[Advice] 0% Pool Fee, Should we open a new pool?

[BitcoinChick86]

Hi All,

My partner has been into Bitcoins for almost 2 years. Not a currently a member here as he is pretty forum-shy.

We were speaking last night about setting up a Bitcoin Pool with a 0% Fee. Has this already been done? He mostly mines altcoins now due to having a GPU Rig.

Our only problem is, Would people use it? Would YOU use it? What sort of Pool would be best? PPS/PPLNS?

We are both major fans of the Bitcoin Cryptocurrency and want to give something back to the community.

Thanks for any Advice you can give us both.

BC86

[1714055890]

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[1714055890]

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[1714055890]

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[1714055890]

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[aurel57]

Hi All,

My partner has been into Bitcoins for almost 2 years. Not a currently a member here as he is pretty forum-shy.

We were speaking last night about setting up a Bitcoin Pool with a 0% Fee. Has this already been done? He mostly mines altcoins now due to having a GPU Rig.

Our only problem is, Would people use it? Would YOU use it? What sort of Pool would be best? PPS/PPLNS?

We are both major fans of the Bitcoin Cryptocurrency and want to give something back to the community.

Thanks for any Advice you can give us both.

BC86

Sorry but if your having to ask these questions you have no business thinking about it.

[PatMan]

Sorry but if your having to ask these questions you have no business thinking about it.

Why would anyone say that 

@ BitcoinChick86,

Seasons greetings & welcome to the (usually) friendly Bitcoin community 

In your case, I would recommend setting up your own public p2pool node, that way, you can set your own fee & you will be helping to decentralise & secure the Bitcoin network. There are a few easy to follow guides available on this very forum that make the set-up a doddle - and it's a great way to learn also. If you need any help, just ask in the p2pool thread 

Good luck!

[aurel57]

Sorry but if your having to ask these questions you have no business thinking about it.

Why would anyone say that  

 I would think anybody that was serious would have not been to lazy, to at first take a couple of hours and look at the forum for the answers to such questions...
(It also seems these forums are not "friendly" to 0% fee PPS pools)

My partner has been into Bitcoins for almost 2 years. Not a currently a member here as he is pretty forum-shy.

We were speaking last night about setting up a Bitcoin Pool with a 0% Fee. Has this already been done? He mostly mines altcoins now due to having a GPU Rig.

Our only problem is, Would people use it? Would YOU use it? What sort of Pool would be best? PPS/PPLNS?

We are both major fans of the Bitcoin Cryptocurrency and want to give something back to the community.

[cyberpinoy]

Deciding on the kind of pool PPS or PPLNS, depends on what kind of person you are.

If you want to be fair to yourself and the members mining in your pool you will want a PPS and more hashing power than any other member so you can make money as well. (you will need a lot more than a GPU rig) You take your hashing power and split it up 25% for the pool itself and 75% for you. that way the pool has an income of 25% of your mining potential. I advise if you decide to go PPS you should have a minimum of 2 PHS of mining power dedicated for your own pool.

If you want to be a greedy profit hog you can do the PPLNS pool. PPLNS pools even ones that say 0% fee makes a lot more than they are willing to admit to anyone. they are the most profitable mining pools in existence, if they were not hugely profitable pools sites like CEX would not use them To be honest no one would use them. if you watched the pools and all the history of mining pools you will see it was a mojnkey see monkey do research and development experiment. they started out as PPS, and tried PPP (paid per porpotion) then along comes this new PPLNS system with a calculation that confuses even rocket scientists. And the more pools that tried it the more pool owners realized how much profit really was in a PPLNS pool. A PPLNS pool also gives the owner the ability to have absolutely no mining hardware at all and still make a fortune on his pool. The bottom line about a PPLNS pool is its a pool that keeps people from making good enough profits to use the ROI and gt more equipment, (This is now an opinion of mine) I think after all the research the big time pools realized a good PPS system makes it easy for people to make a good ROI which would lead to them getting enough equipment to open their own pool or start solomining. ASt tha time they had 1% to 5% fees to mine in a pool, so they came up with this PPLNS system that guarantees the pool owners make a HUGE profit compared to the miners mining there.


