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Author Topic: [NEW MINING CLASS] MSCoins - POW coins withing Nxt's POS ecosystem  (Read 9351 times)
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Daedelus
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January 19, 2015, 12:54:08 PM
Last edit: March 10, 2015, 12:05:42 AM by Daedelus
 #1

TL:DR:


On the 10th January, Nxt launched the long awaited Monetary System feature.

This allows POW coins to be mined inside Nxt's POS system and is a first. The name for this class of minable coins have been called MSCoins.

So, the steps to follow are:

1) Download the latest Nxt software to be able to connect to the network. Select the latest version from here: https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/
2a) For CPU windows, follow the instructions here: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/how-to-setup-miner-for-windows/
2b) For GPU guys, start here: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/nxtmint-java-minter/
3) Choose your MScoin to mine. EGOLD, ELEMS or any other from: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/
4) Take care not to set your rig up to burn though your Nxt in fees. A balance has to be struck between how many coins you mine and how frequently. A fee is paid for each successful mine, to record it in the blockchain. Mine 1 coin every min will cost 1Nxt/minute and you won't be making anything when you try to sell for profit. Understand this point before your start. It would be better to mint 50 or 100 coins at a time, it will take longer but you pay much much less in fees.

5) Get mining!

I am here for questioning.
***

Extra information:

There is a learning curve and you have to know what you are doing before you start, but the rewards are there for the early adopters of this new and growing mining class.


For those who are willing to take the plunge, more information on how to get started can be found here for CPUs on windows: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/how-to-setup-miner-for-windows/


There are already POW coins that are well known in Nxt and being mined as they were the first, with more being added everyday:

EGOLD - https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/(ann)-egold-1st-mintable-keccak25-coin-zero-premint/

ELEMS - https://nxtforum.org/elems/(ann)-elems-1st-mintable-scrypt-coin-no-initial-supply-fair-distibution/

SILVR - https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/(ann)-silvr-1st-mintable-ms-copycoin-keccak25-asic-proof-mining-low-diff/


Full list of MSCoins [ANN]s can be found here (not all are mineable): https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/



You will need a small amount of Nxt to pay transaction fees, which you can mine at hashrate.org or buy them on BTER/BTC38/Cryptsy/HitBTC/Poloniex/Bittrex.


Those who want to GPU mine, there has already been the first GPU miner developed: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/nxtmint-java-minter/


So, the steps to follow are:

1) Download the latest Nxt software to be able to connect to the network. Select the latest version from here: https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/
2a) For CPU windows, follow the instructions here: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/how-to-setup-miner-for-windows/
2b) For GPU guys, start here: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/nxtmint-java-minter/
3) Choose you MScoin to mine. EGOLD, ELEMS or any other from: https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system-153/
4) Take care not to set your rig up to burn though your Nxt in fees. A balance has to be struck between how many coins you mine and how frequently. A fee is paid for each successful mine, to record it in the blockchain. Mine 1 coin every min will cost 1Nxt/minute and you won't be making anything when you try to sell for profit. Understand this point before your start. It would be better to mint 50 or 100 coins at a time, it will take longer but you pay much less in fees.

5) Get mining!



Those on Linux, Mac etc. I am willing to help you get up and running and be a point of contact to get some help from others as required.


Please ask questions if you are unsure. This is a new and growing opportunity for miners.
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January 19, 2015, 03:30:09 PM
 #2

Network is secured by Proof-of-Stake but repartition of coins by Proof-of-Work!

That's a new paradigm in the altcoin/crypto universe.


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January 19, 2015, 04:05:58 PM
 #3

Network is secured by Proof-of-Stake but repartition of coins by Proof-of-Work!

That's a new paradigm in the altcoin/crypto universe.

So the PoW is just for coin distribution?
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January 19, 2015, 04:07:03 PM
 #4

Network is secured by Proof-of-Stake but repartition of coins by Proof-of-Work!

That's a new paradigm in the altcoin/crypto universe.

So the PoW is just for coin distribution?

Yes.
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January 19, 2015, 04:10:53 PM
 #5

Network is secured by Proof-of-Stake but repartition of coins by Proof-of-Work!

That's a new paradigm in the altcoin/crypto universe.

So the PoW is just for coin distribution?

Yes.

Kinda useless then. The flaw of PoW (and PoS for that matter) is the flaw of capitalism: loads of money makes more money. But it has one unique quality: securing a decentralized blockchain.
This leaves the good part out and you're only left with a competitive game, in which the small fries can only squirm.

Can someone counter this argument? I don't see a need for artificial coin distribution, but maybe there is.
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January 19, 2015, 04:14:11 PM
 #6

You got it spot on, however what alternative is there for the small fish to be able to compete/get their "fair" share? I've been thinking about it for a while now and haven't figured out any other alternative. It's easy to point out flaws in the distribution system, it is much harder to fix them.
Network is secured by Proof-of-Stake but repartition of coins by Proof-of-Work!

