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Author Topic: Is Stamp the culprit?  (Read 5066 times)
Pecunia non olet
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January 09, 2015, 05:30:47 AM
Last edit: January 09, 2015, 05:48:08 AM by Pecunia non olet
 #41


That's what I'm saying. They don't offer anything Bitcoin doesn't have now and that's why they failed and became pump and dump bait. That's why Bitcoin is still big daddy.

To get beck to your market analysis, it seems that almost everything is down investment-wise. January and August are usually bad months anyway.

Yes they do offer something BTC doesn't: low inflation - which was the point of failure in bitcoin

Pump and dump is bitcoin too, so again no argument there.

There are a hand full of coins that aren't even down - these are the ones you should be looking at. But why do i even tell you that?

Low inflation coins have proven to hold their value (no surprise there) and they have also shown to have shorter bearmarkets (no surprise again) and they are also much less volatile (maybe a little surprise but when you think about it, it's not a surprise)

Inflation is good for nothing. There is nothing that can justify the high inflation bitcoin has. So i think bitcoin could very well decline a lot more - after all that's the effect you get from the inflation: constant downward pressure.
It jumps up and down like a fucking jojo.

A currency should be able to hold the value - if it can't hold value it's worth nothing.

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January 09, 2015, 05:55:40 AM
 #42


That's what I'm saying. They don't offer anything Bitcoin doesn't have now and that's why they failed and became pump and dump bait. That's why Bitcoin is still big daddy.

To get beck to your market analysis, it seems that almost everything is down investment-wise. January and August are usually bad months anyway.

Yes they do offer something BTC doesn't: low inflation - which was the point of failure in bitcoin

You either have inflation or premine. Pick. Otherwise you have no distribution model.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 09, 2015, 05:58:33 AM
 #43


That's what I'm saying. They don't offer anything Bitcoin doesn't have now and that's why they failed and became pump and dump bait. That's why Bitcoin is still big daddy.

To get beck to your market analysis, it seems that almost everything is down investment-wise. January and August are usually bad months anyway.

Yes they do offer something BTC doesn't: low inflation - which was the point of failure in bitcoin

You either have inflation or premine. Pick. Otherwise you have no distribution model.

Of course you have inital inflation but in a good coin that's done after 1 or 2 years. Bitcoin wants to take 2 decades which turns out to be problematic.

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January 09, 2015, 06:02:53 AM
 #44


That's what I'm saying. They don't offer anything Bitcoin doesn't have now and that's why they failed and became pump and dump bait. That's why Bitcoin is still big daddy.

To get beck to your market analysis, it seems that almost everything is down investment-wise. January and August are usually bad months anyway.

Yes they do offer something BTC doesn't: low inflation - which was the point of failure in bitcoin

You either have inflation or premine. Pick. Otherwise you have no distribution model.

Of course you have inital inflation but in a good coin that's done after 1 or 2 years. Bitcoin wants to take 2 decades which turns out to be problematic.
There you are again cherry picking timelines. I don't agree that inflation is a problem. But then, I don't care about the price... much.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 09, 2015, 06:08:33 AM
 #45


There you are again cherry picking timelines. I don't agree that inflation is a problem. But then, I don't care about the price... much.

If you prefer playing jojo for a few decades then that's your thing. An advantage for you in this is that you don't care about the price  Roll Eyes

As a human being we tend to loose interest if we see an investement not going anywhere within 2 or 3 years.

IMO a coin needs to be fair with the initial distribution and that should take at least 1 year so everyone has a chance to get in. After year 2 or 3 the inflation should dramatically decrease so profit becomes possible and it can be used to store value, but maybe that's just me, i don't know  Roll Eyes

I think it would come in handy to be able to store value in coins but if you say that's a thing you don't need, ok, then that's your thing.

Trading the volatile bitcoin is good fun for sure. Right now the market has just become pretty unpredictable which makes it difficult.

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January 09, 2015, 06:14:21 AM
 #46


There you are again cherry picking timelines. I don't agree that inflation is a problem. But then, I don't care about the price... much.

