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Author Topic: XRP ( RIPPLE ) Discussion - All about XRP  (Read 6305 times)
hypostatization
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January 18, 2015, 08:10:26 PM
 #21

Indeed - the real market cap is much less than what coinmarketcap shows which is just the total 100Bn XRP - the 69% that Ripple Labs holds. If Larsen, Britto and McCaleb were to sell their XRP into the market, then the price would plummet. The true market cap is more like $160m or 1/3 of that currently showing on coinmarketcap.

I addressed founder allocation concerns earlier in this thread. it may be useful info if you are not aware of more recent developments.

In general, I think market cap is a pretty useless metric. It all comes down to how specific sites decide to calculate market capitalization, and valid arguments exist regarding the flaws and trade-offs of all the varied methods.

It seems you are suggesting that the coinmarketcap.com homepage calculates XRP market cap according to the full ~100Bn XRP supply. If you check the Available Supply column, you will see coinmarketcap.com is using solely the number of XRP not held by Ripple Labs.

If you would like to see the marketp cap calculation result based on all XRP (total supply), you can view that by switching to the Total Supply display, by using the Currencies tab dropdown. I believe coinmarketcap.com is already showing the 1/3rd value of the total supply that you believe is most accurate.

Coinmarketcap.com previously used the full ~100Bn XRP (total supply) for its calculation, which has led to frequent confusion.

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January 18, 2015, 08:19:27 PM
 #22

Indeed - the real market cap is much less than what coinmarketcap shows which is just the total 100Bn XRP - the 69% that Ripple Labs holds. If Larsen, Britto and McCaleb were to sell their XRP into the market, then the price would plummet. The true market cap is more like $160m or 1/3 of that currently showing on coinmarketcap.

I addressed founder allocation concerns earlier in this thread. it may be useful info if you are not aware of more recent developments.

In general, I think market cap is a pretty useless metric. It all comes down to how specific sites decide to calculate market capitalization, and valid arguments exist regarding the flaws and trade-offs of all the varied methods.

It seems you are suggesting that the coinmarketcap.com homepage calculates XRP market cap according to the full ~100Bn XRP supply. If you check the Available Supply column, you will see coinmarketcap.com is using solely the number of XRP not held by Ripple Labs.

If you would like to see the marketp cap calculation result based on all XRP (total supply), you can view that by switching to the Total Supply display, by using the Currencies tab dropdown. I believe coinmarketcap.com is already showing the 1/3rd value of the total supply that you believe is most accurate.

Coinmarketcap.com previously used the full ~100Bn XRP (total supply) for its calculation, which has led to frequent confusion.

Agree fully.

I just use conmarketcap.com as an indicator.

I find coingecko.com useful too. Ripple is only listed #4 there (their algorithm doesn't seem to realise that the discussion takes place on xrptalk.org whereas the formal talk goes on at forum.ripple.com; hence the ridiculous "Community" rating they give Ripple)
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January 18, 2015, 09:16:16 PM
 #23

I agree that coinmarketcap.com is weak. I am most interested in the Total Network Value metric on ripplecharts.com, for long term network growth perspective. It reflects not only the value of XRP, but also the total value of assets traded on the network. I am not focused on short term speculation, however, so it may be a less useful metric for others.

I disagree that the breadth of XRP utility limits its potential exchange value. XRP can be used to make payments directly, the same as with any cryptocurrency. Everything else is in addition. If Bitcoin added multi-currency support---requiring the usage of BTC for that functionality---I would consider that a plus in support of BTC's future potential exchange value. In no way does XRP providing that utility guarantee the price will rise, but it does introduce additional future potential justification for a rise in exchange value.

