How much wall street money will be pouring into bitcoin now?

[ssmc2]

Also consider, none of these investors are getting into bitcoin. At best they get involved with companies that deal with the bitcoin ecosystem. So it won't affect the price at all.

So you assume the market is unilateral and has no spectrum? Really?

Of course there will be investors interested in holding bitcoin, they will use different paths to get them. Paths that are already there for years and as such we can not expect there to be a big movement in that regard.

You contradict yourself.

[B.A.S.]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

[knight22]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea 

[kwukduck]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Yes let's waste money on scam coins, great idea! Sorry, i lolled hard with this one.

[Bernard Lerring]

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

I think the key thing here is that they have secured a NY bank as their backers and appear to be doing everything by the book and make a the exchange 100% culpable and legitimate. It may not seem much to you or I (and others on these forums that know how to secure their BTC) but it might make the difference to some wealthly old guy or average 2.4 children family that don't have technical peace of mind but want to try out Bitcoin.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

[B.A.S.]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

[inca]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

You could be right. Ultimately if bitcoin becomes successful as a digital 'gold' like asset of fixed scarcity with internet utility, then the price will rise dramatically, encumbered or bossed by derivatives markets or not

[B.A.S.]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

You could be right. Ultimately if bitcoin becomes successful as a digital 'gold' like asset of fixed scarcity with internet utility, then the price will rise dramatically, encumbered or bossed by derivatives markets or not

Yep, I could totally see a future were BTC technology is separated into two parts: 1) derivatives/finance/store of value/reserve status and 2) blockchain technology: payments/remittances/transactions/invoicing, etc.

[AceWallen]

if the ETF happens, and it probably won't, it won't necessarily mean money "coming into" bitcoin as it used to -- before options/leveraged markets existed. a regulated fund could lead to highly liquid markets in options, etc, but there is a good chance it actually pushes price down.

[BillyBobZorton]

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

I think the key thing here is that they have secured a NY bank as their backers and appear to be doing everything by the book and make a the exchange 100% culpable and legitimate. It may not seem much to you or I (and others on these forums that know how to secure their BTC) but it might make the difference to some wealthly old guy or average 2.4 children family that don't have technical peace of mind but want to try out Bitcoin.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Yeah, it makes sense from an older POV guy that wants to invest. Only if we could get Warren Buffet to wake up and drop some millions on it, poor guy has become a stagnant dinosaur when it comes to crypto.

[knight22]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

Bitcoin infrastructure is going both way. Haven't you heard of Lighthouse, Bitsquare and OpenBazaar? Bitcoin infrastructure being developed both way is good for broader adoption, one for legitimacy and mainstream adoption and the second one for the honeybadgers of this world. All connected with the same currency.

[thms]

They're getting old time speeds up lately.

omg they wear almost same clothes too, this is borderline freak, surely will scare a lot of potential investors.

[deine mudder]

The Gemini exchange and ETF  seems to be just around the corner!

Time to speculate how much money will be pouring into the system and wear seat belts for the takeoff  to moon

ETF will not come with this ridiculous volatility and manipulation

Wallstreet is not coming soon

[ronald98]

They're getting old time speeds up lately.

omg they wear almost same clothes too, this is borderline freak, surely will scare a lot of potential investors.

How will potential investors know the twins have not swapped places? It could put them off if the twins keep wearing the same clothes.

[B.A.S.]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

Bitcoin infrastructure is going both way. Haven't you heard of Lighthouse, Bitsquare and OpenBazaar? Bitcoin infrastructure being developed both way is good for broader adoption, one for legitimacy and mainstream adoption and the second one for the honeybadgers of this world. All connected with the same currency.

I've heard of only Bitsqare and OpenBazaar; Lighthouse looks neat. I appreciate the tip off.

Just some thoughts:

Bitcoin doesn't need legitimacy, it already has it by merely existing. The idea of Bitcoin is rooted in trust (decentralization), something humans do not intrinsically possess. The Bitcoiners of the world are demanding security and the implementation of trust (regulated processes) because most are speculating on making a profit from it, hence they care about mitigating losses. This is the fault of humans, not the need for legitimacy of the tech.

Outside of speculation/trading, what purpose does BTC serve the average citizen that fiat dollars doesn't?

If given in the future BTC was implemented similar to a currency, what advantages would it offer that fiat currency can't?

The potential value of what BTC and blockchain technology offers is slanted to those who control the fiat I believe. Short of cheaper moneygram transactions, hedging economic inflation a bit, impressing your friends, diversifying investments, etc. it means nothing.

I am not saying BTC is bad, but the technology is being developed by those with money and power (or will be assumed by those with money and power) because the common Bitcoiner is looking to this technology as his/her way out of their measly middle class life.

Examples (Average Joe):

1) BTC exchanges -> NYSE, NASDAQ, FX already exists using fiat
2) Potential ETF -> Derivatives market already exists for fiat
3) BTC NFC mobile payments -> already exists for fiat and with numerous businesses/banks
4) BTC wallets backed by FDIC -> Bank accounts exist with this
5) BTC as hedge for inflation -> Commodities market already exists
6) Fast/low fee transactions -> Doesn't exist (the transaction processors stand to benefit from this way more than the average joe)
7) Buying goods/services -> already exists using fiat

Examples (USG/business/financial elites)

1) Massive fiat revenue from conversion of fiat for IOUs. Little responsibility to customer on the part of the exchange (as of right now)
2) Unbacked digital asset becomes backed by real fiat (free money with no collateral)
3) Data mining gold-mine
4) Front/back and side door monitoring by the USG for taxation purposes, AML, etc. (huge benefit, companies will get kickbacks)
5) Exporting real fiat inflation into a (by then) somewhat stable reserve choice
6) Companies will save fiat money processing digital transactions and still make a profit by "helping the customer" with cheaper rates
7) Customers have vested interest in using BTC. It's like gift cards to them. Once customers buy BTC, they are more apt to spend it as Bitcoin because it is expensive to convert back; hence they are racing to accept BTC.

