Corrected that for you. This sentence is due to Shrem's involvement in laundering money for drug dealers, not what "kind" of money he helped them launder. I'm honestly surprised he didn't get more than 2 years since he supposedly knew what he was doing. While I'm personally against the war on drugs and I don't think the government has any business protecting us from our own choices, unfortunately that's the law as it stands now.

Two years for him while all those banking exec douchebags who helped facilitate money laundering on an industrial scale got off with fines. Crazy world.

Agreed. If we're going to enforce these idiotic laws that punish victimless "crimes" then someone at HSBC should be in prison right now. There is a difference, though, since a corporation like HSBC can't technically be arrested and it's difficult to find the individuals actually responsible for the money laundering, it makes sense that they were punished with a fine instead. But personally, I think if we're going to enforce drug and money laundering laws, their fine should have been a lot bigger (at least in the hundreds of millions for the almost 1 billion dollars they admitted to laundering) and their banking license should have been suspended or revoked. Especially considering that they laundered money for violent drug cartels who are responsible for thousands of murders.

Then again, part of the reason we continue to enforce pointless drug laws and waste taxpayer money putting people in prison for victimless crimes is to protect those murderous cartels who have backroom deals with the DEA to keep themselves in business.

Heh ...2 years in the USA he will be out in 6 months on good behavior etc....most he will serve imho is 1 year...the rest
will be like 5 years probation or some such

Maybe if he were serving his time in a state prison, depending on the state. There is no "good behavior" time, probation or parole for Federal prisons. There is a clemency program, but these days that's more for show than anything else.

I really like what Luke R. has to say about because it is bitcoin, instead of the dollar, a message has to be sent.  It's not like HBSC got anything other than a slap on the wrist fine...twice!

More likely it's because it was an individual who could be easily prosecuted and not a major multinational corporation who can afford to buy politicians, prosecutors and judges. It could also have something to do with the fact that the major multinational corporation was working for a cartel who can afford tanks and fighter jets and has beckroom deals with the DEA to keep itself in business.

While I do disagree with the law, as it stands, 2 years is a pretty light sentence for someone in Shrem's position and if he had taken it to trial and been convicted he'd probably be facing a lot more time.

[solitude]

The nose knows.

I watch "Rise and rise of Bitcoin" and listen to Charlie saying "I don't wanna go to jail" for some keks.

Greedy jew got off easy if you ask me.

[botany]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

It should discourage people from creating illegal businesses, not businesses with Bitcoin.

[fathur01]

His jail sentence was so exaggerated.. Nothing for HSBC criminals...

[RocketSingh]

The fed is crazy!  What the hell does Charlie have to go to jail for two years for?  If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=1&ved=0CB0QqQIoADAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2F2014%2F12%2F19%2Fus-usa-crime-bitcoin-idUSKBN0JX2CW20141219&ei=rMWUVKLpNMOqgwSH7oP4BA&usg=AFQjCNGY-k3vxmX8GQZn6B79VyKyv0NvOw&sig2=7Y12SnWRSVOzXtIXhUwGJg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.eXY

Everyone should prepare some care packages and send them to the jail.  He could use a little sympathy from the community.

I sensed a problem when the court forced him to plead guilty in the hope of decreasing jail term. Does anyone know what evidence have they shown against him ?

[caga]

The nose knows.

I watch "Rise and rise of Bitcoin" and listen to Charlie saying "I don't wanna go to jail" for some keks.

Greedy jew got off easy if you ask me.

Still confused. Thats where I heard about him the first time as well, and they said he was under house arrest.
Is this jail thing for 2 years, a new thing come up?

[548845]

The nose knows.

I watch "Rise and rise of Bitcoin" and listen to Charlie saying "I don't wanna go to jail" for some keks.

Greedy jew got off easy if you ask me.

Still confused. Thats where I heard about him the first time as well, and they said he was under house arrest.
Is this jail thing for 2 years, a new thing come up?

He was under house arrest while waiting to go on trial.
He went on trial and got 2 years.

That being said let this be a lesson to anyone wanting to use Bitcoin for illicit purposes.

The lesson is:   
. <--- this is your asshole now
O <---- this is your asshole in jail

[caga]

The nose knows.

I watch "Rise and rise of Bitcoin" and listen to Charlie saying "I don't wanna go to jail" for some keks.

Greedy jew got off easy if you ask me.

Still confused. Thats where I heard about him the first time as well, and they said he was under house arrest.
Is this jail thing for 2 years, a new thing come up?

He was under house arrest while waiting to go on trial.
He went on trial and got 2 years.

That being said let this be a lesson to anyone wanting to use Bitcoin for illicit purposes.

The lesson is:   
. <--- this is your asshole now
O <---- this is your asshole in jail

Thanks for clearing that up.
ANd to add to it, this is probably only in the states. Laws arent cleraly defined in some other countries.

[jdbtracker]

This is a important factor that needs to be addressed, what is the legality by territory of Freedom? What amount of Freedom is allowed, is Freedom of Speech allowed? What level of Freedom of Action is allowed?

I would recommend that someone help out the community by creating a relational database in Neo4j of related laws affecting Bitcoin and which organization has say in the Enforcement and decision making of those laws, their mandate and global effects throughout their history. There is no need to Gimp the Community by spreading FUD... we need to tackle this in a scientific and replicable manner... we believe in p2p lets use our collective minds, actions and Dreams in our favor.

so scope would be global

1: Figure out Global organizations that can affect Bitcoin
2: Continental Organizations
3: Country specific ones
4: Provincial, State, Department, etc organizations within individual governments

next we figure out how they interact with each other starting from largest to smallest

1: Which Global Organizations have legal structures over-seeing smaller ones?
2: What mandate do these large and small organization have in common with each other?
3: Is there any breaks in the legal structures?  Do smaller autonomous Regional organizations have conflicting interests?
4: Who are these Organizations accountable too and do they have legal structures for their Constituents/representatives to put motions forward?

Now we figure out the history of the organizations and spot anyone s that used to exist but no longer do and what effect they have had on global events.

1: Begin researching original mandates of these organizations and how they have changed over time and why.
2: How have they interacted with other known organizations over time?
3: What effect have these Organizations had on Global events?
4: What factors have lead to these decisions and changes in mandate?

last we measure the psychological, physical, social effects that these organizations have had on their Constituents/Citizens

1: What effect have the histories of these organizations had on the population of the World?
2: What changes in the way that people have interacted changed?
3: How has the mass media been affected? are they self censoring, have their been major changes in their staff? Any major dissidents and what has happened to them?
4: What are the intentional and unintentional along with interesting effects that these organizations have had?


This all would have to be done in an open source manner so as many people as possible could read from it, query it and find how their individual ideas are affected by these organizations, preferably to be done on a blockchain to maximize Censorship resistance so that we may get a clear understanding with verifiable information traceable back to the source, just like in an academic paper. Use what already exists, categorize it and draw the connections between all the known factors. All searchable and open source for anyone to use, expand upon and discuss.  This will allow anyone to see if their Governments give them the opportunity to participate in their own Governance or if it is nothing more than a Facade with no  opportunity for Citizens to meaningfully put concerns forward... Basically: Are you living in a Oligarchy? Has your entire Legal Structure been setup to support an Elitist control structure, with no means of Personal Sovereignty?

I would recommend this Blockchain Database to be verified with hashes of original materials, to be setup as a side-chain for the Bitcoin mining protocol to protect it's integrity. so, academic papers, the written mandates, individual forms for submission and their hierarchy, Books, Historical documents, anything relevant has to be included into the Blockchain in as broad a scope as possible to make sure all points of view are accounted for.


