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Author Topic: Should Ponzi = Negative trust  (Read 1486 times)
williamj2543
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January 19, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
 #1

Hey, I know there is another thread here but this case is different. The owner of nextponzi.com (and also autoponzi.com and bitcoinponzi.io, which are all the same owner) has stolen 13btc from nextponzi.com for  "medical emergency" (not that I believe that but he is gone for good).
I sent him an email. since I noticed 13 btc was sent from the ponzi address to his own wallet and then used shared send to somewhere (I dont think we can track it now). He offered to give me his code and password to the hosting site he used and all of his sites, and so I could hcange the email and therefore give it to me. I was chosen because I was trusted, and was almost a hero member and I participated in some of his ponzis. Anyways, I would like to run one of these HONESTLY. There is lots of money in the fees, and since my account is almost 2 years old (maybe even older? I don't know), I would be open to starting up ONE large, trusted ponzi, with multiple features and a large well done site (I do lots of php, mysql, html coding) and could take ponzis to the next level, and I seek to create a large trusted ponzi. Weeklyponzi is extremely trusted, more than 2000 replies on their post, but there account is newbie. They are not trusted here, for all we know its just a throwaway account from someone already on the forum, but I want to create a ponzi where people know that a trusted person is running it, and am using a very valuable account.
All that I ask from the community, is how people will react if I start up a ponzi. I have messaged quickseller, shorena, and redsn0w about this and they suggested for me to post this here, but I want the people who automatically label ponzi accounts as negative to listen and use the trust system how it is supposed to be used.
If theres no evidence of me scamming, please don't leave negative trust, since I haven't done anything wrong. A ponzi SCHEME is a scam, taking new investors money and giving it old, and then calling it "cloud mining". It is strange to me that these obvious ponzi SCHEMES, are treated better than a ponzi GAME which stay online and never run away with the money.
If the community doesnt want me running a ponzi that would be taken into consideration, and the reason im posting this is to not trash my 2 year old account trusted by more than 15 people an zero negative or even neutral trust.
If I created a ponzi, this would be the ponzi with the account that is the most trusted to date. We had a full member run, but even he got his account negative bombed even though he never scammed anyone.
TLDR: I am thinking of running a honest ponzi GAME, and please dont negative trust me if I create one and don't scam anyone

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January 19, 2015, 07:45:16 PM
 #2

There is literally another thread with the same name on the first page. You've made no new points or arguments to defend Ponzis. Yes, I guarantee you would receive negative trust. You are facilitating scammy behavior by continuing to defend ponzi games/schemes/scams/shenanigans.
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January 19, 2015, 07:59:17 PM
 #3

There is literally another thread with the same name on the first page. You've made no new points or arguments to defend Ponzis. Yes, I guarantee you would receive negative trust. You are facilitating scammy behavior by continuing to defend ponzi games/schemes/scams/shenanigans.
I know there is already another thread, but michaeladair isn't defending himself, I think hes defending someone else. Also this is a different case. The risk in ponzi game is that someone has to send after you for you to be safe. Instead of hoping that some random number the system generates is in a certain range, you can hope that someone is paying after you, but in this you can actually promote the game and get more people to invest after you through your own words, so you are almost taking the odds into your own hands.
Im not asking that people trust ponzi games, I'm just asking that people shouldnt -ve trust me if I haven't done anything wrong, stole peoples money, or scammed anyone.
If I run away with the funds, you can negative trust me all you want, but my goal is to clean up the ponzi community by building up my site as the most popular, and it is trusted (run by an almost hero member), meaning that smaller ponzis will have less market share, and therefore less scamming. Almost all of the ponzis have run away with the funds, weeklyponzi is the only one left, and that is doing good for the community. If theres one or two large trusted ponzis run by trusted old members, people will mostly use those, not allowing the smaller ponzis to survive and scam their customers.

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January 19, 2015, 08:04:21 PM
 #4

I have one question for you.
Is ponzi legal in your country?

