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myrkul
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July 31, 2012, 12:57:00 AM
 #81

Here's some of the main ones:

*  Move people to political mobilization by dispelling the myth of Libertarianism.  Easier and easier now that more fair-minded people are seeing through the Paul-frauds.
*  Crush the energy oligarchy that co-rules the world with various other oligarchical classes by convincing the far Left or "Green movement" that LFTR and nuclear research is the way to go for an actual functioning energy policy.  This requires grass-roots mobilization as all the major institutions are financed and 'bought off'.  But a lot here can be done and a growing movement has already begun for LFTR.
*  ALL Economics that is taught today is apologetics and service to the monied interests.  This includes: Marxism, Libertarianism, Anarchism (in so much as it is a Economic theory), Zeitgeistism (another fraud), The Washington (NeoLiberal) Consensus, Keynesianism, etc.  Resurrect the American System of Political Economy.  This is a Pro-Labor, Pro-Progress, Pro-Technological development, Pro-Peace "school" of economics that barely exists at present.  Free the people from seeing themselves and their country as a slave to domestic and foreign Finance Capital.

Those are the main three tenants of what I see as the problems and solutions to be.  If we are going to have any future or human destiny it is going to require that all these problems be addressed and there is no other way of addressing them than what I propose in this generalized sense.  The specifics of who to fix these problems with these solutions a vast and ever-going conversation.

Ahh. Thanks, that makes it much easier. Not sure how I missed that post, but, I think, it's excusable, given that I was busy with twins.

Now, If you could explain the system of Political Economy for me, I'd be very appreciative. As I understand it, it involves protectionism for developing industries, and then free competition among the developed ones?

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July 31, 2012, 04:00:02 AM
 #82

(And no, I am not interested in sifting through hundreds of pages of text to decipher your beliefs. "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  -Albert Einstein)

So all the written works of man within the realm of science, political science, economics, etc. can be explained simply and in a few sentences? Shall we burn all the books now, stop education, and simply trade a meme or two from here on?

I don't believe Einstein had your brand of ignorance in mind when he made such a statement.
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July 31, 2012, 04:06:12 AM
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Partially, yes.  That's why I'm trying to do something about it.  I have a host of things that need to be done that, if applied now, could start the fissuring of this corrupt system and see it's dissolution and the emergence of something better over the coming decade, but I have a lack (as in, presently 0) of like-minded 'foot solders' or even 'equals' who would like to help out.  People can't think on timescales such as these and therefore believe themselves to be weak and powerless.

Here's some of the main ones:

*  Move people to political mobilization by dispelling the myth of Libertarianism.  Easier and easier now that more fair-minded people are seeing through the Paul-frauds.
*  Crush the energy oligarchy that co-rules the world with various other oligarchical classes by convincing the far Left or "Green movement" that LFTR and nuclear research is the way to go for an actual functioning energy policy.  This requires grass-roots mobilization as all the major institutions are financed and 'bought off'.  But a lot here can be done and a growing movement has already begun for LFTR.
*  ALL Economics that is taught today is apologetics and service to the monied interests.  This includes: Marxism, Libertarianism, Anarchism (in so much as it is a Economic theory), Zeitgeistism (another fraud), The Washington (NeoLiberal) Consensus, Keynesianism, etc.  Resurrect the American System of Political Economy.  This is a Pro-Labor, Pro-Progress, Pro-Technological development, Pro-Peace "school" of economics that barely exists at present.  Free the people from seeing themselves and their country as a slave to domestic and foreign Finance Capital.

Those are the main three tenants of what I see as the problems and solutions to be.  If we are going to have any future or human destiny it is going to require that all these problems be addressed and there is no other way of addressing them than what I propose in this generalized sense.  The specifics of who to fix these problems with these solutions a vast and ever-going conversation.

Ok, so here is what I would say. Think about what skills you have, think about how you can use that to create a replacement for some service that the governments, large corporations, "monied interests" (all three are the same) currently provide, and then create a superior alternative. The language you are using is too focused on destruction. Go back and read that post to discover how much space you devoted to complaining about the current problems vs how much you devoted to providing solutions. These large organizations need to be made irrelevant, piece by peice.

Using any kind of violence or force as part of a solution is the least creative route. Further, this strategy has a really obvious history of blowback. Say what you will about the current system, but it has been relatively stable. Use this stability to your advantage.

One could just as equally say that the Libertarian solution is no solution at all, as it ignores the complexity of the issues. Witness myrkul's general attitude regarding knowledge. A nuanced and effective solution requires some awareness and knowledge about the issues, and most importantly, how one simple proposed solution fails to address various issues (which myrkul and his camp are obviously unaware of due to voluntary ignorance).