The key words here are: Organizations, Governments, Businesses, Conglomerates, Cartels, Corporations, Courts, Markets, Laws, Mandates, Policies, Legal Structures, Mass Media, Sociology, Currencies, Populations, Demographics, Education, Psychology, Individuals, Forms, History, Lobbyists, Scientific Analysis, hierarchies, etc...

We have no choice at this point, we have to begin mapping out these systems and drawing correlations between them in a way that regular people can search through and be able to know what forms they must fill out and who they must speak to, with known historical outcomes of different actions.

[TheButterZone]

This is very sad, not only because Charlie is in Jail, but because it discourages people from wanting to create businesses with Bitcoin.

It should discourage people from creating illegal businesses, not businesses with Bitcoin.

All businesses are illegal unless you pay bribes of various types and by other names. Even something as simple as selling a single human hair.

Supposedly Silk Road was only for select victimless "crimes" and banned personal weapons (despite their mere possession being a human right infringed worldwide), terrorism, murder for hire, human trafficking, child porn, ID theft, or any legitimate (victimful) crime from being facilitated on it. Perhaps the US Navy devs who made TOR should be executed for all those things, because that's what happened/s elsewhere on TOR.

[Beliathon]

[data_teks]

He'll only actually serve about 18 months in prison.  Should get about 3.6 months good time and another 3 months home confinement or halfway house for the last bit of his sentence.


He wont be in any cell. He'll be at a prison camp where time will fly so fast.  He'll be going into the system as already being a "short timer".  In terms of FED sentencing, he got off super easy.

[slacknation]

He knew what he was doing. They've got kyc in place but he made an exception for this case due to greed. All along from the outside he made himself to be someone to be strict on kyc and compliance.

[moriartybitcoin]

lol he's such a moron!!

[moriartybitcoin]

Two years for him while all those banking exec douchebags who helped facilitate money laundering on an industrial scale got off with fines. Crazy world.

AGREED

[MarketNeutral]

An objective observation here: Shrem's notorious lifestyle certainly did not help his case. Regardless of the morality of the law and its interpretation thereof, if one conspicuously and flagrantly indulges in illegal intoxicants with shady hangers-on and women of negotiable affections, with profits made from dodgy websites, then one is asking for trouble.

[fr4nkthetank]

The fed is crazy!  What the hell does Charlie have to go to jail for two years for?  If you are going to do bitcoin, be careful you don't do something illegal!!!!

Thanks for the head's up! I'll make sure not to conspire with drug dealers to launder cash. lol

laundering cash with bitcoins, or cats, or washing machines its all the same.  yup

[gargantuar]

This is a important factor that needs to be addressed, what is the legality by territory of Freedom? What amount of Freedom is allowed, is Freedom of Speech allowed? What level of Freedom of Action is allowed?

I would recommend that someone help out the community by creating a relational database in Neo4j of related laws affecting Bitcoin and which organization has say in the Enforcement and decision making of those laws, their mandate and global effects throughout their history. There is no need to Gimp the Community by spreading FUD... we need to tackle this in a scientific and replicable manner... we believe in p2p lets use our collective minds, actions and Dreams in our favor.

so scope would be global

1: Figure out Global organizations that can affect Bitcoin
2: Continental Organizations
3: Country specific ones
4: Provincial, State, Department, etc organizations within individual governments

next we figure out how they interact with each other starting from largest to smallest

1: Which Global Organizations have legal structures over-seeing smaller ones?
2: What mandate do these large and small organization have in common with each other?
3: Is there any breaks in the legal structures?  Do smaller autonomous Regional organizations have conflicting interests?
4: Who are these Organizations accountable too and do they have legal structures for their Constituents/representatives to put motions forward?

Now we figure out the history of the organizations and spot anyone s that used to exist but no longer do and what effect they have had on global events.

1: Begin researching original mandates of these organizations and how they have changed over time and why.
2: How have they interacted with other known organizations over time?
3: What effect have these Organizations had on Global events?
4: What factors have lead to these decisions and changes in mandate?

last we measure the psychological, physical, social effects that these organizations have had on their Constituents/Citizens

1: What effect have the histories of these organizations had on the population of the World?
2: What changes in the way that people have interacted changed?
3: How has the mass media been affected? are they self censoring, have their been major changes in their staff? Any major dissidents and what has happened to them?
4: What are the intentional and unintentional along with interesting effects that these organizations have had?


This all would have to be done in an open source manner so as many people as possible could read from it, query it and find how their individual ideas are affected by these organizations, preferably to be done on a blockchain to maximize Censorship resistance so that we may get a clear understanding with verifiable information traceable back to the source, just like in an academic paper. Use what already exists, categorize it and draw the connections between all the known factors. All searchable and open source for anyone to use, expand upon and discuss.  This will allow anyone to see if their Governments give them the opportunity to participate in their own Governance or if it is nothing more than a Facade with no  opportunity for Citizens to meaningfully put concerns forward... Basically: Are you living in a Oligarchy? Has your entire Legal Structure been setup to support an Elitist control structure, with no means of Personal Sovereignty?

I would recommend this Blockchain Database to be verified with hashes of original materials, to be setup as a side-chain for the Bitcoin mining protocol to protect it's integrity. so, academic papers, the written mandates, individual forms for submission and their hierarchy, Books, Historical documents, anything relevant has to be included into the Blockchain in as broad a scope as possible to make sure all points of view are accounted for.


The key words here are: Organizations, Governments, Businesses, Conglomerates, Cartels, Corporations, Courts, Markets, Laws, Mandates, Policies, Legal Structures, Mass Media, Sociology, Currencies, Populations, Demographics, Education, Psychology, Individuals, Forms, History, Lobbyists, Scientific Analysis, hierarchies, etc...

We have no choice at this point, we have to begin mapping out these systems and drawing correlations between them in a way that regular people can search through and be able to know what forms they must fill out and who they must speak to, with known historical outcomes of different actions.

Wow!  Passion?  Energy?  Je ne sais quoi?  These are heavy tasks and to do them in a distributed way I would have thought impossible.  However, your post and the calories behind it make me have faith that this may be the next revolutionary war.  What would you like me to do to help?  I know I sound sarcastic but I am not.  This world is ready for change. We need more of this kind of energy and undogged determination.  Not my strong suit but I see it and repect it here.

[jdbtracker]

I just don't want to see the movement we have developed here falter. Bitcoin is important in so many ways, Businesses need to know where they stand, Organizations need legal guidance, no wonder the banks are cautious; I just think we need to solve these problems so that Bitcoin can grow, without Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. And even go beyond it, using the technology to provide low cost, Quality Information... this could do amazing things.

If you must do something it is just to learn. Everything that is written on this forum is searchable by Google; So it will never disappear. When an idea is needed it will be here somewhere, each according to their own will in their own time. At the moment I just feel that some structure is needed on being able to tackle these things as a community and have good, accurate information, that does a service to the people in real time. Just, that what I am thinking is out of this world, monumental, but we will get there. I just see so much possibility with this technology, Distributed Consensus, Censorship Resistant Databases, and some other crazy stuff, that we can't even imagine yet.

And besides, It was just a matter of time before the Big Data Revolution began Data Mining Everything.

[gargantuar]

@jdbtracker:  I agree.  You have a conviction, humility, and energy that we should all appreciate.  Personal responsibility and so many other ideas have been midwived by people like you.  I was a libertarian at age 22 (44 now) and saw bitcoin as the separation of money and state in 2010 (later than many).

You spent time creating an agenda (a structure) for a distributed effort to tackle one of the most recent assaults to our individuality.  I respect that immensely.  The individuals that feel what we feel are innumerable.  While your long and well-thought-out post may have not taken much of your time, it was more than what most of us contribute and more than I have contributed in the 4 years I have lurked on this forum. 

