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Author Topic: Beginner's Guide  (Read 296094 times)
epi 1:10,000
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May 31, 2011, 12:54:08 AM
 #41


q(7/6C[$&Z/>j$/)@X6jF9}cVWLg$,?Z1/b) = Good password

Ith1nkMyP@swordR0cks0924186 = Vulnerable to dictionary attack

hitmeagain97 = please take over my account steal my identity and take all my money

That second password would be fine (assuming you hadn't posted it in a forum).  It has a length that is could not be brute forced, and the number of digits tacked on the end prevents a dictionary attack, as does the number of words strung together.  Even the last password is not terribly bad for resistance against a casual attacker.  I'd recommend a few more characters to stop a powerful brute-forcer, but it is complex enough to not be dictionary-attacked.



Indeed it is highly improbable to to use current dictionary to crack the second password but as dictionarys advance this hypothetical password will become obsolete in the future.  I don't know how long that will take but with the rise of hackers supported by organized crime and/or governments I'm sure multiple terabyte dictionarys or rainbow tables, are around the corner.  I prefer to encourage new users to use future proof passwords bordering on paranoid with the use of an encrypted password manager.  This also requires that you keep mutiple backups of your encrypted password manager file on multiple media including off cite like wuala
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May 31, 2011, 02:03:54 AM
 #42

Hi Zombiedeity, I've also got some sort of a mining rig discussion although no one really goes there anymore. But it has a number of other thread links to building a rig. Also, due to recent difficulty increase, maybe you'd like to take a second look into investing into hardware before you go ahead on that. Smiley

However, I can tell you that if you're just investing into the graphics card and upgrading your computer. You'd almost always profit from that as the hardware investment is not just solely into Mining but double as a hardware upgrade for yourself. Even if the cards doesn't pay itself off like some speculations I see, you'll see it as upgrading your hardwares for a discounted price after cashing out the BTC you've generated.

I have read several posts advising against buying a mining rig as an investment.  However, using the Bitcoin Mining Profitability Calculator, http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php which takes into account the current difficulty level, it's looking like I could pay off even a $3000 3x6990 rig in 3 months and make over just under a grand in profit every month thereafter.  That's not even accounting for the fact that Bitcoins are likely to continue rising in value over the course of those months.  I just don't see how it's a bad investment.  And even if BTC tanks as a currency, the hardware I buy will still be worth a good bit for personal use or resale.

Thanks for your input!

That tool is for a constant difficulty, so of no value at all as the difficulty has been rising exponentially. You won't make enough to pay off your $3,000 unless the value of BTC rises and, if it does rise, you're better off buying $3,000 of BTC instead and making money from the rise.

To put this in cointext, 3 weeks ago I was getting 12 BTC a day, now I'm getting 3. In 3 more weeks I'll probably be getting 1 BTC a day.

I have read this many times... about buying being more profitable in the face of increases in difficulty and the value of BTC relative to the USD.  But that's not exactly true.  If I buy $3k in BTC today and the value drops to nothing tomorrow, I'm out $3k.  If I buy a $3k mining rig and the same thing happens, I have an asset worth almost $3k that I can sell or use.

Also, your 3 BTC actually seems quite good for your hash rate.  Even if you were only getting 1 BTC per day, at today's exchange rate (conservatively, $8.5 USD/BTC via Mt Gox) and given your hash rate of 658 Mhashes/s, that would give someone with a 2.1 GHash/s rig $8.5/658*2100*30 = $813 per month.  If we subtract a liberal $400 per month for electricity and cooling costs, that's $413 of revenue.  I wouldn't want to live on that, but what other hobby or investment is going to rake that in with such low risk while I sit back and read a novel?
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May 31, 2011, 03:05:39 AM
 #43

Hi Zombiedeity, I've also got some sort of a mining rig discussion although no one really goes there anymore. But it has a number of other thread links to building a rig. Also, due to recent difficulty increase, maybe you'd like to take a second look into investing into hardware before you go ahead on that. Smiley

However, I can tell you that if you're just investing into the graphics card and upgrading your computer. You'd almost always profit from that as the hardware investment is not just solely into Mining but double as a hardware upgrade for yourself. Even if the cards doesn't pay itself off like some speculations I see, you'll see it as upgrading your hardwares for a discounted price after cashing out the BTC you've generated.

