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Author Topic: Bustabit.com Provably Fair Seeding Event  (Read 49220 times)
RHavar
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January 13, 2015, 06:15:08 PM
 #21

btw, are you saying there is a 10btc bounty for the compromisation of your scheme?

There's a 10 BTC bounty for knowing the server secret. You can claim it by doing nothing more than just spending from it (it's a private key, for address with 10 BTC in it). That's because if you know the server secret, you could cheat the game anyway, so I would prefer if someone does discover it (it's stored in the database along with the hashes) you just take the 10 BTC, which will act as a bounty for you and a trip wire for me

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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RHavar
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January 13, 2015, 06:16:24 PM
 #22

I've also burnt 10k bits to record the terminating hash in the blockchain: https://blockchain.info/tx/dbfd4591639be96cdb2ad8077985734b368d1f4d3a8c7a45cbed2d3f3f96edfd?show_adv=true

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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January 13, 2015, 07:52:47 PM
 #23

I've also burnt 10k bits to record the terminating hash in the blockchain: https://blockchain.info/tx/dbfd4591639be96cdb2ad8077985734b368d1f4d3a8c7a45cbed2d3f3f96edfd?show_adv=true

I found OP pretty confusing, and I was partly responsible for coming up with the scheme in the first place.

I would recommend rewriting it so that a newcomer could understand what's going on.

I think the salient points are:

1) Ryan has generated a chain of 10 million sha256 hashes, starting with the private key of a Bitcoin address, and repeatedly feeding the output of sha256 back into itself 10 million times. He has published the final output of that chain.

2) Moneypot will play through that chain of hashes, in reverse order, and use the hashes to determine the crash point in a provably fair manner.

3) To avoid criticism that the Bitcoin address used in step 1 was carefully chosen to generate lots of "bad" crash points, each hash in the chain will be salted with a client seed, which Ryan has no control over. The client seed will be the block hash of a Bitcoin block that hasn't yet been mined.

Is that any clearer?

Once those three points have been stated, then it's time to delve into the actual code, long hex hashes, and the specific block number. I found I was getting lost in the detail and missing the big picture.

Edit: I have a concern:

How can I tell that your chain was actually generated from the private key of the address you published? I don't think I can, and I don't think it even matters. So why not just say that you have generated a long chain of sha256 hashes, and omit the stuff about the private key of a Bitcoin address? The important thing is that you have committed to a particular chain by publishing the final hash in the chain before the (client seed / bitcoin block hash) is known.

It would be nice to have a 10 BTC bounty be available as a tripwire and guaranteed reward, but there's no way I can know that you even used that private key anywhere in the process, so that bit comes back down to having to trust you.

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RHavar
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January 13, 2015, 08:17:56 PM
 #24

Is that any clearer?

Thanks Dooglus, that's much clearer. I lifted that into the original post.



Quote
So why not just say that you have generated a long chain of sha256 hashes, and omit the stuff about the private key of a Bitcoin address?

Because like you said, it doesn't matter. It's really just a trivia piece. Just like you can't verify how long the chain is, but it doesn't impact the ability to verify the distribution of game results.


Quote
It would be nice to have a 10 BTC bounty be available as a tripwire and guaranteed reward, but there's no way I can know that you even used that private key anywhere in the process, so that bit comes back down to having to trust you.

When I need to generate a new chain, I'll reveal the initial server seed, and you can verify. Or if someone does find out the initial server seed, and it's not that private key, I'll be outed as a liar. But anyway, it doesn't effect the provably distribution.  But yeah, if you're a bug-bounty hunter, you'll need to trust me on that one.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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January 13, 2015, 08:38:55 PM
 #25

Improvements are always welcome Smiley Nice addition to a great game!
dooglus
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January 13, 2015, 10:56:51 PM
 #26

Quote
So why not just say that you have generated a long chain of sha256 hashes, and omit the stuff about the private key of a Bitcoin address?

Because like you said, it doesn't matter. It's really just a trivia piece. Just like you can't verify how long the chain is, but it doesn't impact the ability to verify the distribution of game results.

