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Author Topic: BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)  (Read 74300 times)
ScryptAsic
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January 25, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
 #81

I'm really very disappointed , he need a very good lawyer .
A lawyer is only going to help him at the margins. If he has in fact broken the law then having a good lawyer is not going to help very much. The way that a good lawyer can help is getting the charges reduced or potentially getting him a lesser sentence.

It is possible that a good lawyer can get evidence thrown out that was obtained illegally however it is fairly rare that this succeeds.
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January 25, 2015, 06:41:29 PM
 #82

i dont know about him or thats organise .
just pray the best for him.


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TippingPoint
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January 25, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
 #83

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".



I'm afraid it might very well be.  he needs a good lawyer.

Has there been many of these "stings", whereby the undercover officer mentions illegal activity halfway through the deal and thus "entraps" (IMO) the suspect into incriminating themselves if they continue the transaction?

from the Tips for local transactions thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137272.0
the general rules include:

  • agree on price and procedures in advance
  • meet in a neutral place with video surveillance and secure wifi
  • verify that both parties have all the required Bitcoins and cash
  • perform incremental transactions, exchange small amounts first
  • if the other party wants to change the procedure, walk away
  • never do a transaction with anyone who tells you that it will be used for something illegal

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January 25, 2015, 06:59:46 PM
 #84

Made some business with Burt back in the days. He blew 10000 BTC on Pirate if I remember right. Things were different back then but some day you have to pay your bills.

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January 25, 2015, 07:06:18 PM
 #85

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".



I'm afraid it might very well be.  he needs a good lawyer.

Has there been many of these "stings", whereby the undercover officer mentions illegal activity halfway through the deal and thus "entraps" (IMO) the suspect into incriminating themselves if they continue the transaction?

from the Tips for local transactions thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137272.0
the general rules include:

  • agree on price and procedures in advance
  • meet in a neutral place with video surveillance and secure wifi
  • verify that both parties have all the required Bitcoins and cash
  • perform incremental transactions, exchange small amounts first
  • if the other party wants to change the procedure, walk away
  • never do a transaction with anyone who tells you that it will be used for something illegal


Those rules don't work because you're still acting as a money services business and most LEOs will make small trades first to build trust. Hell, they might even take you out to dinner and go bar hopping with you first.

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January 25, 2015, 09:12:59 PM
 #86

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".



I'm afraid it might very well be.  he needs a good lawyer.

Has there been many of these "stings", whereby the undercover officer mentions illegal activity halfway through the deal and thus "entraps" (IMO) the suspect into incriminating themselves if they continue the transaction?

from the Tips for local transactions thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137272.0
the general rules include:

  • agree on price and procedures in advance
  • meet in a neutral place with video surveillance and secure wifi
  • verify that both parties have all the required Bitcoins and cash
  • perform incremental transactions, exchange small amounts first
  • if the other party wants to change the procedure, walk away
  • never do a transaction with anyone who tells you that it will be used for something illegal


Those rules don't work because you're still acting as a money services business and most LEOs will make small trades first to build trust. Hell, they might even take you out to dinner and go bar hopping with you first.
I don't think law enforcement is out to get people who are selling bitcoin like this. I would speculate they are primarily after people who are willing to trade with people that openly admit to intend on breaking the law with the bitcoin they are purchasing/selling
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January 25, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
 #87

I did read throught supportment site and articles and he really got arrested for trading btc without licence that isn't even needed? WTF?!

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ScryptAsic
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January 25, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
 #88

I did read throught supportment site and articles and he really got arrested for trading btc without licence that isn't even needed? WTF?!
He was indicted for transmitting money without a license to someone who was planning on using the proceeds of the transmission for criminal purposes.

In other words he sold bitcoin to someone who was said he was planning on using it for something illegal.
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January 25, 2015, 10:48:40 PM
 #89

This sounds really bad. As far as I know, he is buying and selling bitcoins face to face, he is not running an exchange and money laundering?

I hope these are pumped up charges to get him to pay his evaded taxes  Embarrassed

Quote
unlicensed money transmitting business ... a digital currency exchange business ... transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense and were intended to be used to promote and support unlawful activity
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January 25, 2015, 11:56:55 PM
 #90

If you check out the linked in profile of the Assistant US Attorney prosecuting this case:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/michele-korver/4/405/977

it seems like she considers herself an expert in the following areas:

Quote
Wiretapping and electronic surveillance
 International and transnational organized crime
 Digital currencies, darknet websites, and other internet related investigations
 Money Laundering and Bank Secrecy Act investigations
 Asset Forfeiture

I suspect that the government is just testing the waters to see how far they can clamp down on Bitcoin traders and probably considers this Assistant US Attorney as the best and most motivated person to handle the case.

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January 26, 2015, 12:42:41 AM
 #91

Dealing in Bitcoin is dangerous.
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January 26, 2015, 01:07:52 AM
 #92

This is a witch hunt by the taxman, I believe this took place before the IRS declared bitcoins to be property retroactively which is illegal.

this type of tactics by the IRS is in part what has caused the price of bitcoin to temporarily go down since it makes it difficult to purchase bitcoins.

The way the news appears it looks like it was a clear case of entrapment, since the cop made a lot of small purchases will the goal to gain his trust so he could be entrapped.

Charles shrem was also a victim of this.

Remember guys bitcoin is a financial revolution, revolutions are not peaceful, there will be some that fall but fighting for financial freedom is worth it.

but do not take  unnecessary risks, if using localbitcoins find out the legal limits and play within those limits to reduce risk.

burtW was exercising his financial freedom that is not illegal based on the constitution, it is only made a crime because the taxman does not get his cut for something he did not help create, he did nothing to support, he did not contribute, nevertheless he wants his cut after all you are bypassing his inflation tax with bitcoins.