That's a new paradigm in the altcoin/crypto universe.

So the PoW is just for coin distribution?

Yes.

Kinda useless then. The flaw of PoW (and PoS for that matter) is the flaw of capitalism: loads of money makes more money. But it has one unique quality: securing a decentralized blockchain.
This leaves the good part out and you're only left with a competitive game, in which the small fries can only squirm.

Can someone counter this argument? I don't see a need for artificial coin distribution, but maybe there is.

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January 19, 2015, 04:18:48 PM
 #7

You got it spot on, however what alternative is there for the small fish to be able to compete/get their "fair" share? I've been thinking about it for a while now and haven't figured out any other alternative. It's easy to point out flaws in the distribution system, it is much harder to fix them.

Haha, yeah. I've had loads of thoughts about it too, but it seems pretty hard to solve.
PoW, as in Bitcoin, is not it. We've seen what ASICs are doing ATM, you can only get an efficient setup if you throw loads of money at it.
Cloudmining generally tends to lean to "Ponzi mining". CEX.IO was doing it the right way, but they had to quit because of profits being lower than maintenance fees. Cloud mining suffers from the same flaws, in the backend, as PoW, because that's what it is Tongue (If it isn't Ponzi mining)
Artificial PoW as in Burst or these MSCoins are far from what would be ideal. Same flaws as PoW, but are less robust, higher-level. So feel free to partake in such an experiment, but see it as that. It will needs loads of evolution before an MSCoin can become really big (and I'm not talking about a temporary PnD, or even the price).

Current PoS implementations can be better, but there's still loads of work to do. High % PoS has fierce difficulty levels. Low % PoS don't distribute that much coins but tend to give it more to low stakeholders. I can see PoS is the way to go, needs some finetuning though Smiley
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January 19, 2015, 04:20:31 PM
 #8

Kinda useless then. The flaw of PoW (and PoS for that matter) is the flaw of capitalism: loads of money makes more money. But it has one unique quality: securing a decentralized blockchain.
This leaves the good part out and you're only left with a competitive game, in which the small fries can only squirm.

Can someone counter this argument? I don't see a need for artificial coin distribution, but maybe there is.

That really depends if you consider POS secure. If you do, then PoW is completely useless by your logic.

I would say though, that for Bitcoin the opposite was true. PoW was created specifically for distribution. Else Satoshi would have had all the coins, and needed to sell them (which would rely on trust/banking).
You could argue that that is also less the case by now: New POS currencies can use Bitcoin for distribution.
Not sure, but I think there is even a quote by Satoshi - where he calls Bitcoin the bootstrapping currency.
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January 19, 2015, 08:20:31 PM
Last edit: January 25, 2015, 09:50:27 AM by Daedelus
 #9

First of all, POW mining is only one of Nxt's Monetary System use cases. There are five properties to choose and mix: Controllable, Reservable, Claimable, Mintable, Non-Shufflable.

You can use these to create stores of value (locking Nxt into the creation creates a floor price), crowdfunding (funds returned automatically if target isn't reached by a certain block) and secure retail vouchers (tokens can only be set to and from the issuing account). See here for more information: http://nxter.org/nxt-core-monetary-system/ and https://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Monetary_System


There is nothing artificial about the work done in MSCoin POW. And the more hashpower will get you more coins. Also don't mistake this for a change to Nxt, it's security is still 100% POS.


How about a POS without any inflation? After all, even small amounts of inflation erodes value over the long term.



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January 21, 2015, 09:14:48 AM
 #10

I see in some of the ANN threads that there are some happy customers coming through  Grin

Does anyone need help getting started?
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January 23, 2015, 09:17:23 AM
 #11

The NxtMinter GPU mining thread is on fire!  Grin Still working out some kinks I think though for using multiple cards.


Anyone CPU mining got any feedback? Always keen to make improvements.
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January 25, 2015, 09:52:05 AM
 #12

Profitabilty calculations on one MSCoin shows they are making $26/day, check the stats yourself in the blockchain

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935083
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January 25, 2015, 09:09:56 PM
 #13

Daedelus and there is a video guide, I'm just reading can not do it Angry

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P H O R E

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January 26, 2015, 12:07:36 AM
 #14

I can't mine....

I bought some nxt on Bittrex....but the system says I need 1440 confirmations for my coins....Huh

Is this normal ?
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January 26, 2015, 01:03:55 AM
 #15

Nd I'm getting this error :

Code:
SEVERE Main.main: Exception during program initialization
.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 0, Size: 0
t java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
t java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
t org.ScripterRon.NxtMint.Main.main(Main.java:296)
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January 26, 2015, 01:11:25 AM
 #16

I can't mine....

I bought some nxt on Bittrex....but the system says I need 1440 confirmations for my coins....Huh

Is this normal ?

