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FirstAscent
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July 06, 2012, 08:06:10 PM
 #101

Which brings me to my next book suggestion: Healing Our World - The Other Piece Of The Puzzle, by Mary J. Ruwart I was going to wait for Niemivh to finish reading the first one, but the discussion has progressed to the point where it's time for you, at least, to read this one. He'll just have to catch up. In the meantime, I intend to see if I can't finish Political Economy.

Please summarize Ruwart's more salient points. What does she propose? What problems does she identify? Please provide some random samples, or the most important ones, or anything at all. I'm all ears.
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July 06, 2012, 08:07:53 PM
 #102

Which brings me to my next book suggestion: Healing Our World - The Other Piece Of The Puzzle, by Mary J. Ruwart I was going to wait for Niemivh to finish reading the first one, but the discussion has progressed to the point where it's time for you, at least, to read this one. He'll just have to catch up. In the meantime, I intend to see if I can't finish Political Economy.

Please summarize Ruwart's more salient points. What does she propose? What problems does she identify? Please provide some random samples, or the most important ones, or anything at all. I'm all ears.

If you truly were, you would read the book. It is no more - and in fact, significantly less - than you are asking of us.

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July 06, 2012, 08:27:39 PM
 #103

Which brings me to my next book suggestion: Healing Our World - The Other Piece Of The Puzzle, by Mary J. Ruwart I was going to wait for Niemivh to finish reading the first one, but the discussion has progressed to the point where it's time for you, at least, to read this one. He'll just have to catch up. In the meantime, I intend to see if I can't finish Political Economy.

Please summarize Ruwart's more salient points. What does she propose? What problems does she identify? Please provide some random samples, or the most important ones, or anything at all. I'm all ears.

If you truly were, you would read the book. It is no more - and in fact, significantly less - than you are asking of us.

I have seen zero acknowledgement by you of the books I have recommended. I have seen zero questions from you regarding the books I have recommended. I have seen zero interest by you of the potential material that resides in the books I have recommended.

I have twice now tried to engage you about the material that resides in Ruwart's book.

You are invited to discuss the material in Ruwart's book and engage me on the material that resides in the books I have recommended.
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July 06, 2012, 08:34:03 PM
 #104

Which brings me to my next book suggestion: Healing Our World - The Other Piece Of The Puzzle, by Mary J. Ruwart I was going to wait for Niemivh to finish reading the first one, but the discussion has progressed to the point where it's time for you, at least, to read this one. He'll just have to catch up. In the meantime, I intend to see if I can't finish Political Economy.

Please summarize Ruwart's more salient points. What does she propose? What problems does she identify? Please provide some random samples, or the most important ones, or anything at all. I'm all ears.

If you truly were, you would read the book. It is no more - and in fact, significantly less - than you are asking of us.

I have seen zero acknowledgement by you of the books I have recommended. I have seen zero questions from you regarding the books I have recommended. I have seen zero interest by you of the potential material that resides in the books I have recommended.

I have twice now tried to engage you about the material that resides in Ruwart's book.

You are invited to discuss the material in Ruwart's book and engage me on the material that resides in the books I have recommended.

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

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July 06, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
 #105

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

I don't know if I can find a freebie for you. Please discuss Ruwart's work.
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July 06, 2012, 08:51:03 PM
 #106

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

I don't know if I can find a freebie for you. Please discuss Ruwart's work.

Please read Ruwart's work, so that we may have an intelligent discourse on it. Summaries are available on the internet.

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July 06, 2012, 08:54:54 PM
 #107

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

I don't know if I can find a freebie for you. Please discuss Ruwart's work.

Please read Ruwart's work, so that we may have an intelligent discourse on it. Summaries are available on the internet.

Please go to a library and get a copy of one of the books I recommended to you.
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July 06, 2012, 09:03:57 PM
 #108

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

I don't know if I can find a freebie for you. Please discuss Ruwart's work.

Please read Ruwart's work, so that we may have an intelligent discourse on it. Summaries are available on the internet.

Please go to a library and get a copy of one of the books I recommended to you.

That is not free of additional expense. I can understand why one might be unwilling to leave the house (or work, as the case may be) and head to the library. What you are refusing to do is click a link. You have literally expended more energy refusing to do a simple task that I require before discussing the book with you than you would have spent doing it.

