killer app idea :)

[albert11]

I am seriously starting to get irritated by all those comment claiming bitcoin isnt viable solution because its value is highly volatile, these articles are popping up everywhere

Of course it is volatile,people are not used to free unmanipulated markets, are people really expecting stability when you have a market cap of 3billions? 3 billions is equivalent to 1 very rich man... , bitcoin will stabilize if it is mass adopted and the average joe uses it in his every day life.

I feel that people who badly want bitcoin to fail will use the unstability issue to scare people away and as a result bitcoin not be adopted.


The volatility problem has been sorted on merchants side with bitpay, coinbase,etcc system but someone needs to come up with an app to protect buyer against volatility.

An app that integrates a btc exchange within the payment , customers hold $ and when he wants to pay in bitcoin  the conversion usd-->btc would be done automatically and instantly within the app ,something that will render value unstability totally irrelevant

I know it might be a  more difficult than it sounds but iam sure people who have the skills can come up with such system.

The big payment processor company and banks are coming up with new similar technology and the average joe will use them if they are easier to use because he doesnt understand the importance of not using government issued money.

If people can convert and pay instantly in btc they will do it because btc merchants are offering discount if people pay in btc

This is a technology and innovation war

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[albert11]

does anyone know if there are such projects in the making ?

[Aemon]

I think this is a great idea, the only problem I see is there isn't a lot of exchanges that can provide this mentality and there certainly isn't enough stores that will allow you to use Bitcoin to purchase the item.

[Lauda]

I am seriously starting to get irritated by all those comment claiming bitcoin isnt viable solution because its value is highly volatile, these articles are popping up everywhere

Of course it is volatile,people are not used to free unmanipulated markets , are people really expecting stability when u have a market cap of 3billions? 3 billions is equivalent to 1 very rich man... , bitcoin will stabilize if it is mass adopted and the average joe uses it in his every day life.

I feel that people who badly want bitcoin to fail will use the unstability issue to scare people away and as a result bitcoin not be adopted.


The volatility problem has been sorted on merchants side with bitpay, coinbase,etcc system but someone needs to come up with an app to protect buyer against volatility.

An app that integrates a btc exchange within the payment , customers hold $ and when he wants to pay in bitcoin  the conversion usd-->btc would be done automatically and instantly within the app ,something that will render value unstability totally irrelevant

I know it might be a  more difficult than it sounds but iam sure people who have the skills can come up with such system.

The big payment processor company and banks are coming up with new similar technology and the average joe will use them if they are easier to use because he doesnt understand the importance of not using government issued money.

If people can convert and pay instantly in btc they will do it because btc merchants are offering discount if people pay in btc

This is a technology and innovation war

If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.
The idea is solid, not bulletproof. I have not seen anything similar yet though.

[albert11]

I think this is a great idea, the only problem I see is there isn't a lot of exchanges that can provide this mentality and there certainly isn't enough stores that will allow you to use Bitcoin to purchase the item.

What do you mean with "this mentality"?

An exchange will massively benefit from integrating such application, that would actually be the first exchange
where the majority of people do not trade for speculative purposes and could go viral if done properly.

More and more merchants are accepting bitcoin everyday, the way i see it is that we could have every merchants on the planet
accepting bitcoin if people can't pay them as easily as with a cash transaction and without the volatility issue then the demand for
bitcoin will barely increase.

Bitcoin ecosystem is growing rapidly yet the value of btc decreases, this is because most people do not use bitcoin to buy things,you mostly
have speculators and investors,until the btc volatility isn't fixed bitcoin will never be widely adopted.
Meanwhile projects like Tether,applepay will be on the market and people will use that instead because they "protects"
the value of their hard earned money.

[albert11]

I am seriously starting to get irritated by all those comment claiming bitcoin isnt viable solution because its value is highly volatile, these articles are popping up everywhere

Of course it is volatile,people are not used to free unmanipulated markets , are people really expecting stability when u have a market cap of 3billions? 3 billions is equivalent to 1 very rich man... , bitcoin will stabilize if it is mass adopted and the average joe uses it in his every day life.

I feel that people who badly want bitcoin to fail will use the unstability issue to scare people away and as a result bitcoin not be adopted.


The volatility problem has been sorted on merchants side with bitpay, coinbase,etcc system but someone needs to come up with an app to protect buyer against volatility.

An app that integrates a btc exchange within the payment , customers hold $ and when he wants to pay in bitcoin  the conversion usd-->btc would be done automatically and instantly within the app ,something that will render value unstability totally irrelevant

I know it might be a  more difficult than it sounds but iam sure people who have the skills can come up with such system.