I have significant resources but what would you like to see first?  Currently I am running full nodes at two IPs and 1.2 terrahashes but I can write, blog, and do a variety of other things.

[jdbtracker]

@jdbtracker:  I agree.  You have a conviction, humility, and energy that we should all appreciate.  Personal responsibility and so many other ideas have been midwived by people like you.  I was a libertarian at age 22 (44 now) and saw bitcoin as the separation of money and state in 2010 (later than many).

You spent time creating an agenda (a structure) for a distributed effort to tackle one of the most recent assaults to our individuality.  I respect that immensely.  The individuals that feel what we feel are innumerable.  While your long and well-thought-out post may have not taken much of your time, it was more than what most of us contribute and more than I have contributed in the 4 years I have lurked on this forum. 

I have significant resources but what would you like to see first?  Currently I am running full nodes at two IPs and 1.2 terrahashes but I can write, blog, and do a variety of other things.

At this point it is just research, learning Neo4j and beginning to try to understand this very important legal information in a way that can be accessible, searchable, by everyone. Research into any organizations that already are involved in investigating these Specific Legal Matters(Bitcoin, Politics, Currencies, etc) and bring their knowledge into the 21st century. It's easier to use what is already available which would be from Human Rights Organizations, Political Watch Dogs, or any organization that independently monitors Things that the Bitcoin Community may be interested in; Eventually it would be nice to have a legal resource tailored for Cryptocurrency Users, so that all the guess work is taken out, you know where you stand and can proceed securely, or at least know how to challenge the measures taken by Governments and Organizations, yup... a wikipedia for all legal concerns, but... uncensorable.

It's best to start small with a wiki and begin the process of searching for relevant information. It will be a lot of work, I can imagine it could take years to complete; To research all the laws, to categorize them, to research the history and map it all out, searching for correlations on best places to continue researching. But the more people help, learn, discuss and share what they've researched. The faster it can be fully implemented, the sooner people can use it as a foundation for their Legal Business research.

[moriartybitcoin]

anyone who did business with SHREM has good reason to be afraid of the cops knocking on their door (or knocking down their door ..)

no doubt Charles is talking, talking, talking to the US Attorney about all his past business dealings.

Good luck folks!

[franky1]

This is a important factor that needs to be addressed, what is the legality by territory of Freedom? What amount of Freedom is allowed, is Freedom of Speech allowed? What level of Freedom of Action is allowed?

the words "freedom of speach" is a right GIVEN to you as part of a legislative act. pretty much the constitution / human rights paperwork signed by authorities in the past, by whatever territory you rcognise / live in.

STOP referring to the "rights" bestowed upon you by acts and laws.. and instead just mention the biological abilities you have by the simple fact of being alive.

you can walk, not walk. talk, not talk. fart, not fart. its biology!...

the moment you ignore your biology and play into the "rights" game of legislation, then you are then part of that legislative system, which can take away your "rights"..

so dont talk about rights.. talk about biological abilities that no one else should ever be able to tell you that you can or cannot do.
(unless your on state handouts/benefits, in which case if you show that your a human, and not a robot that follows written rules, be prepared to have te rules around state handouts taken away from you, as you obviously dont recognise that rule)

[malaimult]

anyone who did business with SHREM has good reason to be afraid of the cops knocking on their door (or knocking down their door ..)

no doubt Charles is talking, talking, talking to the US Attorney about all his past business dealings.

Good luck folks!

Why would he corporate after he was sent to prison for 2 years? I would think that he would try to use his knowledge about questionable business activities prior to being sent to prison.

Regardless, the majority of Charlies business was on the 'up and up' and no laws were broken

[countryfree]

The BBC writes about it:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30575103

Besides the harsh punishment, this is pretty bad news for BTC. If tomorrow I'm buying drugs with bitcoins I've bought today through an exchange, will the manager of that exchange company go to jail because he sold me the bitcoins I needed, providing me help in completing an illegal drug transaction?

This is highly worrying.
Charlie Shrem probably wasn't very smart, just like the average young man suddenly making big money, but somehow exchanges need to become like the post office, which isn't responsible if it delivers grass in a sealed envelope.

[jdbtracker]

This is a important factor that needs to be addressed, what is the legality by territory of Freedom? What amount of Freedom is allowed, is Freedom of Speech allowed? What level of Freedom of Action is allowed?

the words "freedom of speach" is a right GIVEN to you as part of a legislative act. pretty much the constitution / human rights paperwork signed by authorities in the past, by whatever territory you rcognise / live in.

STOP referring to the "rights" bestowed upon you by acts and laws.. and instead just mention the biological abilities you have by the simple fact of being alive.

you can walk, not walk. talk, not talk. fart, not fart. its biology!...

the moment you ignore your biology and play into the "rights" game of legislation, then you are then part of that legislative system, which can take away your "rights"..

so dont talk about rights.. talk about biological abilities that no one else should ever be able to tell you that you can or cannot do.
(unless your on state handouts/benefits, in which case if you show that your a human, and not a robot that follows written rules, be prepared to have te rules around state handouts taken away from you, as you obviously dont recognise that rule)

Powerful words... I like your attitude; And also very true. Laws, mandates, Policies do not define what we do... but it does delineate the actions that governs Governments, Corporations, and individuals, defining how we interact with these organizations. When these entities of far superior means begin to act against us it is very nice to be able to point out their divergence from agreed to Standards of Conduct. Trust me, when those are not there and someone is given enough power to hang your life in the balance... it is good to know where you stand, otherwise you end up in a place like Honduras where Violence is king, Money Talks, and Life is meaningless. If someone doesn't like the way you talk, they'll just kill you; Need paperwork done, Bribe someone; Everyone caries a gun and there is no justice, only what is convenient to officials is what is done... if they don't get some of your money, land, power, your screwed.

Everyone here is used to living in a place with restraints, watch dogs, accountability... your freedom has never been defined by the Gun in your pocket, Money in your bank account, or Power at your disposal; It is determined by Laws, Rights & Responsibilities, that define the conduct of Judges, Police, Politicians, Bureaucrats and other officially mandated representatives, knowing the rules they must follow is imperative to be able to define the appropriateness of their actions.

Eventually these systems will begin to be automated and these rules will be followed by enforcers that cannot be intimidated, Robots, by AI that cannot be swayed but follows legislation to the word, along with any hidden policies that are not Openly available to the public... this is important. These laws will eventually be automated by the system, enforced to the letter, creating the ultimate Police state, where all laws are enforced, all of the time, everywhere.

We will have no freedom on that day, when we realize the words written on those papers define a force that we cannot overcome, written by those who we let have full reign over the Collective might of our Lives.

[Unitus]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

[QuestionAuthority]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

No, they did it because it's against the law. Handing out one of the lightest sentences possible for this crime with 90 days off to get your affairs in order doesn't send much of a message. If they're sending any message it's: hey bitcoiners, we don't have anything against you but your bro broke the law. We have to do something about it so we're slapping him on the wrist and sending him to Club Fed for a couple of years.

[gargantuar]

@jdbtracker: I set up a wiki and will be doing my best to install neo4j on this Debian VPS.  Let me know if you would like the admin password and ssh. 

[TheButterZone]

@jdbtracker: I set up a wiki and will be doing my best to install neo4j on this Debian VPS.  Let me know if you would like the admin password and ssh. 

That's not how you private message.

[jdbtracker]

Now the whole world knows our plans to unite Bitcoin activists across the world to the Ultimate Global Legal Resource, for Businesses, Individuals and Bitcoin Bots everywhere. We may even turn it into a DAC that Data Mines on behalf of the Bitcoin community for a nominal fee; If this system had been up, Shrem may have checked it out with the UGLR DAC and weighed his options with absolute certainty and avoided this whole mess in the first place.

