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Author Topic: P2PTradeX: P2P Trading between cryptocurrencies  (Read 9440 times)
cunicula
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November 04, 2012, 03:41:00 AM
 #21

This should be probably discussed in another thread... it is another under-analyzed important subject...

My estimation is that fee price can be modeled by an equation like this:

Average fee per transaction =
  a0*Mining_Electricity_Cost  + a1*Mining_Hardware_Cost + a2*Avg_Transaction_Size + a3*Avg_Verification_Time
  - a4*Mining_Block_reward

What I've done to reduce fees in my alternate cryptocoin is to reduce average transaction size (80 bytes average), reduce Verification time (0.1 msec average).

I don't know how to reduce electricity cost of mining, except for Proof-Of-Stake proposals.
Wasn't there a paper that analyzed Bitcoin future fee price? What does it says?

Best regards, Sergio.

My views on this topic are controversial and widely-ignored. If you want to discuss this, it would be best for you to open the new topic. If I open it, no one will respond.

My short answer is
1) You should rearrange your equation so that block reward is on the left hand side. Block reward is just another form of tax (inflation tax instead of txn tax).
2) Mining Electricity Cost and Mining Hardware Cost dominate the right hand side, thus you can ignore Txn_Size and Txn_Verification_Time for the time being.

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lophie
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November 13, 2012, 02:40:10 PM
 #22

any updates? I am very interested.

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February 24, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
 #23

Sorry to bump this old topic, but I propose making a change to the wikipedia article here.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chains

Quote
"Currencies that implement the same ideas as Bitcoin can be traded freely against each other without trust."

This statement is false. As Sergio has described, the GMAX/luxgladius scheme is inherently insecure because it either a) has no timeout, in which case funds could be locked up forever, or else it b) relies on timeouts in the two chains which leads to a race condition where one guy could run away with the funds.

The P2PTradeX solution he describes would require substantial hard-fork changes to Bitcoin - essentially, you would have to be able to encode the validation rules for the altchain in a transaction script.

So, my suggestion is to remove the GMAX/luxgladius example from the wiki and explain that it currently thought to be impossible to trade between altchains and bitcoin without trust, and include a link to this thread.

amiller on freenode / 19G6VFcV1qZJxe3Swn28xz3F8gDKTznwEM
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I study Merkle trees, credit networks, and Byzantine Consensus algorithms.
Sergio_Demian_Lerner
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February 25, 2013, 03:59:27 PM
 #24


So, my suggestion is to remove the GMAX/luxgladius example from the wiki and explain that it currently thought to be impossible to trade between altchains and bitcoin without trust, and include a link to this thread.

You can do it yourself! To become a contributor to the wiki you just have to send a contribution (which can be tiny of you want) to a Bitcoin address (as an Spam protection measure)
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Ron Gross


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May 21, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
 #25

I had some difficulty Googling for a clear explanation of atomic cross-chain trading, so I gathered my findings into this wiki page.

I must admit I do not fully understand Mike Hearns' explanation as presented, I suggest we use the wiki page to develop and clarify the solution as needed.

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greBit
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June 20, 2013, 09:53:48 AM
 #26

Any progress on this?
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Ron Gross


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June 20, 2013, 03:23:01 PM
 #27

I think the wiki page now clearly explains how to implement it.
We just need someone to pick up the glove...

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Max Kaye


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June 21, 2013, 07:59:47 AM
 #28

I think the wiki page now clearly explains how to implement it.
We just need someone to pick up the glove...

I'm working on Marketcoin. It's rather similar, but more encompassing.

I had some difficulty Googling for a clear explanation of atomic cross-chain trading, so I gathered my findings into this wiki page.

I must admit I do not fully understand Mike Hearns' explanation as presented, I suggest we use the wiki page to develop and clarify the solution as needed.

The chain-trade alg works in theory, but has two many practical 'misapplications', such as the race condition or mutually assured destruction.

As an addendum, Marketcoin requires no change to any current altchain (Bitcoin included) in order to trade with it.

As an addendum to the addendum, I started implementing the chaintrade script before Marketcoin fell into place. See https://github.com/XertroV/bitcoin/tree/chaintrade
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June 23, 2013, 01:01:00 PM
 #29

such as the race condition

No, that's why it's called "atomic", either both parties live up to their end of the bargain, or nothing happens.

or mutually assured destruction

No, if one party aborts in the middle then both parties retain the coins that they originally had. Therefore extortion isn't possible.
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