[chaoman]

Real talk

NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE

[NeuroticFish]

Well... officially it would be (nearly) 0.
And the unofficial amounts we never knew and will never know.

Much less than you'd expect, however, because the altcoin market can also be seen as a potential investment, maybe even better than bitcoin. Sorry if this hurts the self-esteem of some bitcoiners..

ALL altcoins have slowly been bleeding out since early 2014.
You shouldn't expect to be taken seriously with a sentence like that

The price is not the only reason to invest. Features, advertising, communities or trading volumes also attract...

Maybe I am wrong. Time will tell.. but your "argument" is.. missing.

[knight22]

Casual correlation:

1) Winklevii have long been trying to establish an ETF (COIN)

2) Recently, the Winklevii would like to start a BTC exchange (Gemini)


=> Winklevii may not be as optimistic as they once were regarding COIN, so now they look to start an exchange as a place to put their coins to use.

I hope they are at least diversifying all these Bitcoins into other crypto projects. All eggs in same cryptobasket = bad idea.
Also exchanges are a thing of the past, at least centralized ones.

Sure, diversifying in altcoins that no one cares sounds like a good idea  

My thoughts:

1) COIN won't get the SEC approval anytime soon; the potential lose of tax revenue for USG is too large currently and not enough regulations are in place (yet)

2) Winklevii know this; why not front run an ETF with your own exchange? They would be the equivalent of the NYSE if eventually they get ETF approval (They'd be their own market mover).

*I really dislike the fact that I see many of BTC's new infrastructure going the way of our current financial system. A great technology is being lost through osmosis of its best parts into a financially and morally corrupt banking system.

Bitcoin infrastructure is going both way. Haven't you heard of Lighthouse, Bitsquare and OpenBazaar? Bitcoin infrastructure being developed both way is good for broader adoption, one for legitimacy and mainstream adoption and the second one for the honeybadgers of this world. All connected with the same currency.

I've heard of only Bitsqare and OpenBazaar; Lighthouse looks neat. I appreciate the tip off.

Just some thoughts:

Bitcoin doesn't need legitimacy, it already has it by merely existing. The idea of Bitcoin is rooted in trust (decentralization), something humans do not intrinsically possess. The Bitcoiners of the world are demanding security and the implementation of trust (regulated processes) because most are speculating on making a profit from it, hence they care about mitigating losses. This is the fault of humans, not the need for legitimacy of the tech.

Outside of speculation/trading, what purpose does BTC serve the average citizen that fiat dollars doesn't?

If given in the future BTC was implemented similar to a currency, what advantages would it offer that fiat currency can't?

The potential value of what BTC and blockchain technology offers is slanted to those who control the fiat I believe. Short of cheaper moneygram transactions, hedging economic inflation a bit, impressing your friends, diversifying investments, etc. it means nothing.

I am not saying BTC is bad, but the technology is being developed by those with money and power (or will be assumed by those with money and power) because the common Bitcoiner is looking to this technology as his/her way out of their measly middle class life.

Examples (Average Joe):

1) BTC exchanges -> NYSE, NASDAQ, FX already exists using fiat
2) Potential ETF -> Derivatives market already exists for fiat
3) BTC NFC mobile payments -> already exists for fiat and with numerous businesses/banks
4) BTC wallets backed by FDIC -> Bank accounts exist with this
5) BTC as hedge for inflation -> Commodities market already exists
6) Fast/low fee transactions -> Doesn't exist (the transaction processors stand to benefit from this way more than the average joe)
7) Buying goods/services -> already exists using fiat

Examples (USG/business/financial elites)

1) Massive fiat revenue from conversion of fiat for IOUs. Little responsibility to customer on the part of the exchange (as of right now)
2) Unbacked digital asset becomes backed by real fiat (free money with no collateral)
3) Data mining gold-mine
4) Front/back and side door monitoring by the USG for taxation purposes, AML, etc. (huge benefit, companies will get kickbacks)
5) Exporting real fiat inflation into a (by then) somewhat stable reserve choice
6) Companies will save fiat money processing digital transactions and still make a profit by "helping the customer" with cheaper rates
7) Customers have vested interest in using BTC. It's like gift cards to them. Once customers buy BTC, they are more apt to spend it as Bitcoin because it is expensive to convert back; hence they are racing to accept BTC.

I see bitcoin being integrated in the actual fiat systems as a good thing for this simple reason, it give bridges for people to jump off from the fiat systems to the bitcoin systems. This is inevitable as there is a lot of money to be made out of this and bitcoin is fairly easy to integrate into the actual payment rails. The more bitcoin is being integrated, the more bridges there are and these bridges doesn't stop people from developing new and innovative bitcoin systems. One day bitcoin will be so integrated that we will wake up and realize that bitcoin IS the way to go and there is no point for using stupid fiat anymore.

[B.A.S.]

One day bitcoin will be so integrated that we will wake up and realize that bitcoin IS the way to go and there is no point for using stupid fiat anymore.

But there is a point; control.