[Unitus]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

No, they did it because it's against the law. Handing out one of the lightest sentences possible for this crime with 90 days off to get your affairs in order doesn't send much of a message. If they're sending any message it's: hey bitcoiners, we don't have anything against you but your bro broke the law. We have to do something about it so we're slapping him on the wrist and sending him to Club Fed for a couple of years.

Yeah but, if we must have this "Club Fed" in order to maintain a civilized society (which one could debate the need), shouldn't that place be reserved for people who harm others and our environment. Who did Charlie hurt? and was it direct or indirect?

[malaimult]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

No, they did it because it's against the law. Handing out one of the lightest sentences possible for this crime with 90 days off to get your affairs in order doesn't send much of a message. If they're sending any message it's: hey bitcoiners, we don't have anything against you but your bro broke the law. We have to do something about it so we're slapping him on the wrist and sending him to Club Fed for a couple of years.

I would say it is something in between. IMO they were really out to get the person who was behind silk road (who is alleged to be Ross), but when they were going through the evidence on the SR servers they discovered that Charlie was breaking the law while dealing in SR and could not ignore this fact

[QuestionAuthority]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

No, they did it because it's against the law. Handing out one of the lightest sentences possible for this crime with 90 days off to get your affairs in order doesn't send much of a message. If they're sending any message it's: hey bitcoiners, we don't have anything against you but your bro broke the law. We have to do something about it so we're slapping him on the wrist and sending him to Club Fed for a couple of years.

Yeah but, if we must have this "Club Fed" in order to maintain a civilized society (which one could debate the need), shouldn't that place be reserved for people who harm others and our environment. Who did Charlie hurt? and was it direct or indirect?

The court would argue (so would most American Moral Majority voters) that drug crimes are not victimless. Anything that makes it easier for high school children to buy drugs creates plenty of victims. I'm not debating the validity of that belief but it's a common one. The American voting public (aka retards) love news stories about busting big bad drug dealers, pedophile rings and terrorists. They eat it up with their nightly TV dinners. Politicians that want to be reelected or move up the chain know this too. If they are instrumental in "taking down" that nasty terrorist they have bragging rights that are useful during elections. This guy Preet Bharararar or whatever the fuck his terrorist sounding name is loves to toot his own horn. He's obviously looking for some election juice. And he loves to bust people that provide that nightly news juice.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3027123/bitcoin-sheriff-of-the-web-preet-bharara

[picolo]

I think they did this to make an example out of him. To scare bitcoin entrepreneurs and investors. 

No, they did it because it's against the law. Handing out one of the lightest sentences possible for this crime with 90 days off to get your affairs in order doesn't send much of a message. If they're sending any message it's: hey bitcoiners, we don't have anything against you but your bro broke the law. We have to do something about it so we're slapping him on the wrist and sending him to Club Fed for a couple of years.

Yeah but, if we must have this "Club Fed" in order to maintain a civilized society (which one could debate the need), shouldn't that place be reserved for people who harm others and our environment. Who did Charlie hurt? and was it direct or indirect?

The court would argue (so would most American Moral Majority voters) that drug crimes are not victimless. Anything that makes it easier for high school children to buy drugs creates plenty of victims. I'm not debating the validity of that belief but it's a common one. The American voting public (aka retards) love news stories about busting big bad drug dealers, pedophile rings and terrorists. They eat it up with their nightly TV dinners. Politicians that want to be reelected or move up the chain know this too. If they are instrumental in "taking down" that nasty terrorist they have bragging rights that are useful during elections. This guy Preet Bharararar or whatever the fuck his terrorist sounding name is loves to toot his own horn. He's obviously looking for some election juice. And he loves to bust people that provide that nightly news juice.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3027123/bitcoin-sheriff-of-the-web-preet-bharara

The war on drugs has some positive in the sense that it shows drugs are bad and some people won't do it because of that but the negatives are FAR bigger so drugs should be legalized

[TrailingComet]

He was originally going down for 30 years. I agree that even 2 years is too much, but seems like 2 years is a better outcome given the overall shitty circumstances

[picolo]

He was originally going down for 30 years. I agree that even 2 years is too much, but seems like 2 years is a better outcome given the overall shitty circumstances

I haven't followed his business or the trial closely and drugs should be legal but considering the law and what he did 2 years is a reasonable sentence.

[gargantuar]

@jdbtracker: I set up a wiki and will be doing my best to install neo4j on this Debian VPS.  Let me know if you would like the admin password and ssh. 

That's not how you private message.

Good point.  I think one of my kids must have been climbing on me.  Happens more when they are out of school.

[Morecoin Freeman]

If tomorrow I'm buying drugs with bitcoins I've bought today through an exchange, will the manager of that exchange company go to jail because he sold me the bitcoins I needed, providing me help in completing an illegal drug transaction?

If the exchange is compliant with all rules for financial institutions there is no problem on their part.
I guess Shrem's business was not compliant since he ended up in jail.

[TheButterZone]

Didn't bribe enough people enough to be "compliant".

[TheMage]

Sorry if this was said already (post skipped after page 1), but for those who are crying "Poor Charlie"...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January14/SchremFaiellaChargesPR/Faiella,%20Robert%20M.%20and%20Charlie%20Shrem%20Complaint.pdf




Long story short, BTCking triggered AML and and email was sent to him by bitinstant (some people CC'ed on the email, Charlie included), and said they were closing his account.


Charlie went behind that email and solicited BTCking to continue using them, and told him how to avoid triggering their AML policy (keep in mind as their AML office in charge of enforcing those policies).


Silk road, drugs, government not getting a cut (taxes), and every other conspiracy here aside, what Charlie did was reckless, stupid, and illegal. Those who are cheering him on as some martyr need a reality check.

[TheButterZone]

Everyone breaking unjust laws should be executed for daring to live.

[ABitNut]

Sorry if this was said already (post skipped after page 1), but for those who are crying "Poor Charlie"...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January14/SchremFaiellaChargesPR/Faiella,%20Robert%20M.%20and%20Charlie%20Shrem%20Complaint.pdf




Long story short, BTCking triggered AML and and email was sent to him by bitinstant (some people CC'ed on the email, Charlie included), and said they were closing his account.


Charlie went behind that email and solicited BTCking to continue using them, and told him how to avoid triggering their AML policy (keep in mind as their AML office in charge of enforcing those policies).


Silk road, drugs, government not getting a cut (taxes), and every other conspiracy here aside, what Charlie did was reckless, stupid, and illegal. Those who are cheering him on as some martyr need a reality check.

Just shows that he will have a promising political career ahead of him. He has shown he has no respect for rules and regulations, is experienced in back room deals and he has the charisma to make people think he's still a good guy. Just the kind of guy you want running your community!

For all you liberal, freedom minded people out there... The current system is plenty liberal. You can break the law and do anything you want without consequence. You don't get punished for that. There's only one rule: Don't get caught! You only get punished for getting caught.

And there are ways to mitigate punishment even if you do get caught. As is demonstrated by Charlie cum sui in this particular case.

