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Author Topic: If bitcoin becomes illegal?  (Read 9545 times)
AmazonStuff
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June 29, 2012, 08:31:42 AM
 #21

I think it's a race against the time. If bitcoin becomes accepted by millions of people, it will be hard to sue them all.
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June 29, 2012, 04:35:09 PM
 #22

I think it's a race against the time. If bitcoin becomes accepted by millions of people, it will be hard to sue them all.

I think you're probably right but bitcoin need to spread out faster than this. How to do so?

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June 29, 2012, 04:57:19 PM
 #23

I don't know. I have a feeling that he will continue to grow at this pace and one day BANG he will suddenly spread around the globe, just as, for example, Android did.
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June 29, 2012, 04:59:47 PM
 #24

I think it's a race against the time. If bitcoin becomes accepted by millions of people, it will be hard to sue them all.

I think you're probably right but bitcoin need to spread out faster than this. How to do so?

By using it every day or talking about it with friends and family, it doesn't matter if they start calling you names. Bitcoin is sound money.

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bitcats
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July 01, 2012, 12:08:03 PM
 #25

If "Bitcoin" once become illegal, we start dealing with "Bacon (Bcon)":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86276.msg949677#msg949677

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July 03, 2012, 10:18:32 PM
 #26

What will happen if bitcoin becomes illegal?

There are several levels of "bitcoin becoming illegal".

1 - Developers banned from working on the satoshi client.
2 - Distribution of satoshi client banned outright.
3 - Owning copies of satoshi client banned outright.
4 - Owning and distributing of the Chancellor block chain banned.
5 - Owning and distributing of any block chain banned.
6 - The entire Bitcoin protocol becomes illegal.
7 - ALL crytocurrency and Bitcoin-like protocols become illegal (including Namecoin, Litecoin, etc.)
8 - ALL virtual currencies and currency-like systems not approved by government become illegal.

Level 1-6 laws would not put the genie back in the bottle. People would simply work on new clients, start new blockchains, or continue paying with Namecoins or Bitcoins v2.

Level 6-8 laws would need to be extremely overreaching in order to work, and would cause a big disruption for already existing industries.

Even the banning of an entire communications protocol would be unprecedented, let alone an entire family of protocol. 

If laws become too overreaching, people start to ignore them.


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Is this kind of currency is protected by law in most of occidental countries?

Most occidental countries guarantee Freedom of Speech in their constitution. Some European countries guarantee Secrecy of Correspondence. In principle, those two should make Bitcoin safe.  In practice, governments shamelessly ignore those protections.   

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July 03, 2012, 10:25:15 PM
 #27

I always thought that simply because pgp signed messages are being passed, that the currency itself is not currency but merely free speech.  Any attack on running nodes or initiating transactions should be defended as a matter of free speech, like banning email, an attack on free speech.

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
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July 03, 2012, 10:51:30 PM
 #28

I always thought that simply because pgp signed messages are being passed, that the currency itself is not currency but merely free speech.  Any attack on running nodes or initiating transactions should be defended as a matter of free speech, like banning email, an attack on free speech.

Damn, so Atlas was right then... bitcoin is free speech

(thinking out loud here)

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July 03, 2012, 11:02:15 PM
 #29

I always thought that simply because pgp signed messages are being passed, that the currency itself is not currency but merely free speech.  Any attack on running nodes or initiating transactions should be defended as a matter of free speech, like banning email, an attack on free speech.

Damn, so Atlas was right then... bitcoin is free speech

(thinking out loud here)

Yes and when you buy coins on Mt. Gox, you are basically buying advertising.  You sponsored some code in the public ledger which is distributed to all clients.  I almost hate the concept of calling this a currency or a "coin".   Its not, its an interactive information ledger, which is modified by account holder wiht their secure logins (priv keys).  Smells more like a distributed message board than a currency. 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but by legal definition a currency is issued by an authority, no.  It either has or has not a legal tender status in the court.

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
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July 03, 2012, 11:05:55 PM
 #30

....

Correct me if i'm wrong, but by legal definition a currency is issued by an authority, no.  It either has or has not a legal tender status in the court.

From: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/currency

CURRENCY. The money which passes, at a fixed value, from hand to hand; money which is authorized by law.