Most people in this forum are hobbiest political ignoramuses, including myrkul. The smartest people within this forum will favor the intake of knowledge before committing to a solution, and certainly wouldn't insist that a solution can be explained in a few sentences.
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July 31, 2012, 04:42:17 AM
 #84

So all the written works of man within the realm of science, political science, economics, etc. can be explained simply and in a few sentences? Shall we burn all the books now, stop education, and simply trade a meme or two from here on?

no, but most, if not all, political philosophies can be at least summarized in a few sentences, or even less. Witness:

communism: a classless, stateless society where the means of production are held communally.
market anarchy: a stateless society where private property is respected, and all services are rendered on the free market.
libertarian government (aka minarchy, the night-watchman state): a state society where the role of the state is limited to the protection of its citizens, their property, and their rights.
constitutional republic: a federal government with certain, delineated powers, and a number of member states, each allowed considerable autonomy in their governance.

I could go on, but I have better things to do. I think you get the point.

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July 31, 2012, 04:47:32 AM
 #85

So all the written works of man within the realm of science, political science, economics, etc. can be explained simply and in a few sentences? Shall we burn all the books now, stop education, and simply trade a meme or two from here on?

no, but most, if not all, political philosophies can be at least summarized in a few sentences, or even less. Witness:

communism: a classless, stateless society where the means of production are held communally.
market anarchy: a stateless society where private property is respected, and all services are rendered on the free market.
libertarian government (aka minarchy, the night-watchman state): a state society where the role of the state is limited to the protection of its citizens, their property, and their rights.
constitutional republic: a federal government with certain, delineated powers, and a number of member states, each allowed considerable autonomy in their governance.

I could go on, but I have better things to do. I think you get the point.

No, I don't get the point, because there is no point. The above is meaningless drivel without implementation details and the ramifications each has with regard to the existing knowledge base about the world.

If it was as simple as the above one sentence summaries you posted, there would be nothing to discuss, and you wouldn't feel compelled to push your crackpot loon societal solution continuously. However, if you still insist that it is as simple as you insist, please stop posting, as you seem to feel that the above summary of your own favored ideology is adequate. Then you can leave the discussion to the rest of us, as others here obviously feel that there is more depth to the ideologies we favor.
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July 31, 2012, 04:55:15 AM
 #86

Then you can leave the discussion to the rest of us, as others here obviously feel that there is more depth to the ideologies we favor.

And in your case, that ideology would be....? You still haven't explained that even in the one-sentence summary style of the above examples. You seem quite content to simply ridicule others' viewpoints, without expressing your own. You've started two threads so far to do so, in fact, and both have died on the vine because of your lack of interest. So man up and put your cards on the table, or go troll somewhere else.

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July 31, 2012, 05:03:09 AM
 #87

Then you can leave the discussion to the rest of us, as others here obviously feel that there is more depth to the ideologies we favor.

And in your case, that ideology would be....? You still haven't explained that even in the one-sentence summary style of the above examples. You seem quite content to simply ridicule others' viewpoints, without expressing your own. You've started two threads so far to do so, in fact, and both have died on the vine because of your lack of interest. So man up and put your cards on the table, or go troll somewhere else.

I ridicule your viewpoint precisely because it is founded within a vacuum of knowledge. It deserves ridicule.

My ideology is to factor in knowledge to discuss solutions. I have tried to discuss solutions, but first, such discussion requires acknowledgement of that knowledge from those engaged in discussion. You advocate ignorance, thus you don't yet qualify, in my opinion, to discuss ideologies.

If I simply proposed a solution, you would, from an unqualified viewpoint, render an opinion on it that is useless, precisely due to your willful ignorance of the data and mechanisms which support such a solution.
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July 31, 2012, 05:06:09 AM
 #88

Explain to him why you are involved with bitcoin. That will answer his question.
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July 31, 2012, 06:35:13 PM
 #89

(And no, I am not interested in sifting through hundreds of pages of text to decipher your beliefs. "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  -Albert Einstein)

So all the written works of man within the realm of science, political science, economics, etc. can be explained simply and in a few sentences? Shall we burn all the books now, stop education, and simply trade a meme or two from here on?

I don't believe Einstein had your brand of ignorance in mind when he made such a statement.

LMAO.

Thanks.  *wipes eye*  That's one of the best things I've ever read on this website, thanks again First Ascent.

 Grin

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 06:36:30 PM
 #90

So all the written works of man within the realm of science, political science, economics, etc. can be explained simply and in a few sentences? Shall we burn all the books now, stop education, and simply trade a meme or two from here on?

no, but most, if not all, political philosophies can be at least summarized in a few sentences, or even less. Witness:

communism: a classless, stateless society where the means of production are held communally.
market anarchy: a stateless society where private property is respected, and all services are rendered on the free market.
libertarian government (aka minarchy, the night-watchman state): a state society where the role of the state is limited to the protection of its citizens, their property, and their rights.
constitutional republic: a federal government with certain, delineated powers, and a number of member states, each allowed considerable autonomy in their governance.