[BittBurger]

If any of you have heard Charlie speak - say on Lets Talk Bitcoin podcast, or elsewhere, and you are over age .... say .... 30 ... one thing is very clear about Charlie.  He's young.  Psychologically speaking. Just listening to him talk made that very obvious. There's a certain naivety in his thinking, which no doubt played a role.  But he's probably no younger than he should be psychologically, at his age.  He said a lot of things on the podcasts that he knew he shouldn't be saying, and his attorneys advised him never to say - let alone on a podcast.  But he did anyway.  He's got an element of recklessness in him personality-wise, and of course he has political beliefs that don't exactly give a shit about government, nor rules.  So to be completely honest, what did you expect? He was just being who he is.  Although I can't agree the guy harmed anyone. He said he has learned his lesson.  I suppose my point is that you've got a hardcore libertarian / anarchist here who is also a bit young and inexperienced.   Those are relevant factors, though they don't matter when it comes to breaking the law.  He's not a martyr, but he did deserve the extremely toned-down sentence he got.  He was thankful to the judge for being lenient, and I think it was a fair move on the judge's part.  He could've gotten 20+ years.

-B-

[HELP.org]

If any of you have heard Charlie speak - say on Lets Talk Bitcoin podcast, or elsewhere, and you are over age .... say .... 30 ... one thing is very clear about Charlie.  He's young.  Psychologically speaking. Just listening to him talk made that very obvious. There's a certain naivety in his thinking, which no doubt played a role.  But he's probably no younger than he should be psychologically, at his age.  He said a lot of things on the podcasts that he knew he shouldn't be saying, and his attorneys advised him never to say - let alone on a podcast.  But he did anyway.  He's got an element of recklessness in him personality-wise, and of course he has political beliefs that don't exactly give a shit about government, nor rules.  So to be completely honest, what did you expect? He was just being who he is.  Although I can't agree the guy harmed anyone. He said he has learned his lesson.  I suppose my point is that you've got a hardcore libertarian / anarchist here who is also a bit young and inexperienced.   Those are relevant factors, though they don't matter when it comes to breaking the law.  He's not a martyr, but he did deserve the extremely toned-down sentence he got.  He was thankful to the judge for being lenient, and I think it was a fair move on the judge's part.  He could've gotten 20+ years.

-B-

If you listen to him and look at things like his court statement the thing that jumps out at me is that he doesn't learn and he doesn't listen.  Bitcoin is a great technology but it is not the biggest thing that has ever happened to the world and he is not the "messiah" that he thinks he is.  He knows something about Bitcoin and he thinks he he knows about everything and predict all kinds of things.  His success in Bitcoin has gone to his head and it has screwed up his decision-making process.

For instance, he speaks out against copyrights.  he points to abuses and says the whole system should be ended.  the guy lives with his parents and made money with Bitcoin.  He never had to work as an independent musician or artist and he does not have the slightest idea how the system works or what it means to all those people.  he goes around talking like the whole world is stupid.  He is ridiculous and he only hangs out with other mentally ill people like Roger Ver who go around talking about how Bitcoin will end war.  He lives in an echo chamber so he never listens to any other point of view.  in one interview he was practically in tears saying how nobody, including his parents, don't understand him and that only other Bitcoiners understand him.  He doesn't realize that is him who doesn't understand the rest of the world.  Theymos is the same way.  There is absolutely zero chance that Bitcoin will have mass adoption by listening to the ideas of these people and allowing them to run things.  However, I believe people will eventually see past the crazies and see Bitcoin for its true value.  See, for instance, https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html for an idea of how the real world sees some of the Bitcoin nonsense.

That being said, I don't like the idea of paying to house jackasses like Shrem for crimes that are not that serious.  He should have gotten probation.

[Jamesonotc]

That's terrible news. He didn't do anything ethically wrong.

Throughout all this, I've been wondering how much he was actually complicit in the Silk Road stuff. Apparently he knew that btcking had something to do with the Silk Road, but was it just a bit of passing knowledge, or was he actually very purposefully trying to help btcking with money laundering? I'd feel better if it was the latter, since at least he'd have known the risks ahead of time.

Charlie reminds me of a young gary vaynerchuk with his passion....

However charlie fell into the wrong space at the wrong time.

And trust me, i've seen it happen numerous times over and over in crypto.

Many folks think they know everything about the protocol in bitcoin but may have got themselves a bit to deep without the full understanding or maturity to realize the scale of the decisions to be made.

Charlie is the classic man wanting to scale to the moon way before he had the appropriate gear to get there. Charlie saw the liquidity of bitcoin in these darknet markets im SURE and fully embraced the movements in and out with a happy grin. Ethically wrong, nope, just ahead of the curve and in the wrong place with big googly eyes staring at a money pit. Hopefully he stashed some away for attorney/legal fees

I did enjoy his energy and passion for digital currency. In the wild west charlie would win in this scenario....

[moni3z]

Automatic release after 85% of his sentence, so out in 1.7 years, likely earlier as the federal system is overcrowded. Federal system has better food and facilities than state dungeons too plus he can access email through corrlinks. Send him some books (directly from Amazon only) once he appears in the BOP inmate locator site, libraries there are terrible.

[picolo]

If any of you have heard Charlie speak - say on Lets Talk Bitcoin podcast, or elsewhere, and you are over age .... say .... 30 ... one thing is very clear about Charlie.  He's young.  Psychologically speaking. Just listening to him talk made that very obvious. There's a certain naivety in his thinking, which no doubt played a role.  But he's probably no younger than he should be psychologically, at his age.  He said a lot of things on the podcasts that he knew he shouldn't be saying, and his attorneys advised him never to say - let alone on a podcast.  But he did anyway.  He's got an element of recklessness in him personality-wise, and of course he has political beliefs that don't exactly give a shit about government, nor rules.  So to be completely honest, what did you expect? He was just being who he is.  Although I can't agree the guy harmed anyone. He said he has learned his lesson.  I suppose my point is that you've got a hardcore libertarian / anarchist here who is also a bit young and inexperienced.   Those are relevant factors, though they don't matter when it comes to breaking the law.  He's not a martyr, but he did deserve the extremely toned-down sentence he got.  He was thankful to the judge for being lenient, and I think it was a fair move on the judge's part.  He could've gotten 20+ years.

-B-

If you listen to him and look at things like his court statement the thing that jumps out at me is that he doesn't learn and he doesn't listen.  Bitcoin is a great technology but it is not the biggest thing that has ever happened to the world and he is not the "messiah" that he thinks he is.  He knows something about Bitcoin and he thinks he he knows about everything and predict all kinds of things.  His success in Bitcoin has gone to his head and it has screwed up his decision-making process.

For instance, he speaks out against copyrights.  he points to abuses and says the whole system should be ended.  the guy lives with his parents and made money with Bitcoin.  He never had to work as an independent musician or artist and he does not have the slightest idea how the system works or what it means to all those people.  he goes around talking like the whole world is stupid.  He is ridiculous and he only hangs out with other mentally ill people like Roger Ver who go around talking about how Bitcoin will end war.  He lives in an echo chamber so he never listens to any other point of view.  in one interview he was practically in tears saying how nobody, including his parents, don't understand him and that only other Bitcoiners understand him.  He doesn't realize that is him who doesn't understand the rest of the world.  Theymos is the same way.  There is absolutely zero chance that Bitcoin will have mass adoption by listening to the ideas of these people and allowing them to run things.  However, I believe people will eventually see past the crazies and see Bitcoin for its true value.  See, for instance, https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html for an idea of how the real world sees some of the Bitcoin nonsense.

That being said, I don't like the idea of paying to house jackasses like Shrem for crimes that are not that serious.  He should have gotten probation.

You give an amazing point of view. Living in an echo chamber push you not to be open to others ideas and point of view.
I don't agree there's an absolute zero chance that Bitcoin will have mass adoption by listening to the ideas of these people if mass adoption means a Trillion market cap in the sense that they can be part of the solution and convince people like me who will convince other people in a less passionate way.

[Meuh6879]

separate wall street flux (CDS/ABS) ... and food ... and that it, you don't need trillion of money.

