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Author Topic: What is the best way to destroy bitcoin?  (Read 4560 times)
notme
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June 30, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
 #41

That's very dishonest when you look at how many demand orders currently stand on all the exchange combined compared to all the other options for acquiring bitcoins. Removing all this demand would instantly crash the price but also remove some of it's usefulness gained through the current low barrier to entry.

It's dishonest to say a plausible theory about a potential future event is dishonest because you have no way of knowing the truth.

Supply will also fall as people will be unwilling to move to fiat if they can't move back just as easily.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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hazek
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June 30, 2012, 09:20:28 PM
 #42

Wrong again, supply would increase since people wont want to get stuck with an illiquid currency that they can't use to pay their bills. You'd only be right if bitcoin acceptance grows to the point where using them you could do virtually all of your transactions in the marketplace you typically need to or want to do. But since the attack I outlined is legislation forbidding businesses from using it this is highly unlikely the scenario to actually play out.

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June 30, 2012, 09:22:00 PM
 #43

hazek is right, most of Bitcoin's value derives from its convertability with fiat money exchanges. If this goes, so does lots of its value as well as usefulness.

The comparison with alcohol or other drugs is idiotic because these goods' value derives from its consumption, not from convertibility with anything. Therefore, when production cost rises due to legislation, the price in the longer term will have to rise too, or else it cannot be profitable to produce.

Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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June 30, 2012, 09:36:47 PM
 #44

Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

I like economically illiterate better Tongue and this goes for most people alive, like 99% (% pun intended  Grin)

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June 30, 2012, 10:01:57 PM
 #45

Bitcoiners are quite stupid economically ignorant for the most part.

I like economically illiterate better Tongue and this goes for most people alive, like 99% (% pun intended  Grin)
Much better term, thanks. Just surprises me when such fallacies come from Bitcoin advocates.

Personally, if Bitcoins were not freely convertible like they are today and it could only be done at higher costs plus anonymously via shady avenues, the usefulness of Bitcoins to me would shrink enormously.

If a government has a problem with Bitcoin, MtGox will be target #1.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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June 30, 2012, 10:17:46 PM
 #46

Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP (as DVDs can't store hundreds of GB of important data).I always thought that flash drives (solid state storage) would be the first to be fried. :/ I hope I'm wrong on that one.I'd also like my wallet to be safe as well.Any help is appreciated on this.Thanks.

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June 30, 2012, 10:29:15 PM
 #47

Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

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June 30, 2012, 11:00:54 PM
 #48

Home Made faraday cages ftw.

TL;DR  Cheap galv steel can, line inside with some sort of elec insulator, lid, bottom and inner sides. Raise bottom with an insulator by a few more inches. Fill with your electronic goodies. Grounding is optional though imho it is better. Just drive a large iron stake into the ground and wrap a nice piece of large guage copper wire around it and the can, coat it real good with some corrision resistant electrolitic gel and you're good to go.  Lot of decent Tube vids on it if anyone is interested.

cheers

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June 30, 2012, 11:02:23 PM
 #49

Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

Didn't see one, but i'm sure some devices encased in Permalloy or Mu-metal exist out there. The DIY solution would be wrapping the thumb drive with tinfoil, without touching the usb connector, and ground it somehow.

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June 30, 2012, 11:41:14 PM
 #50

Keeping backups on CD's here and heard some usb pen drives have extra shielding that help withstand a magnetic pulse.

What pen drives are these as I'd like to protect all my data from an EMP

If there are EMPs occurring, the resilient pen drives will be worth far more than the resultant value of any bitcoins after that event occurs.  (If for no other reason than the gold content of the electronics inside ... :-) )

Didn't see one, but i'm sure some devices encased in Permalloy or Mu-metal exist out there. The DIY solution would be wrapping the thumb drive with tinfoil, without touching the usb connector, and ground it somehow.

aye, place a small rubber cover over the connector and this idea should work.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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July 01, 2012, 08:52:58 AM
 #51

Best way to destroy bitcoin:

Refuse to trade with it, mine it and do nothing else other than sell your gains

Agreed!

I've opened a thread on how we best strengthen Bitcoin (= get more real Bitcoin economy going)
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90973.0

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July 01, 2012, 09:14:02 AM
 #52

buy all the coins
delete wallet!

wait no that wont work  Cheesy

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July 01, 2012, 05:08:39 PM
 #53

As for Bitcoin, despite the proof of work, it still has no intrinsic or legal value.  Its value as an economy is 99+% conversion to fiat and <1% buying btc-related items, plus the random Lada or two on the Russian forum.  As you say, it's only a value store if it can be converted.

In my thoughts regarding elimination of 2-3 points of concentration of this activity, Gox would definitely be the most visible and most immediately disruptive.  Given the captive nature of fiat currency in that system, one could eliminate much of the popular "wealth" in about ninety seconds.

Pollyanna would assert that the divisibility of btc would merely shift the decimal point after such a catastrophe, but there is no traditional economy upon which to base the value of BTC.  Every government that has followed this path has been declared a 'failed economy'.
Indeed. I keep hearing about a "Bitcoin economy", while in reality, this is simply not the case, similarly to it being a "currency". Bitcoins are first and foremost a speculative asset and only secondarily a sort of intermediary for fiat on both sides (see Silk Road), while the quoted prices are typically from MtGox, and updated live. Your Bitcoins have no (or very little) actual value besides the fiat value attributed to it via exchanges.

