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Author Topic: REMOVE NUBBINS FROM THE DEFAULT TRUST LIST FOR REPEATED TRUST ABUSE  (Read 14961 times)
ABitNut
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March 05, 2015, 12:40:02 AM
 #201


Notice how most the seats are empty? This show is getting old.


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March 05, 2015, 12:47:23 AM
 #202

I don't think people should be allowed to leave negative trust ratings unless they can prove that the person is a scammer, or they can prove the person is leaving false trust ratings.
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March 05, 2015, 12:54:42 AM
 #203

I don't think people should be allowed to leave negative trust ratings unless they can prove that the person is a scammer, or they can prove the person is leaving false trust ratings.
This would not be a good idea. It would make it more difficult for the community to stop scammers from scamming in the first place and would make the entire marketplace more vulnerable to scams. If the marketplace is vulnerable to scams then people are not going to want to trade in the first place, which means that overall bitcoin commerce will decline
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March 05, 2015, 01:16:27 AM
 #204

I don't think people should be allowed to leave negative trust ratings unless they can prove that the person is a scammer, or they can prove the person is leaving false trust ratings.

I think people should use trust ratings however they please (AKA the current system!). All of this "rules about trust" nonsense is foolish.

Don't like how my ratings might unduly influence others? Then either give me two trust systems (one for public consumption and one for private use), or educate people on what trust is, how to read feedback pages, why to trust or doubt my ratings, etc. Putting the burden of behaviour modification on people who got inducted into DT is a backwards-thinking approach that doesn't tackle the root cause of the issue -- noobs getting misled by inaccurate feedback.

Imagine if all the time wasted on this thread was put towards writing a guide that helped new users understand how to objectively weigh presented evidence to form their own opinion!  Roll Eyes

But I guess it's way easier to just wag the chin about "mob action" and complain about how everything is unfair.

After all, complaining fixes things, right?

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
My OTC Web of Trust ratings / What's a PGP chain of custody?
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March 05, 2015, 01:29:56 AM
 #205

I think people should use trust ratings however they please (AKA the current system!). All of this "rules about trust" nonsense is foolish.
-snip-
I think that there should be some level of community standards when it comes to the trust system. Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off. 
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March 05, 2015, 02:22:30 AM
 #206

Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off. 

Let it happen.

When it gets bad enough, and the pages pile up with red enough, you'll realize what you should have realized from the start: your personal trust list shouldn't be Default Trust; it should be those you actually trust. You think any of your ratings even come up on my screen?

Not sure who to trust? Maybe that's something you need to figure out before you're responsible enough to use magic internet money.

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
My OTC Web of Trust ratings / What's a PGP chain of custody?
BitcoinFr34k
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March 05, 2015, 02:32:08 AM
 #207

Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off. 

Let it happen.

When it gets bad enough, and the pages pile up with red enough, you'll realize what you should have realized from the start: your personal trust list shouldn't be Default Trust; it should be those you actually trust. You think any of your ratings even come up on my screen?

Not sure who to trust? Maybe that's something you need to figure out before you're responsible enough to use magic internet money.
Well people who are very new to the community need to have some kind of default list to lean on while they are learning. If they do not have anything to lean on initially then they will have a lot of difficulty figuring out who to trust because of the massive amount of manipulation that goes on in the bitcoin world.

I think we should have a forum for people to voice their concerns about trust that others are giving as well as concerns about trust received. Equally important is the ability of people who leave trust for others to keep an open mind about possibly removing or modifying sent trust after receipt of feedback from others.

Now if your sent feedback is appropriate to be given to TECHSHARE is something that you will need to decide yourself 
ABitNut
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March 05, 2015, 02:43:23 AM
 #208

Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off. 

Let it happen.

When it gets bad enough, and the pages pile up with red enough, you'll realize what you should have realized from the start: your personal trust list shouldn't be Default Trust; it should be those you actually trust. You think any of your ratings even come up on my screen?

Not sure who to trust? Maybe that's something you need to figure out before you're responsible enough to use magic internet money.
Well people who are very new to the community need to have some kind of default list to lean on while they are learning. If they do not have anything to lean on initially then they will have a lot of difficulty figuring out who to trust because of the massive amount of manipulation that goes on in the bitcoin world.