Also forcing people to pay the inflation tax is illegal under the constitution, that is why the constitution mentions gold and silver as money, it was to prevent the inflation tax that is currently payed under the US dollar and that tax is used mostly to fund wars. Since with bitcoin there is no inflation tax, the IRS is asking retroactively its users to pay the inflation tax which bitcoin by design was made to avoid, since it was designed to be a form of honest money and completely open. not closed like a typical fiat currency and inflated at will using qe (money printing).  

To those that say he knew what he was doing, yes he knew, he was participating in a financial revolution.

Since I agree with almost every word of this, I might as well just quote it.

It's important to have the correct mindset when going into this.  Don't ever believe that there really are rational rules out there somewhere and that it is possible to follow them and avoid all harassment.  You can do everything perfectly, and still encounter a lot of bullshit.

Regardless, you have an absolute right to trade.  Full stop.  Everything else, the regulations, the taxes, the restrictions, is voluntary.

Further, the US government has zero jurisdiction over trade.  They can only regulate commerce.  It's right in the Constitution.

So what they will try to do, in these instances, is try to trick you into turning your trade into commerce.  That can happen in dozens of ways.  But it always involves the introduction of a third party and some kind of conditional binding agreement that you voluntarily agree to.

If you put your Bitcoins on your taxes, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

If you register a Bitcoin business or sign up for a bit-license, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

If you have an agreement with a Bitcoin ATM manufacturer that you will "operate" the ATM using his exchange services, guess what?  You've voluntarily introduced a third party.

So, here's what you need to do in order to trade Bitcoins.  You hand over x Bitcoins;  you get y of whatever (Paypal-bux, Federal Reserve Notes, etc) in return.

That's it.

The moment that the other party starts talking about "I'm going to do this" or "I'm going to do that" with whatever you trade him, that's an attempt to turn voluntary trade into a binding commercial agreement.  The government will argue that, by continuing, you entered a commercial agreement with the other party and are therefore responsible for whatever idiotic things they told you they were going to do.

Yes, it's ridiculous.  But that's what they really think.

That's the basis of their jurisdiction.  It's the reason that every one of these actions includes the phrase "affecting inter-state commerce."

It all stems from an idiotic Supreme Court case, Wickard v. Filburn.  Filburn was a farmer who voluntarily signed up to receive government subsidies on his wheat crop.  From that point onward, the government argued that all of the wheat he produced, even for his own consumption, was bound by commercial agreement and subject to whatever regulations it wanted to impose on them.  And, incredibly, a bought-off Supreme Court agreed.

So, the way to avoid problems with trading on LocalBitcoins is that, whenever the other party starts saying "I'm going to do this" or "I'm going to do that" with whatever you trade them, just cancel the trade and walk away.  At the very least, if you have to continue, make it clear in no uncertain terms that whatever they do is their business, and that you are just engaged in trade.  You aren't their "partner".  You aren't a "corporation".  You aren't a "dealer".  You aren't an "exchange".  You're an individual engaged in trade.

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January 26, 2015, 01:13:02 AM
 #93

This sounds really bad. As far as I know, he is buying and selling bitcoins face to face, he is not running an exchange and money laundering?

I hope these are pumped up charges to get him to pay his evaded taxes  Embarrassed

Quote
unlicensed money transmitting business ... a digital currency exchange business ... transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense and were intended to be used to promote and support unlawful activity


Let's remember that Coinbase, Kraken do not have financial license until now. Maybe they will have "tomorrow". It doesn't matter, they do not have it NOW. They are on market since years ago !

 I am wondering why they are still free Smiley  The law should be for everybody, right?

According to the law, they operate money transmitter businesses.

US Gov seized 2 MIL from Mt Gox for that, they put in jail the Bitinstant's owner for 2 years. Same thing "Unlicensed Money Transmitter"
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January 26, 2015, 01:24:36 AM
 #94

Made some business with Burt back in the days. He blew 10000 BTC on Pirate if I remember right. Things were different back then but some day you have to pay your bills.
Wow thats crazy, i'll never own 100 I think Sad
When did he start in the bitcoin world? early investor and miner??
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January 26, 2015, 01:31:04 AM
 #95

what exchange did he run, or was he just a localbitcoins seller?

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January 26, 2015, 01:51:49 AM
 #96

what exchange did he run, or was he just a localbitcoins seller?

You're not big enough yet for them to be interested in you. Don't worry.


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January 26, 2015, 12:00:01 PM
 #97

Even worse is the US internet gambling laws. Pretty draconian compared to other countries in the so-called "free world".

Yeah their gambling laws and a lot of other ones don't make much sense. America likes to posture though they're pretty backward in a lot of respects, but we must remember it's the clowns in charge that make the laws and they're there to penalize people to suit certain agendas and benefit certain people whilst fucking over everyone else.

Made some business with Burt back in the days. He blew 10000 BTC on Pirate if I remember right. Things were different back then but some day you have to pay your bills.

This is a key point that people musn't forget. You might think it's easy to get away with but your countries tax man is always going to want their cut so always expect or plan for them whether legally or ilegally.

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January 26, 2015, 01:03:15 PM
 #98

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/01/26/colorado-man-facing-5-years-jail-for-buying-and-selling-bitcoin-without-a-license/

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January 26, 2015, 01:28:28 PM
 #99

So it's for real...what's up with these laws gosh.

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January 26, 2015, 01:31:48 PM
 #100


Its probably an isolated case. BurtW might be targeted after investigation of Pirate. Hes also selling and buying large amount of BTC with cash.

Its hard to even speculate because lack of details.
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