The big payment processor company and banks are coming up with new similar technology and the average joe will use them if they are easier to use because he doesnt understand the importance of not using government issued money.

If people can convert and pay instantly in btc they will do it because btc merchants are offering discount if people pay in btc

This is a technology and innovation war

If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.
The idea is solid, not bulletproof. I have not seen anything similar yet though.

""If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.""

not sure why you said that...

Why do you think the idea isn't bulletproof? what issue could such idea pose?

[Lauda]

If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.
The idea is solid, not bulletproof. I have not seen anything similar yet though.

""If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.""

not sure why you said that...

Why do you think the idea isn't bulletproof? what issue could such idea pose?

How about you read the law. I'll assume you're from the US (which you most likely are not; your English?).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1960

You have to be a registered money transmitter to do such a thing.

[albert11]

If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.
The idea is solid, not bulletproof. I have not seen anything similar yet though.

""If you want to get arrested by doing this without a licence, definitely go for it.""

not sure why you said that...

Why do you think the idea isn't bulletproof? what issue could such idea pose?

How about you read the law. I'll assume you're from the US (which you most likely are not; your English?).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1960

You have to be a registered money transmitter to do such a thing.

How about you read my original post properly. Did i ever mentionned that i had the intention of doing this without a license? or even doing it myself?

your answer was off topic and inappropriate no offence though

Here was my question:

why do you think the idea isn't bulletproof? what issue could such idea pose?

[inBitweTrust]

Its not a bad idea , but would be illegal in many countries. The problem is getting all the licensees per each jurisdiction would take a lifetime. (Coinbase has only received 13 states thus far after a year and they have spent plenty on the effort) Additionally , we want to encourage people to hold more BTC and not fiat.

I like the way you are thinking though.

[funtotry]

Not really the point of bitcoin, but its a great idea for the people who want to try out bitcoin and how it works. Keeps the instability out of it, but I think bitcoin will become stable over time

[albert11]

@funtotry

how do you think bitcoin will become stable over time?

I really don't see what will bring the masses to adopt it before volatility is solved, e-commerce maybe?


@inBitweTrust

I'm a bit confused about these licences, why do coinbase needs to get approval from so many states?

I live in europe, my country doesn't have any specific regulation in place and was allowed to buy BTC at coinbase.


the best would be an app doing instant conversion/payment using a decentralized open source exchange that would be a brilliant piece

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

Its not a bad idea , but would be illegal in many countries. The problem is getting all the licensees per each jurisdiction would take a lifetime. (Coinbase has only received 13 states thus far after a year and they have spent plenty on the effort) Additionally , we want to encourage people to hold more BTC and not fiat.

I like the way you are thinking though.

His idea is than answer in the short run to bootstrap cash without a bank that is stable, but that is what ripple and i thought tether are already doing.

[inBitweTrust]

@funtotry

how do you think bitcoin will become stable over time?

I really don't see what will bring the masses to adopt it before volatility is solved, e-commerce maybe?


@inBitweTrust

I'm a bit confused about these licences, why do coinbase needs to get approval from so many states?

I live in europe, my country doesn't have any specific regulation in place and was allowed to buy BTC at coinbase.


the best would be an app doing instant conversion/payment using a decentralized open source exchange that would be a brilliant piece

Bitcoin should become much more stable over time and already is a better store of value than certain Fiat currencies.
The legal issue won't go away, and states have a long history of going after and attacking anyone that competes with them.
As far as explaining you the intricacies of the convulted legal system in the US it would take to long and still not answer the question
as the US doesn't even follow their own laws.

Any devs that work on such a wallet that you propose should do so in secret like satoshi, because making a wallet which breaks the law
with every transaction would certainly get you a lot of attention, and in their eyes much worse than wallets like -dark wallet that just focuses
on privacy.

[albert11]

Its not a bad idea , but would be illegal in many countries. The problem is getting all the licensees per each jurisdiction would take a lifetime. (Coinbase has only received 13 states thus far after a year and they have spent plenty on the effort) Additionally , we want to encourage people to hold more BTC and not fiat.

I like the way you are thinking though.

His idea is than answer in the short run to bootstrap cash without a bank that is stable, but that is what ripple and i thought tether are already doing.

tether doesn't solve volatility issue, it only allows people to send $ over the blockchain but sadly it's backed by fiat!

does ripple have such system integrated ? can you elaborate on bootstrap cash? im not familiar with this

thx

[albert11]

@funtotry

how do you think bitcoin will become stable over time?

