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Author Topic: The Definition of Cash  (Read 1811 times)
Window2Wall
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December 30, 2014, 04:53:43 AM
 #21

You forgot the "physical" part. Money at a bank account isn't cash at all, cash is something you can hold in your hand.
If you travel to North Africa, there are small towns without a single ATM, nor a single shop which accepts checks or credit cards. So if you don't have real cash there, physical cash, you just die.

This is true. Cash is generally considered to be any form of money that is a bearer instrument, usually in paper form (although technically coins are still cash, but may not be referred to as cash)
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December 30, 2014, 06:04:57 AM
 #22


Your spirit guide.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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December 30, 2014, 01:49:01 PM
 #23

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Monero is definitely "more cash", when people think about cash they think about what we all know. There is a lot of effort being put into washing Bitcoins, if you sold your weed or whatever with Monero, you wouldn't need to invest in washing methods and potentially get scammed. It's unfortunate that people don't get the potential of Monero. Both BTC and Monero have its own uses.
So you think the privacy of the exchange medium define the "cashness".
Which might make sense, because without privacy a third party might impose his approbation on the exchange between two peers. (by threatening them)
"exchange without third party approval" seems to be the same as "privacy", I don't see any example about one without the other can be possible, so it makes sense.

You forgot the "physical" part. Money at a bank account isn't cash at all, cash is something you can hold in your hand.
If you travel to North Africa, there are small towns without a single ATM, nor a single shop which accepts checks or credit cards. So if you don't have real cash there, physical cash, you just die.

This is true. Cash is generally considered to be any form of money that is a bearer instrument, usually in paper form (although technically coins are still cash, but may not be referred to as cash)

Physical money is not the same as a general bearer instrument though. Bitcoin is a bearer instrument, but is not necessarily physical... Thing that did not exist before. (but you can always print keys on paper)
So cash would be synonym with "bearer instrument", which make sense. I wonder if company's shares to the bearer or bearer bonds were considered cash though, it should have been.

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Not being physical, BTC isn't cash.

This is interesting to see that Window2Wall and countryfree seems to agree when you are both using two different definitions.
Window2Wall use "bearer instrument" definition (definition 2)
You are using "physical" definition (definition 1)

Like I said, I think the problem is that bitcoin is at the same time bearer instrument and non physical. This never happened before.

Bitcoin address 15sYbVpRh6dyWycZMwPdxJWD4xbfxReeHe
Window2Wall
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December 31, 2014, 04:10:45 AM
 #24

You forgot the "physical" part. Money at a bank account isn't cash at all, cash is something you can hold in your hand.
If you travel to North Africa, there are small towns without a single ATM, nor a single shop which accepts checks or credit cards. So if you don't have real cash there, physical cash, you just die.

This is true. Cash is generally considered to be any form of money that is a bearer instrument, usually in paper form (although technically coins are still cash, but may not be referred to as cash)

Physical money is not the same as a general bearer instrument though. Bitcoin is a bearer instrument, but is not necessarily physical... Thing that did not exist before. (but you can always print keys on paper)
So cash would be synonym with "bearer instrument", which make sense. I wonder if company's shares to the bearer or bearer bonds were considered cash though, it should have been.
Bitcoin is not a bearer instrument. It would be possible for two people to control the private key to an address that contains unspent inputs (this is a very bad security practice). To say that anyone that is in "possession" of a private key has that amount of "cash" then it would be possible for the entire population to have more then 21mm bitcoin.

In order for something to be in bearer form it needs to be physical, otherwise some authority would need to keep track of who is in possession of the instrument, and therefore it would not be a bearer instrument.

A bearer instrument is something that can be transferred to one person to the next without any record of the transfer and that only one person can be in control of the instrument at a time (although duel control is allowed)
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December 31, 2014, 10:51:11 AM
 #25

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Bitcoin is not a bearer instrument. It would be possible for two people to control the private key to an address that contains unspent inputs (this is a very bad security practice). To say that anyone that is in "possession" of a private key has that amount of "cash" then it would be possible for the entire population to have more then 21mm bitcoin.

In order for something to be in bearer form it needs to be physical, otherwise some authority would need to keep track of who is in possession of the instrument, and therefore it would not be a bearer instrument.

A bearer instrument is something that can be transferred to one person to the next without any record of the transfer and that only one person can be in control of the instrument at a time (although duel control is allowed)

If 2 persons knows the private key, you consider that both are owning the coins (as a 1-2 multi sig). You can't duplicate coins.
I think that the forms of the asset (digital or physical) is of no importance to consider it a bearer instrument.

I think a bitcoin fulfill your definition pretty well "can be transferred to one person to the next without any record of the transfer and that only one person can be in control of the instrument at a time (although duel control is allowed)".
Even if we can argue on the "any record" part.
What is sure is whoever bears the private key can redeem its coins against goods and services, which is the function of a bearer instrument.

Bitcoin address 15sYbVpRh6dyWycZMwPdxJWD4xbfxReeHe
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December 31, 2014, 08:54:33 PM
 #26

Cash is an outdated word. I see people transferring money from their savings account to their spending account on the fly with a smartphone, to buy a damn sandwich with their card.
If that is not cash, u tell me.

Paying with a credit card is paying with money, but it's not paying with cash. Cash is simply the most liquid form of money. In other words, all cash is money, but not all money is cash.

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