BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[Lauda]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

[1713896469]

1713896469

[bitcoin_bagholder]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

Yeah you can't really draw inferences from it.

[iCEBREAKER]

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".

A link to his profile here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14808

We need to help him.

There is no helping him the American "Justice" system.


~BCX~

Disagree.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.privacy/MKy0G4zl0WA/NskNTe-efE4J

[Gleb Gamow]

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".

A link to his profile here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14808

We need to help him.

There is no helping him the American "Justice" system.


~BCX~

Disagree.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.privacy/MKy0G4zl0WA/NskNTe-efE4J

Is that Gavin's brother?

[hilariousandco]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

Yeah you can't really draw inferences from it.

I haven't read the document but the quoted running an 'unlicensed money exchange business' could just be referring to him personally because that's technically what he was doing exchanging cash for coins (allegedly). You don't have to literally have set up a website or anything to get stung for that.

[kingscrown]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

Yeah you can't really draw inferences from it.

I haven't read the document but the quoted running an 'unlicensed money exchange business' could just be referring to him personally because that's technically what he was doing exchanging cash for coins (allegedly). You don't have to literally have set up a website or anything to get stung for that.

so localbitcoins is kind of illegal ?

[MrTeal]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

Yeah you can't really draw inferences from it.

I haven't read the document but the quoted running an 'unlicensed money exchange business' could just be referring to him personally because that's technically what he was doing exchanging cash for coins (allegedly). You don't have to literally have set up a website or anything to get stung for that.

so localbitcoins is kind of illegal ?

You should probably all read the actual document, especially the part smoothie quoted.
Too bad about Burt though, I like him. Keep in mind he did help run one of the biggest Pirate passthroughs. I wouldn't be surprised to see more indictments like this in the future.

[Madness]

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

Damn , that's bad . I just relized that he is a member on these forums
He do need help to be honest but I don't think that website is real , I don't think that a 8 years old girl speaks like that :x

[Soros Shorts]

You should probably all read the actual document, especially the part smoothie quoted.
Too bad about Burt though, I like him. Keep in mind he did help run one of the biggest Pirate passthroughs. I wouldn't be surprised to see more indictments like this in the future.

Are you implying that they took a closer look at him (picked on him) because of his PPT involvement? The date range in the complaint covers a period after the ponzi collapsed, so it couldn't have been directly related to that.

[Gleb Gamow]

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

Damn , that's bad . I just relized that he is a member on these forums
He do need help to be honest but I don't think that website is real , I don't think that a 8 years old girl speaks like that :x

Did you consider that perhaps the content was voiced as an 8 year old, oppose to one penning it after choosing what font to use. I'm sure we've all read prose that was supposedly written by one's family pet.

[PaulPierce]

Here it is:

BURTON WAGNER,
 did knowingly conduct, control, manage, supervise, direct, or own all or part of an unlicensed money transmitting business affecting interstate and foreign commerce, to wit, a digital currency exchange business which (A) operated without an appropriate money transmitting license in a state where such operation is punishable as a misdemeanor or felony under state law; (B) failed to comply with the money transmitting business regulations under Section 5330 of Title 31, United States Code, and regulations prescribed thereunder; and (C) involved the transport and transmission of funds that were known to the defendant to have been derived from a criminal offense

that is going to be hard to escape! need some really really good lawyer!

[QuestionAuthority]

The document doesn't exactly say what he was doing. It's mostly the usual legal stuff.
I knew this guy as well, this is quite disheartening.

Yeah you can't really draw inferences from it.

I haven't read the document but the quoted running an 'unlicensed money exchange business' could just be referring to him personally because that's technically what he was doing exchanging cash for coins (allegedly). You don't have to literally have set up a website or anything to get stung for that.

so localbitcoins is kind of illegal ?

You should probably all read the actual document, especially the part smoothie quoted.
Too bad about Burt though, I like him. Keep in mind he did help run one of the biggest Pirate passthroughs. I wouldn't be surprised to see more indictments like this in the future.

I've wondered for a long time why LEOs never went after any of the PPTs. Especially the ones that appeared in the Kings court in Las Vegas. Shavers must have known the true identity of the people that met with him in person. Couldn't he trade the info about his accomplices for leniency?