I'm not invested in ripple atm but do agree, I think it only takes a glance at ripple to see they have the formula for success, all the right people on board and all the right palms ready to grease. even if what we have today is a bastardization of fuggers original vision, it's understandable why RL took the approach they have. They're operating at levels litecoin-fork shitcoin creators couldn't dream of and got VC cash to burn through, partnerships on tables, keynotes to deliver. They will be operating like a well oiled machine, marching forward strategically while people here are still stuck on digging out dogcoins with dusty gpu's hoping to get rich

I see ripple/btc a bit like money & antimoney http://phys.org/news/2014-04-econophysics-antimoney-financial-crisis.html Both can be complimentary and Ripple has some obvious direct benefits and some non-obvious benefits to traditional finance system for an average guy that end up trickling down, giving rl themselves a good value proposition. The kind of infrastructure they have built, the kinds of people they can appease with their polish is more favorable as a natural evolution or re-vision of legacy finance system than bitcoin is, although btc-> bank bridge like epiphyte for bitcoin helps a little.  

 I see no reason that the market, especially big players won't drive price this 'anti-spam' token up further than they have already, it's the closest they have to shares in the ripple protocol actually using xrp directly as a 'currency' is a further stretch, Even bitcoin suffers the same pitfalls, switching between a hoarded commodity and currency. Suppose at the end of the day anything can happen- all it takes is a combined belief of many.

What's your opinion on projects like hyperledger that could do the same thing as ripplewithout the need for a stake of bridge currency controlled majorly by relatively few though?

As to the alternate currency on bitcoin approach, it's gaining a little traction https://xrptalk.org/topic/4480-gateway-concept-is-spreading/ it's haphazard and immature now but developments on sidechains could allow for further experimentation

also since you seem knowledgable about ripple, I see a lot of  fluffer/spam activity on the books (particularly during price increases)

e.g:





e.g:
do you think this RL's contracted market makers on crack or independent actors, could you see a reason for this behavior?

Also this, are you aware of this being addressed?
https://forum.ripple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8668





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January 18, 2015, 09:24:20 PM
 #24

In the past, Andolfatto has been bearish on bitcoin as a currency, arguing that distributed "payment systems like Ripple come closest to unlocking the full power of bitcoin’s original ledger."
http://www.coindesk.com/federal-reserve-bank-vp-protocol-just-like-bitcoin/
hypostatization
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January 18, 2015, 10:14:23 PM
 #25

What's your opinion on projects like hyperledger that could do the same thing without the need for a stake of bridge currency controlled majorly by relatively few though?

I am not familiar enough with hyperledger to have an informed opinion. All that I can say is that it will be awesome as more competition moves into implementation and adoption phases.

Ample opportunity for innovation exists right now. I think Ripple has a lead on adoption and implementation maturity, but the future is open---and I expect increased competition. As people begin to thoroughly understand all that Ripple offers---and why it is attractive for solving financial problems that exist today---I hope to see more people building upon its fundamental concepts.

I am hopeful for technologies like Ripple to level the playing field between individuals and FIs. I recently read about the 1970s Irish Banking Crisis, and am left wondering how systems like Ripple and Codius could fill in the gaps. I would like to see Ripple succeed, personally, but any systems that get us there are a good thing.

As to the alternate currency on bitcoin approach, it's gaining a little traction https://xrptalk.org/topic/4480-gateway-concept-is-spreading/ it's haphazard and immature now but developments on sidechains could allow for further experimentation

Good stuff. I have a lot of excitement for the potential of 2 way pegging and smart contracts.

also since you seem knowledgable about ripple, I see a lot of  fluffer/spam activity on the books (particularly during price increases)

e.g:

<snip-of-images />

e.g:
do you think this RL's contracted market makers on crack or independent actors, could you see a reason for this behavior?

Also this, are you aware of this being addressed?
https://forum.ripple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8668

I suspect poorly coded bots or intelligently coded bots designed to mess with poorly coded bots and day traders. I lean toward independent actors being the source, but that is purely speculation.

At the moment, I believe Ripple Labs is targeting solving the spam and unfunded orders concerns or on the client side. I believe it is a problem that needs to be solved.

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January 18, 2015, 10:58:24 PM
 #26

<snip>

Ample opportunity for innovation exists right now. I think Ripple has a lead on adoption and implementation maturity, but the future is open---and I expect increased competition. As people begin to thoroughly understand all that Ripple offers---and why it is attractive for solving financial problems that exist today---I hope to see more people building upon its fundamental concepts.