I have read several posts advising against buying a mining rig as an investment.  However, using the Bitcoin Mining Profitability Calculator, http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php which takes into account the current difficulty level, it's looking like I could pay off even a $3000 3x6990 rig in 3 months and make over just under a grand in profit every month thereafter.  That's not even accounting for the fact that Bitcoins are likely to continue rising in value over the course of those months.  I just don't see how it's a bad investment.  And even if BTC tanks as a currency, the hardware I buy will still be worth a good bit for personal use or resale.

Thanks for your input!

That tool is for a constant difficulty, so of no value at all as the difficulty has been rising exponentially. You won't make enough to pay off your $3,000 unless the value of BTC rises and, if it does rise, you're better off buying $3,000 of BTC instead and making money from the rise.

To put this in cointext, 3 weeks ago I was getting 12 BTC a day, now I'm getting 3. In 3 more weeks I'll probably be getting 1 BTC a day.

I have read this many times... about buying being more profitable in the face of increases in difficulty and the value of BTC relative to the USD.  But that's not exactly true.  If I buy $3k in BTC today and the value drops to nothing tomorrow, I'm out $3k.  If I buy a $3k mining rig and the same thing happens, I have an asset worth almost $3k that I can sell or use.

Also, your 3 BTC actually seems quite good for your hash rate.  Even if you were only getting 1 BTC per day, at today's exchange rate (conservatively, $8.5 USD/BTC via Mt Gox) and given your hash rate of 658 Mhashes/s, that would give someone with a 2.1 GHash/s rig $8.5/658*2100*30 = $813 per month.  If we subtract a liberal $400 per month for electricity and cooling costs, that's $413 of revenue.  I wouldn't want to live on that, but what other hobby or investment is going to rake that in with such low risk while I sit back and read a novel?

Yes I agree, and to point out something people don't really mention much. If I were to buy $3k worth of BTC I'll probably be monitoring the exchange rate constantly or at least a few hours a day. Compared to a well set up miner which I probably would spend less than a few minutes checking it's status everyday.

And I doubt there is going to be another 10x jump anytime soon, which means a modest $1 jump would make me $375 which is less than what $3k worth of mining equipment would get me. A $3 jump, maybe worthwhile. But for all that hours I spend worrying and checking out the charts, it's just like working. I'd rather kick back and do my own stuff or get a job.

One might argue that if you spend $3k investing into hardware you'd still be worried about the future (rates) of bitcoins, yes. But not as much as mentioned, since I'd still have the hardware to sell. Essentially, if those depreciate to around 65%, but I've already made 40% worth of BTC then I'd have broke even and made a profit. And if you intend to use the hardware, it doesn't even matter that it didn't breakeven, consider u've bought the equipments at a 40% discount.

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May 31, 2011, 03:55:16 AM
 #44

Not to mention the possibility of password mining on thousands of GPUs. Cheesy

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June 02, 2011, 06:26:22 AM
 #45

Hi people. I've kinda got my computer back and running although I might have to reconfigure it in a few days again since it's not as stable as I'd like to. But I've got my backup wallet connected and I'd like to thank whoever sent the tip for appreciation of this guide Smiley

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June 04, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
 #46

I notice a lot of posts about overclocking and asking how to under clock certain graphics cards. Maybe it would be helpful to have a section for the more serious miners that would like to take mining to the next level with tweaks and overclocks to their systems. Obviously it wouldn't be recommended to overclock but if they wish to do so the resources are there so they can do it properly.

Other than that great guide. It should help all the newcomers to bitcoin and serve as a solid reference to anyone interested in bitcoin as well.

Smiley  : 1LbvSEJwtQZKLSQQVYxQJes8YneQk2yhE3
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June 04, 2011, 06:31:56 AM
 #47

I've been considering that recently, however aren't these stuff a little more than 'beginner' is something my friend point out. So I might add a few threads below for people considering to 'Advance' themselves after the beginner section. Although I believe by then the 'search' function should be much more familiar to some already

I myself have just started Overclocking the cards and have been searching all over the forum and the internet about OC, things like core clock, mem clock, voltage and fan speed.

If you would, please help me get something up Smiley It'd be great if you could point me to some threads or guide online. Oh, and advice me on this, I've downclock my mem to 300 on my 58xx series (as I've heard it's good for Temp), OC 'em on core to stable freq that I've read (didn't bother to do it myself sounds tedious). What does the voltage do and Fanspeed have been 100% for a few days. I'm wondering if that's good for the fan...

EDIT: Added a simple description on the new 'Advance' section. Please do share with me some information, sites, threads that'd do good for people just getting into the advance stuff. I recall a day or two before someone posted a very clear process of how simple tweaks increased his hash rate and optimized his rig for mining, even with a chart of his cards' hash rate over time. I'd love to link his thread in this section but I can't find it. If you know the link please let me know thanks.