If you prefer playing jojo for a few decades then that's your thing. An advantage for you in this is that you don't care about the price  Roll Eyes

As a human being we tend to loose interest if we see an investement not going anywhere within 2 or 3 years.

IMO a coin needs to be fair with the initial distribution and that should take at least 1 year so everyone has a chance to get in. After year 2 or 3 the inflation should dramatically decrease so profit becomes possible and it can be used to store value, but maybe that's just me, i don't know  Roll Eyes

I think it would come in handy to be able to store value in coins but if you say that's a thing you don't need, ok, then that's your thing.
Two to three years is reasonable. The average price for 2014 (to use your timeline) was about 500. If you used dollar cost averaging like everyone recommends, you should double (or more) that in that amount of time.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 09, 2015, 06:19:23 AM
 #47


Two to three years is reasonable. The average price for 2014 (to use your timeline) was about 500. If you used dollar cost averaging like everyone recommends, you should double (or more) that in that amount of time.

So let's hope the best then.

Will remain pretty volatile though and the shortcomings have become obvious and tbh i prefer using other coins mainly and hope they can gain marketshare because i would love to store value in coins.

I consider Bitcoin more risky than the low inflation coins for many reasons.
I just diversify.

So yes, low inflation coins do have a number of very real advantages over bitcoin. Can't be denied. Let's see if bitcoin can make it, it will certainly have a harder time than some other coins.

All it takes is people to understand the game of inflation to spark demand in the alts. I'm just waiting for it. Bitcoin is torture to hold longterm - good fun trading tho. As basecurrency useless on the other hand.

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January 09, 2015, 06:30:33 AM
 #48

So yes, low inflation coins do have a number of very real advantages over bitcoin. Can't be denied. Let's see if bitcoin can make it, it will certainly have a harder time than some other coins.
You define "low inflation coins" as a two to three year ramp. Again, you cherry pick timelines. Bitcoin uses a number greater than the human lifespan, but curves it so most of the inflation is in one or two human generations. A longer ramp gives people enough time to adopt the technology and "bake in" the known inflation rate. So you see, there is no problem with Bitcoin inflation at all.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 09, 2015, 06:36:07 AM
 #49

So yes, low inflation coins do have a number of very real advantages over bitcoin. Can't be denied. Let's see if bitcoin can make it, it will certainly have a harder time than some other coins.
You define "low inflation coins" as a two to three year ramp. Again, you cherry pick timelines. Bitcoin uses a number greater than the human lifespan, but curves it so most of the inflation is in one or two human generations. A longer ramp gives people enough time to adopt the technology and "bake in" the known inflation rate. So you see, there is no problem with Bitcoin inflation at all.

sure longer onramp because it is an egocentric coin that thinks of itself it would take over the world.
We don't need to all use the same coin. If you launch a coin with short onramp every few years that's all sweet and everyone could have fun and those who missed the train will get on the next one. The coins can be merge mined and would be less wastefull and in case one has a problem there are others to back it up. Bitcoin is a problem-child to me.

With the long onramp you achieve nothing btw because most coins are with the early adopters now anyways (bought for cents and single dollars in bulk). So the latecomers do not benefit from the inflation at all - nobody does.

Launching fair coins with short onramp every couple of years makes a lot more sense. The long onramp benefits who? Nobody.

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January 09, 2015, 06:38:51 AM
 #50

So yes, low inflation coins do have a number of very real advantages over bitcoin. Can't be denied. Let's see if bitcoin can make it, it will certainly have a harder time than some other coins.
You define "low inflation coins" as a two to three year ramp. Again, you cherry pick timelines. Bitcoin uses a number greater than the human lifespan, but curves it so most of the inflation is in one or two human generations. A longer ramp gives people enough time to adopt the technology and "bake in" the known inflation rate. So you see, there is no problem with Bitcoin inflation at all.

sure longer onramp because it is an egocentric coin that thinks of itself it would take over the world.
We don't need to all use the same coin. If you launch a coin with short onramp every few years that's all sweet and everyone could have fun and those who missed the train will get on the next one. The coins can be merge mined and would be less wastefull and in case one has a problem there are others to back it up. Bitcoin is a problem-child to me.
I'm all for altcoins development if folks want to waste their time and money. Honey badger don't care.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 09, 2015, 06:47:05 AM
 #51

lol, yeah. Got to move on now. Good chat.
Thread was totally hijacked though  Cheesy

Have a good one.  Smiley

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January 09, 2015, 08:27:10 AM
 #52

Of course you have inital inflation but in a good coin that's done after 1 or 2 years. Bitcoin wants to take 2 decades which turns out to be problematic.

