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Author Topic: I think it's not fair to judge ponzi creators  (Read 1482 times)
yakuza699
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January 13, 2015, 08:05:38 PM
 #1

While I don't really support ponzi's and gambling in general(unless it's for fun) I don't think it is fair to judge ponzi creators for being a scammer. If you look at every single one of the ponzi creators you can see negative trust. I think if an owner clearly states that it's ponzi(not like cough pbmining cough) and you can loose money on it(and If he puts it on the gambling section) it's unfair to add negative trust and I would say it's trust abusing. Why don't you add negative trust to casino operators? You will still loose money on casino why do they have no negative trust? Because they run a legit business? You gamble on both either it would be ponzi or a casino so why one of them has neg trust? Are you adding neg trust to ponzi creators because they are newly created accounts and they will eventually run away with the coins? In that case I kinda agree. But there might be legit owners who are intent to earn money by taking fee and not by stealing.

Again while I don't support ponzi's I might be willing to open one too and I think it's abusing to add negative trust to the owner's(I don't want to get neg trust bombed while just wanting to make profit from commissions)

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January 13, 2015, 09:29:09 PM
 #2

Casino is different from a Ponzi, why would you even compare the two?

Oh wait you're going to put up 1.. no point debating over it
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January 13, 2015, 09:30:44 PM
 #3

Casino is different from a Ponzi, why would you even compare the two?

Oh wait you're going to put up 1.. no point debating over it

Looks like it. He(yakuza) is probably trying to play the game so people come to an agreement that negative trust shouldn't be awarded, then he can open one with his account, probably because a ponzi account by a hero member would be considered more safe.

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January 13, 2015, 09:34:27 PM
 #4

Casino is different from a Ponzi, why would you even compare the two?

Oh wait you're going to put up 1.. no point debating over it

He sneaks it in the end that he might open one up  Grin

All the ponzis are scams. I dont care how you word it. Use a new account like all the rest because you will become red.
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January 13, 2015, 09:52:46 PM
 #5

While I don't really support ponzi's and gambling in general(unless it's for fun) I don't think it is fair to judge ponzi creators for being a scammer. If you look at every single one of the ponzi creators you can see negative trust. I think if an owner clearly states that it's ponzi(not like cough pbmining cough) and you can loose money on it(and If he puts it on the gambling section) it's unfair to add negative trust and I would say it's trust abusing. Why don't you add negative trust to casino operators? You will still loose money on casino why do they have no negative trust? Because they run a legit business? You gamble on both either it would be ponzi or a casino so why one of them has neg trust? Are you adding neg trust to ponzi creators because they are newly created accounts and they will eventually run away with the coins? In that case I kinda agree. But there might be legit owners who are intent to earn money by taking fee and not by stealing.

Again while I don't support ponzi's I might be willing to open one too and I think it's abusing to add negative trust to the owner's(I don't want to get neg trust bombed while just wanting to make profit from commissions)

#1 this should be in meta
#2 there allready is a thread regarding the legitimacy of ponzis in meta[1]. Quickseller perfectly summed it up.
#3 they all claim to be legit, but none of them have the balls to actually risk their main account for their "legit" bussiness.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923461.0
yakuza699
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January 13, 2015, 09:56:18 PM
 #6

Looks like it. He(yakuza) is probably trying to play the game so people come to an agreement that negative trust shouldn't be awarded, then he can open one with his account, probably because a ponzi account by a hero member would be considered more safe.
Well the reason I made this topic was to make people thing ponzi as a gambling and not scamming.
He sneaks it in the end that he might open one up  Grin

All the ponzis are scams. I dont care how you word it. Use a new account like all the rest because you will become red.
All the ponzis are scam if at the end they disappear the ponzi opened with hero member account will almost eliminate the competition and the fact that I am free to use escrow to store the cold storage funds will eliminate the competition completely.

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noma
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January 13, 2015, 09:58:41 PM
 #7

Looks like it. He(yakuza) is probably trying to play the game so people come to an agreement that negative trust shouldn't be awarded, then he can open one with his account, probably because a ponzi account by a hero member would be considered more safe.
Well the reason I made this topic was to make people thing ponzi as a gambling and not scamming.