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January 19, 2015, 08:06:31 PM
 #5

I have one question for you.
Is ponzi legal in your country?
Bitcoin gambling is not illegal in my county, not it is enforcable. Online ponzi SCHEMES are definitely illegal, but remember this is a ponzi GAME, and its gambling. Sites like HYIPs and cloud mining (most of cloud mining sites are ponzis) would be illegal if they werent bitcoin, but since this is bitcoin, its not enforcable and therefore not illegal.

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January 19, 2015, 08:26:00 PM
 #6

Why don't you disclose who the owner of these sites are?

It looks like, based on your trusted feedback others have risked as much as much as .19 to you at one time. Your claim that the previous owners were able to steal 13 BTC shows that if you were to start a ponzi then you would be trusted with a lot more then .19 BTC.

What reasons should you be trusted to be able to handle so much more now then you have been trusted with previously?
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January 19, 2015, 08:28:00 PM
 #7

-snip-
TLDR: I am thinking of running a honest ponzi GAME, and please dont negative trust me if I create one and don't scam anyone

I like the idea. No, I dont suddently like ponzis nor would I encurage you playing any. On the other hand I see a demand. I dont understand it, but I dont have to. People are different and like different things. The way the ponzi games are currently run is very risky for players. All of those running a ponzi use newbie accounts to hide behind it. They have no incentive to make it work, to stick to the rules as they can very easily disappear. Someone with an old account on the other hand has something to lose. Yes they can disappear as easily, but would take a loss.

I would see how its running. Ponzis usually take high fees (in comparisson to other forms of gambling) thus this could be a worthwile bussiness for OP if done honestly. I dont want to go into any details (rounds vs. continous etc.), but Id say follow the 6 rules[1] to the best of your abilities and see where you end up.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=926237.msg10191421#msg10191421
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January 19, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
 #8

Lets assume that you give full disclosure to your "game". Are you willing to adhere not doing any of the following?

-snip-
I agree with negative trusting ponzi games if any of these conditions are fulfilled:
-snip-

       2. Bought account: If the account they are using to advertise is bought and they are using that purchased reputation they should receive negative feedback.

 
       3
. Fake users/puppets. Example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927328.0


       4. Non-Instant games. Ponzis are now 48 hours or weekly and hold all deposits giving them the opportunity to scam massive groups of users. Example.     
I would especially be concerned about 4; if you are unwilling to 100% agree to number 4 then you are 100% scamming, there is no question about it.

While I am not normally against the use of sold accounts, you are being asked to be trusted with a lot more money then the value of your account so I think you should prove ownership. I know that you participated in the Prime Dice signature campaign so there should be many unedited posts in that thread with your BTC addy on it. You gave stunna positive feedback twice saying that you risked .4 for your signature payment, once on 9/19/14 and once on 8/19/14. You should be able to point to enrollment posts sometime before 8/19/14 (and again on 9/19/14) with an address that received .4 on or around those dates.

I am also interested to know all the information you have on the owners of the ponzi's you are considering to buy from. If your claim of wanting to be honest and wanting for people to not end up loosing money from ponzi scams then you should reveal whatever information you have. The accounts in questioned are currently banned so it would be illogical to say you are speaking with them via PM

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January 19, 2015, 09:10:38 PM
 #9

I have one question for you.
Is ponzi legal in your country?
Bitcoin gambling is not illegal in my county, not it is enforcable. Online ponzi SCHEMES are definitely illegal, but remember this is a ponzi GAME, and its gambling. Sites like HYIPs and cloud mining (most of cloud mining sites are ponzis) would be illegal if they werent bitcoin, but since this is bitcoin, its not enforcable and therefore not illegal.
Are you telling me that if you admitted in open court that you were running a bitcon gambling site that you would not be convicted of any crime? If this is not the case then it is illegal.
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January 19, 2015, 09:15:18 PM
 #10

