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Question: Bitcoin fork proposal by respected Bitcoin lead dev Gavin Andresen, to increase the block size from 1MB to 20MB.
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Author Topic: Bitcoin 20MB Fork  (Read 154247 times)
Cryddit
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February 16, 2015, 07:21:00 AM
 #1481

Please illuminate us with a Nash reference and what is exactly the precise PROPER perpective that cancels out the need for more than 3 tps in a global currency?
Thank you.  

I must reiterate, because words do not transfer well on the internet.  Sometimes I re read what I write and see it can be taken many different ways. In order to know the mathematical answer to "what is block size", FIRST you need to know what "ideal money" is.  Otherwise we are putting the cart before the horse.  There are many peoples theories on the subject, but of course we would hesitate to listen to them if they haven't AT LEAST READ the lecture "Ideal Money" by John Nash.  

You were asked a direct question.  You have not answered it.  Please provide a direct answer, by citing a specific paper, published on a specific date, that someone can look up and go read.  

I reiterate.  I have read Nash.  He did not write about any situation in which the total transaction rate per time was constrained.  Your claim to the contrary is without proof.  If you disagree -- that is, if you have proof -- then produce it.  Otherwise you will be ignored.




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traincarswreck
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February 16, 2015, 07:24:47 AM
 #1482



Nash would have been a great science fiction writer IMHO. His conjectures are as fanciful and thought provoking as anything by Asimov, Heinlein, or Wells. Money is a social construct and nothing more. Great thinkers challenge the optics of social perspectives encompassing civilization. Like all scientists, they stand on the shoulders of their intellectual predecessors.

Using someone else's work to validate your own hypotheses requires diligent referencing and clearly support your arguments. Merely name dropping someone and claiming they support you is fallaciously arguing from authority and without merit.
You deity Satoshi is not real.  Your religion crumbles.  The works are all cited, and very well, you have not read them.
traincarswreck
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February 16, 2015, 07:26:05 AM
 #1483

You were asked a direct question.  You have not answered it.  Please provide a direct answer, by citing a specific paper, published on a specific date, that someone can look up and go read.  

I reiterate.  I have read Nash.  He did not write about any situation in which the total transaction rate per time was constrained.  Your claim to the contrary is without proof.  If you disagree -- that is, if you have proof -- then produce it.  Otherwise you will be ignored.
http://sites.stat.psu.edu/~babu/nash/money.pdf

Keep in mind, I am the worlds greatest poker player.  If you ignore the material presented, then you suffer from your own ignorance.
traincarswreck
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February 16, 2015, 07:28:41 AM
 #1484

Ya'll can't read this can you?
Quote from: Ideal Money
My opinion is that if it were too easy to set up a form of “global money” that the version achieved might have characteristics of inferiority which would make it, compar-atively, more like a relatively inferior national currency than like any of the more praiseworthy national or imperial currencies known to historical records.

But there is a good prospect for avoiding the estab-lishment of another, possibly deceptive, currency of infer-ior quality. Here I think of the possibility that a good sort of international currency might EVOLVE before the time when an official establishment might occur.

So my personal view is that a practical global money might most favorably evolve through the development first of a few regional currencies of truly good quality. And then the “integration” or “coordination” of those into a global currency would become just a technical problem. (Here I am thinking of a politically neutral form of a technological utility rather than of a money which might, for example, be used to exert pressures in a conflict situation comparable to “the cold war”.)

 If it becomes a matter of strong and definite prefer-ences that the money used should have definite character-istics of quality then, in principle, the people can demand that. For example formerly there was the drachma and now there is, in Greece, the euro instead of that. And the people seem to be pleased with the change.

But the famous classical "Gresham’s Law" also reveals the intrinsic difficulty. Thus "good money" will not naturally supplant and replace "bad money" by a simple Darwinian superiority of competitive species. Rather than that, it must be that the good things are established by the voluntary choice of human agencies. And these resp-onsible agencies, being naturally of the domain of polit-ically derived authorities, would need to make appropriate efforts to achieve such a goal and to pay the costs that are entailed before their societies can benefit.