I really don't see what will bring the masses to adopt it before volatility is solved, e-commerce maybe?


@inBitweTrust

I'm a bit confused about these licences, why do coinbase needs to get approval from so many states?

I live in europe, my country doesn't have any specific regulation in place and was allowed to buy BTC at coinbase.


the best would be an app doing instant conversion/payment using a decentralized open source exchange that would be a brilliant piece

Bitcoin should become much more stable over time and already is a better store of value than certain Fiat currencies.
The legal issue won't go away, and states have a long history of going after and attacking anyone that competes with them.
As far as explaining you the intricacies of the convulted legal system in the US it would take to long and still not answer the question
as the US doesn't even follow their own laws.

Any devs that work on such a wallet that you propose should do so in secret like satoshi, because making a wallet which breaks the law
with every transaction would certainly get you a lot of attention, and in their eyes much worse than wallets like -dark wallet that just focuses
on privacy.

What i was proposing is no different than running an exchange with this app on top, owner would have to have a licence and be registered as a money transmitter.
If i hold $ in my coinbase account, say i want to buy a coffee for 2$ i can just buy 2$ worth of bitcoin instantly on coinbase or an other exchange and send them to the merchant, this way i am not subject to btc fluctuation, my idea is to make this process more efficient and instant.

[inBitweTrust]

What i was proposing is no different than running an exchange with this app on top, owner would have to have a licence and be registered as a money transmitter.
If i hold $ in my coinbase account, say i want to buy a coffee for 2$ i can just buy 2$ worth of bitcoin instantly on coinbase or an other exchange and send them to the merchant, this way i am not subject to btc fluctuation, my idea is to make this process more efficient and instant.

Coinbase already does this with their instant buyback option -
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/89402160917/buyback-bitcoin-after-checkout

The problem is due to state laws ... the new btc needs to be ach's to you which takes time, but at least you lock in the dollar amount minus the 1 % fee ...with the MSB licenses per state they can keep fiat in your coinbase account which allows you to buy btc for free now and 0.25% in the future but only in certain states for the moment ... this isn't just a problem with the US as laws and regulation vary country per country and it gets quite complex...

I like the way you are thinking but your idea forces people to keep most their funds in fiat which doesn't help bitcoin grow and become more stable naturally... you are essentially turning bitcoin into a decentralized payment protocol and removing the amazing properties of being a disinflationary currency.

does ripple have such system integrated ? can you elaborate on bootstrap cash? im not familiar with this

Ripple is centralized, debt based, and basicly a different form of paypal... it is so different that it really shouldn't be mentioned in this discussion.

[gogxmagog]

@albert11

I love this idea, and also how you think! I have been saying for a while that there needs to be a way to get the consumer to use BTC without having to even think about it. Without even necessarily knowing they are using it. It is the "killer app" and so far, your dead simple idea is the closest thing yet.

There are hurdles to pass though, not easy ones either. Two I can think of are;

a) Regulation. Arduous, expensive, painfully slow, could run up against better funded opponent lobbies... regulation is huge and tough. Never mind the banks...Many true BTC believers, even, will hate hate hate the very notion. regulation could very well strangle your baby to death. just sayin~

b) The "holding $ on an exchange" part. This could be very problematic. None of the exchanges seem to be able to actually hang onto your "held" funds. I try to never leave anything on there for long, you are always taking your chances, if they don't get hacked, or shuttered by the (ach) regulators, then they outright abscond with the $ and that's the end of that. Not saying you have anything of the sort in mind, just that it has happened so many times that nobody has any faith left, BTC believers and non BTC users alike.

I like your enthusiasm, its the start of many a great career, but I'm also betting that these sort of apps are already in mind by the big players, they simply need regulatory approval and security0.2 first.

[albert11]

What i was proposing is no different than running an exchange with this app on top, owner would have to have a licence and be registered as a money transmitter.
If i hold $ in my coinbase account, say i want to buy a coffee for 2$ i can just buy 2$ worth of bitcoin instantly on coinbase or an other exchange and send them to the merchant, this way i am not subject to btc fluctuation, my idea is to make this process more efficient and instant.

Coinbase already does this with their instant buyback option -
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/89402160917/buyback-bitcoin-after-checkout

The problem is due to state laws ... the new btc needs to be ach's to you which takes time, but at least you lock in the dollar amount minus the 1 % fee ...with the MSB licenses per state they can keep fiat in your coinbase account which allows you to buy btc for free now and 0.25% in the future but only in certain states for the moment ... this isn't just a problem with the US as laws and regulation vary country per country and it gets quite complex...