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June 04, 2011, 06:55:03 AM
 #48

Great, great writeup! If only there was an "applaud" button Tongue
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June 04, 2011, 06:59:57 AM
 #49

Thanks a lot. I guess that's why it's a bitcoin thing to include ur wallet address everywhere we go hahaha. Anyway I'll be glad if senior members would help make the guide much more complete as I'm still learning myself Smiley

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June 04, 2011, 08:00:16 PM
 #50

I followed the guide completely.

I am having a big problem. I followed everything that you have done but I can't get bitcoin.exe to open with -server. Every time, I get
 
Warning: to use the '-server' option, you must set rpcpassword = <password> in the configuration file 'C:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/Bitcoin/bitcoin.conf. If the file does not exist, create it with owner-readable-only file permissions"
 
I have already made the bitcoin.conf file in C:\Users\Allen\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin
 multiple times. This is what's inside it
rpcuser=youruser
rpcpassword=password

No matter what I do I can't start it. I've redeleted and remade the files several times over. I've restarted my computer. I've quadruple checked the directories and I'm 100% sure that the bitcoin.conf file is in the right spot. However, everytime I start bitcoin -server I get the above message saying I have not set that yet I have!!!Thank you.

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June 04, 2011, 08:55:00 PM
 #51

No matter what I do I can't start it. I've redeleted and remade the files several times over. I've restarted my computer. I've quadruple checked the directories and I'm 100% sure that the bitcoin.conf file is in the right spot. However, everytime I start bitcoin -server I get the above message saying I have not set that yet I have!!!Thank you.

Make sure the text document is actually saved as a .conf and not a .txt

Check the file properties for that, and also make sure to actually set the user and pass to something other than default.

Also check the permissions, make sure all can read.

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June 05, 2011, 02:56:54 AM
 #52

Windows or Ubuntu

Windows
Which version.
Might be Control Panel > Appearance & Settings > Folder Options > View [Tab] > Hide extension for known file type [uncheck]
And check if it's actually still a *.txt file

No matter what I do I can't start it. I've redeleted and remade the files several times over. I've restarted my computer. I've quadruple checked the directories and I'm 100% sure that the bitcoin.conf file is in the right spot. However, everytime I start bitcoin -server I get the above message saying I have not set that yet I have!!!Thank you.

Make sure the text document is actually saved as a .conf and not a .txt

Check the file properties for that, and also make sure to actually set the user and pass to something other than default.

Also check the permissions, make sure all can read.

Ubuntu Installed or LiveCD?
For LiveCD I believe you'll need to have Persistence for files & settings to be saved. I'm no expert but at least list down your setting so it'd be easier to help.

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June 05, 2011, 03:00:33 AM
 #53

Thank you for the help. I had this solved in another thread. It was actually still a txt file, with the name bitcoin.conf.txt

Also, how do I stop mining. I am using poclbm. Do I just close the command prompts? Does it auto save? What do I close first, the command prompt in which i typed -bitcoin.exe -server, the actual standard bitcoin, or the instances of poclbm? Thanks in advance!

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June 05, 2011, 03:24:58 AM
 #54


There is nothing to "save."

Work is reported back to the server you've pointed poclbm at.  It's possible you'll cancel before work can be reported back (or during) and in that case you could lose a block, but... I don't the current miners have a soft-shutdown option that forces it to stop and report back any completed work before ending.

In windows, you can easily throw this in a batch file:
taskkill /f /fi "imagename eq poclbm.exe"

In Linux:
killall -HUP poclbm

Replace poclbm/poclbm.exe with whatever you're using.

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June 07, 2011, 01:42:42 AM
 #55

Thanks SchizophrenicX for this guide.

Your "Mining Bitcoins" link is bad.
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June 07, 2011, 04:19:03 AM
 #56

Thanks SchizophrenicX for this guide.

Your "Mining Bitcoins" link is bad.
 Wink


Thanks Smiley

I fixed the link to target the wiki page instead since I can't seem to get it to the particular section of Bitcoin - Generation.

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June 07, 2011, 06:25:07 PM
 #57

Query: Why are the first two "Mining" threads linked in this thread the 2 worst, most clearly proven wrong threads on the matter? JJG was a long time contender than buying a mining rig was 'stupid' and 'a waste of money', and that was back in april before the biggest most profitable mining point in bitcoin history. Gameover's thread "analyzed" the cost/reward of mining bitcoins and was proven completely wrong on his projections in the first difficulty increase.