[MarketNeutral]

I don't think the US Government would have came at him so hard if he had not instructed others on exactly how to avoid the law.


~BCX~

This.

[Alonzo Ewing]

If any of you have heard Charlie speak - say on Lets Talk Bitcoin podcast, or elsewhere, and you are over age .... say .... 30 ... one thing is very clear about Charlie.  He's young.  Psychologically speaking. Just listening to him talk made that very obvious. There's a certain naivety in his thinking, which no doubt played a role.  But he's probably no younger than he should be psychologically, at his age.  He said a lot of things on the podcasts that he knew he shouldn't be saying, and his attorneys advised him never to say - let alone on a podcast.  But he did anyway.  He's got an element of recklessness in him personality-wise, and of course he has political beliefs that don't exactly give a shit about government, nor rules.  So to be completely honest, what did you expect? He was just being who he is.  Although I can't agree the guy harmed anyone. He said he has learned his lesson.  I suppose my point is that you've got a hardcore libertarian / anarchist here who is also a bit young and inexperienced.   Those are relevant factors, though they don't matter when it comes to breaking the law.  He's not a martyr, but he did deserve the extremely toned-down sentence he got.  He was thankful to the judge for being lenient, and I think it was a fair move on the judge's part.  He could've gotten 20+ years.

-B-

Charlie is not "a hardcore libertarian / anarchist".

[Kluge]

It's really disappointing to need an anonymous rather than pseudonymous internet. I'd really prefer the infrastructure facilitate honesty than two-faced people with double-lives, where people need to keep discussions on the weather and fake passion, knowing nothing about each other and needing to keep it that way.

[picolo]

I don't think the US Government would have came at him so hard if he had not instructed others on exactly how to avoid the law.


~BCX~

This.

They are punishing very strongly when you show you are against the State and taxes and tell people how to avoid taxes.

[bf4btc]

It's really disappointing to need an anonymous rather than pseudonymous internet. I'd really prefer the infrastructure facilitate honesty than two-faced people with double-lives, where people need to keep discussions on the weather and fake passion, knowing nothing about each other and needing to keep it that way.

The issue in this case was not that he was lacking anonymity it was that he was not following the money laundering laws. All that he really needed to do in order to prevent himself from being in 'hot water' from his dealings with the guy from Silk Road was to collect the identities of people he was doing business which (not even necessarily provide such identities to the government)

[Guido]

Sorry if this was said already (post skipped after page 1), but for those who are crying "Poor Charlie"...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January14/SchremFaiellaChargesPR/Faiella,%20Robert%20M.%20and%20Charlie%20Shrem%20Complaint.pdf




Long story short, BTCking triggered AML and and email was sent to him by bitinstant (some people CC'ed on the email, Charlie included), and said they were closing his account.


Charlie went behind that email and solicited BTCking to continue using them, and told him how to avoid triggering their AML policy (keep in mind as their AML office in charge of enforcing those policies).


Silk road, drugs, government not getting a cut (taxes), and every other conspiracy here aside, what Charlie did was reckless, stupid, and illegal. Those who are cheering him on as some martyr need a reality check.

agreed

[TheButterZone]

How about instead of freeing slaves on the underground railroad, you stop breaking the law?

[Willisius]

How about instead of freeing slaves on the underground railroad, you stop breaking the law?

I don't think we will see people support this when it comes to people involved in bitcoin. It is arguable that Charlie (as well as Ross) played major a major role in getting bitcoin to be where it is today. If either (or both) of them did not break the laws that they (allegedly) broke then we would probably not have the price, nor adoption that we have today.

For these reasons people who are involved in bitcoin are going to advocate that we turn our eyes the other way when it comes to their crimes

[philiveyjr]

if ubricht gets a lesser sentance.. or btcking.. then shrem should appeal his sentancing as it does not fall into line that a lesser crime compared to the other two deserves a bigger punnishment.

Are you kidding?  Ulbricht is going to get no less than 20 years.  He is in a complete different position than Shrem.  Shrem was a little loose with the folks he chose as business partners and didn't care what they were engaged in.  

Ulbricht set up one of the biggest drug trading platforms known to man.  

Ol' Shremmy was a bit naughty - but not too much more.  Ross is a world class drug lord of epic proportions.  He could go to jail for life.  Size does matter.  Ross sold more drugs that nearly anyone in history.  Many poor suckers caught with a two pound bag of cocaine did 20 years.  Ross does no less than them - I am certain of that.

If that murder for hire stuff sticks - 100% he never sees light of day again.

Lol yeah I agree.!! Uldricht should get around 20 or more if Shrem gets 2 years.!

[picolo]

It's really disappointing to need an anonymous rather than pseudonymous internet. I'd really prefer the infrastructure facilitate honesty than two-faced people with double-lives, where people need to keep discussions on the weather and fake passion, knowing nothing about each other and needing to keep it that way.

The issue in this case was not that he was lacking anonymity it was that he was not following the money laundering laws. All that he really needed to do in order to prevent himself from being in 'hot water' from his dealings with the guy from Silk Road was to collect the identities of people he was doing business which (not even necessarily provide such identities to the government)

He would not have been able to do that and according to the law he should not have process money if he suspected they were involved in criminal dealings.

[wadili89]

It doesnt seem too bad. I guess he will do 18 months at most and the rest will be suspended.
He is well known too and should be able to get a job when he comes out if he needs one. He must be very rich being an early adopter.

[Beliathon]

I don't think the US Government would have came at him so hard if he had not instructed others on exactly how to avoid the law.


~BCX~

This.

They are punishing very strongly when you show you are against the State and taxes and tell people how to avoid taxes.

Gotta make those terrifying examples so the other sheeple don't get any ideas.

This is herd management 101. Think of government as people-farmers and it all makes sense.

[HELP.org]

You give an amazing point of view. Living in an echo chamber push you not to be open to others ideas and point of view.
I don't agree there's an absolute zero chance that Bitcoin will have mass adoption by listening to the ideas of these people if mass adoption means a Trillion market cap in the sense that they can be part of the solution and convince people like me who will convince other people in a less passionate way.

There are plenty of reasonable people who promote Bitcoin and I am convinced they will propel Bitcoin forward.  Those people DO NOT include the usual people you hear about on the discussion boards, like Shrem, Vorhees, Rassah, Ver etc. are all pushing a fantasy agenda, not Bitcoin.  They don't get much traction promoting their agenda alone so they linked their agenda to Bitcoin.  They misrepresent things, make wild claims, talk like it some kind of religion, and act like people will be walking around with Ayn Rand books under their arm once they do a Bitcoin transaction.  If those people ran things there would be zero chance of mass adoption.  Once the nut job wing nuts get pushed out by the reasonable people I think things will be fine.  Not that their ideas are 100% wrong, they just push things to a ridiculous extreme.

[Window2Wall]

I don't think the US Government would have came at him so hard if he had not instructed others on exactly how to avoid the law.


~BCX~

This.

This is 100% true - literally. The crime that he plead guilty to was aiding a money launder, which means he was helping someone break the law

[stefanoRR57]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

[Kluge]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

Bitcoin's credibility derives from its use, not its individual users' use practices. Unlike most technologies, there's no central authority here to tarnish the reputation of the product (unless perhaps there's a "The Bitcoin Foundation" and you have a significant percentage of board members being child molesters, serial scammers, and outright thieves). Shrem can go bite off a baby's head and force the mother to drink its blood, but it'd be completely irrelevant to bitcoin's credibility, and the same would be true if Shrem demanded a BTC1000 payment to not have to bite off the baby's head, and maybe he even offers to take her USD and exchange it through BitInstant without a fee -- bitcoin unaffected.