I think we should have a forum for people to voice their concerns about trust that others are giving as well as concerns about trust received. Equally important is the ability of people who leave trust for others to keep an open mind about possibly removing or modifying sent trust after receipt of feedback from others.

Now if your sent feedback is appropriate to be given to TECHSHARE is something that you will need to decide yourself 

People who are new to the community shouldn't trust anyone. If we're "training" them to rely on green or red text they have less incentive to learn to stand on their own legs. If you're about to make a transaction I hope you've based your decision to trust the other party on something more substantial than this trust thingy and/or have taken steps to mitigate the risk.


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BitcoinFr34k
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March 05, 2015, 02:53:21 AM
 #209

Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off. 

Let it happen.

When it gets bad enough, and the pages pile up with red enough, you'll realize what you should have realized from the start: your personal trust list shouldn't be Default Trust; it should be those you actually trust. You think any of your ratings even come up on my screen?

Not sure who to trust? Maybe that's something you need to figure out before you're responsible enough to use magic internet money.
Well people who are very new to the community need to have some kind of default list to lean on while they are learning. If they do not have anything to lean on initially then they will have a lot of difficulty figuring out who to trust because of the massive amount of manipulation that goes on in the bitcoin world.

I think we should have a forum for people to voice their concerns about trust that others are giving as well as concerns about trust received. Equally important is the ability of people who leave trust for others to keep an open mind about possibly removing or modifying sent trust after receipt of feedback from others.

Now if your sent feedback is appropriate to be given to TECHSHARE is something that you will need to decide yourself 

People who are new to the community shouldn't trust anyone. If we're "training" them to rely on green or red text they have less incentive to learn to stand on their own legs. If you're about to make a transaction I hope you've based your decision to trust the other party on something more substantial than this trust thingy and/or have taken steps to mitigate the risk.
No I don't think a newbie should base any potential deal entirely on one's trust ratings, however I do think one's trust score should be the basis of where someone should start.

I know you will probably say that a newbie should say escrow (at least this is what many people say) however without the trust system, it is not possible to know for sure who it is appropriate to trust as escrow.
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March 05, 2015, 05:47:18 AM
 #210

Otherwise people will be exchanging feedback based solely on personal vendettas and if we give it enough time, then everyone will be labeled a scammer because everyone will at one point piss someone on default trust off.  

Let it happen.

When it gets bad enough, and the pages pile up with red enough, you'll realize what you should have realized from the start: your personal trust list shouldn't be Default Trust; it should be those you actually trust. You think any of your ratings even come up on my screen?

Not sure who to trust? Maybe that's something you need to figure out before you're responsible enough to use magic internet money.
Well people who are very new to the community need to have some kind of default list to lean on while they are learning. If they do not have anything to lean on initially then they will have a lot of difficulty figuring out who to trust because of the massive amount of manipulation that goes on in the bitcoin world.

I think we should have a forum for people to voice their concerns about trust that others are giving as well as concerns about trust received. Equally important is the ability of people who leave trust for others to keep an open mind about possibly removing or modifying sent trust after receipt of feedback from others.

Now if your sent feedback is appropriate to be given to TECHSHARE is something that you will need to decide yourself  

People who are new to the community shouldn't trust anyone. If we're "training" them to rely on green or red text they have less incentive to learn to stand on their own legs. If you're about to make a transaction I hope you've based your decision to trust the other party on something more substantial than this trust thingy and/or have taken steps to mitigate the risk.
No I don't think a newbie should base any potential deal entirely on one's trust ratings, however I do think one's trust score should be the basis of where someone should start.

I know you will probably say that a newbie should say escrow (at least this is what many people say) however without the trust system, it is not possible to know for sure who it is appropriate to trust as escrow.