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FirstAscent
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July 06, 2012, 09:08:55 PM
 #109

Then I ask you to do exactly the same thing I am doing for you: Provide me, free of charge, a copy of the books to read. Once I have a copy of the books, I will read them, and discuss.

I don't know if I can find a freebie for you. Please discuss Ruwart's work.

Please read Ruwart's work, so that we may have an intelligent discourse on it. Summaries are available on the internet.

Please go to a library and get a copy of one of the books I recommended to you.

That is not free of additional expense. I can understand why one might be unwilling to leave the house (or work, as the case may be) and head to the library. but what you are refusing to do is click a link. You have literally expended more energy refusing to do a simple task that I require before discussing the book with you than you would have spent doing it.

Perhaps you should expend some energy in making a book available to you. And perhaps we could all take the material more seriously if we knew we were both serious about reading the material.

I can click the link and skim the book. You will not be pleased if that is the case. Or I can promise to read the book from front to back in a serious manner. That might occur if you put forth some effort on your part.
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July 06, 2012, 09:14:26 PM
 #110

I can click the link and skim the book. You will not be pleased if that is the case. Or I can promise to read the book from front to back in a serious manner. That might occur if you put forth some effort on your part.

I have already put forth effort into making that book available to you. It is stored on my Dropbox account, so that I can be sure it will always be there, it is formatted in a manner which is DRM free and easily convertible to any format, or readable directly on your computer. Or, I could, If you would like, do no more than you have done expecting us to read the books you suggested, and post a link to Amazon.

I will not respond to you any more on this subject, until you have indicated that you have downloaded and read the book.

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July 06, 2012, 10:06:31 PM
 #111

Well I'm about half done with the book.  Outside of some of the interesting things he says about the school system this book is total garbage.  It's ideological drivel, he spends (in some cases) single paragraphs on something as complex as import tariffs and leaves the reader to a conclusion based on something so brief.

This book, leads the reader to believe that he is somehow qualified to talk about the myriad of topics that DF glosses over in typical ideologue fashion.  He can never actually talk about a single thing in depth, because if he did he would run out of rhetoric and actually have to start discussing details.

He's also very lazy, many things in the book say "I think" or "I believe" about things that aren't hypothesis but relatively easily verifiable facts.

If you pick a page of this book I can likely expose it for the ideological fraud that it is - and this should be evident to anyone, that isn't already a 'true believer'.

Put the book down and read one of these:

Out of those books which do you think would be the most important for a Libertarian to read?

All of them. Seriously. I've never heard a libertarian even be aware of the information, data, and dynamics presented in all of those works.

For a comprehensive overview of humanity's footprint all over the world, Paul Ehrlich's book The Dominant Animal would be a good one.

For a solid understanding of economics as it should be studied and taught, Herman Daly's Beyond Growth: The Economics of Sustainable Development would be recommended.

For a very detailed study of the importance of life on this planet, Edward O. Wilson's book The Future of Life is an excellent recommendation.

For a solid understanding of the dynamics and importance of a balanced ecosystem, I'd suggest The Wolf's Tooth: Keystone Predators, Trophic Cascades, and Biodiversity by Cristina Eisenberg.

Tim Flannery's The Weather Makers is a solid tour of climate change science.

I would, but right now I'm trying to focus on Libertarianism as much as I can.  It is for a much larger project that I am working on that I try and direct my attention in this direction first.

I'll add them to my Amazon wish list though.

=]

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 06, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
 #112

Has anyone here read "End the Fed" by Ron Paul?  That's a book that I wrote a 4000+ word review on (it was 8 pages).  You can find that here:


http://www.amazon.com/review/R18XZNCCILPI7I/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B006J3V150&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful


If I had that much to say about Paul's little manifesto then I would have to write about a 30,000+ word summary of "The Machinery of Freedom", which hopefully I won't feel impelled to do.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 07, 2012, 12:08:33 AM
 #113

If I had that much to say about Paul's little manifesto then I would have to write about a 30,000+ word summary of "The Machinery of Freedom", which hopefully I won't feel impelled to do.

At that point, really, you should just write your own book. And I honestly have to say that I would like to read that.