I'm not sure about that.  If we take it as a given that cryptocoin adoption will take several decades before it can become generalized (and eventually replace fiat), there's nothing wrong with smearing out inflation during that adoption phase.  You get a more random distribution of coins that way.  First adopters will have since long stepped out (losing faith) so any first adopter advantage will be lost that way, which is in principle a good thing.  Fast inflation is very similar to premining: only a handful of first adopters will hold most of the coins.  That's not good.  A very long inflation period, with a lot of "despair" passages, will distribute much more randomly the coins before general adoption sets in.
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January 09, 2015, 08:28:46 AM
 #53

You define "low inflation coins" as a two to three year ramp. Again, you cherry pick timelines. Bitcoin uses a number greater than the human lifespan, but curves it so most of the inflation is in one or two human generations. A longer ramp gives people enough time to adopt the technology and "bake in" the known inflation rate. So you see, there is no problem with Bitcoin inflation at all.

Didn't see your post.  I'm exactly on par with that.
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January 09, 2015, 09:30:50 AM
 #54

Of course you have inital inflation but in a good coin that's done after 1 or 2 years. Bitcoin wants to take 2 decades which turns out to be problematic.

I'm not sure about that.  If we take it as a given that cryptocoin adoption will take several decades before it can become generalized (and eventually replace fiat), there's nothing wrong with smearing out inflation during that adoption phase.  You get a more random distribution of coins that way.  First adopters will have since long stepped out (losing faith) so any first adopter advantage will be lost that way, which is in principle a good thing.  Fast inflation is very similar to premining: only a handful of first adopters will hold most of the coins.  That's not good.  A very long inflation period, with a lot of "despair" passages, will distribute much more randomly the coins before general adoption sets in.


Sure, protect the built-in torture as a good thing. Your investors surely love that. An airdrop by mail would have been quicker ...

In a less inflationary one coins get still distributed to people as initial holders take profit and market moves up and down. So there is no difference there. Only difference: your inflationcoin goes jojo and to zero while the low inflation coin goes mainly up. You need to recruit a bunch of masochists for this bitcoin shitshow.

Bitcoiners are some serious nutcases with their talking. Have fun with your built-in despair while we make profit and enjoy ourselves on the way  Grin

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January 09, 2015, 11:59:31 AM
 #55

I'm just wondering if some of the major whales who have been "walking it down" all through 2014, now have the majority of their coins and fiat locked up on Stamp. 

Hopefully that's true, and they are now pissing their pants.  The thought of that makes me grin a big ol' shit eating grin.  Grin

:-D
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January 09, 2015, 03:24:39 PM
 #56

Sure, protect the built-in torture as a good thing. Your investors surely love that. An airdrop by mail would have been quicker ...

In a less inflationary one coins get still distributed to people as initial holders take profit and market moves up and down. So there is no difference there. Only difference: your inflationcoin goes jojo and to zero while the low inflation coin goes mainly up. You need to recruit a bunch of masochists for this bitcoin shitshow.

Bitcoiners are some serious nutcases with their talking. Have fun with your built-in despair while we make profit and enjoy ourselves on the way  Grin

There are no "low inflation coins".  There are fast inflation coins, and slow inflation coins.  Every coin inflates 100% over the course of a certain time lapse, and the discussion is whether that time lapse should be short or long.

Fast inflation means that essentially all the coins end up in the hands of a few, and the total seigniorage will end up in the hands of a few (what you call "taking their profits").  Ultra-fast inflation is akin to premining.  The limit of ultra-fast inflation means that one or a few creators of the coin distribute it.