I'm saying anybody should use common sense when making deals. When someone tries to sell you a 2014 Porsche Cayenne for a super attractive price, would you do some research? I'm guessing you would. Now if you're dealing with an anonymous person from an undisclosed location, would you do research? I'm hoping you would. You should take measures to protect yourself from getting scammed online, just as you would do out on the streets. Believing in some magical trust list is only making the ignorant more vulnerable, since it allows scammers to easily gain their "trust". And that's how (most) big scams work. Paying off for a while to gain trust and once trusted they pull their scam.

Edit: On re-reading I think I've gone way off topic. Motion to remove Nubbins from the default trust list; Denied. Again, or still.


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March 05, 2015, 01:08:01 PM
 #211

After all, complaining fixes things, right?

Complaining... you mean like in this thread you just opened reigniting this issue?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=969863.0

Motion to remove Nubbins from the default trust list; Denied. Again, or still.

Thank you for your judgement supreme justice nut.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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March 05, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
 #212


I think people should use trust ratings however they please (AKA the current system!). All of this "rules about trust" nonsense is foolish.

if you think this way than clearly that it is abusive to use it as the way we please especially those of default trust list

Don't like how my ratings might unduly influence others? Then either give me two trust systems (one for public consumption and one for private use), or educate people on what trust is, how to read feedback pages, why to trust or doubt my ratings, etc. Putting the burden of behaviour modification on people who got inducted into DT is a backwards-thinking approach that doesn't tackle the root cause of the issue -- noobs getting misled by inaccurate feedback.

Imagine if all the time wasted on this thread was put towards writing a guide that helped new users understand how to objectively weigh presented evidence to form their own opinion!  Roll Eyes

But I guess it's way easier to just wag the chin about "mob action" and complain about how everything is unfair.

After all, complaining fixes things, right?

it is basically that you are on default trust , that your judgement of trust is basically a guide for the other wether to trust or not to trust someone, if you feel that this is a burden, feel free to ask CITM to take you off his list
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March 05, 2015, 05:52:56 PM
 #213

if you think this way than clearly that it is abusive to use it as the way we please especially those of default trust list

What?

it is basically that you are on default trust , that your judgement of trust is basically a guide for the other wether to trust or not to trust someone, if you feel that this is a burden, feel free to ask CITM to take you off his list

What I'm saying is that it is incorrect to use me as a guide if I am a stranger to you. I don't feel any burden at all.

For some reason, people seem to think that I *should* carry a burden, as if this is somehow a more sensible approach than placing the burden on those who have not yet developed the ability to make intelligent choices. I have no idea why people think this way, but an offhanded guess would be that kids today have an extreme aversion to assuming personal responsibility, and will do anything in their power to shift the burden onto others. But what do I know?

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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March 05, 2015, 06:28:23 PM
 #214

if you think this way than clearly that it is abusive to use it as the way we please especially those of default trust list
What I'm saying is that it is incorrect to use me as a guide if I am a stranger to you. I don't feel any burden at all.
For some reason, people seem to think that I *should* carry a burden, as if this is somehow a more sensible approach than placing the burden on those who have not yet developed the ability to make intelligent choices.

The entire purpose of the trust system, especially the default trust, is to provide exactly those people with a guide of who to trade with until they can figure that out for themselves by gaining experience trading and building their own trust networks. If you don't want this responsibility you should ask Canaryinthemine to remove you for the default trust.

Of course you won't, because it gives you more power to attack people who dare to question your use and abuse of the system. Additionally it makes it more appealing for people to trade with you because trust ratings you leave have more weight. You just want the benefits but not any of the responsibility included along with it.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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March 06, 2015, 01:12:44 AM
 #215

Motion to remove Nubbins from the default trust list; Denied. Again, or still.
Thank you for your judgement supreme justice nut.

Is that going to be my official title now? Do I get ordained as the supreme justice nut any time soon? I'm assuming Admiral Ad Hominem will lead the ceremony.


Cheers  Grin


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March 06, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
 #216

The entire purpose of the trust system, especially the default trust, is to provide exactly those people with a guide of who to trade with until they can figure that out for themselves by gaining experience trading and building their own trust networks. If you don't want this responsibility you should ask Canaryinthemine to remove you for the default trust.