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July 07, 2012, 03:01:30 AM
 #114

Well I'm about half done with the book.  Outside of some of the interesting things he says about the school system this book is total garbage.  It's ideological drivel, he spends (in some cases) single paragraphs on something as complex as import tariffs and leaves the reader to a conclusion based on something so brief.

This book, leads the reader to believe that he is somehow qualified to talk about the myriad of topics that DF glosses over in typical ideologue fashion.  He can never actually talk about a single thing in depth, because if he did he would run out of rhetoric and actually have to start discussing details.

He's also very lazy, many things in the book say "I think" or "I believe" about things that aren't hypothesis but relatively easily verifiable facts.

If you pick a page of this book I can likely expose it for the ideological fraud that it is - and this should be evident to anyone, that isn't already a 'true believer'.

Put the book down and read one of these:

Out of those books which do you think would be the most important for a Libertarian to read?

All of them. Seriously. I've never heard a libertarian even be aware of the information, data, and dynamics presented in all of those works.

For a comprehensive overview of humanity's footprint all over the world, Paul Ehrlich's book The Dominant Animal would be a good one.

For a solid understanding of economics as it should be studied and taught, Herman Daly's Beyond Growth: The Economics of Sustainable Development would be recommended.

For a very detailed study of the importance of life on this planet, Edward O. Wilson's book The Future of Life is an excellent recommendation.

For a solid understanding of the dynamics and importance of a balanced ecosystem, I'd suggest The Wolf's Tooth: Keystone Predators, Trophic Cascades, and Biodiversity by Cristina Eisenberg.

Tim Flannery's The Weather Makers is a solid tour of climate change science.

I would, but right now I'm trying to focus on Libertarianism as much as I can. It is for a much larger project that I am working on that I try and direct my attention in this direction first.

Thus the reason you should read the books. Now. Each and every one of those books presents real world data and issues which demand solutions libertarianism cannot offer, and essentially denies. Attacking libertarianism as an exercise in one philosophy against another is not enough. Working one's way through the concept of money and monetary policy is not enough.

Ehrlich's book does a thorough job of exposing the libertarian think tanks for what they are - sham organizations masquerading as authorities in the subject under discussion. More importantly, he provides such a comprehensive and thorough grand tour of humanity, and the development of the social structures it has created, and the problems it has created, you couldn't help but find material therein on nearly every page to arm yourself for the self assigned job ahead.

Daly's work does a thorough job of debunking the concept of economic growth as driven by the free market.

Flannery's book makes a mockery of the libertarian think tanks' absurd agenda of denying climate change.

The other two are equally important. Delay reading them, and your book on libertarianism will only be weaker.
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July 09, 2012, 10:29:28 AM
 #115

The first post has been updated with two new books, sadly both from my perspective, I am beginning to wonder if niemivh was serious in offering me anything to read. In the mean time, I suppose there's always Alongside Night.

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July 09, 2012, 11:36:51 AM
 #116

Downloading.

Maybe I'll give these a read if I can ever get myself to read a book anytime soon. Game guides and forums are one thing... Smiley

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July 09, 2012, 04:06:15 PM
 #117

Well I'm about half done with the book.  Outside of some of the interesting things he says about the school system this book is total garbage.  It's ideological drivel, he spends (in some cases) single paragraphs on something as complex as import tariffs and leaves the reader to a conclusion based on something so brief.

This book, leads the reader to believe that he is somehow qualified to talk about the myriad of topics that DF glosses over in typical ideologue fashion.  He can never actually talk about a single thing in depth, because if he did he would run out of rhetoric and actually have to start discussing details.

He's also very lazy, many things in the book say "I think" or "I believe" about things that aren't hypothesis but relatively easily verifiable facts.

If you pick a page of this book I can likely expose it for the ideological fraud that it is - and this should be evident to anyone, that isn't already a 'true believer'.

Finished the book, the 2nd half was better than the first.  Such a strange book, he dispels many tenants of what people would refer to as Libertarian ideas yet still calls himself Libertarian.  This sort of proves my point that if you had a room of 100 different Libertarians you'd have at least 100 (if not more) different conceptions of what the policy would be and probably at least half as many theories of the what the ideology actually is.