Hey, I know there is another thread here but this case is different. The owner of nextponzi.com (and also autoponzi.com and bitcoinponzi.io, which are all the same owner) has stolen 13btc from nextponzi.com for  "medical emergency" (not that I believe that but he is gone for good).
I sent him an email. since I noticed 13 btc was sent from the ponzi address to his own wallet and then used shared send to somewhere (I dont think we can track it now). He offered to give me his code and password to the hosting site he used and all of his sites, and so I could hcange the email and therefore give it to me. I was chosen because I was trusted, and was almost a hero member and I participated in some of his ponzis. Anyways, I would like to run one of these HONESTLY. There is lots of money in the fees, and since my account is almost 2 years old (maybe even older? I don't know), I would be open to starting up ONE large, trusted ponzi, with multiple features and a large well done site (I do lots of php, mysql, html coding) and could take ponzis to the next level, and I seek to create a large trusted ponzi. Weeklyponzi is extremely trusted, more than 2000 replies on their post, but there account is newbie. They are not trusted here, for all we know its just a throwaway account from someone already on the forum, but I want to create a ponzi where people know that a trusted person is running it, and am using a very valuable account.
All that I ask from the community, is how people will react if I start up a ponzi. I have messaged quickseller, shorena, and redsn0w about this and they suggested for me to post this here, but I want the people who automatically label ponzi accounts as negative to listen and use the trust system how it is supposed to be used.
If theres no evidence of me scamming, please don't leave negative trust, since I haven't done anything wrong. A ponzi SCHEME is a scam, taking new investors money and giving it old, and then calling it "cloud mining". It is strange to me that these obvious ponzi SCHEMES, are treated better than a ponzi GAME which stay online and never run away with the money.
If the community doesnt want me running a ponzi that would be taken into consideration, and the reason im posting this is to not trash my 2 year old account trusted by more than 15 people an zero negative or even neutral trust.
If I created a ponzi, this would be the ponzi with the account that is the most trusted to date. We had a full member run, but even he got his account negative bombed even though he never scammed anyone.
TLDR: I am thinking of running a honest ponzi GAME, and please dont negative trust me if I create one and don't scam anyone

Hi everyone.
My name is NextPonzi. Yes, I am a Ponzi Game owner and my thread is in the gambling section. My current trust rating is -17 -3 right now and I run a legitimate, paying ponzi program.
I am also (actually, we are (there is two of us)) a member of bitcointalk with quite a trustworthy account. An account which I will not reveal because, well, look at my trust rating.


Why should I believe that you are not NextPonzi ?

Moreover, if you are not given -ve feedback, then none of the Ponzi operators should be given -ve feedback as long as they are not running away with the money. Otherwise it'll simply become partiality and not be level playing ground for new operators.
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January 19, 2015, 09:25:11 PM
 #11

Hello, from the replies, it seems that people generally are OK with this idea.
I have zero information about the owner of nextponzi, I just sent an email to the support email and he replied (I posted what he said in the nextponzi.com thread)
Quickseller quoted something that stunna said. I fulfill all these conditions. This is not a bought account, and the address 16MtvTUvqwwKwV87nayxPLHTJJZNGPa9qw that I used to use for EVERYTHING (luckyb.it, primedice withdraws, primedice sig campaign) was involved in blockchains compromise. I can still sign messages with this address, but it is compromised so someone else could probably also sign it as well.
If signing a message to prove this account wasn't sold will help me get more trust, I would be open to do that. My email nor password has been changed or reset since the creation of this account.
If anyone wants any more information before I reply to his email about the transfer of these sites (I will be combining them into 1 large site, recoded and checked out by me), please reply to this thread and I will be as transparent as possible.
Generally the community is OK for this account to run a ponzi, but I want some reassurance that I won't be flagged with trust just because I run a site. This is an old and trusted account, and I don't want this to be flagged negative just because im running a certain ponzi game.

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January 19, 2015, 09:39:07 PM
 #12

Hello, from the replies, it seems that people generally are OK with this idea.
I have zero information about the owner of nextponzi, I just sent an email to the support email and he replied (I posted what he said in the nextponzi.com thread)
Why don't you dump the headers of the email's that you received from them? If you know "php, mysql, html coding" then you surely know how to do that. If you don't then post what email service/program yo use and I am sure someone will give you instructions.
Quickseller quoted something that stunna said. I fulfill all these conditions. This is not a bought account, and the address 16MtvTUvqwwKwV87nayxPLHTJJZNGPa9qw that I used to use for EVERYTHING (luckyb.it, primedice withdraws, primedice sig campaign) was involved in blockchains compromise. I can still sign messages with this address, but it is compromised so someone else could probably also sign it as well.
If your wallet is compromised then your computer is likely compromised. If your password is something along the lines of "lP+EDTcJUcW7i6" then you would obviously not memorize it and would use some kind of password manager. If your computer was compromised then an attacker could have stolen your password then changed the DB for your PW manager, the same for your email. (I am not trying to sound crazy, however you are asking to be trusted with potentially tens of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin).