I could go on, but I have better things to do. I think you get the point.

These quotes assume that we are all using the same language - in regards to it's specificity - and that there is an underlying rigorous definition to the terms in question.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 06:39:44 PM
 #91

Here's some of the main ones:

*  Move people to political mobilization by dispelling the myth of Libertarianism.  Easier and easier now that more fair-minded people are seeing through the Paul-frauds.
*  Crush the energy oligarchy that co-rules the world with various other oligarchical classes by convincing the far Left or "Green movement" that LFTR and nuclear research is the way to go for an actual functioning energy policy.  This requires grass-roots mobilization as all the major institutions are financed and 'bought off'.  But a lot here can be done and a growing movement has already begun for LFTR.
*  ALL Economics that is taught today is apologetics and service to the monied interests.  This includes: Marxism, Libertarianism, Anarchism (in so much as it is a Economic theory), Zeitgeistism (another fraud), The Washington (NeoLiberal) Consensus, Keynesianism, etc.  Resurrect the American System of Political Economy.  This is a Pro-Labor, Pro-Progress, Pro-Technological development, Pro-Peace "school" of economics that barely exists at present.  Free the people from seeing themselves and their country as a slave to domestic and foreign Finance Capital.

Those are the main three tenants of what I see as the problems and solutions to be.  If we are going to have any future or human destiny it is going to require that all these problems be addressed and there is no other way of addressing them than what I propose in this generalized sense.  The specifics of who to fix these problems with these solutions a vast and ever-going conversation.

Ahh. Thanks, that makes it much easier. Not sure how I missed that post, but, I think, it's excusable, given that I was busy with twins.

Now, If you could explain the system of Political Economy for me, I'd be very appreciative. As I understand it, it involves protectionism for developing industries, and then free competition among the developed ones?

I already have.  Multiple times.  Remember the quote I had from which all action of economics flow, in my 'ideology'?  Remember the books I cited to you? 

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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myrkul
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July 31, 2012, 07:08:20 PM
 #92

I already have.  Multiple times.  Remember the quote I had from which all action of economics flow, in my 'ideology'?  Remember the books I cited to you? 

So... No, then? Am I to lump you in with FirstAscent's trollery, then? Very well.

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July 31, 2012, 07:37:35 PM
 #93

I already have.  Multiple times.  Remember the quote I had from which all action of economics flow, in my 'ideology'?  Remember the books I cited to you? 

So... No, then? Am I to lump you in with FirstAscent's trollery, then? Very well.

Do what you will.

It is evident that you neither have the time, inclination, ability or patience to understand any of the subject matter we're discussing; it's not like my mountains of arguments nor mountains of reading material for you to enlighten yourself have had any worthwhile response from you because you refuse or are unable to put in the required time and learning to do so.  So you dance in the shadows.  You're probably too busy with your kids, and I, personally, would much rather you spent time with them than thinking yourself some nighttime avenger and savior-to-us-all through your Utopian, oligarch financed, foundation promoted poisonous rhetoric and ideology.  You are so certain of your ideology that you are unable to even do the required research to fully check the possibility to see if what you are promoting is backward and misguided if not evil and corrupt.  In my world, Pride is a character flaw if not a sin; but here, it's par for the course.

Leave these discussions to persons like myself because I'm able to invest the ridiculous amount of time required to actually be able to understand any of this subject matter fully and comprehensively - and I act on that ability.  And I, unlike your own ideology, am operating from a place of wanting to do good for the entirety of the population, not just those with ample means.  But, alas, here is the fallacy of Democracy, yet again, where the average person trying to discover the great 'what should be done?' question of his respective generation is misled, completely lost and without a signpost of how to navigate the world they're in, being herded like sheep against their own interests and flying to the defense of finance oligarchy, which wouldn't hesitate for even a fraction of  a second if it was between killing you and your entire family and protecting their ill-gotten power and privilege.  Yet, you are part of their ideological vanguard army, from which you'll never be paid, nor ever receive any spoils from, only to be abused and thrown away with the rest of the civilization being looted and destroyed.  And this isn't even something hard to prove, it just requires an open mind and objectively and fairly considering everything presented and being able to change one's mind in reference to the truth, not break and bend the truth to conform and 'gel' with your ideology.  And the books I referenced you would have set you on that path.