Now, for the event these exchanges fall, we have a huge problem: As long as there are no relatively popular goods/services actually providing a "backing" for BTC by setting sticky prices (which they adhere to), no arbitrage can occur from the fiat world to raise the Bitcoin value and set a floor, since buying in Bitcoins would be cheaper if their price goes down. Furthermore, to have any sort of economy, the majority of market participants need to receive their wages in Bitcoins, not fiat money.

I know this is nearly impossible to change since there is simply no Bitcoin nation, society or even village, and because Bitcoin excels only in internet transactions, but it amazes me when people hype stuff like Bit-Pay's recent spike in transactions due to BFL sales and a "major" Euro flight into Bitcoins as if it were indicative of any sort of economy.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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July 01, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
 #54

ASIC... (sorry, I do not speak English ..) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30775.msg989113#msg989113   and the rest of the text ..

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July 01, 2012, 05:58:25 PM
 #55

As for Bitcoin, despite the proof of work, it still has no intrinsic or legal value.  Its value as an economy is 99+% conversion to fiat and <1% buying btc-related items, plus the random Lada or two on the Russian forum.  As you say, it's only a value store if it can be converted.

In my thoughts regarding elimination of 2-3 points of concentration of this activity, Gox would definitely be the most visible and most immediately disruptive.  Given the captive nature of fiat currency in that system, one could eliminate much of the popular "wealth" in about ninety seconds.

Pollyanna would assert that the divisibility of btc would merely shift the decimal point after such a catastrophe, but there is no traditional economy upon which to base the value of BTC.  Every government that has followed this path has been declared a 'failed economy'.
Indeed. I keep hearing about a "Bitcoin economy", while in reality, this is simply not the case, similarly to it being a "currency". Bitcoins are first and foremost a speculative asset and only secondarily a sort of intermediary for fiat on both sides (see Silk Road), while the quoted prices are typically from MtGox, and updated live. Your Bitcoins have no (or very little) actual value besides the fiat value attributed to it via exchanges.

Now, for the event these exchanges fall, we have a huge problem: As long as there are no relatively popular goods/services actually providing a "backing" for BTC by setting sticky prices (which they adhere to), no arbitrage can occur from the fiat world to raise the Bitcoin value and set a floor, since buying in Bitcoins would be cheaper if their price goes down. Furthermore, to have any sort of economy, the majority of market participants need to receive their wages in Bitcoins, not fiat money.

I know this is nearly impossible to change since there is simply no Bitcoin nation, society or even village, and because Bitcoin excels only in internet transactions, but it amazes me when people hype stuff like Bit-Pay's recent spike in transactions due to BFL sales and a "major" Euro flight into Bitcoins as if it were indicative of any sort of economy.

Why would all the exchanges fall at once?

Also, I've received wages in Bitcoin.

Naysay all you want.  In the mean time others are creating this economy, and we don't even mind if your speculative bets benefit.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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niko
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July 03, 2012, 06:37:38 PM
 #56

I take "destroy" to mean a near-zero market-cap and no real use of Bitcoin. Legislation and other forms of suppression can't achieve that, though they would drive the price down.

1. The most likely way Bitcoin could be destroyed would be the release and adoption of a superior protocol that serves the same purposes as Bitcoin. I'd put the probability of this happening in the next five years at over 10%.

2. Some emergent behavior of mining incentives makes it easier for some entity to control the block chain. Maybe mining pools get huge. Maybe mining gets taken over by specialized hardware.

3. Some cryptographic flaw in the protocol is discovered. (Seems very unlikely at this point.)

History shows making things illegal makes their price go up, not down.

That's a bit of an ignorant observation to the demand side of the supply/demand equation that determines a price. It's a hell of a lot different to make something illegal that it being illegal likely isn't going to diminish it's demand than it is to make something illegal that it being illegal is very likely to severely diminish it's demand.

I find it unlikely demand will be diminished long term.  It may take time for everyone to move to TOR/I2P/Etc., but its usefulness won't be damaged, just the barrier to entry.
Alcohol has exactly the same effect on your  brain, regardless of its legal status. The usefulness of bitcoin can and will be damaged if bitcoin businesses are having legal problems. That is an important distinction. You might be using btc over tor/i2p to trade on SR, but bitcoin can and currently does much more.

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July 04, 2012, 08:46:38 PM
 #57

Three little words...

Eeee Emm Pee.

Maybe that should be...
Tee Eeee Emm Pee Eee Ssss Teeee Wink

/ThinFoilHatOFF

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July 13, 2012, 02:06:08 AM
 #58

...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.

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July 13, 2012, 02:07:26 AM
 #59

Oh, and I hope this isn't necroposting...I don't want a text laden image of a creepy guy reprimanding me.

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July 13, 2012, 03:46:27 AM
 #60

...just thought of another way bitcoin might get destroyed...

What if Satoshi isn't gone... What if he is here, working on the protocol, client or a BTC business in our midst...and holds a few million Bitcoins...and we all realized our efforts at promoting bitcoin were only serving to keep the price up while he sold his coins....

Please note, there is no fact here...there is nothing to suggest this is true.

How would that destroy Bitcoin? The network will continue functioning as normal. The price would take a hit, but will quickly stabilise. In fact, anyone not closely following the price might not even notice that anything unusual had happened. The only real effect would be that Satoshi suddenly becomes several million dollars richer - and in my opinion, he's earned every cent of it.

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