Bitcoin London Conference 2012

[apetersson]

what changes in society can we expect if a country is forced to adopt bitcoin?

as a thought experiment:
for example, if greece exits the euro, drachma hyperinflates and people turn to bitcoins, silver, gold. for practical reasons most transactions would take place in bitcoins..

lets assume the state or a an elected successor entity still exists how would the use of bitcoin shape society?

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[sunnankar]

1) I said nothing about "liking" ordinary governments or society -- that's just putting false words into my mouth.
2) Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on a very important point:

avoiding social upheaval

What happens if a government runs out of money? Are you sure you want to find out?

The jackbooted thugs do not get paid and go find something else to do besides stomping on your neck to either earn a living or starve to death. We are rapidly moving into a world where the return on investment from violence is negative not positive like it has been for the past 500 years of the Industrial Age.

If you really want some extremely insightful foresight then go read the 1997 book The Sovereign Individual; I have not come across a more prescient book for the transition from the Industrial Age to the Information Age.

[nevafuse]

We are rapidly moving into a world where the return on investment from violence is negative not positive like it has been for the past 500 years of the Industrial Age.

Couldn't agree more.  In fact, I'd argue trade has always been more profitable.  Why would you give money to war when you could buy more food, shelter, etc?  Because you previously didn't have a choice.  Bitcoin changes all of that.  Gold can be stolen, bank accounts can be frozen, but bitcoins can be stored in my mind!

[molecular]

Destroy the myth of a deflationary price spiral.

+1

really looking forward to that your talk, whatever it's about.

[Vandroiy]

Yes, the effects of deflation would be interesting. Still can't make up my mind on the topic.

The topics "Definition of money", "Fractional reserve banking, money supply" and "Mises' Regression Theorem" are all mostly relevant for people who want to know why Bitcoin is useful -- I'd expect that many people attending the conference already understand this. So it's no surprise the topics got less votes so far.

Fractional Reserve Banking in Bitcoin's possible future might be interesting for speculators.

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Bump. Vote if you haven't yet.

[ArticMine]

-how taxes would work in a bitcoin dominated world

Depends on what you mean:
- what the state should do to continue taxing people

+1

Will taxing people still be possible?...

+1
A lot US-biased people on these forums seem to complain about US-specific problems, and often advocate some kind of "anarchic" and presumably tax-free society in response to their country's problems. That's all very nice, but there don't seem to be any historic examples demonstrating how a Libertarian Utopia might actually work. And even if there used to be some anarchic societies in the past, clearly they all got destroyed for some or other reason. (Maybe they couldn't collect enough funds for a functional defence force, and a stronger, more evil power overpowered them?)

So, what I want to know is how can ordinary societies with ordinary governments incorporate Bitcoin into their taxation systems, while avoiding social upheaval? And why would they want to?

This is particularly important when the US based "solutions" have a profound implication on VAT/GST a form of taxation that is prevalent in every major economy with the notable exception of the United States of America. Treating Bitcoin as "money" or "currency" rather than as a "commodity" is critical to avoid major chaos when considering VAT/GST. 

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

So the results are in and the top 2 topics are:

Bitcoin competing with other currencies and payment systems 32 (35.2%)
Macroeconomic analysis of Bitcoin (includes deflation) 22 (24.2%)

So I plan to talking about how currencies and payment systems compete with each other and where Bitcoin stands in that, and if there is enough time, also about "deflation". I'll send off a paper to the organisers and we'll see if it gets accepted.

See you there.

[molecular]

So the results are in and the top 2 topics are:

Bitcoin competing with other currencies and payment systems 32 (35.2%)
Macroeconomic analysis of Bitcoin (includes deflation) 22 (24.2%)

So I plan to talking about how currencies and payment systems compete with each other and where Bitcoin stands in that, and if there is enough time, also about "deflation". I'll send off a paper to the organisers and we'll see if it gets accepted.

See you there.

cool. I hope there's enough time for the macroeceonomic analysis. I'm sure you'll be accepted.

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Looks like I was allocated a 45 minute slot. So I should have enough time for both topics. Now I just need to prepare the actual presentation .

See you next weekend.

[BobbyJo]

Good luck.  Sounds like it should be interesting.

[elvizzzzzzz]

Unfortunately I can't get to the Conference, so hopefully there will be links and comments
posted on the content.

I'm planning to get to the Kilkenomics festival in November, and have started a thread
if anyone is interested in an informal meeting on Bitcoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106598.0

 

[Monkey1]

Where can I find more details on the conference?  I cant find full details anywhere.

Being blind.  Obvious link in first post.

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

So, my talk took place today, and I got very positive feedback and insightful comments and questions. Molecular recorded it on the video so eventually it will be posted online. Thanks to all the poll participants and everyone that contributed in some way.

[mobodick]

Destroy the myth of a deflationary price spiral.

Yes please do. I just ran in to an 'economist' on a bus while wearing a bitcoin shirt and had to listen to him explain that Bitcoin would fail because bitcoins would be too valuable (which would make them worthless, doh).

Yup -  I've even had an argument (okay - a one-way argument) with Krugman on this:
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/530678-minorman/214527-paul-krugman-s-take-on-bitcoin

LOL at me having a whole discussion today in the Economy forum and basicly having the same point as a nobel price winner without knowing his work.

[mobodick]

LOL at me having a whole discussion today in the Economy forum and basicly having the same point as a nobel price winner without knowing his work.

It's fake. Apparently there's no Nobel prize in "Economics", so the Wall Street guys just made one up that sounds similar and is easily confused with the real thing.

Double LOL!