It seems you're not going to ever give up your ideology and when you're an old man you'll be watching Fox News (or equivalent) and shaking your fist at whatever Pavlovian response the finance oligarchs want to sell you at that time.  You can't give up your Reactionism because it is the comfy blanket that you are able to sooth yourself with and pretend to yourself like you have all the answers and that what you are promoting is 'good'.  I, on the other hand, when I discovered the absolute baselessness and corruption of the school of Libertarianism, I walked away from them and changed my mind without batting an eye.  Such is the awareness of one's own foibles and potential for weakness - an awareness which is the very essence of strength.  You lack this, your Pride is evident as well as your lack of ability, time, etc. to do the requisite research is evident, so what more can be said?


I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 07:46:06 PM
 #94

So, because I request a simple explanation of your philosophy so that I may judge, based on that, if it is worth further study, and do not wish to immediately invest several hundreds of hours in reading through century-old texts, I am not intellectually honest?

Please, do not make me laugh. I can explain the tenets of liberty from the simplest one-liner (see above), all the way to a full treatise. That is because I understand it. If you cannot explain it to me in such a way that I am thereby interested in reading more about it on my own initiative, then perhaps you do not understand your own philosophy... or perhaps sophistry would be a better word.

The fact that you debate language and wording, rather than meaning and philosophy tells me all I need to know about you. Toodles.

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July 31, 2012, 08:10:19 PM
 #95

So, because I request a simple explanation of your philosophy so that I may judge, based on that, if it is worth further study, and do not wish to immediately invest several hundreds of hours in reading through century-old texts, I am not intellectually honest?

I believe I said that you're not actually qualified to judge any ideology other than your own precisely because you believe it is not necessary to learn anything outside the boundaries of what your ideology presupposes is necessary to know.
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July 31, 2012, 08:23:17 PM
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So, because I request a simple explanation of your philosophy so that I may judge, based on that, if it is worth further study, and do not wish to immediately invest several hundreds of hours in reading through century-old texts, I am not intellectually honest?

I believe I said that you're not actually qualified to judge any ideology other than your own precisely because you believe it is not necessary to learn anything outside the boundaries of what your ideology presupposes is necessary to know.

+1

Such is the nature of synthetic slave ideologies.  They proscribe to their dupes that they now have the method for deriving all truth through their proscribed system.  It is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

The truth frightens Myrkul.  He has to run away now.

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 08:24:35 PM
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So, because I request a simple explanation of your philosophy so that I may judge, based on that, if it is worth further study, and do not wish to immediately invest several hundreds of hours in reading through century-old texts, I am not intellectually honest?

Please, do not make me laugh. I can explain the tenets of liberty from the simplest one-liner (see above), all the way to a full treatise. That is because I understand it. If you cannot explain it to me in such a way that I am thereby interested in reading more about it on my own initiative, then perhaps you do not understand your own philosophy... or perhaps sophistry would be a better word.

The fact that you debate language and wording, rather than meaning and philosophy tells me all I need to know about you. Toodles.


Please go raise your children.  They need your help more than the world needs your help.

 Undecided

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 08:31:11 PM
 #98

Quote
The fact that you debate language and wording, rather than meaning and philosophy tells me all I need to know about you. Toodles.


Please go raise your children.  They need your help more than the world needs your help.

 Undecided

My children are sleeping peacefully.

I do not fear truth, and rest assured, if you finally manage to present some to me, I am intellectually honest enough to admit that it is, in fact, truth, and change my mind. I'm not holding my breath, however, since neither of you have ever bothered to set out clear answers to the problems you say are inherent in my philosophy. Nor, for that matter, ever bothered to explain yours, aside from "go read these books." You, not I, run from the truth.

This is all I have to say to both of you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92501.msg1062338#msg1062338

(though I use FirstAscent, I feel it safe to say that it applies to you, as well.)

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July 31, 2012, 11:04:19 PM
 #99

The fact that you debate language and wording, rather than meaning and philosophy tells me all I need to know about you. Toodles.


Please go raise your children.  They need your help more than the world needs your help.

 Undecided

My children are sleeping peacefully.

I do not fear truth, and rest assured, if you finally manage to present some to me, I am intellectually honest enough to admit that it is, in fact, truth, and change my mind. I'm not holding my breath, however, since neither of you have ever bothered to set out clear answers to the problems you say are inherent in my philosophy. Nor, for that matter, ever bothered to explain yours, aside from "go read these books." You, not I, run from the truth.

This is all I have to say to both of you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92501.msg1062338#msg1062338

(though I use FirstAscent, I feel it safe to say that it applies to you, as well.)
[/quote]

 Wink

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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July 31, 2012, 11:12:29 PM
 #100

I have some refined thorium ore in my home, hidden away carefully...

That is all I have to add to this conversation. Thank you.

Donations are welcome!
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