If you were victim to an attack that caused your wallet to become compromised, then why should be be trusted to make sure the "game's" wallet does not compromised? I assume you would know that it would be a much larger target then your own personal wallet.
If signing a message to prove this account wasn't sold will help me get more trust, I would be open to do that. My email nor password has been changed or reset since the creation of this account.
I would say it would be necessary at the bare minimum.
If anyone wants any more information before I reply to his email about the transfer of these sites (I will be combining them into 1 large site, recoded and checked out by me), please reply to this thread and I will be as transparent as possible.
Generally the community is OK for this account to run a ponzi, but I want some reassurance that I won't be flagged with trust just because I run a site. This is an old and trusted account, and I don't want this to be flagged negative just because im running a certain ponzi game.
Your thread has not been open for 2 hours. I would hardly say that is enough time to come to such conclusion.

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.L I V E C O I N . N E T.
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..PROFITBOX..
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January 19, 2015, 09:44:52 PM
 #13

Hello, from the replies, it seems that people generally are OK with this idea.
I have zero information about the owner of nextponzi, I just sent an email to the support email and he replied (I posted what he said in the nextponzi.com thread)
Quickseller quoted something that stunna said. I fulfill all these conditions. This is not a bought account, and the address 16MtvTUvqwwKwV87nayxPLHTJJZNGPa9qw that I used to use for EVERYTHING (luckyb.it, primedice withdraws, primedice sig campaign) was involved in blockchains compromise. I can still sign messages with this address, but it is compromised so someone else could probably also sign it as well.
If signing a message to prove this account wasn't sold will help me get more trust, I would be open to do that. My email nor password has been changed or reset since the creation of this account.
If anyone wants any more information before I reply to his email about the transfer of these sites (I will be combining them into 1 large site, recoded and checked out by me), please reply to this thread and I will be as transparent as possible.
Generally the community is OK for this account to run a ponzi, but I want some reassurance that I won't be flagged with trust just because I run a site. This is an old and trusted account, and I don't want this to be flagged negative just because im running a certain ponzi game.

In case you modify your post BadBear should be able to verify that this is how it was originally

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January 19, 2015, 09:45:10 PM
 #14

Ok. I'd like to switch my address to 16MtvTUvqwwKwV87nayxPLHTJJZNGPa9qw. I owe him some money so I'd like my earnings to go to that address instead.
Thanks!

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January 19, 2015, 09:49:43 PM
 #15

Ok. I'd like to switch my address to 16MtvTUvqwwKwV87nayxPLHTJJZNGPa9qw. I owe him some money so I'd like my earnings to go to that address instead.
Thanks!

If that isn't some damning ass evidence  Shocked Shocked

williamj2543 you got caught planning your scam within the first page. Nice detective work Quickseller
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January 19, 2015, 09:52:03 PM
 #16

No my computer was not compromised, it was a blockchain server problem (Can someone vouch for me here, I got an email from blockchain and they made a blog post aobut this) that a small percent of addresses where compromised, and that they recommended to archive your wallet. The new blockchain wallet used for the site will have a VERY long password with 2fa and whitelisted IP calls.
He replied to me using a hushmail email, which I can provide if you want, but i dont think hushmail would reveal anything.