-Or, to change the thinking process around a bit -- Tide is a popular (and unusually expensive) laundry detergent here in the US. There was a slew of stories last year covering it being stolen in extraordinary quantities from retail stores across the country and being used as a drug currency. -So I'd look at Tide like BitInstant, Charlie as the CEO of Tide offering tips on making safe and LEO-free trades, and Bitcoin like the whole laundry detergent category. Charlie's tips make for an interesting story, feds busting him for something appearing so benign elicits an eye-roll, people might smirk a bit when they see Tide again, but laundry detergent's pretty much completely unaffected. ... Though I suppose there aren't many "laundry detergent enthusiasts" trying to suggest laundry detergent is a superior form of payment, as proven by people involved in drug transactions rejecting USD to swap suds. .... Probably over-thinking it, now.

[Window2Wall]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

Bitcoin's credibility derives from its use, not its individual users' use practices. Unlike most technologies, there's no central authority here to tarnish the reputation of the product (unless perhaps there's a "The Bitcoin Foundation" and you have a significant percentage of board members being child molesters, serial scammers, and outright thieves). Shrem can go bite off a baby's head and force the mother to drink its blood, but it'd be completely irrelevant to bitcoin's credibility, and the same would be true if Shrem demanded a BTC1000 payment to not have to bite off the baby's head, and maybe he even offers to take her USD and exchange it through BitInstant without a fee -- bitcoin unaffected.

-Or, to change the thinking process around a bit -- Tide is a popular (and unusually expensive) laundry detergent here in the US. There was a slew of stories last year covering it being stolen in extraordinary quantities from retail stores across the country and being used as a drug currency. -So I'd look at Tide like BitInstant, Charlie as the CEO of Tide offering tips on making safe and LEO-free trades, and Bitcoin like the whole laundry detergent category. Charlie's tips make for an interesting story, feds busting him for something appearing so benign elicits an eye-roll, people might smirk a bit when they see Tide again, but laundry detergent's pretty much completely unaffected. ... Though I suppose there aren't many "laundry detergent enthusiasts" trying to suggest laundry detergent is a superior form of payment, as proven by people involved in drug transactions rejecting USD to swap suds. .... Probably over-thinking it, now.

The thing is that these examples associate bitcoin with a bad name. You are correct that Charlie does not represent bitcoin and his name is not 100% tied to bitcoin however he is an effective figurehead for bitcoin

[Kluge]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

Bitcoin's credibility derives from its use, not its individual users' use practices. Unlike most technologies, there's no central authority here to tarnish the reputation of the product (unless perhaps there's a "The Bitcoin Foundation" and you have a significant percentage of board members being child molesters, serial scammers, and outright thieves). Shrem can go bite off a baby's head and force the mother to drink its blood, but it'd be completely irrelevant to bitcoin's credibility, and the same would be true if Shrem demanded a BTC1000 payment to not have to bite off the baby's head, and maybe he even offers to take her USD and exchange it through BitInstant without a fee -- bitcoin unaffected.

-Or, to change the thinking process around a bit -- Tide is a popular (and unusually expensive) laundry detergent here in the US. There was a slew of stories last year covering it being stolen in extraordinary quantities from retail stores across the country and being used as a drug currency. -So I'd look at Tide like BitInstant, Charlie as the CEO of Tide offering tips on making safe and LEO-free trades, and Bitcoin like the whole laundry detergent category. Charlie's tips make for an interesting story, feds busting him for something appearing so benign elicits an eye-roll, people might smirk a bit when they see Tide again, but laundry detergent's pretty much completely unaffected. ... Though I suppose there aren't many "laundry detergent enthusiasts" trying to suggest laundry detergent is a superior form of payment, as proven by people involved in drug transactions rejecting USD to swap suds. .... Probably over-thinking it, now.

The thing is that these examples associate bitcoin with a bad name. You are correct that Charlie does not represent bitcoin and his name is not 100% tied to bitcoin however he is an effective figurehead for bitcoin

Laundry detergent (specifically, Tide) aids money laundering. USD can be serial-tracked each time it's moved around by banks, but Tide isn't. Even if most people DID think poorly of aiding money laundering, and the head of Tide (the market leader in laundry detergents) plead guilty to aiding money laundering by posting Facebook tips detailing the best practices in Tide-weed exchanges, only Tide has a chance of being affected (and the head of Tide, obviously), while it probably won't have any impact on whether or not normal people are going to use Tide ("What does it cost?" "What are its benefits?" [and yeah, I'm assuming almost all people don't spend time wondering what other people will think their laundry detergent brand selection says about them, which could be off-base]). We're still thinking too much like speculators.

[QuestionAuthority]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

Bitcoin's credibility derives from its use, not its individual users' use practices. Unlike most technologies, there's no central authority here to tarnish the reputation of the product (unless perhaps there's a "The Bitcoin Foundation" and you have a significant percentage of board members being child molesters, serial scammers, and outright thieves). Shrem can go bite off a baby's head and force the mother to drink its blood, but it'd be completely irrelevant to bitcoin's credibility, and the same would be true if Shrem demanded a BTC1000 payment to not have to bite off the baby's head, and maybe he even offers to take her USD and exchange it through BitInstant without a fee -- bitcoin unaffected.

-Or, to change the thinking process around a bit -- Tide is a popular (and unusually expensive) laundry detergent here in the US. There was a slew of stories last year covering it being stolen in extraordinary quantities from retail stores across the country and being used as a drug currency. -So I'd look at Tide like BitInstant, Charlie as the CEO of Tide offering tips on making safe and LEO-free trades, and Bitcoin like the whole laundry detergent category. Charlie's tips make for an interesting story, feds busting him for something appearing so benign elicits an eye-roll, people might smirk a bit when they see Tide again, but laundry detergent's pretty much completely unaffected. ... Though I suppose there aren't many "laundry detergent enthusiasts" trying to suggest laundry detergent is a superior form of payment, as proven by people involved in drug transactions rejecting USD to swap suds. .... Probably over-thinking it, now.

The thing is that these examples associate bitcoin with a bad name. You are correct that Charlie does not represent bitcoin and his name is not 100% tied to bitcoin however he is an effective figurehead for bitcoin

Laundry detergent (specifically, Tide) aids money laundering. USD can be serial-tracked each time it's moved around by banks, but Tide isn't. Even if most people DID think poorly of aiding money laundering, and the head of Tide (the market leader in laundry detergents) plead guilty to aiding money laundering by posting Facebook tips detailing the best practices in Tide-weed exchanges, only Tide has a chance of being affected (and the head of Tide, obviously), while it probably won't have any impact on whether or not normal people are going to use Tide ("What does it cost?" "What are its benefits?" [and yeah, I'm assuming almost all people don't spend time wondering what other people will think their laundry detergent brand selection says about them, which could be off-base]). We're still thinking too much like speculators.

Wow, that's a depth of rationalization that few people possess.  I would agree with your analogy if the Tide compliance officer met with a known money launderer and told him how to subvert the law.

Also, BTW, customers do care what companies they use are doing. There are many examples in history.

Fruit of the Loom crumbled in the face of pressure from a boycott. In an incredible about-face the company re-opened a Honduran factory it had closed after workers had unionised. Furthermore, it also gave all 1,200 employees their jobs back, awarded them $2.5 million in compensation and restored all union rights.

Palestinian solidarity activists were celebrated in July 2014 after a double victory over SodaStream, a company with facilities in the occupied West Bank.
First came the news that SodaStream was closing its flagship eco-store in Brighton. This was followed a day later by a decision from John Lewis to stop stocking SodaStream products.