So if your 2 choices are PPS or PPLNS the decision is simple do you want to be fair and ethical and work hard with a good investment PPS, do you want to be a btc hungry, greedy unethical pool like most others out there PPLNS.

Also welcome to the forum please ignore responses like Aurel, to answer you like he did was a bit rude and just not nice on his part, maybe he does not understand the purpose of forums is to help others understand things they are confused about. To aid people when they are in need and help us all progress forward as a group. His answer was both rude and absolutely useless as well as off-topic. Altho some of your questions could easily been answered, i dont think his response was the best way to approach you as a new member and all.

[aclass]

There are pools with 0% fee. Just look around in this part of the forum. If you make the pool good enough, ppl might join, but don't count on it if you and your partner are brand new in the industry without any reputation. Most miners have been burnt so we are very careful in selecting a pool.

Deciding on the kind of pool PPS or PPLNS, depends on what kind of person you are.

If you want to be fair to yourself and the members mining in your pool you will want a PPS and more hashing power than any other member so you can make money as well. (you will need a lot more than a GPU rig) You take your hashing power and split it up 25% for the pool itself and 75% for you. that way the pool has an income of 25% of your mining potential. I advise if you decide to go PPS you should have a minimum of 2 PHS of mining power dedicated for your own pool.

If you want to be a greedy profit hog you can do the PPLNS pool. PPLNS pools even ones that say 0% fee makes a lot more than they are willing to admit to anyone. they are the most profitable mining pools in existence, if they were not hugely profitable pools sites like CEX would not use them To be honest no one would use them. if you watched the pools and all the history of mining pools you will see it was a mojnkey see monkey do research and development experiment. they started out as PPS, and tried PPP (paid per porpotion) then along comes this new PPLNS system with a calculation that confuses even rocket scientists. And the more pools that tried it the more pool owners realized how much profit really was in a PPLNS pool. A PPLNS pool also gives the owner the ability to have absolutely no mining hardware at all and still make a fortune on his pool. The bottom line about a PPLNS pool is its a pool that keeps people from making good enough profits to use the ROI and gt more equipment, (This is now an opinion of mine) I think after all the research the big time pools realized a good PPS system makes it easy for people to make a good ROI which would lead to them getting enough equipment to open their own pool or start solomining. ASt tha time they had 1% to 5% fees to mine in a pool, so they came up with this PPLNS system that guarantees the pool owners make a HUGE profit compared to the miners mining there.


So if your 2 choices are PPS or PPLNS the decision is simple do you want to be fair and ethical and work hard with a good investment PPS, do you want to be a btc hungry, greedy unethical pool like most others out there PPLNS.

Also welcome to the forum please ignore responses like Aurel, to answer you like he did was a bit rude and just not nice on his part, maybe he does not understand the purpose of forums is to help others understand things they are confused about. To aid people when they are in need and help us all progress forward as a group. His answer was both rude and absolutely useless as well as off-topic. Altho some of your questions could easily been answered, i dont think his response was the best way to approach you as a new member and all.

So you just decided to bash on PPLNS without any real information. Just repeating the same thing over and over again. Pure waste.

[MrGreenHat]

So you just decided to bash on PPLNS without any real information. Just repeating the same thing over and over again. Pure waste.

Yeah, cyberpinoy does that a lot. Pretty sure he made a typo when creating his username, accidentally typed a pi instead of an.

[cathoderay]

So you just decided to bash on PPLNS without any real information. Just repeating the same thing over and over again. Pure waste.

Yeah, cyberpinoy does that a lot. Pretty sure he made a typo when creating his username, accidentally typed a pi instead of an.

He's another s0br alias from BAN me thinks

[DrHaribo]

Disregard everything cyberpinoy is saying. CEX is a cloud mining service with huge maintenance fees. Certainly not a zero fee PPLNS pool, or any other kind of mining pool. It's not a pool.

[kano]

Actually, more to the point is that what cyberpinoy has posted about PPLNS is completely false.

I'm not sure if he's just mathematically challenged, delusional, or plain simply lying to try to scare the uninformed away from pools using PPLNS.

