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Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: Closing  (Read 19625 times)
Fizzgig
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August 16, 2012, 06:14:27 AM
 #81

Man I sure do hope no one buys anymore stocks at the next offering! Then we'll get .1% daily dividends for sure!...right? Or would you rather us buy more? =) This stock sure does make me feel conflicted.

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jackmaninov
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August 16, 2012, 09:06:51 PM
 #82

Today's daily coupon has been paid @ 1% of IPO price.

Thank you.


Good job returning to 1% so quickly!

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bitcoinbear
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August 17, 2012, 12:43:07 AM
 #83

The way it takes a couple days to ramp back up to 1% is a bit indicative that it is not a scam, that it does take time to get the money into the business.

I am still not completely convinced, but I am optimistic.

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Factory
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August 17, 2012, 03:52:04 PM
 #84

Sale initiated due to large increase in BTC price.

Edit: Sale has now ended.

Take a look at http://mtgoxlive.com/orders before deciding to invest. The more the BTC price rises the harder the hit to OBSI.HRPT coupons, as funds are held & interest earned almost entirely in USD.



How does selling more bonds deliver any type of value to shareholders? If it becomes harder to make your target margin of profit due to high BTC exchange rates, why on earth would you want to employ more capital into the venture? With a total of 10 Mil shares outstanding and only 24974 active on the open market, it appears that you could further dilute the value of existing shares by a great proportion.

Please answer these two questions directly and concisely:

1. Why sell more bonds to the open public when your target margin of profit is not able to be hit due to exchange rates.

2. Please outline your exact methodology for delivering true value to shareholders.

Thank you.
The00Dustin
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August 17, 2012, 04:34:20 PM
 #85

How does selling more bonds deliver any type of value to shareholders? If it becomes harder to make your target margin of profit due to high BTC exchange rates, why on earth would you want to employ more capital into the venture? With a total of 10 Mil shares outstanding and only 24974 active on the open market, it appears that you could further dilute the value of existing shares by a great proportion.

Please answer these two questions directly and concisely:

1. Why sell more bonds to the open public when your target margin of profit is not able to be hit due to exchange rates.

2. Please outline your exact methodology for delivering true value to shareholders.

Thank you.
Maybe you should read the thread directly and concisely.  He has pointed out over and over that he sells more shares when the price of BTC goes up so he can convert them to more fiat.  If this doesn't make sense to you, then you shouldn't be investing at all, but I'll try to dumb it down for you anyway.

100 shares sold
10 BTC converted to $50
$50 earns $10
$10 converted back to 1 BTC
1% diviend paid
rinse, repeat, etc, one week later:
$50 earns $10
$10 converted back to .75 BTC because of exchange rate
.75% dividend paid
rinse, repeat, etc, one week later:
$10 converted back to .5 BTC because of exchange rate
.5% dividend paid
<dividend continues to get lower and lower on a permanent basis>

VS

100 shares sold
10 BTC converted to $50
$50 earns $10
$10 converted back to 1 BTC
1% diviend paid
rinse, repeat, etc, one week later:
100 more shares sold (200 total now)
10 BTC converted to $75
<snip out temporarily lowered dividend you are complaining about>
$125 earns $22.50
$22.50 converted back to 2 BTC
1% dividend restored

Regarding 2, it has been stated that this is high risk and the nature of the business won't be revealed, what else do you want?  Personally, and based on the vague information provided, I find it far easier to come up with ways for this venture to make money legally than I do pirate's, and it's not difficult to believe that other people would try it if they knew what it was, driving competition up and rates down.  Finally, as he is passing investments through to an investment vehicle outside of his control, he can't do anything to "add shareholder value" other than selling more shares when appropriate.  Also note that he has clearly stated that when this investment vehicle is filled, he will stop, and furthermore, if that happens and the exchange rate continues to climb, dividends will drop.  This is not rocket science, and it shouldn't be surprising WHEN it happens, so if you're trolling, congratulations on hooking me where all of the prior posters couldn't.
Factory
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August 17, 2012, 05:28:11 PM
 #86

Maybe you should read the thread directly and concisely.  He has pointed out over and over that he sells more shares when the price of BTC goes up so he can convert them to more fiat.  If this doesn't make sense to you, then you shouldn't be investing at all, but I'll try to dumb it down for you anyway.

There is no need to promote such hostility within this thread. To state you will 'dumb things down' is uncalled for. I am merely a cautious observer looking for clarity. As OBSI is completely unverified and the business model of this issuance is very vague, surely he does not mind answering questions. Again, there is no need for hostility or 'charged' statements.

When the exchange rate is high the issuer does in fact get more working capital by selling shares and converting from BTC to USD (or whatever fiat currency he is operating within.) However, as the  issuer must convert back to BTC for dividends, the exchange rate does not affect shareholders so long as the exchange rate remains the same. Of course, BTC is volatile in nature, and we can expect the exchange rate to continue to fluctuate.