[Kluge]

he is young so he has time to recover and come back,  for bitcoin credibility this must be accepted;  bitcoin people respect the law:  we are in a state of law

Bitcoin's credibility derives from its use, not its individual users' use practices. Unlike most technologies, there's no central authority here to tarnish the reputation of the product (unless perhaps there's a "The Bitcoin Foundation" and you have a significant percentage of board members being child molesters, serial scammers, and outright thieves). Shrem can go bite off a baby's head and force the mother to drink its blood, but it'd be completely irrelevant to bitcoin's credibility, and the same would be true if Shrem demanded a BTC1000 payment to not have to bite off the baby's head, and maybe he even offers to take her USD and exchange it through BitInstant without a fee -- bitcoin unaffected.

-Or, to change the thinking process around a bit -- Tide is a popular (and unusually expensive) laundry detergent here in the US. There was a slew of stories last year covering it being stolen in extraordinary quantities from retail stores across the country and being used as a drug currency. -So I'd look at Tide like BitInstant, Charlie as the CEO of Tide offering tips on making safe and LEO-free trades, and Bitcoin like the whole laundry detergent category. Charlie's tips make for an interesting story, feds busting him for something appearing so benign elicits an eye-roll, people might smirk a bit when they see Tide again, but laundry detergent's pretty much completely unaffected. ... Though I suppose there aren't many "laundry detergent enthusiasts" trying to suggest laundry detergent is a superior form of payment, as proven by people involved in drug transactions rejecting USD to swap suds. .... Probably over-thinking it, now.

The thing is that these examples associate bitcoin with a bad name. You are correct that Charlie does not represent bitcoin and his name is not 100% tied to bitcoin however he is an effective figurehead for bitcoin

Laundry detergent (specifically, Tide) aids money laundering. USD can be serial-tracked each time it's moved around by banks, but Tide isn't. Even if most people DID think poorly of aiding money laundering, and the head of Tide (the market leader in laundry detergents) plead guilty to aiding money laundering by posting Facebook tips detailing the best practices in Tide-weed exchanges, only Tide has a chance of being affected (and the head of Tide, obviously), while it probably won't have any impact on whether or not normal people are going to use Tide ("What does it cost?" "What are its benefits?" [and yeah, I'm assuming almost all people don't spend time wondering what other people will think their laundry detergent brand selection says about them, which could be off-base]). We're still thinking too much like speculators.

Wow, that's a depth of rationalization that few people possess.  I would agree with your analogy if the Tide compliance officer met with a known money launderer and told him how to subvert the law.

Also, BTW, customers do care what companies they use are doing. There are many examples in history.

Fruit of the Loom crumbled in the face of pressure from a boycott. In an incredible about-face the company re-opened a Honduran factory it had closed after workers had unionised. Furthermore, it also gave all 1,200 employees their jobs back, awarded them $2.5 million in compensation and restored all union rights.

Palestinian solidarity activists were celebrated in July 2014 after a double victory over SodaStream, a company with facilities in the occupied West Bank.
First came the news that SodaStream was closing its flagship eco-store in Brighton. This was followed a day later by a decision from John Lewis to stop stocking SodaStream products.

Thanks. At any rate, people will probably still buy laundry detergent except the most paranoid weirdos insisting there's some kind of detergent manufacturers' conspiracy pumping up the world's largest drug exchange. If Shrem left "Tide" - keeping in mind it wasn't company policy to aid money laundering (AFAIK) - "Tide" would probably be fine if it ever re-opened, so long as Shrem was still left out of operations. This isn't like a company decision to close a factory because employees uninionized or a decision to operate a factory in a disputed geographical region, this is Charlie Shrem being Charlie Shrem (or maybe Charlie Shrem being Yankee, but probably not Charlie Shrem being BitInstant - and the LEOs apparently didn't look at it that way, either).

[jdbtracker]

Indeed we could very well start putting Tide barcode hashes on the blockchain and start exchanging them for various denominations... But does it still count if you use the tide detergent within?

That would be a hell of a story coming from tide... I can almost see a movie made out of this. lol

[Kluge]

Indeed we could very well start putting Tide barcode hashes on the blockchain and start exchanging them for various denominations... But does it still count if you use the tide detergent within?

That would be a hell of a story coming from tide... I can almost see a movie made out of this. lol

I'd guess there could be a kind of clearing house requiring a % of issued containers of Tide being represented as coins held physically as collateral. If someone needed to do laundry and ran out of detergent (or the dealer/launderer demanded physical detergent instead of the IOU), they could hit up the closest clearing house warehouse and redeem one of their Tidecoins, similar to what's done with that biogas/cryptocoin company whose name escapes me. They refine fuel from cow manure...

[charlieSeen]

Laundry detergent (specifically, Tide) aids money laundering. USD can be serial-tracked each time it's moved around by banks, but Tide isn't. Even if most people DID think poorly of aiding money laundering, and the head of Tide (the market leader in laundry detergents) plead guilty to aiding money laundering by posting Facebook tips detailing the best practices in Tide-weed exchanges, only Tide has a chance of being affected (and the head of Tide, obviously), while it probably won't have any impact on whether or not normal people are going to use Tide ("What does it cost?" "What are its benefits?" [and yeah, I'm assuming almost all people don't spend time wondering what other people will think their laundry detergent brand selection says about them, which could be off-base]). We're still thinking too much like speculators.

Cash fiat does not need to be moved by banks each time it is transferred from one person to another. I would think that most movements of physical cash are done outside of the banking system. It is also very rare that banks will keep track of the serial number of the bills they have (unless the bills are specifically marked as robbery 'bait' money).

I would argue that to an extent bitcoin is more difficult to launder then physical cash is because every transaction is recorded on the blockchain so in theory even if you used a mixing service, the laundered money can still be linked back to you (plus you need to take the risks of the mixing service being some kind of honeypot).

[numismatist]

I don't think the US Government would have came at him so hard if he had not instructed others on exactly how to avoid the law.
~BCX~

This.

This is 100% true - literally. The crime that he plead guilty to was aiding a money launder, which means he was helping someone break the law

Exactly. To make an example of brutal justice.

[grendel25]

I'm usually not a conspiracy theorist but this sentence seems outrageous and I just don't trust it.  This seems like a backwards move in American justice that should reward pioneers for daring efforts rather than impede technological growth. 

He should get off well before 2 years but wow...  I'm taken aback.

[QuestionAuthority]

Silk Road 3 will never get busted because they intend to use Tide instead of Bitcoin.

[charlieSeen]

Silk Road 3 will never get busted because they intend to use Tide instead of Bitcoin.

LOL. If DPR3 can figure out how to transact tide pallets digitally without allowing them to be traced then it may be difficult to figure out their sales volume.

Both SR1 and SR2 were shut down because of weaknesses in their .onion site security, it has nothing to do with the fact that they were using bitcoin (except that bitcoin may have shut down other, more traditional avenues to shut them down)

[QuestionAuthority]

Silk Road 3 will never get busted because they intend to use Tide instead of Bitcoin.

LOL. If DPR3 can figure out how to transact tide pallets digitally without allowing them to be traced then it may be difficult to figure out their sales volume.

Both SR1 and SR2 were shut down because of weaknesses in their .onion site security, it has nothing to do with the fact that they were using bitcoin (except that bitcoin may have shut down other, more traditional avenues to shut them down)

No, I'm pretty sure it's because they were using Purex instead of Tide.

[TheMage]

Silk Road 3 will never get busted because they intend to use Tide instead of Bitcoin.

Best post in this thread 

[bracek]

the guy is a crook

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=817069.0

[bitcoinmining]

Guys if you read news about the trial of Charlie, he indirectly accepted accusations about him. There is nothing to discuss after that IMO...