I like the way you are thinking but your idea forces people to keep most their funds in fiat which doesn't help bitcoin grow and become more stable naturally... you are essentially turning bitcoin into a decentralized payment protocol and removing the amazing properties of being a disinflationary currency.

oh my bad you are absolutely correct not sure why but i always thought you couldn't deposit btc and lock in the dollar amount on most exchanges, i thought only a few like btc-e did that but you had to sell those coins so ultimately lose money and never really trusted those site either.

Actually it would be nice to have a way of locking the dollar amount in our desktop wallet for instance, being able to stabilize the value without using a third party that send your info to DEA

[albert11]

@albert11

I love this idea, and also how you think! I have been saying for a while that there needs to be a way to get the consumer to use BTC without having to even think about it. Without even necessarily knowing they are using it. It is the "killer app" and so far, your dead simple idea is the closest thing yet.

There are hurdles to pass though, not easy ones either. Two I can think of are;

a) Regulation. Arduous, expensive, painfully slow, could run up against better funded opponent lobbies... regulation is huge and tough. Never mind the banks...Many true BTC believers, even, will hate hate hate the very notion. regulation could very well strangle your baby to death. just sayin~

b) The "holding $ on an exchange" part. This could be very problematic. None of the exchanges seem to be able to actually hang onto your "held" funds. I try to never leave anything on there for long, you are always taking your chances, if they don't get hacked, or shuttered by the (ach) regulators, then they outright abscond with the $ and that's the end of that. Not saying you have anything of the sort in mind, just that it has happened so many times that nobody has any faith left, BTC believers and non BTC users alike.

I like your enthusiasm, its the start of many a great career, but I'm also betting that these sort of apps are already in mind by the big players, they simply need regulatory approval and security0.2 first.

hey thanks gogxmagog ,I totally agree with you especially 1st paragraph ^^joke

We need to find ways to work around regulation and the key to that is decentralization otherwise the btc will become no better than fiat.

I know many open source projects do develop regardless of regulations and that's the way to go.

The only issue i see with btc currently is stability.

Anonymity and privacy can easily be achieved and i see many option in the future that will enable us to keep it but what can we do for stability of the value?
maybe use another crypto with a fixed value to hedge our wealth?

[inBitweTrust]

oh my bad you are absolutely correct not sure why but i always thought you couldn't deposit btc and lock in the dollar amount on most exchanges, i thought only a few like btc-e did that but you had to sell those coins so ultimately lose money and never really trusted those site either.

Actually it would be nice to have a way of locking the dollar amount in our desktop wallet for instance, being able to stabilize the value without using a third party that send your info to DEA

One solution is to use a combination of Peter Todd's CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY -http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06250.html with a sidechain to lock in BTC in a bond where the sidechains algo took a rolling volatility average over the preceding year to calculate the expected risk the community would feel comfortable accepting for digital representations of fiat /gold /ect backed securities that would lock themselves on the blockchain and pay dividends, be partially refunded, or bought back after maturity.

The way it would work in practice:

1) download a wallet and deposit arbitrary amount ... i.E.. 2 BTC(lets say is worth 500usd at the time)
2) Decide you want half of it denominated in a more stable currency and half in BTC
3) Transfer half BTC to purchase 250 of bitusd(name doesn't matter) but essentially a fiat representation asset on a Bitcoin sidechain which locks in 250 usd of bitcoin of 1 Bitcoin. The sidechain algo calculates +/-40% volatility during the previous 12 months so allots 200 bitusd tokens that are pegged to the value of the usd fiat.
4) Consumer now has a wallet with security assets backed by BTC and straight BTC (200 worth of  bitusd and 1 bitcoin)
5) Consumer can now make purchases using the security or bitcoin depending on which is accepted or more advantageous at the moment. (I.E.. if BTC is up spend the BTC, if not than spend the bitusd.


When the timelock is mature the user has several choices :

1) If Bitcoin has increased in value above the initial purchase price the algo would than calculate the previous volatility average and allow the user to either receive a dividend of the difference in BTC, a securitized asset like bitgold/bitusd/bituero/ect , or they can receive all their BTC back and the appreciation with a buyback.

2) If Bitcoin has decreased in value below the initial purchase price the algo would  than calculate the previous volatility average and allow the user to either buy the difference to keep their securitized asset valuation or forfeit their deposited BTC which will than be sold on a trustless decentralized exchange for any other of the sidechains securitized assets.

This would all work fine assuming Bitcoin survives.

Anybody is free to steal this idea and make it your own or modify it as long as you do so for the good of the community....