And because its in Legal-Dictionary.com it must be correct, everything on the net is correct and factual afterall.  This is how the SCOTUS will vote when the case comes before them:  Mt. Gox v US Secret Service.

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July 12, 2012, 02:20:06 PM
 #31

You guys do know the difference between illegal and unlawful, don't you?


Illegal means "against or not authorized by law." Unlawful means "contrary to, prohibited, or unauthorized by law...while necessarily not implying the element of criminality, it is broad enough to include it." (Black's Law Dictionary) So, for example, you could unlawfully stay in your apartment after your lease is up (unlawful detainer) but that's not a crime against the state, it's a civil wrong (tort) against your landlord. If the landlord then took you to court and had you properly evicted, and you then returned to the premises, you might then be guilty of the crime of trespassing. Trespassing is illegal.

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July 12, 2012, 03:16:13 PM
 #32

nice article on this topic
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77591.msg862515#msg862515

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July 12, 2012, 06:24:03 PM
 #33

Awesome.

Now I have another question for you.

What happens if The Congress passes a law saying that 2+2=5 ?




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wareen
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July 12, 2012, 07:42:24 PM
 #34

What happens if The Congress passes a law saying that 2+2=5 ?
Everything would suddenly become legal (ex falso quodlibet)!

Seriously though: unlawful is also understood to mean not morally right. While usually illegal things are also unlawful and vice versa, this is certainly not always the case. The problem is of course, that moral is even more subjective than the legal system. Your understanding of unlawfulness might be vastly different from mine and while I think it's important for people to follow personal moral principles, I'm also glad we have laws which codify something like a common understanding of moral and justice of a nation's people.
Sure, both laws and morals can be used to justify great misdeeds, but I'd argue that individual morals go even more often wrong than nation's laws.

ad Bitcoin becoming illegal: not gonna happen! You will always be allowed to mine and exchange Bitcoins (what's there to forbid?) - it's the interface points to the fiat world that will become targets of increasingly strict regulations. In fact, that's what we're seeing already (stricter policies at Dwolla/Mt. Gox, the statement of the German financial supervisory authority).
If you want to know what will happen when Bitcoin becomes illegal, ask yourself what would happen if Mt. Gox was shut down - because IMHO that's about as bad as it could realistically get.
PatrickHarnett
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July 13, 2012, 05:55:13 AM
 #35

Awesome.

Now I have another question for you.

What happens if The Congress passes a law saying that 2+2=5 ?





Essentially already this has been done when the French government decreed pi = 4
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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July 13, 2012, 01:47:51 PM
 #36

It would be great if Bitcoin would become legal tender in certain US states that have also made gold legal tender. This way BTC and Gold are interchangeable.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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July 23, 2012, 01:54:04 AM
 #37

You guys do know the difference between illegal and unlawful, don't you?


Stealing is unlawful
Laundering money is illegal.


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August 04, 2012, 06:40:23 PM
 #38

I'm not worried about the government deeming bitcoin illegal.  i expect that.

i AM worried about the US gov seizing mtgox.com like they seized the poker sites.  should Gox move to a different TLD like piratebay/demonoid?

i am worried about the US gov freezing Gox's bank accounts like they froze >70 banks accounts related to PokerStars, Full Tilt, and Cereus.

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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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August 04, 2012, 08:21:55 PM
 #39

I'm not worried about the government deeming bitcoin illegal.  i expect that.

i AM worried about the US gov seizing mtgox.com like they seized the poker sites.  should Gox move to a different TLD like piratebay/demonoid?

i am worried about the US gov freezing Gox's bank accounts like they froze >70 banks accounts related to PokerStars, Full Tilt, and Cereus.

Bitcoin is math. How do you make math illegal? They can freeze all the bank accounts they want for all I care. I'm sure the banks won't care about losing the revenue from the gambling industry.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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August 04, 2012, 08:33:06 PM
 #40

Awesome.

Now I have another question for you.

What happens if The Congress passes a law saying that 2+2=5 ?





Essentially already this has been done when the French government decreed pi = 4

Lol is this true? (source please). I knew the French government was stupid, especially the latest one with their 70% income tax and plans to expropriate Total (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=tot&ql=1) but actually stating pi=4 is beyond stupid. We should invent a new word for that. 

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