[PatMan]

Actually, more to the point is that what cyberpinoy has posted about PPLNS is completely false.

I'm not sure if he's just mathematically challenged, delusional, or plain simply lying to try to scare the uninformed away from pools using PPLNS.

All of the above......

[cyberpinoy]

So you just decided to bash on PPLNS without any real information. Just repeating the same thing over and over again. Pure waste.

No all my information is real and absolutely tru try doing some real math

Yeah, cyberpinoy does that a lot. Pretty sure he made a typo when creating his username, accidentally typed a pi instead of an.

You are a complete idiot, if you did absolutely any research at all to back anything you say up, you would realize I did not spell Pinoy wrong. But thanks for showing how uneducated your responses are.

He's another s0br alias from BAN me thinks

My account is not in any way connected to s0br I do not even know the gentleman, But i can say I would take his advice over any one of you that have posted in this thread. his information is tested, he is trustworthy, he is not greedy, and his information is neither selfish nor covering a hidden agenda.

Disregard everything cyberpinoy is saying. CEX is a cloud mining service with huge maintenance fees. Certainly not a zero fee PPLNS pool, or any other kind of mining pool. It's not a pool.

For a person who calls himself Doctor, this person here is quite ewww how can I say it, a moron, CEX is a trading platform where they trade a lot including cloud mining which is mined on their connected sister site GHASH.io, the fact is Ghash.io is Cex.io and cex.io is Ghash.io, they are one and the same. So his complete post is both false, uneducated, and unresearched.

Actually, more to the point is that what cyberpinoy has posted about PPLNS is completely false.

I'm not sure if he's just mathematically challenged, delusional, or plain simply lying to try to scare the uninformed away from pools using PPLNS.

And the king, Mr kano the pool operator who fills his pocket with the BTC profits from his already horrible but existing PPLNS crap pool, and doesn't want ANYONE to believe hes making a profit. Math isd math Kano and no matter how you would like people to believe PPLNS pools are not profit houses and try and deter others from having any kind of profitable pool to compete with you will not work when a person just sits down and calculates the math. Your pathetic attempts to discredit, and destroy others , and mislead new members of this forum is just ridiculous. I pray one of your christmas presents was a clue or 2. A clue on how to run an ethical pool, a clue on how to manage a profitable pool. and cluee how to not be such an unethical person when conducting business.


To the OP, with as mu7ch as all of these posts I have quoted in this thread blame others for being secondary aliases It would not surprise me one bit itf they were not all connected themselves, the clan you see quoted here in this post are the veterans you can listen to but take nothing they say to heart. some information they have is usefull, but a lot of what they bsay all over this forum is a huge selfish deterrent to new users, or even worse advice to direct you away form your goals so you will do something for them to help them make a huge profit while you are held back. Take nothing they say as truth investigate it.

That goes the same for my advice dont take my word for it, research it also for yourself. Dont ever take anyones advice on Bitcointalk ALWAYS research everything you read here. I used to just take the veterans lies and bullshit as truth until one day I began my own tests, and trials with my own equipment and then realized 90% of what 50 % of the veterans say here is just a bunch of bullshit to mislead you to go in a different direction.  


A PPLNS system pays you for a certain amount of time put in on a block only, In not sure what kanos profit house shifts come to I haven't been there in a while, But Cex/Ghash pay for 11 shifts ranging form 9 minutes to 11 minutes per shift, and include X amount of shares they payout at X amount of BTC per share. however if they pay for only the last 1.5 hours of a block and it takes 2 to 3 hours a block to solve you put in a massive amount of shares yet get paid for only 1/2 to 1/4 of the work you put in. Then the payout is not even 1 whole satoshi per share, like Ghash.io they pay 0.0000000003 BTC per share on the last 1.5 hours of work provided.

So you take how many shares are put in in the last 1.5 hours per THS
multiply that by how many THS are pointed at that pool,
this gives you the amount of shares provided
you then multiply that amount by 0.0000000003 (or whatever they are paying per share)
 which gives you exactly how much a pool pays for their members provided shares
and subtract that from 25 and you have the profit for that block.