But I see most of them ending up as scams, so just because 1 or 2 might be legit for a short time is still outweighed by the fact that 90% of them are ending as scams.

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January 13, 2015, 09:59:31 PM
 #8

one of the bigger ponzis like cryptodouble closed today, and they got over 55 btc.. yeah thats a bit ridiculous.

And just like everything poof they are gone.
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January 13, 2015, 10:03:55 PM
 #9

one of the bigger ponzis like cryptodouble closed today, and they got over 55 btc.. yeah thats a bit ridiculous.

And just like everything poof they are gone.

do you honestly think a ponzi will run for ever?  come on again why do you have to baby people. they know what it is, let them gamble their btc.

just like you dont stop the person infront of you buying lottery tickets.
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January 13, 2015, 10:12:01 PM
 #10

one of the bigger ponzis like cryptodouble closed today, and they got over 55 btc.. yeah thats a bit ridiculous.

And just like everything poof they are gone.

Its easy for them just to create another service similar to it and have people fall into their scam .
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January 13, 2015, 10:15:34 PM
 #11

Looks like it. He(yakuza) is probably trying to play the game so people come to an agreement that negative trust shouldn't be awarded, then he can open one with his account, probably because a ponzi account by a hero member would be considered more safe.
Well the reason I made this topic was to make people thing ponzi as a gambling and not scamming.
He sneaks it in the end that he might open one up  Grin

All the ponzis are scams. I dont care how you word it. Use a new account like all the rest because you will become red.
All the ponzis are scam if at the end they disappear the ponzi opened with hero member account will almost eliminate the competition and the fact that I am free to use escrow to store the cold storage funds will eliminate the competition completely.

They HAVE to disappear because eventually they can't pay all the investors! That's why it's unsustainable!
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January 14, 2015, 01:34:30 PM
 #12

one of the bigger ponzis like cryptodouble closed today, and they got over 55 btc.. yeah thats a bit ridiculous.

And just like everything poof they are gone.
Didn't they lost 1000BTC?
They HAVE to disappear because eventually they can't pay all the investors! That's why it's unsustainable!
Why disappear just end the round and start another one offcourse some of the investors will loose but again the knew it at the start.

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January 14, 2015, 03:06:58 PM
 #13

one of the bigger ponzis like cryptodouble closed today, and they got over 55 btc.. yeah thats a bit ridiculous.

And just like everything poof they are gone.
Didn't they lost 1000BTC?
They HAVE to disappear because eventually they can't pay all the investors! That's why it's unsustainable!
Why disappear just end the round and start another one offcourse some of the investors will loose but again the knew it at the start.
5% or something as a commission sure doesn't seem much but numbers combined indeed takes it to ridiculous numbers. It's called taking advantage of stupid people, so we can't really blame the Ponzi runners.
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January 14, 2015, 06:53:46 PM
 #14

what I dont get is, if the ponzi creators from cyrpto double wanted to make a lot, was to keep feeding small returns on certain deposits, then close shop when the bigger deposits roll in like 100 btc deposit or up.
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January 14, 2015, 07:10:09 PM
 #15

Ponzi is operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors. When they don't, they are scammer.

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January 14, 2015, 07:29:17 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2015, 03:51:14 PM by tmfp
 #16

There are problems with definition here.
A Ponzi scheme is a fraud where the operator lies about the source of the funds he uses to pay his investors their promised return. Instead of trading he simply pays old investors with new investors money.
A "ponzi game" of rounds based on this principle, where everyone is aware that at the end of a round some people will be paid and some won't, is something totally different, BUT
It still has potential to be a fraud because there is no transparency about the owner of the early money, which could well belong to the operator.
Until there is some sort of equivalent to dice's "provably fair" for these games then they should be treated as scams just like "conventional" Ponzis.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
yakuza699
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January 15, 2015, 01:55:12 PM
 #17