That seems rather excessive.  Try http://shapeshift.io, it doesn't get much faster.


Nd I'm getting this error :

Code:
SEVERE Main.main: Exception during program initialization
.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 0, Size: 0
t java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
t java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
t org.ScripterRon.NxtMint.Main.main(Main.java:296)

Does your NxtMint.conf file have two parameters for the gpuDevice line?

For non-Scrypt hashing (i.e. EGOLD) it should be something like:
gpuDevice=0,256

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January 26, 2015, 01:25:43 AM
Last edit: January 26, 2015, 02:12:11 AM by Ziploc
 #17

I can't mine....

I bought some nxt on Bittrex....but the system says I need 1440 confirmations for my coins....Huh

Is this normal ?

That seems rather excessive.  Try http://shapeshift.io, it doesn't get much faster.


Nd I'm getting this error :

Code:
SEVERE Main.main: Exception during program initialization
.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 0, Size: 0
t java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
t java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
t org.ScripterRon.NxtMint.Main.main(Main.java:296)

Does your NxtMint.conf file have two parameters for the gpuDevice line?

For non-Scrypt hashing (i.e. EGOLD) it should be something like:
gpuDevice=0,256

thx that solved the problem

but i still need 1440 confirmations for mature coins....
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January 26, 2015, 04:29:05 AM
 #18

to mint mscoins you do not need any more than 1 confirmations of your nxt in your wallet.

remember to change the minting settings


1.Locate nxt-default.properties file in nxt-client-1.4.7.1\nxt\conf folder
2.Copy paste this file and rename it to nxt.properties
3. Open the file, locate the parameter below and change them accordingly:


Configuration:
nxt.mint.serverAddress=localhost
nxt.mint.currencyCode=EGOLD
nxt.mint.secretPhrase=your passphrase
nxt.mint.unitsPerMint=10                   
(The stronger your miner is the higher value you should put here. it means numbers of coins you want to mint each time, the more you put here the longer it takes to mint but cheaper the fees. this one means 10coins per 1nxt fee.)
nxt.mint.threadPoolSize=0
nxt.mint.initialNonce=0
nxt.mint.isSubmitted=true

Fuck Mt.Gox! Fuck Mintpal! Fuck Bter! FUCK kyc! Protect yourself use MGW! SUPERNET!
Recommended ASSET ->InstantDex : Lead Dev Jl777 (decentralized multi currency instant exchange)
Recommended ASSET -> Jinn : Lead Dev Come-from-Beyond (ternary processors!)
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
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January 26, 2015, 05:31:10 AM
 #19

to mint mscoins you do not need any more than 1 confirmations of your nxt in your wallet.

remember to change the minting settings


1.Locate nxt-default.properties file in nxt-client-1.4.7.1\nxt\conf folder
2.Copy paste this file and rename it to nxt.properties
3. Open the file, locate the parameter below and change them accordingly:


Configuration:
nxt.mint.serverAddress=localhost
nxt.mint.currencyCode=EGOLD
nxt.mint.secretPhrase=your passphrase
nxt.mint.unitsPerMint=10                    
(The stronger your miner is the higher value you should put here. it means numbers of coins you want to mint each time, the more you put here the longer it takes to mint but cheaper the fees. this one means 10coins per 1nxt fee.)
nxt.mint.threadPoolSize=0
nxt.mint.initialNonce=0
nxt.mint.isSubmitted=true


That's exactly my config;

I did hit 2 blocks of 10 units....marked in the NXT minting window..

however I got payed 0 + 1 (red)...1 NXT was removed from me/transaction

and the twice 10...I never got them...

why is that ?


similar transaction can be found there:
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockId/5614132592372667862

in the bottom table is marked as type : Monetary System Currency Minting but the amount is 0 and fee is 1

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January 26, 2015, 06:06:21 AM
 #20

the amount of 0 means 0 nxt in that transaction because no one is getting any nxt and the 1 is the fees required per mint. red is the fees going out.

if you look closely in the transaction details by clicking on the transaction id, you can find the amount of minted coins in the raw data section.

eg https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/1045945306017018459
Raw data
Attachment   {"counter":"2","currency":"5775213290661997199","nonce":"-9028463701948602883","units":"100000","version.CurrencyMinting":1}

that is 10coins minted.

you need to find your minted coins under monetary system tab. click my currencies tab on top right and you can see how much you have.

you are minting monetary system currency. you are not minting any more nxt from this.
you may sell your mscoins for nxt in the exchange booth in the client.

Fuck Mt.Gox! Fuck Mintpal! Fuck Bter! FUCK kyc! Protect yourself use MGW! SUPERNET!
Recommended ASSET ->InstantDex : Lead Dev Jl777 (decentralized multi currency instant exchange)
Recommended ASSET -> Jinn : Lead Dev Come-from-Beyond (ternary processors!)
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
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