Bitcoin Forum
December 03, 2016, 11:38:53 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: STOP selling bitcoin on MtGox, b/c there's virtually no way to withdraw it  (Read 14253 times)
casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1344


The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


View Profile WWW
June 28, 2012, 06:05:31 AM
 #21

This can be a difficult problem.  Many nations have AML/CTF laws which prevent "tipping off" which essentially means that you're not allowed to tell a customer that you regard a transaction as suspicious or that it's been reported as a suspicious matter.  You can ask them about the origin and the destination of the funds, but that's about it.  This becomes complicated if you go to wire money and the bank then wants enhanced KYC information on your customer.  

I don't think this means that someone can't tell a customer they sent him money, how much, on what date.

The bank is perfectly within its rights to refuse any transaction for any reason, but it can certainly refuse to process a transaction until adequate KYC information has been provided - but because of the laws against tipping off, when this situation occurs the originating FSP/MSB has to be extremely careful about what information they disclose to the customer.

I don't think this means that someone can't tell their customer that their money isn't on its way, or that they need adequate proof of identity.  The notion of "we can't send you your money because we don't know who you are, but we are also not allowed to ask you who you are because that might tip you off that the reason we can't send you your money is because we don't know who you are and we're not supposed to do that" is illogical and likely well outside the requirements of AML laws.


Transactions which have the appearance of structuring or which raise that money is being sent to fake account holders create another bureaucratic nightmare - service providers once again have to try to determine the legitimacy of the transactions without alerting the customer to any investigation (there's no actual law against dividing up transactions but they have to investigate it for possible AML activity and report it if they cannot establish legitimacy).

They can still send the money and file a SAR.  The whole point is, let the bureaucrats do the freezing of the funds and all the investigating.  Simply refusing to send the funds is inconsistent with "investigating" and more consistent with simply not having the funds to send.

Mt Gox is stuck with multiple AML/KYC requirements.  They have to create their own framework under Japanese law and comply with that.  They must also comply with the requirements of Dwolla and other payment processors and additionally they need to comply with the requirements of their banks.  These will not always mesh seamlessly as the broad principals of AML/KYC/CTF regulations are similar in FATF countries but each individual financial services provider develops their own way of implementing them.

They could also reassure us that they actually have our money, by taking steps to prove they hold BTC (signing messages with private keys) and by having audits so third party can certify they have the funds we have entrusted to them.  Even just an opinion letter from an accountant would be a cheap great start.  But they choose not to do any of this, and consistently indicate that doing so is too difficult or too expensive, which I find very difficult to believe.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480765133
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480765133

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480765133
Reply with quote  #2

1480765133
Report to moderator
1480765133
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480765133

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480765133
Reply with quote  #2

1480765133
Report to moderator
Polvos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 597



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 06:24:26 AM
 #22

When they started ignoring the Euro users I went to Intersango and never looked back. It's time for some of you to think about a change.

hoki
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 106


Say BYE to tobacco taxes and bureaucratized trade.


View Profile WWW
June 28, 2012, 07:55:50 AM
 #23

SWIFT transfers may take some time but they always arrive. I have received my last one after 18 days of waiting.

@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

http://www.cigs.eu — The Europe's leading discount cigarette shop. Worldwide shipping. Now accepting Bitcoins. Affiliates click here.
Mt.Gox Support
VIP
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 08:26:48 AM
 #24

@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your support! As I have stated, we are working on faster Deposit and withdrawals and reduces fees. However you will need to own a "Trusted Account" to be able to use this new feature.