I understand an introduction to mining should be warnings, but both of those boogeymen were way way off and continue to be way way off.

Why not use http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7531.0 as an intro? Nice customizable spreadsheet with helpful useful variables that can give people a sense of where they might stand. If you really want dire warnings you could just have a text line saying  "BTW this is an investment and like all investments could end up being worth nothing."

EDIT: Would also be good to include in addition a guide on how to solo mine?
You include a good guide to mining in a pool, and tucked away a minor warning about mining under a pool on deepbit about how it could ruin bitcoins, but even as an experienced miner I'm not totally comfortable with the aspects of solo mining, so there is no way a newbie will without some more coaching.
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June 08, 2011, 07:26:33 PM
 #58

Query: Why are the first two "Mining" threads linked in this thread the 2 worst, most clearly proven wrong threads on the matter? JJG was a long time contender than buying a mining rig was 'stupid' and 'a waste of money', and that was back in april before the biggest most profitable mining point in bitcoin history. Gameover's thread "analyzed" the cost/reward of mining bitcoins and was proven completely wrong on his projections in the first difficulty increase.

I understand an introduction to mining should be warnings, but both of those boogeymen were way way off and continue to be way way off.

Why not use http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7531.0 as an intro? Nice customizable spreadsheet with helpful useful variables that can give people a sense of where they might stand. If you really want dire warnings you could just have a text line saying  "BTW this is an investment and like all investments could end up being worth nothing."

EDIT: Would also be good to include in addition a guide on how to solo mine?
You include a good guide to mining in a pool, and tucked away a minor warning about mining under a pool on deepbit about how it could ruin bitcoins, but even as an experienced miner I'm not totally comfortable with the aspects of solo mining, so there is no way a newbie will without some more coaching.

I'm not sure about those being way way off as I myself is still learning. I think it had served me well in understanding some basic economics of this market. I understand that it is from a while ago but I don't think people will take it as is and will go into an investment without going thru some numbers of their own to see where they stand today.

You may be right, but I've been really busy with trying to get Ubuntu and Phoenix setup for my 1 rig while trying to find out how I could sell bitcoins. Maybe you could point me to some better threads that those.

I did include SgtSpike's spreadsheet, I think it's a good resource to have for those too lazy to create their own or are really just too new. I can't really put anything on Solo mining as I have mentioned time and again. I, myself isn't a real techie and is still considerably new to the scene, I'm still learning how to make my first sale of Bitcoins in fact so I'm in no position to write anything on Solo mining, also no one has suggested until now. I'd really need some help if this were to be added into the guide.

Also, for beginner's I don't recommend solo mining unless they are planning to go in with a huge investment right away. I started trying it out as a casual miner and I believe most people would do that before becoming more serious. At current capacity, I believe the solo hash rate required to be successful would be way more than what a casual miner would own.

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June 08, 2011, 08:28:08 PM
 #59

Also, for beginner's I don't recommend solo mining unless they are planning to go in with a huge investment right away. I started trying it out as a casual miner and I believe most people would do that before becoming more serious. At current capacity, I believe the solo hash rate required to be successful would be way more than what a casual miner would own.

I agree.  Unless you have a hash rate in the double digits of Ghashes/s, pooled mining is the best way to go.  However, I would also advise beginners against "casual" mining.  There just isn't any point.  Buy as much equipment as you can afford and go balls deep.  The ROI is too good right now for being slow or hesitant about it.  Anyone disagree?
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June 09, 2011, 03:32:13 AM
 #60

It was that good last night but as all things that goes up, it has to come down. even a little. It was overly aggressive (till $35 bux) I don't think that's gonna stick.

Going balls deep is something I mention not someone beginning would do (at least not any one), however I do recognize that there are such cases. If that's the case, I'd say this person would have a lot of unanswered question that this guide has yet to provide.

Anyway due to the price hype, by the time any newcomers get a huge amount of rigs going the next difficulty jump would probably equalize the exchange to difficulty profitability. I'm quite sure an influx of mining is coming in the next few days. It's already ~30% now. history might repeat itself

EDIT: I've added a new link. Also put the 'proved wrong' links last in the section. I know some threads are getting old and during this period it may or may not have been wrong in it's 'prediction' however, I do believe there are good analysis being made and beginner's can learn how to make some calculations of their own instead of expecting people to do it for them. Having said that, if you find any threads being irrelevant and/or you have come across a more recent replacement please do let me know Smiley

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