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▓▓▓▓▓  BIT-X.comvvvvvvvvvvvvvvi
→ CREATE ACCOUNT 
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January 19, 2015, 09:52:29 PM
 #17

Hey, I know there is another thread here but this case is different. The owner of nextponzi.com (and also autoponzi.com and bitcoinponzi.io, which are all the same owner) has stolen 13btc from nextponzi.com for  "medical emergency" (not that I believe that but he is gone for good).
I sent him an email. since I noticed 13 btc was sent from the ponzi address to his own wallet and then used shared send to somewhere (I dont think we can track it now). He offered to give me his code and password to the hosting site he used and all of his sites, and so I could hcange the email and therefore give it to me. I was chosen because I was trusted, and was almost a hero member and I participated in some of his ponzis. Anyways, I would like to run one of these HONESTLY. There is lots of money in the fees, and since my account is almost 2 years old (maybe even older? I don't know), I would be open to starting up ONE large, trusted ponzi, with multiple features and a large well done site (I do lots of php, mysql, html coding) and could take ponzis to the next level, and I seek to create a large trusted ponzi. Weeklyponzi is extremely trusted, more than 2000 replies on their post, but there account is newbie. They are not trusted here, for all we know its just a throwaway account from someone already on the forum, but I want to create a ponzi where people know that a trusted person is running it, and am using a very valuable account.
All that I ask from the community, is how people will react if I start up a ponzi. I have messaged quickseller, shorena, and redsn0w about this and they suggested for me to post this here, but I want the people who automatically label ponzi accounts as negative to listen and use the trust system how it is supposed to be used.
If theres no evidence of me scamming, please don't leave negative trust, since I haven't done anything wrong. A ponzi SCHEME is a scam, taking new investors money and giving it old, and then calling it "cloud mining". It is strange to me that these obvious ponzi SCHEMES, are treated better than a ponzi GAME which stay online and never run away with the money.
If the community doesnt want me running a ponzi that would be taken into consideration, and the reason im posting this is to not trash my 2 year old account trusted by more than 15 people an zero negative or even neutral trust.
If I created a ponzi, this would be the ponzi with the account that is the most trusted to date. We had a full member run, but even he got his account negative bombed even though he never scammed anyone.
TLDR: I am thinking of running a honest ponzi GAME, and please dont negative trust me if I create one and don't scam anyone

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January 19, 2015, 09:53:52 PM
 #18

Argument #1: Ponzi sites are illegal
So are gambling websites that don't have the proper gambling licenses.
So are Bitcoin exchanges that do not have the proper money transmitter licenses or AML procedures.
So are lenders that don't abide by payday loan laws.
So are public performances of the song "Happy birthday to you" which is copyrighted by Warner/Chappell Music.

Argument #2: All ponzi sites are a scam

If the ponzi site fulfills their side of the deal and does exactly what they promise and both parties are willingly trading, where did the scam occur?

Argument #3: Ponzi's should be banned because they make Bitcoin look "bad"
Instead of banning ponzi's, why don't we make things a bit better and form a mining cartel, make a blacklist of bitcoin addresses known to be used by ponzi sites and never confirm any ponzi site payments?

 Wink

The general ethos of Bitcoin is for free market trade and against regulation. How can you actually believe that and at the same time be trying to ban people from using Bitcoin because it makes Bitcoin look bad?

Argument #4: Most ponzi sites aren't provably fair so they are scams
There is probably a way to make ponzi sites provably fair using tx scripts. But if ponzi sites are a scam due to the lack of provably fair, then so are all gambling sites that don't have provably fair, such as poker sites and sportsbook websites.

Argument #5: Ponzi's arent entertainment
People have different opinions on what entertainment is. It may not be entertaining for you, but I'm sure its entertaining for others.

Argument #6: Ponzi's are scams because people will lose money
There will always be people who lose money on any gambling website. Otherwise the website would be losing money.

Thats all the arguments I can think of right now.

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January 19, 2015, 10:06:46 PM
 #19

Fine.
Quickseller you got me. I was involved in these sites, and kerimk2 was my alt account.
I will be making a post to explain my story about the parnership of these ponzi sites, ill start writing it.
I assure you that I was not the one who stole the 13btc.

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January 19, 2015, 10:08:44 PM
 #20

Fine.
Quickseller you got me. I was involved in these sites, and kerimk2 was my alt account.
I will be making a post to explain my story about the parnership of these ponzi sites, ill start writing it.
I assure you that I was not the one who stole the 13btc.

That does not match your OP.

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