An example of an efficiently working global reform (at least in relation to electronic manufactures) is the metric system, with its central Bureau located near Paris. And this is an example of a system of yardsticks where inflation is currently NOT in fashion!
If "Ideal Money" requires a consensus to change block size...you will not achieve it...DUCY?
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February 16, 2015, 07:28:58 AM
 #1485


You deity Satoshi is not real.  Your religion crumbles.  The works are all cited, and very well, you have not read them.
[/quote]
Time for you to start a new troll account. This one is ignored. Fortunately for you the admins allow newbies to post right away in all the forums. It's to bad you are a troll, I was hoping you had something interesting to say.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Cryddit
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February 16, 2015, 07:29:55 AM
 #1486

You fail.

I have read that paper, ages ago.  One of the many things he did not mention was any form of money whose transaction rate is limited in time.

Welcome to my kill file, because you are lying.
traincarswreck
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February 16, 2015, 07:32:39 AM
Last edit: February 16, 2015, 07:53:45 AM by traincarswreck
 #1487

Quote
One of the many things he did not mention was any form of money whose transaction rate is limited in time.
Szabo did though  Grin

You have not understood the problem, because you are functioning on a religious myth. Tell us how you came across the paper "Ideal Money"?
danielpbarron
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February 16, 2015, 02:00:12 PM
 #1488

in case the hard fork goes through(I know, you don't believe it is going to happen.... but you should always plan for these "black swan " events)

If, against all odds, USGavincoin wins: I will be done with "cryptocurrency." My plan in that event is to find something else to do. I don't want to have anything to do with totalitarian systems. It's like you're saying "you should plan for sucking Hitler's knob in the event that the Nazis win WW2."


MP's going to do what he's going to do, but I'd be highly inclined to have the pogo's be free (in the software sense) and open.
I think 20MB is fine

We wouldn't have it any other way, except you still won't be allowed to use it.

And to those of you who still say "I think 20MB is fine," I have this to ask: do you currently maintain a full node? Before you answer, think carefully. A full node has the entire blockchain history. It isn't enough to have all the block headers, or all the unspent outputs. You need to have everything. It also needs to have an uptime greater than 90% (really more than 99%, but I'm feeling generous).

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
hdbuck
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February 16, 2015, 02:02:51 PM
 #1489

in case the hard fork goes through(I know, you don't believe it is going to happen.... but you should always plan for these "black swan " events)

If, against all odds, USGavincoin wins: I will be done with "cryptocurrency." My plan in that event is to find something else to do. I don't want to have anything to do with totalitarian systems. It's like you're saying "you should plan for sucking Hitler's knob in the event that the Nazis win WW2."


MP's going to do what he's going to do, but I'd be highly inclined to have the pogo's be free (in the software sense) and open.
I think 20MB is fine

We wouldn't have it any other way, except you still won't be allowed to use it.

And to those of you who still say "I think 20MB is fine," I have this to ask: do you currently maintain a full node? Before you answer, think carefully. A full node has the entire blockchain history. It isn't enough to have all the block headers, or all the unspent outputs. You need to have everything. It also needs to have an uptime greater than 90% (really more than 99%, but I'm feeling generous).

mate, could you provide us with the contingency plan regarding mining the prefork coin? cuz without miners, MP aint gonna do anything, and its not the 10k nodes giveaway that will change anything.
also considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..
danielpbarron
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February 16, 2015, 02:05:23 PM
 #1490

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
cbeast
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February 16, 2015, 02:06:57 PM
 #1491

in case the hard fork goes through(I know, you don't believe it is going to happen.... but you should always plan for these "black swan " events)

If, against all odds, USGavincoin wins: I will be done with "cryptocurrency." My plan in that event is to find something else to do. I don't want to have anything to do with totalitarian systems. It's like you're saying "you should plan for sucking Hitler's knob in the event that the Nazis win WW2."