But what I said quoted above still stands, it's mostly drivel and I had to resist writing between every margin.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 09, 2012, 04:09:18 PM
 #118

If I had that much to say about Paul's little manifesto then I would have to write about a 30,000+ word summary of "The Machinery of Freedom", which hopefully I won't feel impelled to do.

At that point, really, you should just write your own book. And I honestly have to say that I would like to read that.

That's what I'm going part time at my job to do.

 Grin

I've read about 110 books in preparation on the relevant topics yet will have to probably read another 200 to 300 books to write the book that I intend to write; it's going to be a well-researched, well-argued book if I can pull it off.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 09, 2012, 04:12:24 PM
 #119

Well I'm about half done with the book.  Outside of some of the interesting things he says about the school system this book is total garbage.  It's ideological drivel, he spends (in some cases) single paragraphs on something as complex as import tariffs and leaves the reader to a conclusion based on something so brief.

This book, leads the reader to believe that he is somehow qualified to talk about the myriad of topics that DF glosses over in typical ideologue fashion.  He can never actually talk about a single thing in depth, because if he did he would run out of rhetoric and actually have to start discussing details.

He's also very lazy, many things in the book say "I think" or "I believe" about things that aren't hypothesis but relatively easily verifiable facts.

If you pick a page of this book I can likely expose it for the ideological fraud that it is - and this should be evident to anyone, that isn't already a 'true believer'.

Put the book down and read one of these:

Out of those books which do you think would be the most important for a Libertarian to read?

All of them. Seriously. I've never heard a libertarian even be aware of the information, data, and dynamics presented in all of those works.

For a comprehensive overview of humanity's footprint all over the world, Paul Ehrlich's book The Dominant Animal would be a good one.

For a solid understanding of economics as it should be studied and taught, Herman Daly's Beyond Growth: The Economics of Sustainable Development would be recommended.

For a very detailed study of the importance of life on this planet, Edward O. Wilson's book The Future of Life is an excellent recommendation.

For a solid understanding of the dynamics and importance of a balanced ecosystem, I'd suggest The Wolf's Tooth: Keystone Predators, Trophic Cascades, and Biodiversity by Cristina Eisenberg.

Tim Flannery's The Weather Makers is a solid tour of climate change science.

I would, but right now I'm trying to focus on Libertarianism as much as I can. It is for a much larger project that I am working on that I try and direct my attention in this direction first.

Thus the reason you should read the books. Now. Each and every one of those books presents real world data and issues which demand solutions libertarianism cannot offer, and essentially denies. Attacking libertarianism as an exercise in one philosophy against another is not enough. Working one's way through the concept of money and monetary policy is not enough.

Ehrlich's book does a thorough job of exposing the libertarian think tanks for what they are - sham organizations masquerading as authorities in the subject under discussion. More importantly, he provides such a comprehensive and thorough grand tour of humanity, and the development of the social structures it has created, and the problems it has created, you couldn't help but find material therein on nearly every page to arm yourself for the self assigned job ahead.

Daly's work does a thorough job of debunking the concept of economic growth as driven by the free market.

Flannery's book makes a mockery of the libertarian think tanks' absurd agenda of denying climate change.

The other two are equally important. Delay reading them, and your book on libertarianism will only be weaker.

Yes sir!  Although debunking what is traditional "Leftism" will be a topic of a later book I intend to write, so I hope they come at it from a different approach.  Why I'll be writing that one later is that the traditionally "Leftist" ideologies are more complex and, some, are even more abstract so it's going to be harder to make that case.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 09, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
 #120

The first post has been updated with two new books, sadly both from my perspective, I am beginning to wonder if niemivh was serious in offering me anything to read. In the mean time, I suppose there's always Alongside Night.

I tried to find my earlier post, but can't, it vanished.

So, I guess the top five books closest to "what I believe" would be the following:

*  "National System of Political Economy" by F. List
*  "Harmony of Interests" by Henry C. Carey
*  "Report on Manufacturers" by Alexander Hamilton
*  "Sophisms of Free Trade" by John B. Byles
*  "Surviving the Cataclysm" by Webster G. Tarpley

These books I mostly agree with, although there are plenty of books which I agree very much with certain elements of that would make this list quite long.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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