I just pulled this data from CEX.io/Ghash.io

258786595592 total shares provided for 6 hours to solve this block

7500042240 shares on a paid shift for the block to all miners combined together in the whole pool (

0.0000000003589 paid per share provided on shift

0.0000000003589 times 7500042240 = 2.691765159936

this PPLNS pool paid 2.691765159936 for this block that took 6 hours to solve

and then shortly after the 6 hour block they had

170171296678 total shares provided for 4 hours to solve this block

7500003023 shares on a paid shift for the block

0.0000000003589 paid per share provided on shift

0.0000000003589 times 7500003023 = 2.6917510849547

this PPLNS pool paid 2.6917510849547 for this block that took 4 hours to solve

So you see the it does not matter how much work is provided by the members the payout for a PPLNS pool is ALWAYS the same and CEX.io reaps a 22BTC+ profit per block for their PPLNS pools. Trust me Kanos pool is not much different, depending on what he pays per submitted share, and how long his shifts really are but if his payout is lower than 1 to 10 Satoshi per share, and his shifts are less than 24 hours hes banking BTC

Kano and his groupies can deny this shit all day every day (EXACTLY as I warned you they would in my first post) (And you noticed all the groupie false hope posters flew in like a bunch of bees to a beautiful rose) but the bottom line at the end of the day basic elementary math does not lie, You dont need a complex PPLNS bullshit equation they tell you to solve the profit margin of a PPLNS pool.

[eleuthria]

If only it was possible to ban somebody for repeated incidents of complete stupidity...

cyberpinoy:  Your own "proof" shows how ignorant you are you are.  SHIFTS DO NOT EQUAL BLOCK SOLVES.  A shift can be paid for MANY block solves.  Additionally, a block solve is paid to MANY SHIFTS!  On GHash.io, a block solve is split among TEN shifts, the shares in each of those shifts getting paid.



If you don't understand how something works, shut the fuck up or learn how it works.  Don't spread bullshit and constantly attempt to refute people who actually know how shit works.



EDIT:  The fact that you're calling PPLNS an "equation" similarly shows you're fucking clueless.  It's not an equation.  It's a process.

Shares are submitted.  Shares are grouped into shifts to make accounting easy to calculate AND easy to audit for a user that knows what they're doing [maybe not applicable to GHash since their history/stats are garbage].  A block eventually gets solved.  The payment for that block (minus any pool fee if applicable) is split among the open shifts.


EDIT2:  Maybe your problem is that your only exposure to PPLNS is GHash, which has one of the worst presentations of PPLNS, with no ability to dig into shift details and see which blocks paid into which shifts.

[DrHaribo]

OMG. Epic face palm.

What Eleuthria said.

[kano]

...
Kano and his groupies can deny this shit all day every day (EXACTLY as I warned you they would in my first post) (And you noticed all the groupie false hope posters flew in like a bunch of bees to a beautiful rose) but the bottom line at the end of the day basic elementary math does not lie, You dont need a complex PPLNS bullshit equation they tell you to solve the profit margin of a PPLNS pool.

PPLNS no complexity involved at all (except for the mathematically challenged)
Every single block my pool finds is here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1KzFJddTvK9TQWsmWFKYJ9fRx9QeSATyrT

The "No Inputs (Newly Generated Coins)" are the blocks coming in
and every single one sends to 2 addresses: an address for miners (99.1%) and an address for ckolivas and myself (0.9%)

and in that same link you see the miner input address going to the payouts to all the miners directly.
i.e. from 1KzFJddTvK9TQWsmWFKYJ9fRx9QeSATyrT

All very clear, all very simple and all very easy to check the numbers.

Actually, more to the point is that what cyberpinoy has posted about PPLNS is completely false.

I'm not sure if he's just mathematically challenged, delusional, or plain simply lying to try to scare the uninformed away from pools using PPLNS.

All of the above......

Yeah, I think "all 3" sounds ever so accurate.

[aurel57]

...
Kano and his groupies can deny this shit all day every day (EXACTLY as I warned you they would in my first post) (And you noticed all the groupie false hope posters flew in like a bunch of bees to a beautiful rose) but the bottom line at the end of the day basic elementary math does not lie, You dont need a complex PPLNS bullshit equation they tell you to solve the profit margin of a PPLNS pool.