With a higher exchange rate and more working capital per share sold, he becomes able to make a wider variety of loans, which increases the chance of a default, but the default would be a smaller portion of the overall debt portfolio. This, could be viewed as a positive. However, as total working capital increases, it becomes more difficult to properly employ it to receive an adequate ROE. As there is a total of 10,000,000 total shares issued, with weekly to bi-weekly sales, a situation could arise in which the issuer is unable to employ a large amount of capital. This would be felt by all shareholders as their dividends began to shrink.

I am merely helping further highlight particular risks, inquire information from the issuer, and create a dialogue with the issuer, investors, and potential investors. Clearly this issuance is high risk, and for that reason I believe people should be talking more and not less. Clearly my posts have created some dialogue. I hope in the future, it will continue and that it will not contain any statements about individuals feeling the need to "dumb down" concepts for others, or any other nonsense such as that.

The00Dustin
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August 17, 2012, 05:43:57 PM
 #87

I am merely helping further highlight particular risks, inquire information from the issuer, and create a dialogue with the issuer, investors, and potential investors. Clearly this issuance is high risk, and for that reason I believe people should be talking more and not less. Clearly my posts have created some dialogue. I hope in the future, it will continue and that it will not contain any statements about individuals feeling the need to "dumb down" concepts for others, or any other nonsense such as that.
Alright, for starters, don't take my hostility personally, I am just getting tired of reading the same, tired, already answered questions (and large amounts of trolling) over and over (in all of the "too good to be true" threads I am watching).  That having been said, I have two questions for you:

1) Rather than "dumb down," what would you like me to call it when I do the math for you?  See the third week later in example one and the second week later in example 2, with the USD interest rate consistent, if I didn't skip a week and use the higher exchange rate, the earnings one week later in example 2 would be much higher than the 1% max I am showing is the minimum OBSI gets.  This is, of course, assuming I didn't royally screw up the math, but it is easy to follow, and the math in either case has already been explained without an example.

2) What additional discussion do you seriously expect to see?  Everything I said has already been said or at least implied in this thread.  There isn't much more that can be discussed.  That having been said, since you don't seem to have gathered this (also implied earlier in this thread):  I don't think there are multiple borrowers at this point.  I think there is one borrower who is making high risk USD loans.  When that borrower's operation is fully funded, on more money will be borrowed.  This might be when you assume there will be additional borrowers, but is it not possible that the original borrower may be expanding to new locations?  That is what seems to be implied earlier in this thread.

Note also that everything I refer to being said or implied earlier in this thread comes from OBSI.
bitcoinbear
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August 17, 2012, 05:57:34 PM
 #88

Maybe instead of saying "dumbed-down" you could say "here, let me simplify it for clarity". Thanks for going through that, it was nicely simple and made the situation more easy to understand.

If I may make a guess, it sounds like Obsi is investing in some sort of short-term loan system. These usually have very high rates and fees, but for people who have bad credit they are sometimes the only option, so it is not strange to have such a high rate of return. I presume he does not want to disclose who is receiving the money because they have a limit of incoming capital needed, and if we all go invest with them Obsi would have less oportunity to invest. The morality/ethics of such institutions can be debated (I don't think Senbonzakura is going to invest here anytime soon) but it is not completely unrealistic from the bits and pieces Obsi has let out.

Please correct me if I am wrong (maybe you can say if I am on the right track?)

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Factory
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August 17, 2012, 06:06:07 PM
 #89

I have two questions for you:

1. I appreciate you taking the time to lay out examples of the issuers business operations. However, your examples do not include many important factors such as:

a. lag-time regarding employing newly raised capital.
b. lag-time regarding conversion and transfer back for dividends.
c. any form of estimated default rate (which has to be somewhere in the double digits on such high risk, high interest loans)
d. your equation assumes 100% of capital is employed 100% of the time.
e. as the total amount of working capital increases, it will become more difficult for the issuer to employ it all. With 10,000,000 shares issued, the current potential marketcap is about $1,439,200. Of course, we are a long ways from that, but it is important to note. As total working capital increases, it is a risk for shareholders.

I know you probably left most of these points out intentionally to keep is as basic as possible for people to understand. It is good to highlight these potential risks though. I am just trying to help provide clarity; just as your are.

2. As stated before, I would just like to see a greater dialogue between the issuer, investors, and potential investors. Bitcoinbear has already responded that today's dialogue has helped him understand the issuance better. I think helping create a dialogue for the sake of investor awareness is a very good thing.
The00Dustin
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August 17, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
 #90

1. I appreciate you taking the time to lay out examples of the issuers business operations. However, your examples do not include many important factors such as:<snip>
Those examples are perfect, they allow him to respond and we can all learn.  Prior to them you hadn't really given him anything to respond to that you couldn't have gleaned from previous posts already.  Thank you.
EskimoBob
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August 18, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
 #91

Today's daily coupon has been paid @ 1% of IPO price.