MP's going to do what he's going to do, but I'd be highly inclined to have the pogo's be free (in the software sense) and open.
I think 20MB is fine

We wouldn't have it any other way, except you still won't be allowed to use it.

And to those of you who still say "I think 20MB is fine," I have this to ask: do you currently maintain a full node? Before you answer, think carefully. A full node has the entire blockchain history. It isn't enough to have all the block headers, or all the unspent outputs. You need to have everything. It also needs to have an uptime greater than 90% (really more than 99%, but I'm feeling generous).
You had me at Hitler's knob.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
hdbuck
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February 16, 2015, 02:07:14 PM
 #1492

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still.. did not answered my question.
danielpbarron
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February 16, 2015, 02:11:37 PM
 #1493

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still..

It doesn't matter what miners want. If you had truly been reading the logs, you would have known that.

And if you have been reading the logs, and that one just slipped by: why aren't you in the WoT?

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
hdbuck
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February 16, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
 #1494

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still..

It doesn't matter what miners want. If you had truly been reading the logs, you would have known that.

And if you have been reading the logs, and that one just slipped by: why aren't you in the WoT?

oi im on it Tongue
danielpbarron
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February 16, 2015, 02:20:17 PM
 #1495

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still..

It doesn't matter what miners want. If you had truly been reading the logs, you would have known that.

And if you have been reading the logs, and that one just slipped by: why aren't you in the WoT?

oi im on it Tongue

A rating from some nobody does not make you part of the WoT. Go make some friends who actually count.

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
hdbuck
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February 16, 2015, 02:21:32 PM
 #1496

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still..

It doesn't matter what miners want. If you had truly been reading the logs, you would have known that.

And if you have been reading the logs, and that one just slipped by: why aren't you in the WoT?

oi im on it Tongue

A rating from some nobody does not make you part of the WoT. Go make some friends who actually count.

lol whatever, i dont need internet friends anyway. ^^
cbeast
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February 16, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
 #1497

considering the fact that all the 'big' players are likely going to agree on this before anything actually happen..

The big players have agreed: it ain't gonna happen. Take your head out of the sand, and start reading the logs.

these are not 'big' miners, maybe hobbyists at the very best..

ps: thank you but been reading the logs for 1+ year now... but still..

It doesn't matter what miners want. If you had truly been reading the logs, you would have known that.

And if you have been reading the logs, and that one just slipped by: why aren't you in the WoT?
Ridiculous. A large majority of miners will need to support the hard fork for the sake of security. That whole blog is so full of FUD I can see why you link it but are afraid to quote it.

BTW, I refused to participate in the WoT because Bitcoin is trustless.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
danielpbarron
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February 16, 2015, 02:31:01 PM
 #1498

BTW, I refused to participate in the WoT because Bitcoin is trustless.

This is so stupid I just have to break from spontaneous laughter to address it.

You are confusing the trustless nature of the currency with the trust-dependent nature of business interaction. Here, I'll go ahead and quote this one, seeing as how it's a mantra that should be printed in place of "in God we trust" on bills:

Quote
have sex - with humans; do business - with keys

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
hdbuck
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February 16, 2015, 02:32:45 PM
 #1499

Quote
have sex - with humans; do business - with keys

lmao thats actually a good one

better not mix it up  Cheesy
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February 16, 2015, 02:43:25 PM
 #1500

BTW, I refused to participate in the WoT because Bitcoin is trustless.

This is so stupid I just have to break from spontaneous laughter to address it.

You are confusing the trustless nature of the currency with the trust-dependent nature of business interaction. Here, I'll go ahead and quote this one, seeing as how it's a mantra that should be printed in place of "in God we trust" on bills:

Quote
have sex - with humans; do business - with keys
Again you had me at Hitler's knob. Besides, I have a FICO score that gives me all the credit I need.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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