PPLNS no complexity involved at all (except for the mathematically challenged)
Every single block my pool finds is here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1KzFJddTvK9TQWsmWFKYJ9fRx9QeSATyrT

The "No Inputs (Newly Generated Coins)" are the blocks coming in
and every single one sends to 2 addresses: an address for miners (99.1%) and an address for ckolivas and myself (0.9%)

and in that same link you see the miner input address going to the payouts to all the miners directly.
i.e. from 1KzFJddTvK9TQWsmWFKYJ9fRx9QeSATyrT

All very clear, all very simple and all very easy to check the numbers.

Actually, more to the point is that what cyberpinoy has posted about PPLNS is completely false.

I'm not sure if he's just mathematically challenged, delusional, or plain simply lying to try to scare the uninformed away from pools using PPLNS.

All of the above......

Yeah, I think "all 3" sounds ever so accurate.

I am thinking its more the first two with him thinking its he is doing others a favor by doing #3. But its hard to think that if he had mined at any of the pools in questioned he would have found out he was wrong? About the only pool payout system  that really confuses me is Eligius. 

[cyberpinoy]

you notice how these "experts " jump around compare things we say to nothing of value. Take your posts and try and use it against the information provided. The "shifts" mentioned in my post were every single share that was paid for all the provided N shares submitted. Meaning each and every share they paid out to all the members of thier pool.

If you actually used your dumb eyes and read you would have seen both of the examples were both realtime examples pulled directly from GHASh.io site and one was a 6 hour block and the other was a 4 hour block which means every single shift used in their 11 shifts they use for the N in the PPLNS is used to payout on those  2 blocks.

So eleuthria your own post where you didn't even read the whole example shows you didnt even attempt to read what I provided, you just jumped in without reading and posted to back up your friends. Try reading a post before you make a reply Dumb ass.

your power in numbers as a clan neither scares me nor will it make the numbers lie, just because you are all arrogant idiots does not make basic math wrong, it makes you stupid for continuing to try.

I know exactly what i am talking about, the problem is this little group of uneducated, want to seem to know everything, and if 1 single person dares challenge you the best you can try and do is try and make them look stupid. your PPLNS pool calculations is bullshit, its a rip off to its miners and a profit house to the owners that is the bottom line here.

I was born at night but it most certainly was not last night, and your bullshit you pull is not sucking me in, my job is to inform people of what is correct and true, because they deserve to know what is really going on behind the fabricated math equations you all throw at us.

we can argue and play games all day every day, you can cuss and be moronic all you want, but at the end of the day basic elementary math does not lie.

X shares submitted
x shares actually paid for
X BTC earned
minus X BTC paid out to members
= PPLNS PROFIT HOUSE

Pure and simple those are the facts, so all you "vets" who want to seem like experts and crawl out of your rocks not to help others but either to point them to your partners and your own profit houses, can take your math, take you advice and crawl back under your rock of ignorance and stay there. Because I will not accept your lies I did the math the way it should be done...CORRECTLY!!!

why do i never see you guys posting this much on threads where a new person is asking about help with config files for mining software, or help with how to solo mine coins, or help to code a new pool website, or help to understand things that they dont that you should?  Why do you seem to only troll on threads and against those who threaten your unethical way of life ir you or your friends pools? I mean seriously as friends of the great programmer and experts in the industry it would have taken you just a few minutes to answer a question about config files, and solo mining, but you never address those kinds of threads, only ones where you think you can pound you unethical actin and ignorant useless calculations based on stupidity onto others and try and force them to see your way of ignorance. Stop the bullshit try helping others for a change instead of trying to make them help you fill your pcokets.

[DrHaribo]

If you think most pools are scamming their miners and pocketing 40% of the mining income, and that you are the only person smart enough to realize what's going on.... chances are that you misunderstood something.

[kano]

Sigh, no he is unable to disassociate ghash.io from every other pool on the network.
Apparently coz ghash charges everyone a fortune on their cloud mining, that means every PPLNS pool does also.
This is the 'delusional' option.

Item 2:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional?s=t