Thank you.


I see you quote me from IRC in your signature to sell your investment "opportunity". Problem is, you have ripped it out of context. 

At the moment, Obi's signature looks like this:




OBSI.1MHS was a loser form day one. There was actually a small chance for a capital gain but Obsi fucked it up for everyone by dumping a load of shares on the market.
As of today, OBSI.1MHS is close to worthless and there is a tiny buy order at 0.065. This turd was issued at 0.25 BTC. Then he dumped more of this garbage on the market at 0.16! Yes 36% loss to everyone. For free! Smiley   
Read and weep: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84963.msg987433#msg987433

How did I get out of this OBSI.1MHS turd? Obsi stared to buy back this garbage at 0.25 and I sold those few I had right away. Why? Because I did not wanted to get involved with something as mismanaged as this turd (some still call it "bond", probably  just for fun).


This buyback was followed by a dump of shares at 0.1 BTC! WTF is all I can say... LOL

Obsi, remove my name and the quote from your signature at once.  It's misleading and out of context.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
bitcoinbear
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August 18, 2012, 04:45:51 PM
 #92

Obsi, remove my name and the quote from your signature at once.  It's misleading and out of context.

I have to say I agree with EskimoBob, it is taken out of context. He was not praising you, he was dissing you. To use that as an advertisement is a bit shady to say the least. If nobody is saying anything nice about you, just don't quote anybody.

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bitcoinbear
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August 18, 2012, 05:07:16 PM
 #93

I have to say I agree with EskimoBob, it is taken out of context. He was not praising you, he was dissing you. To use that as an advertisement is a bit shady to say the least. If nobody is saying anything nice about you, just don't quote anybody.

This was more of a sarcastic blow aimed at him since he sits on IRC calling all the mining bonds 'turds' and talking about how he will launch a much better security 'soon'.

I wanted to highlight that he was all talk, with nothing to back it up. His constant attacks are merely self-serving tactics designed to increase his profits at the expense of the people he is supposedly helping.

Think about it, he's been badmouthing fixed MHS bonds for how long? Yet he held some of my fixed MHS bond and made a large profit from it? So he badmouths an offering, buys the cheap shares/bonds that result from his 'drama' then sits on them collecting a much higher (as a percentage) dividend.

I am by no means defending fixed MHS bonds... difficulty is set to explode when ASICs hit, but I take care of my investors to the best of my abilities and it shows in my actions. What do his actions say about his character?

So it is more poking fun at EskimoBob, rather than advertising for your bond? I guess if one was familiar with EskimoBob's conversations it makes sense, sort of. It is still a dumb thing to have as your signature.

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August 18, 2012, 06:18:26 PM
 #94

Obsi, next time you wanna be all cute and what not, just ask.  Kiss

Thanks for removing this form your signature. BTW, I never told you I did not say that. But you know that.
All happy now? I am Smiley 



While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
totaleclipseofthebank
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August 21, 2012, 10:05:45 PM
 #95

How can you possibly think this random stranger is earning 1% a day (~3600% APR), especially after the whole pirate fiasco...
Bitcoin Oz
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August 21, 2012, 11:07:23 PM
 #96

Quick question for you.

You mentioned before that you will sell more shares as BTC prices goes up. If BTC prices goes down, however, doesn't this mean that the dividends should increase correspondingly?

For example, if you raise 10K USD, and bitcoin price falls from $10/coin to $5/coin, then the dividends should rise to be up to 2%/day, correct? And if it went to $2.5/coin, then divs should be around 4%/day, right? Tks.

Also: who are you?

To keep the ponzi going longer of course.

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August 21, 2012, 11:16:32 PM
 #97

Quick question for you.

You mentioned before that you will sell more shares as BTC prices goes up. If BTC prices goes down, however, doesn't this mean that the dividends should increase correspondingly?

For example, if you raise 10K USD, and bitcoin price falls from $10/coin to $5/coin, then the dividends should rise to be up to 2%/day, correct? And if it went to $2.5/coin, then divs should be around 4%/day, right? Tks.

Also: who are you?

To keep the ponzi going longer of course.

lol
racerguy
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August 22, 2012, 12:19:32 PM
 #98

screw you guys I'm in balls deep, god owes me this after pirate.
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August 22, 2012, 12:32:14 PM
 #99

screw you guys I'm in balls deep, god owes me this after pirate.

Pirate already took one ball and Obsi will take the other.

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August 22, 2012, 05:00:36 PM
 #100

Should the payout buffer grow very large (months-years of 1% payouts) I will solicit bondholders opinions on whether they want stable 1% payouts for a very long time, a lump sum payout, or temporarily higher coupon rates. This depends on Nefario's opinion of exceeding contract payouts, of course.

Generally speaking, doing something that is more favorable toward the other party of a contract (i.e. paying out extra dividends to bondholders) and less favorable to yourself (i.e. Obsi keeps less money) is totally fine and would not be considered a breach of contract.

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