I think clarity and simplicity are the most important properties here. Your scheme is relatively complex so it's good to prune as much as possible if doing so doesn't reduce the quality of the scheme as a whole.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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RHavar
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January 15, 2015, 10:05:10 PM
 #27

The implementation (containing information about the seeding event) is here: https://github.com/moneypot/gameserver/commit/bc1bffe32833a3f73046698677804c216607f952

For anyone wanting auditing the provably fair seeding, this is a great thing to backup.

This is the code that will be used once the miners have mined block 339300

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
dooglus
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January 15, 2015, 10:22:27 PM
 #28

The implementation (containing information about the seeding event) is here: https://github.com/moneypot/gameserver/commit/bc1bffe32833a3f73046698677804c216607f952

For anyone wanting auditing the provably fair seeding, this is a great thing to backup.

This is the code that will be used once the miners have mined block 339300

I think that just quoting your post is enough. You can't change the content of that commit without changing its URL.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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RHavar
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January 17, 2015, 02:31:06 AM
 #29

Just 15 more blocks until block 339300, in which we'll know the client seed. I am just heading out the door right now to go out and have a few beers with old friends: So me pushing the prov branch to production will largely depend on my sobriety when I get back home.

I'm also going to delay the increase wager size until Monday or Tuesday, to give me more time to develop and test limits based on the site current bankroll. The plan now is to start with a bankroll of 150 BTC, max bet of 1 BTC and have a max-profit of 2%. While this is massively above a 1x kelly, extensive simulation proves it's still +EV

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
RHavar
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January 17, 2015, 06:43:02 AM
 #30

We now have a client seed: '000000000000000007a9a31ff7f07463d91af6b5454241d5faf282e5e0fe1b3a', thanks everyone who participated in this event.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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January 19, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
 #31

Wow, it is nice to see that this got implemented.
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January 19, 2015, 07:30:19 PM
 #32

Wow, it is nice to see that this got implemented.

I like this site and especially free 2 tickets and I have won once 250x . Simply one of the best and a must try site. Keep up great work this is going to be big in future.
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March 20, 2015, 10:05:13 PM
 #33

This give sooo good ! Cheesy
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April 11, 2015, 06:06:20 AM
 #34

If someone found the secret, they'd probably cash out and multiply it even more : )
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June 21, 2015, 12:19:36 AM
 #35

I just want to say that you guys seemed to have been advertising good or somethin'. I'm hearing 'Bustabit' mentioned more and more. Maybe because it's just a bit more innovative, it's a social experience, and all of you are betting on the exact same multiplier. Thanks.
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June 21, 2015, 01:14:23 AM
 #36

i dont understand what exactly are you trying to do here :O.
your saying that there is possibility to cheat in bustabit??? im a bit confused here Tongue
regards.
-Katerniko1

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June 21, 2015, 05:08:23 PM
 #37

i dont understand what exactly are you trying to do here :O.
your saying that there is possibility to cheat in bustabit??? im a bit confused here Tongue
regards.
-Katerniko1

The point of this thread, is to prove that the game is fair. Or more specifically, the game sequence has been pre-determined and from a fair distribution, and can not be influenced by any players actions =)

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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June 21, 2015, 06:29:13 PM
 #38

i dont understand what exactly are you trying to do here :O.
your saying that there is possibility to cheat in bustabit??? im a bit confused here Tongue
regards.
-Katerniko1

The point of this thread, is to prove that the game is fair. Or more specifically, the game sequence has been pre-determined and from a fair distribution, and can not be influenced by any players actions =)
how can anyone prove it :O? i still dont understand it how to prove that its pre-determined when it will crush?
explain a bit better for me xD
regards.
-Katerniko1

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June 21, 2015, 10:35:06 PM
 #39

I'm wondering why the system used for dice games cannot be extended to multiplayer games in a straightforward way. Before the round the server would generate a server secret and publish the hash of the server secret. All players generate a client secret. When a player clicks on place bet, he submits his secret to the server. When the next round starts all submitted client secrets are concatenated with the server secret and used to compute the crash multiplier.

What am I missing?
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June 22, 2015, 12:10:57 AM
 #40

how can anyone prove it :O? i still dont understand it how to prove that its pre-determined when it will crush?
explain a bit better for me xD
regards.
-Katerniko1

Unfortunately, I don't think I can. The original post is my best attempt, but if you work through the original post with someone who knows the cryptographic primitives, it should make sense. =)

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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