[Blazr]

I've wondered for a long time why LEOs never went after any of the PPTs. Especially the ones that appeared in the Kings court in Las Vegas. Shavers must have known the true identity of the people that met with him in person. Couldn't he trade the info about his accomplices for leniency?

I guess because they didn't "knowingly" participate in a ponzi, as they didn't know it was a ponzi at the time.

[QuestionAuthority]

I've wondered for a long time why LEOs never went after any of the PPTs. Especially the ones that appeared in the Kings court in Las Vegas. Shavers must have known the true identity of the people that met with him in person. Couldn't he trade the info about his accomplices for leniency?

I guess because they didn't "knowingly" participate in a ponzi, as they didn't know it was a ponzi at the time.

I'm not so sure. If you were sitting at that round table, wouldn't you ask how he was able to pay those kind of returns? I asked him a few times in threads here way before that meeting. I accused him of using the money for drug trade because that's the only business that could promise those kind of returns and not be a complete fraud. I would have been asking that question before I said hello. I think by the time they all met every one of them knew it was a ponzi. I think one of the reasons for the meet up was to keep them in line and moving forward with the plan. That means there are more arrests pending.

[dewdeded]

Is he in or out of jail?

[Tdowns]

Was he arrested only because of selling bitcoins for cash ?

[Quickseller]

Is he in or out of jail?

He most likely at one point was released from jail (potentially pending trial). The indictment is dated in October 2014 while his profile shows him as being last active december 28 2014. If I had to guess I would say he was arrested on or about the 11th of october.

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".

I'm afraid it might very well be.  he needs a good lawyer.

Has there been many of these "stings", whereby the undercover officer mentions illegal activity halfway through the deal and thus "entraps" (IMO) the suspect into incriminating themselves if they continue the transaction?

I wouldn't be surprised. Although I don't think it would meet the legal threshold of entrapment. Entrapment is when a law enforcement officer convinces someone to do something illegal. I do agree that this kind of activity by law enforcement is kind of shady as the person participating in the transaction likely would have already spent money preparing for the transaction (buying bitcoin on an exchange for example) or may have passed on other trades because of the one large trade that ends up being with law enforcement. As a result these sting operations end up giving the trader the choice of either loosing money by canceling the deal or breaking the law.

[MrTeal]

You should probably all read the actual document, especially the part smoothie quoted.
Too bad about Burt though, I like him. Keep in mind he did help run one of the biggest Pirate passthroughs. I wouldn't be surprised to see more indictments like this in the future.

Are you implying that they took a closer look at him (picked on him) because of his PPT involvement? The date range in the complaint covers a period after the ponzi collapsed, so it couldn't have been directly related to that.

It's hard to say, we'll have to wait for the trial to start. I didn't know Burt or his business that well, but he seemed like a pretty good guy. The timing seems odd that they would start to go after a ppt operator shortly after the investigation there would have started wrapping up.

[Blazr]

I'm not so sure. If you were sitting at that round table, wouldn't you ask how he was able to pay those kind of returns? I asked him a few times in threads here way before that meeting. I accused him of using the money for drug trade because that's the only business that could promise those kind of returns and not be a complete fraud. I would have been asking that question before I said hello. I think by the time they all met every one of them knew it was a ponzi. I think one of the reasons for the meet up was to keep them in line and moving forward with the plan. That means there are more arrests pending.

Pirateat40 told people he was daytrading, he even crashed the Bitcoin price at one point live on IRC to try and convince people he was earning lots from trading. I honestly think that at least some of the people sitting at that table didn't know what was going on, IIRC some of the PPT owners reported the scheme to the SEC once it was over and their statements were used against pirate in court. In fact, IIRC some of them claim to have lost money due to pirate.

The indictment against BurtW doesn't mention anything about a ponzi, passthrus or anything, it says he was selling Bitcoins as a business (not selling his own personal coins or selling significant volumes) without a license and that he sold Bitcoins to a person whom he knew was going to commit illegal activity with them. So I don't think it's related to the PPT's.

[mayax]

Was he arrested only because of selling bitcoins for cash ?

yes, you need to be licensed for that. All the US exchangers(the companies) will be under investigation very soon. it's illegal what they are ALL doing. Even the "big" ones are illegal. You will wonder how it is possible.

Well, think about how many big exchangers were closed during the time (Tradehill, Bitinstant, BitFloor and others). Coinbase and BitPay will be next(few months...maybe less). Stay tunned !