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Author Topic: Please give another section to ponzis...  (Read 2443 times)
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January 13, 2015, 06:51:59 AM
 #21

If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
What about this one. The OP is not asking for anyone to post anything, but is telling investors suckers to send bitcoin to the ponzi address (from a non-shared wallet, like QT or multibit) then the ponzi OP will eventually send money back to the "sending" address.

It does not appear to have a website

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January 13, 2015, 06:54:58 AM
 #22

If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.

So the posts with BTC addresses directly in the forum without a website can be reported?
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January 13, 2015, 06:56:08 AM
 #23

i absolute agree with you more section about ponzi before they rain all the gambling section
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January 13, 2015, 07:17:50 AM
 #24

If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.
What about this one. The OP is not asking for anyone to post anything, but is telling investors suckers to send bitcoin to the ponzi address (from a non-shared wallet, like QT or multibit) then the ponzi OP will eventually send money back to the "sending" address.

It does not appear to have a website

Games and Rounds.

If it has a website, it belongs in Gambling. If it does not have a website, it belongs in Games and Rounds.

So the posts with BTC addresses directly in the forum without a website can be reported?

Yes, though one of the ones you reported did have a website.

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January 13, 2015, 07:31:37 AM
 #25

not much we can do about it...the fad will die down soon hopefully

Doubt it. That's what people said about alt coins but they're still going strong. Scams and ponzis will be around as long as bitcoin is and as long as there's a fresh new stream of idiots to throw their money at them. The only way they'll disappear from this site is if they're banned and/or the forum recieved some kind of legal trouble because of them. Maybe they could do with their own section though and theymos has at least considered it in the past.

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January 13, 2015, 08:46:23 AM
 #26

This has come up before. The main issue is that ponzis are very similar to both other gambling sites and real investment sites, so it's difficult to create a category that includes exactly the right things. How about this:

Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.

Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?

Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?

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January 13, 2015, 08:55:07 AM
 #27

I think many people seem to be both irritated by it and also want them gone or moved to their own section. I'm not that fussed personally but I'd probably vote for their own section if it came to it. Maybe you could add HYIP / High Yield Investment Programs to the title or description.

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January 13, 2015, 09:21:46 AM
 #28

Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.
Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?

I guess you can just create an alt forum in Marketplace named "Other". Also I'm not against that.

This is really irritating :

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January 13, 2015, 10:00:55 AM
 #29



I hope it's not wrong to quote myself and cross post it, but there is a similar thread to this going.
As a non gambler, the state of its thread doesn't bother me, and I'm sure some of the more traditional gambling sites are pissed at money going into ponzi games and not on their dice.
What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.

Yeah, but there's two different things going on under the 'Ponzi' label atm.
There's the ones which are clearly stating they are a game based on the ponzi concept, i.e. the punter will be paid from new money coming in, there is no underlying business, and when new "investment" stops, that's it for you, winning or losing and the site owner makes a % fee.
That's a form of gambling, but with unknown, time related risk, and these schemes already (should) go in the Gambling section.

Then there's the ones which will swear black is white that they are cloud mining, arbitraging or whatever and they have discovered a way of doing it that enables them to return impossible ROI. These people will obviously not voluntarily put their schemes in a "Ponzi" category or the Gambling Section, because they deny that they are operating one.
It would be unrealistic to want or expect BCT to somehow vet, for example, a new cloud mining service and force it to go into a new Ponzi category or the Gambling section unless it met certain critireria.

In both cases people can lose their money, but only in the latter type are they being scammed, so really the separate Category would be a bit irrelevant.

TL:DR
There's a world of difference between doublemyponzigame.lol and bitcointrader.biz.

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January 13, 2015, 10:12:07 AM
 #30

What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.

Yeah, that's part of why I want to create a section with very clearly defined and objective criteria.

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January 13, 2015, 10:18:32 AM
 #31

What does bear thinking about is if you create a "Ponzi" section then you run the risk of passively implying that if it's not in there then it's not a ponzi.

Yeah, that's part of why I want to create a section with very clearly defined and objective criteria.

Sure, but what do you do when Mr. X turns up with a "cloud mining" scheme offering crazy ROI, offering no proof of anything and wants it in Service Discussion?
Are you proposing some sort of vetting process or self verification for these people or will the proposed section just be for those who openly admit it's just a gambling game?