Of course you won't, because it gives you more power to attack people who dare to question your use and abuse of the system. Additionally it makes it more appealing for people to trade with you because trust ratings you leave have more weight. You just want the benefits but not any of the responsibility included along with it.

I'm sorry, the entire purpose of the trust system is to provide noobs with a "don't think, just trust" list? You're drunk, get out.

Your claim that DT makes it more appealing for people to trade with me doesn't hold water either. I have never left positive trust for people who have bought things from me; I've only left positive trust for users who sold me things where I pay up front. Y'know, where I trusted them.

I've had people beg me for ratings after purchasing things from me, but I've never done so because selling you something doesn't make me trust you.

Any other flawed arguments, or are you ready to admit you just hate my guts?

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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March 06, 2015, 03:46:04 PM
 #217

Will this story have a happy ending or not? It seems 12 pages for this argument are a little much. Maybe you both should apologize to each other (I assume  both are adult).
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March 06, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
 #218

Will this story have a happy ending or not? It seems 12 pages for this argument are a little much. Maybe you both should apologize to each other (I assume  both are adult).

Nothing to apologize for! I'll stick around until TECSHARE stops with the libellous statements Cheesy

Also: mildly surprised that people browse the Meta sub.

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March 06, 2015, 06:21:42 PM
 #219

Will this story have a happy ending or not? It seems 12 pages for this argument are a little much. Maybe you both should apologize to each other (I assume  both are adult).

Tell me please, what exactly do I have to apologize for to Nubbins? He abused the trust system to attempt to silence me from speaking about his abusive behavior, and I responded appropriately by posting a topic about it in Meta where it belongs. Everyone screams about how free speech is so important around here, but when a self proclaimed "scambuster" like nubbins abuses the trust system to try to silence people from pointing out his excessive and abusive behavior, suddenly it is debatable again because he is "doing good" by harassing people indiscriminately. By the way if you check back at these 12 pages, you will find they are mostly composed of Nubbin's mob and filled with off topic insults and character attacks that the staff refuse to respond to when reported. I am not sure how I should be responsible for the childishness of his little cabal of stalkers. I don't want an apology from Nubbins, I want him to be removed from the default trust list for his abusive behavior.



I'm sorry, the entire purpose of the trust system is to provide noobs with a "don't think, just trust" list? You're drunk, get out.

Your claim that DT makes it more appealing for people to trade with me doesn't hold water either. I have never left positive trust for people who have bought things from me; I've only left positive trust for users who sold me things where I pay up front. Y'know, where I trusted them.

I've had people beg me for ratings after purchasing things from me, but I've never done so because selling you something doesn't make me trust you.

Any other flawed arguments, or are you ready to admit you just hate my guts?

I didn't say any of that, but feel free to make up statements and attribute them to me as if I said them as usual. As far as leaving trust ratings for people, you are SUPPOSED to leave ratings for people you trade with. You are confusing a trust rating with your trust list. Just another example of how completely clueless you are about the trust system, and why you should not be on the default trust.

By the way, not a single statement I made about you was a lie, not one. If you really believe I lied about you please do quote this supposed lie, I would love to see your "proof" (oh wait you don't need proof just a string of accusations against anyone who disagrees with you). I don't hate you Nubbins, I hate the way you behave, and you should not occupy any position of authority as you have demonstrated very clearly you are unable to handle it and leave nothing but a trail of drama and destruction behind you any place you go.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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March 06, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
 #220

The entire purpose of the trust system, especially the default trust, is to provide exactly those people with a guide of who to trade with until they can figure that out for themselves by gaining experience trading and building their own trust networks.

I'm sorry, the entire purpose of the trust system is to provide noobs with a "don't think, just trust" list?

I didn't say any of that, but feel free to make up statements and attribute them to me as if I said them as usual.

 Cheesy

If you really believe I lied about you please do quote this supposed lie, I would love to see your "proof"

Off-topic, but whatever. Uh, it's all right there in the OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=969863.0

To quote you directly: "He also raised the price after I paid him the original amount he quoted." That's a lie. I gave you two options: receive a small refund (the default option) or pay slightly more for better shipping.

Stinky liar can't keep track of his lies! Better keep a lie journal.

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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