I am hopeful for technologies like Ripple to level the playing field between individuals and FIs. I recently read about the 1970s Irish Banking Crisis, and am left wondering how systems like Ripple and Codius could fill in the gaps. I would like to see Ripple succeed, personally, but any systems that get us there are a good thing.


Ripple really has moved away from creating features desired by and supporting the individual. https://ripple.com/integrate/executive-summary-for-financial-institutions/#Who can use Ripple

"Who can use Ripple?
Ripple is designed to be used directly by interbank payment network members and operators and by liquidity providers; but not directly by end-users (e.g. consumers). This is similar to how payment infrastructure is used today."

This doesn't seem to me like the kind of product that will really change the world, besides reducing bank costs and speeding up interbank payments. Banks have no interest in freeing consumers to be able to perform digital transactions between parties where the bank doesn't know all parties involved - something that Bitcoin excels at. I'm not saying that Ripple is useless or that it's not an evolutionary step forward from where ACH/SWIFT is today, but that it certainly doesn't compete against Bitcoin when it comes to either a store of value (investment) or end user payment service.

(I've held XRPs from time to time, not a hater, but not a Kool-AidTM convert either.

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January 18, 2015, 11:03:56 PM
 #27

Indeed - the real market cap is much less than what coinmarketcap shows which is just the total 100Bn XRP - the 69% that Ripple Labs holds. If Larsen, Britto and McCaleb were to sell their XRP into the market, then the price would plummet. The true market cap is more like $160m or 1/3 of that currently showing on coinmarketcap.

I addressed founder allocation concerns earlier in this thread. it may be useful info if you are not aware of more recent developments.

In general, I think market cap is a pretty useless metric. It all comes down to how specific sites decide to calculate market capitalization, and valid arguments exist regarding the flaws and trade-offs of all the varied methods.

It seems you are suggesting that the coinmarketcap.com homepage calculates XRP market cap according to the full ~100Bn XRP supply. If you check the Available Supply column, you will see coinmarketcap.com is using solely the number of XRP not held by Ripple Labs.

If you would like to see the marketp cap calculation result based on all XRP (total supply), you can view that by switching to the Total Supply display, by using the Currencies tab dropdown. I believe coinmarketcap.com is already showing the 1/3rd value of the total supply that you believe is most accurate.

Coinmarketcap.com previously used the full ~100Bn XRP (total supply) for its calculation, which has led to frequent confusion.

I understand that Coinmarketcap used to use the full ~ 100Bn XRP supply for the calculation, which was ridiculous since most of it wasn't available for trading. I am saying that the current 31Bn used by Coinmarketcap is also off by a full 66% since ~ 20Bn XRP are locked up with 3 owners and not available for general trading. Sure, one could argue that the 7% held by Satoshi isn't available for general trading as well, but I'll take the 7% held by Satoshi vs the 66% of the 31Bn held by 3 people any day when comparing real market caps.

That's why I say that the ~$480m market cap should really be closer to the $160m that actually trades hands and isn't locked up (even temporarily).

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January 18, 2015, 11:08:36 PM
 #28

Point taken about market cap.

At what point will Bitcoin start getting worried about Ripple's market cap?
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January 19, 2015, 01:00:54 AM
 #29

Point taken about market cap.

At what point will Bitcoin start getting worried about Ripple's market cap?

I would probably say that adoption would be a bigger concern than market cap. If massive companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, PayPal etc start getting hundreds of millions of users using Ripple powered IOU tokens while BTC ends up being a niche product with far fewer users, integrated with fewer modern financial services companies (PayPal, Apple, etc), then I'll be concerned.

In terms of pure market cap, I would take a greater note of XRP as a store of value when 50% of it is in end user hands - about 5X from the 10% distribution where we are today.