Mt.Gox : The Leading International Bitcoin Exchange.
Mt.Gox Merchant Solutions : https://mtgox.com/merchant
flower1024
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854


luck is just a share away


View Profile
June 28, 2012, 08:29:46 AM
 #25

@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your support! As I have stated, we are working on faster Deposit and withdrawals and reduces fees. However you will need to own a "Trusted Account" to be able to use this new feature.

btw. if you want me back as a customer just provide a way to check my addresses for coins which you think are tainted (before i send you the coins of course).

i am really afraid of getting my account locked (and no: i did not rob anybody in my hole life).
Mt.Gox Support
VIP
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 09:21:23 AM
 #26

@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your support! As I have stated, we are working on faster Deposit and withdrawals and reduces fees. However you will need to own a "Trusted Account" to be able to use this new feature.

btw. if you want me back as a customer just provide a way to check my addresses for coins which you think are tainted (before i send you the coins of course).

i am really afraid of getting my account locked (and no: i did not rob anybody in my hole life).

Tainted coins are "visible" by anyone, in Bitcoinica's case for example, these coins were made public and you could check if you received or not some of them. The way it work, in the event we are ask by a company to track some coins, is that only unverified account holder maybe lock in order to check their identity. If you own a verified account you won't be locked out of your account. Anyway if no one is asking us to track some coins we will do nothing.

Mt.Gox : The Leading International Bitcoin Exchange.
Mt.Gox Merchant Solutions : https://mtgox.com/merchant
chungenhung
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
June 28, 2012, 02:25:42 PM
 #27

a user replied to me, not MtGox. Don't you think MtGox should be replying instead of relying on users to answer customer's questions?
Plus, I had no idea it is still possible, as the user posted it was completed, as in PAST tense. How am I supposed to know if it is still possible NOW without MtGox saying it explicitly?

Well it seems that you doubt whatever we said, so I thought that you would be more inclined in believing someone else experience on the forum? If Dwolla withdrawal were not possible anymore we would automatically remove this option, so far it still works.

Yes, gov likes to check into $10k transfers, but from what I gather on this forum, is that is takes a long time regardless of amount. It would be nice if MtGox came out straight and say only 5% of customers are affected and why.

Have you read this ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87086.0
No I wasn't aware of that thread. Shouldn't that info be available on mtgox.com? You cannot expect everyone to search through the forums for answers.

Trading MtGox USD for Dwolla/ACH deposit/Chase cash deposit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90115.0
Buy/Sell Call/Put Bitcoin options https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99853.0
shtylman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 243



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 03:44:38 PM
 #28

I will strongly recommend that users deal with exchanges/exchangers in their local jurisdiction before trying foreign entities. This goes for any exchange whether it be US, Europe, Australia, Japan, etc. As soon as you start moving money overseas or between countries there is a whole new set of rules to play by.
klaus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
 #29


@mtgox:

Don't lose heart! Your doin' very good job ! Never mind the trolls ... silly kidds with no job and a lot of time ... all they can do is trolling & masturbating. 

you rock bitcoin, thanks for it !     

bitmessage:BM-2D9c1oAbkVo96zDhTZ2jV6RXzQ9VG3A6f1​
threema:HXUAMT96
Raoul Duke
aka psy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 04:17:25 PM
 #30

SWIFT transfers may take some time but they always arrive. I have received my last one after 18 days of waiting.

@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

18 days? You think that's good?

I've used Bitstamp and Bitcoin-24 and got the money on my bank account in less than 48hrs in both cases. And that was because I had to wait till the next day for them to initiate the transfer Roll Eyes

You better raise your standards lol
Even an international wire(non-SEPA) shouldn't take longer than 4 business days.

pekv2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 04:56:06 PM
 #31

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.
Raoul Duke
aka psy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 05:03:54 PM
 #32

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

pekv2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 05:06:28 PM
 #33

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

I found out I got the two confused as I read your reply. Disregard my msg.
Raoul Duke
aka psy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 05:08:46 PM
 #34

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

I found out I got the two confused as I read your reply. Disregard my msg.

You shouldn't come to the forums and post while drunk, you know? Grin

pekv2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 05:10:48 PM
 #35

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

I found out I got the two confused as I read your reply. Disregard my msg.

