How to end Bitcoin with as little as 15% of hashpower efficiently

[turvarya]

So, let's look at the counterarguments again:

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate
- miners wouldn't just shut down and make an even higher loss, because the bought costly hardware they now don't use.
- even in an event of 50% hash rate loss, that just means 20 min for a confirmation and 4 weeks for an adjustment and than it is back to normal

The only argument you bring in here is some kind of network effect, but you just can't predict, how other actors would react.

[1714690294]

1714690294

[Flashman]

Should I be prepared for an assault by dragons too? I mean, as long as you're accusing me of sticking my head in the sand when confronted by purely imaginary risks?

[turvarya]

if you would DDOS some larger pools at the same time and would be able to at least temporary take them down this could be a ride.
Getting better by the minute.  

Don't say it wouldn't be possible for a rich individual to turn the killswitch with an orchestrated attack because it is.

So, what? Pools don't actually have any hashing power. People go to another pool. Just another scenario, where there is just a short disturbance.

[smalltimer]

some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.

The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate

depends on who you are

[Flashman]

where there is just a short disturbance.

A very short disturbance, mining software lets you set failover pools, pretty much every miner is set up with them, can't contact pool for a few seconds, NEXT!

[turvarya]

some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.

The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate

depends on who you are

Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.

What about my other arguments?

[smalltimer]

some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.

The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate

depends on who you are

Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.

What about my other arguments?

i think one shouldn't be too sure about things because being too sure about oneself greatly increases the risks to be caught off guard.
The attack pointed out here is not easy to carry out but in case it would be successful it would be the end of bitcoin. I've also not seen it in this form before and the combination of these different attacks makes it quite potent.
Talking it down to the point of denial is always a good strategy      (not)

[turvarya]

some potent stuff here. You guys are pretty wicked though cooking stuff like this up.

The denying bagholders is just normal. I consider it 'noise' at this point.

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate

depends on who you are

Oh, I forgot about that mighty wizard living in this big dark castle.

What about my other arguments?

i think one shouldn't be too sure about things because being too sure about oneself greatly increases the risks to be caught off guard.
The attack pointed out here is not easy to carry out but in case it would be successful it would be the end of bitcoin. I've also not seen it in this form before and the combination of these different attacks makes it quite potent.
Talking it down to the point of denial is always a good strategy      (not)

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

[smalltimer]

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?

other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong. I'd think they would take much longer.
Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?

[turvarya]

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?

So, they would compete with all the other ASIC-developers.
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.

[smalltimer]

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?

So, they would compete with all the other ASIC-developers.
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.

I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.

[periander]

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?

other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong. I'd think they would take much longer.
Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?

lol. rly. its math boy.

[turvarya]

So, please tell me, who can buy 15% of the hash rate, in what time schedule? It's not like, I go in the store and say: "Here is 1 billion dollar, one 15% of Bitcoin hash rate, please".

Still, nothing about my other counter arguments.

if i was a gov or a central bank i'd probably get all the hash i wanted. If nobody would deliver to me i would have the recouces to build my own asics. Does this even need to be explained?

So, they would compete with all the other ASIC-developers.
You can't enter a market as a newbie and become one of the big players in a short time.

I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.

So, you are sure. That is really convenient.
That is just another way to say, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[razibuzouzou]

- you can't just buy 15% of the hash rate

depends on who you are

Go ahead and make a list of costs and constraints (manufacturing, logistics, etc.) for achieving 15%.
Please, take into account the time necessary to build these 15% (currently 50 PH/s) from scratch; and your actual hashrate share by the time you're done...
Finally, make a list of actors that could meet those costs and actually be able to achieve 15%.

[periander]

to answer your question:

if you want ~3h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 5%
if you want ~12h blocks you need to bring the hashrate down to only: 1.4%

good luck with that.


the more interesting (and hypothetical) part is: what happens after the difficult adjustment, after all the hashpower comes back at a very low difficult

[razibuzouzou]

Let's ask the other way: at what hashrate loss would a block take 3,10 or 12 hours to solve?

Please, go ahead. Here are the basic formula :

target_hashrate = DIFFICULTY * 7.158278826666667 # target hashrate (MH/s)
actual_hashrate = target_hashrate * (600 / TIME_PER_BLOCK) # hashrate for a block that took TIME_PER_BLOCK seconds to solve (MH/s)

[elasticband]

I'm sure a government can hire their experts. This discussion becomes tiring.

This is what people say when they have ran out of facts or analysis to back up there claims, fuck the math & facts, send the bogey man in

[smalltimer]

the more interesting (and hypothetical) part is: what happens after the difficult adjustment, after all the hashpower comes back at a very low difficult

what happens after they come back at low diff should be the next 2016 blocks will be mined very fast. So 2 weeks of mining in maybe a day or two (depending on how big the difference). So actually everyone would mine like mad in case the attack doesn't kill it, right?

This is certainly more interesting now.

[Flashman]

other arguments are false very likely. The claim 50% drop would cause 20 minutes blocks is likely wrong.

I'm very sorry to inform you that due to a very large dump of stupid on this forum of late, it's currently worth nothing, not even the usual 2 cents. Maybe you should save it up in a cold wallet for a while.

[Muuurrrrica!]

someone should at least try it just to make sure