Slow inflation means that during a certain time, coins are generated.  Ideally, the inflation period is similar to the adoption curve (adoption as a *currency* of course).  If the inflation curve followed perfectly the adoption curve, price would be constant ; it would be similar to a central bank with a price inflation target of 0%.  But that is not going to happen, as adoption is not an exponentially damped process, but probably rather a very slow S-curve (if it happens).  Clearly, adoption is going to take - if it takes place - several decades.  It would hence be normal that the inflation time constant is also several decades.

What happened to bitcoin is that speculation drove its price way way over its current fundamentals (which must be in the single or maybe double digits if the black market share is still very important).  Bitcoin is not much used as a currency for the moment, and most of its market cap is essentially Ponzi-like at this point.   Several scenarios are possible where the speculative price aims for the far future fundamental price, but as the future leverage arm is of the order of a few decades (and as some speculators thought it was going to be 6 months or 2 years) most probably speculation will go up and down a lot.  This may hinder adoption in fact ; but it will also lead to despair, selling  out, losses, gains,  and hence the seigniorage will be much much more erratic, randomly distributed, than a fast inflation or preminted coin.

When (if) bitcoin is finally gaining general adoption, there will have been so many speculators that have made profits, and others that have lost, that the seigniorage (which is the net sum of all those gains and losses) will be diffuse across the globe, as well as the coin distribution.  That looks to me way fairer than a small elite of first adopters or preminters that cash in all of the seigniorage, no ?
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January 10, 2015, 03:48:12 AM
 #57


Launching fair coins with short onramp every couple of years makes a lot more sense. The long onramp benefits who? Nobody.


what ur saying is that bitcoin is less suspect to schemes because it's inflation benefits nobody ??
your saying that low inflation coins benefit someone ??
who is the beneficiaries of the pump dump scam coins ??
what i wonder is why u can only buy ripple with bitcoins ??
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January 10, 2015, 07:08:58 AM
 #58

The long onramp benefits who? Nobody.

That's exactly what makes it "fair".

Ideally, the introduction of a totally new means of payment shouldn't benefit anybody.  That benefit is called seigniorage and is generally considered bad.

Of course we are all here to capture some of that unfair seigniorage :-)  But if the coin is well-designed and fair, we should all fail in doing so, and not get rich at all, but loose our input, while nevertheless promoting adoption.  That would ideally be fair.

As seigniorage is unavoidable with any monetary unit creation (its value goes from zero to its final value), ideally it gets totally randomly distributed, independent of "smart guys" and "first adopters".
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January 10, 2015, 07:12:52 AM
 #59

Launching fair coins with short onramp every couple of years makes a lot more sense.

This is what the alt coins try to do.  They may fail or they may succeed.

However, continuously generating new kinds of coins which take a part of the monetary market is nothing else but inflation of "cryptocoins" in general, and is moreover totally arbitrary.  In that case, we have again uncontrolled inflation over a long period ; but this time not even a sound money principle.  Let us then just stay with fiat. 
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January 10, 2015, 08:26:28 AM
Last edit: January 10, 2015, 10:01:04 AM by insidertradingeverywhere
 #60

Guys, if nobody benefits, not even investors and in the end not even the miners, it's fair?

You got some serious brain-problems.

It's going to fail because nobody benefits - not even the ones supporting it.

The one who maybe benefits is the whale who scoops it all up on the bottom and pumps and dumps it on you fanboys.

The other one who benefits is the one who shorts it. So your logic is catastrophic.

Early investors benefit heavily - and since nobody benefits after them obviously, it looks more and more like a ponzi.

The argument with short onramp would lead to a few owning most is not valid either because the same is true for bitcoin since reward decreases exponentially.
Bitcoin is as bad with the distribution as any altcoin - only difference: the useless torture of the inflation is dragged out on a longer timeframe and prevents in this way an immediate success of the project, makes it volatile and unuseable as store for value.

Bitcoin has actually a distribution worse than most non-scam/fairly launched alts because when btc was launched the community was tiny compared to now while at that time the miningrewards were the biggest.

Ok, you are now allowed to fanboy more.

Obviously most of you communists are opposed to a currency that can hold value and/or create profit in the present. Have fun with the pipedreams and don't get overrun by a value-preserving steamroller Wink

Keep protecting decay as something good.

Lol! Decay as point of fairness, LMAO!

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