You shouldn't come to the forums and post while drunk, you know? Grin

Lolz, nah, I don't drink :p, not my thing. Involves to much trouble.
casascius
Mike Caldwell
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1344


The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


View Profile WWW
June 28, 2012, 05:20:05 PM
 #36


@mtgox:
...Never mind the trolls ... silly kidds with no job and a lot of time ... all they can do is trolling & masturbating.  

You know, I still carry my MtGox-branded Yubikey with me everywhere I go, as a sense of pride and membership in the Bitcoin community, like it were a "challenge coin", even though I haven't used it lately.  Nearly all of the BTC I own, I acquired via MtGox.  I don't think that I ring the bell on MtGox just for my own personal entertainment or self-satisfaction.  It saddens me to even feel a responsibility to point out that I suspect there's problems over there.  I honestly hope there's no problems, but I see no reason they can't make a minimal effort to prove there's none instead of putting all their effort into excuses.  I secretly hope that MtGox has its own nest egg of BTC, so when the price shoots into the stratosphere and brings them a windfall, that they can successfully pretend that the ship was smooth sailing the whole time.  If MtGox told us, "We're doubling our price from 0.6% to 1.2% since that's what it takes to cover our cost of doing business", I would be happy for them and would be the last to "troll" them for it, because I want them to succeed as a sustainable business.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
klaus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 05:36:17 PM
 #37


You know, I still carry my MtGox-branded Yubikey with me everywhere I go, as a sense of pride and membership in the Bitcoin community, like it were a "challenge coin", even though I haven't used it lately.  Nearly all of the BTC I own, I acquired via MtGox.  I don't think that I ring the bell on MtGox just for my own personal entertainment or self-satisfaction.  It saddens me to even feel a responsibility to point out that I suspect there's problems over there.  I honestly hope there's no problems, but I see no reason they can't make a minimal effort to prove there's none instead of putting all their effort into excuses.  I secretly hope that MtGox has its own nest egg of BTC, so when the price shoots into the stratosphere and brings them a windfall, that they can successfully pretend that the ship was smooth sailing the whole time.  If MtGox told us, "We're doubling our price from 0.6% to 1.2% since that's what it takes to cover our cost of doing business", I would be happy for them and would be the last to "troll" them for it, because I want them to succeed as a sustainable business.


+1, so true.


You know, I still carry my MtGox-branded Yubikey with me everywhere I go, as a sense of pride and membership in the Bitcoin community


same same here, at my bunch of keys Wink

bitmessage:BM-2D9c1oAbkVo96zDhTZ2jV6RXzQ9VG3A6f1​
threema:HXUAMT96
coga
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 226


www.btcbuy.info


View Profile WWW
June 28, 2012, 07:19:00 PM
 #38

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

I found out I got the two confused as I read your reply. Disregard my msg.

You shouldn't come to the forums and post while drunk, you know? Grin

Lolz, nah, I don't drink :p, not my thing. Involves to much trouble.

Then whatever you were smoking, I want some of it Wink

GPG key: 6F8E305690A05365B58C50A
opticbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 676


PGP: 6EBEBCE1E0507C38


View Profile WWW
June 28, 2012, 07:41:37 PM
 #39

mtgox redeem code, cash out to some other exchange, and cash that out however you like.

Set up the same thing..
http://bit.ly/btcrefs
Get more bitcoins.
pekv2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770



View Profile
June 28, 2012, 07:45:16 PM
 #40

Oh there is a gtgox support roaming around?

Well, then dood [gtgox-support], hop over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90429.msg996287 and fix the problem.

What does Mtgox have to do with GLBSE, mind telling us?

I found out I got the two confused as I read your reply. Disregard my msg.

You shouldn't come to the forums and post while drunk, you know? Grin

Lolz, nah, I don't drink :p, not my thing. Involves to much trouble.

Then whatever you were smoking, I want some of it Wink

Natural adrenaline taking over, over the buying share problem over at glbse.
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!