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May 07, 2015, 12:25:43 PM
 #30

XRP price is now about 30,000 per BTC.
With Fidor Bank and other transaction processes also being reviewed for suitability on the network, I expect the price to go up 10-fold this year.
Also note they were picked up for missing AML processes by FINCEN last week..
Any thoughts
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May 07, 2015, 12:39:07 PM
 #31

XRP price is now about 30,000 per BTC.
With Fidor Bank and other transaction processes also being reviewed for suitability on the network, I expect the price to go up 10-fold this year.
Also note they were picked up for missing AML processes by FINCEN last week..
Any thoughts

Get your family to use their life savings on XRP then.  You'll all be rich.

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May 07, 2015, 01:39:25 PM
 #32

I think right now RIPple is in trouble, maybe they manage to surpass it.
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May 07, 2015, 05:07:00 PM
 #33

Hey Tokeweed, your sarcastic tone has no future here. Youve been reported. Step off.
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May 10, 2015, 06:03:33 PM
 #34

I think right now RIPple is in trouble, maybe they manage to surpass it.

You made an assertion with zero evidence. Ripple are doing very well thank you very much. You might even join the party one of these days.
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May 11, 2015, 12:08:03 AM
 #35

I think right now RIPple is in trouble, maybe they manage to surpass it.

You made an assertion with zero evidence. Ripple are doing very well thank you very much. You might even join the party one of these days.

He's referring to the big fine FINCEN gave them recently.

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May 11, 2015, 12:45:38 AM
 #36

After FINCEN fined Ripple Labs and is telling them what to do with Ripple...  Ripple as a protocol is gone.  It is Paypal 2.0.  Sell.

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May 11, 2015, 02:39:18 AM
 #37

Uh oh......bitcointalk is advising to sell XRP. You know what happens next.

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May 11, 2015, 07:42:25 AM
 #38

An uptrend? Grin

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Eamorr
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May 11, 2015, 03:15:07 PM
 #39

After FINCEN fined Ripple Labs and is telling them what to do with Ripple...  Ripple as a protocol is gone.  It is Paypal 2.0.  Sell.

Ridiculous comparison.

Ripple are compliant and are focused 100% on fitting into existing legal systems and regulatory environments. Bitcoin operators must be looking at FinCEN and get very scared at the consequences of new laws and regulatory muscle flexing. This is only the beginning.

Anyway, Ripple Labs isn't interested in explaining to people like you (Bitcoin zealots) how Ripple's technology works, what Ripple Labs are doing and what's coming down the tracks. In fact, they aren't interested in polluting their ecosystem with Bitcoin zealots because they've seen what has happened to the Bitcoin community and don't want to repeat the same mistakes. Go have your own anonymous, decentralized, untraceable fantasy world built on 2008 technology; but nobody is going to participate in this anarchist hippie commune Utopia because guess what? Nobody wants to!
canth
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May 11, 2015, 09:44:53 PM
 #40

After FINCEN fined Ripple Labs and is telling them what to do with Ripple...  Ripple as a protocol is gone.  It is Paypal 2.0.  Sell.

Ridiculous comparison.

Ripple are compliant and are focused 100% on fitting into existing legal systems and regulatory environments. Bitcoin operators must be looking at FinCEN and get very scared at the consequences of new laws and regulatory muscle flexing. This is only the beginning.

Anyway, Ripple Labs isn't interested in explaining to people like you (Bitcoin zealots) how Ripple's technology works, what Ripple Labs are doing and what's coming down the tracks. In fact, they aren't interested in polluting their ecosystem with Bitcoin zealots because they've seen what has happened to the Bitcoin community and don't want to repeat the same mistakes. Go have your own anonymous, decentralized, untraceable fantasy world built on 2008 technology; but nobody is going to participate in this anarchist hippie commune Utopia because guess what? Nobody wants to!

So ask yourself this, how come you're on anarchist-hippie-commune-Utuopia-talk.org rather than forum.ripple.com? I agree that Ripple Labs isn't interested in gaining traction with Bitcoiners, so why are you bothering to argue it out here? Oh, because Bitcoin has 50X the volume, users and interest.

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