Until there is some sort of equivalent to dice's "provably fair" for these games then they should be treated as scams just like "conventional" Ponzis.
I am planning to open a ponzi(the gambling one not the lying) site myself the rules will be different and it doesn't really look like a ponzi(expect that the early ones get a bit of advantage).I am not sure how to make it provably fair I can for sure list transaction hashes(ingoing and outgoing) the game would be in rounds.What I mean by that is that there will be a feature to choose from one out of many rounds(1 hour 2 hour 10 hour ETC.) and the payouts will be manual for the first few days because I will make a 2-3 msig address (one is mine and the reaming ones are escrow ones) and maybe after time I will be making payouts from my own pocket(but you will still pay to an address that escrow's control).Maybe like opening the round and not letting any transactions in(if they still send it,that it would be returned) for few mins would help(to prove that the owner cannot take any advantage and everyone has the same chance of being first). Any other ideas?

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January 16, 2015, 11:45:50 AM
 #18

Maybe like opening the round and not letting any transactions in(if they still send it,that it would be returned) for few mins would help(to prove that the owner cannot take any advantage and everyone has the same chance of being first). Any other ideas?

I can imagine what will happen here ... everyone will pile in the second the round opens and after that nobody will put in any more money for the rest of the round.
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January 16, 2015, 11:55:15 AM
 #19

Maybe like opening the round and not letting any transactions in(if they still send it,that it would be returned) for few mins would help(to prove that the owner cannot take any advantage and everyone has the same chance of being first). Any other ideas?

I can imagine what will happen here ... everyone will pile in the second the round opens and after that nobody will put in any more money for the rest of the round.

The operator can easily write some doo dad (technical term) to ensure that the bulk of the early money is his. How do you stop that?

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January 16, 2015, 12:33:30 PM
 #20

what I dont get is, if the ponzi creators from cyrpto double wanted to make a lot, was to keep feeding small returns on certain deposits, then close shop when the bigger deposits roll in like 100 btc deposit or up.

Thats what a lot of them do. They offer returns in the start, then suddenly close business if someone invests over 1 BTC .
After this they simply restart with another name .
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January 16, 2015, 12:39:16 PM
 #21

what I dont get is, if the ponzi creators from cyrpto double wanted to make a lot, was to keep feeding small returns on certain deposits, then close shop when the bigger deposits roll in like 100 btc deposit or up.

Or they play it out rake in a high amount of fees, an unknown amount of scammed joins (from payouts to self) and dont even have to hide. Sounds like the perfect crime.
yakuza699
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January 16, 2015, 01:09:07 PM
Last edit: January 16, 2015, 05:24:14 PM by yakuza699
 #22

I can imagine what will happen here ... everyone will pile in the second the round opens and after that nobody will put in any more money for the rest of the round.
Actually not I have a unique idea which sounds really fun and has never been implemented before.
The operator can easily write some doo dad (technical term) to ensure that the bulk of the early money is his. How do you stop that?
In that case there in no way to prevent this the operator and gamblers takes the same risk and has the same chance of having most of the funds on the top.
Or they play it out rake in a high amount of fees, an unknown amount of scammed joins (from payouts to self) and dont even have to hide. Sounds like the perfect crime.
I realized that I will make far more in along run from fees than I will earn from scaming and running with the coins so I am not afraid to do all the business with the most trusted escrow here. Would you still add negative trust for me?

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January 16, 2015, 11:20:15 PM
 #23

They unbelievably shady is the problem. Gambling is fine if it's from a reputable vendor, ie LuckyB.it  Wink But realistically, they're ran by people that can not be trusted. If you are telling people they can loose their money, it's not unjust to just run away with some as it's almost expected to be this way with ponzi's. It's in everyone's best interest that Ponzi creators are negative trusted. Newbies entering the forum can easily be persuaded by the big bold letters that mask the enormous risk involved.
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January 18, 2015, 02:26:52 PM
 #24

Casino is different from a Ponzi, why would you even compare the two?

Oh wait you're going to put up 1.. no point debating over it

ROFL ... exactly !

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