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January 13, 2015, 10:26:26 AM
 #32

This has come up before. The main issue is that ponzis are very similar to both other gambling sites and real investment sites, so it's difficult to create a category that includes exactly the right things. How about this:

Quote
Investor-based games
Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game. Also any Bitcoin-denominated investment product with an APR of 15% or more, which are similarly risky even if they're not actually paying interest using investor deposits.

Would this description cover any real investments or non-ponzi gambling sites? Would it fail to cover any ponzis that have existed in the Bitcoin ecosystem?

Also, are any actual users of the Gambling section irritated by this, or are people just trying to hide this kind of game? Is anyone against the creation of this section?
Most definitely there are people against the whole idea of a ponzi. SOME ponzi's have the ability to store 10's, 100's or 1000's of BTC like cryptodouble did and rob users in the end. The community needs to figure out trust system if you want to make this section work or else no one will know what is legitimate or what is not.
See my thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923461.msg10135856#msg10135856

I hope that you do make this section, but at the same time organise how you will flag the scams and how you will flag legitimate sites. Just like this forum, if everyone has a negative trust rating here no one will know who is a scammer and who is not. That is EXACTLY the situation this section will go through if all of these biased and default ratings continue.
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January 13, 2015, 01:04:24 PM
 #33

I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.
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January 13, 2015, 01:10:52 PM
 #34

And there is about to be a jihad in /meta by a bunch of loyal /marketplace/gambling old-schoolers who are pissed off our forum has been taken over by a few (but growing) Ponzi operators advertising for free and making many copies of themselves to almost completely cover the 1st page in Ponzi threads.

it's embarrassing to bitcoin gambling and should be embarrassing to the forum moderators.  I've watched the entire bitcoin gambling industry spring from this one subforum.  Now we can't get anyone's ear to reclaim it from a 100 year old scam!  Imagine the frustration...

Anyway, the only proper solution I can think of is making a Marketplace>HYIP category and moving all ponzi / HYIP / "get this unpayable % every [short timeperiod]" to this subcat. 

Please return /marketplace/gambling to gambling.

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January 13, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
 #35

I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.

A lot of that is that they generate a lot of spam too, a lot of people constantly post links to "their" ponzi in other threads, people cross advertise, ponzi ops constantly bump their threads. Greedy shitbirds.

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January 13, 2015, 02:06:57 PM
 #36

Nope... it belongs to gambling because investing there you could win or lose... always there's a chance so its like gambling

This is happening since cryptodoble was a "success" to the scammer everyone just wanna get rich


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January 13, 2015, 02:13:13 PM
 #37

I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.

A lot of that is that they generate a lot of spam too, a lot of people constantly post links to "their" ponzi in other threads, people cross advertise, ponzi ops constantly bump their threads. Greedy shitbirds.
are most of them being started by the same people or are a lot of people trying to jump on this latest scam bandwagon that appearently works?

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January 13, 2015, 02:16:14 PM
Last edit: January 13, 2015, 03:22:10 PM by Welsh
 #38

I don't just blame the people who make them, I blame everyone taking part in them. Most people know exactly what they are and how they work. They don't care if they are promoting a scam scheme, as long as they get their money back. I tend to think any gambling is stupid, but Ponzi schemes are one leap beyond stupid.

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January 13, 2015, 02:59:57 PM
 #39

I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.

A lot of that is that they generate a lot of spam too, a lot of people constantly post links to "their" ponzi in other threads, people cross advertise, ponzi ops constantly bump their threads. Greedy shitbirds.
are most of them being started by the same people or are a lot of people trying to jump on this latest scam bandwagon that appearently works?

Little bit of everything.

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January 13, 2015, 03:46:27 PM
 #40

I just counted 21 ponzi topics in the first page of Gambling section. I won't visit that part anymore unless theymos edit forum.

A lot of that is that they generate a lot of spam too, a lot of people constantly post links to "their" ponzi in other threads, people cross advertise, ponzi ops constantly bump their threads. Greedy shitbirds.
are most of them being started by the same people or are a lot of people trying to jump on this latest scam bandwagon that appearently works?

Little bit of everything.

Not-so-little bit of everything.
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