Bitwala - Blockchain Banking

[Dangerous_Mind]

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15€ fee on a 100€ transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25€ on fees?
Is that normal?

[1713542340]

1713542340

[1713542340]

1713542340

[bitwala]

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15€ fee on a 100€ transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25€ on fees?
Is that normal?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

Fees for international money transfers:
We offer multipel local currencies for 0,5% (min €1) and some local currencies for 1,0% + €15, but these have nothing to do with card top ups.

List of all our fees:  
You can find all our fees here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Please let me know if this answers your question otherwise feel free to get to me.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala


 

[Samarkand]

...

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

...
 

I´ve read that you cooperate with Bitpay. Can I assume that this is the same exchange
rate as displayed in the Bitwala dashboard?
https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-exchange-rates

Is there any other way to view the current exchange rate you use without a Bitwala account?
I´m not a Bitwala customer as of now and would like to confirm, if your marketrate is really
as competitive as you claim in the Bitcoin Debit Card comparison on your website.

Thank you for your help.

[Dangerous_Mind]

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15€ fee on a 100€ transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25€ on fees?
Is that normal?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

Fees for international money transfers:
We offer multipel local currencies for 0,5% (min €1) and some local currencies for 1,0% + €15, but these have nothing to do with card top ups.

List of all our fees:  
You can find all our fees here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Please let me know if this answers your question otherwise feel free to get to me.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala


 

According to your support line its a UTXO. And it's asking me a fee from 13€ to 21€ for a 100€ transfer.
The amount you ask for this "Transaction fee" is always different for the same amount all most two times. I've seen fees from 13€ to 21€ in a day.

Also the EUR you pay for each bitcoin from the wallet to the card is very low compared to market value. Is at least 10% lower.

So if you have 114€ (0.0032 btc) on your wallet you will only receive around 94€ (0.002790 btc) in your card  and pay a fee off 16.50€ (0.00488 btc).
Your network fee can be any value. I already had a fee of 21€ for this some amount some hours back.
In this case I would receive 89€ for my 114€. 25€ less.

My question is:
How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
Why didn't I pay 13€ as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8€ to my bank account?
Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card

[bitwala]

I´ve read that you cooperate with Bitpay. Can I assume that this is the same exchange
rate as displayed in the Bitwala dashboard?
https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-exchange-rates

Is there any other way to view the current exchange rate you use without a Bitwala account?
I´m not a Bitwala customer as of now and would like to confirm, if your marketrate is really
as competitive as you claim in the Bitcoin Debit Card comparison on your website.

Thank you for your help.

Hi Samarkand,

Yes, some of our rates are the same as those offered by Bitpay (e.g. BTC to EUR). If you would like to see our rates you can find them here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who.

I'm looking forward to reading about your own comparison.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[biddicoin]

It seems that I can pay all bills I like with your service.

One question :

If I buy a product in an online store and pay with your service bank transfer, is there a way the shop can send you the money back if I send the product back to the store?

Or don't you offer this?

And is there a way to to pay PayPal?

Normally I would use all4btc for it. But I read a Lot of bad things. ..

Regards

biddi

[bitwala]

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15€ fee on a 100€ transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25€ on fees?
Is that normal?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

Fees for international money transfers:
We offer multipel local currencies for 0,5% (min €1) and some local currencies for 1,0% + €15, but these have nothing to do with card top ups.

List of all our fees:  
You can find all our fees here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Please let me know if this answers your question otherwise feel free to get to me.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala


 

According to your support line its a UTXO. And it's asking me a fee from 13€ to 21€ for a 100€ transfer.
The amount you ask for this "Transaction fee" is always different for the same amount all most two times. I've seen fees from 13€ to 21€ in a day.

Also the EUR you pay for each bitcoin from the wallet to the card is very low compared to market value. Is at least 10% lower.

So if you have 114€ (0.0032 btc) on your wallet you will only receive around 94€ (0.002790 btc) in your card  and pay a fee off 16.50€ (0.00488 btc).
Your network fee can be any value. I already had a fee of 21€ for this some amount some hours back.
In this case I would receive 89€ for my 114€. 25€ less.

My question is:
How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
Why didn't I pay 13€ as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8€ to my bank account?
Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

Thank you for getting back to me.

How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.

Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
The conversion rate is the same for card top ups. The amount shown in the top up invoice incl. the network fees and the UTXO fees. We will be launching an update that will show you a breakdown of all fees in more detail when topping up your card very shortly.

Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
The amount of BTC is always the same but it can happen that the app is showing a slightly different amount. The reason for this is that the app is maybe not in sync with the web app.  

Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
The conversion rates on our apps and on the web are the same. Please double check and try reloading your page and please remember that the app is maybe not in sync.  

Why didn't I pay 13€ as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8€ to my bank account?
The amount of network fees depends on the volume of data needed to be put on the Blockchain. The data volume depends on how small your received BTC amounts are that you want to send. E.g. you could pay for a coffee with one 2€ coin or with 200x 1 Cent coins. The 200x 1 Cent coins are more work to process than the single 2€ coin and therefore the fees are higher. I would like to emphasize that Bitwala has no influence on these fees or on the UTXO fees.

Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.

And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card
Thank you for pointing that out. We have updated our help section.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[bitwala]

It seems that I can pay all bills I like with your service.

One question :

If I buy a product in an online store and pay with your service bank transfer, is there a way the shop can send you the money back if I send the product back to the store?

Or don't you offer this?

And is there a way to to pay PayPal?

Normally I would use all4btc for it. But I read a Lot of bad things. ..

Regards

biddi

Hi Biddi,

We do offer to send money to stores.
If you pay via bank transfer and need to receive a refund the e-commerce shop will ask you for your IBAN address and send the money accordingly. When transferring money via bank transfer the receiver never receives your bank details and so can't automatically refund to our or your account.  

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[biddicoin]

Hello,

thank you for your answer!

So if I understand you right - in case of sending it back to the store I have to use my Bank account for refund and cannot send it back to your Bank account to receive bitcoin back in the end?!

In this case you would have to give me bank details. I understand that the shop doesn't have them automatically.

[Dangerous_Mind]

Hi,

Why do you announce a 0,5% fee to transfer money to the card and then lower the value of the bitcoins transferred (about 10%) and add a 15€ fee on a 100€ transfer instead of the 0,5%?
Making a total of 25€ on fees?
Is that normal?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

Fees for card top ups:
When you top up your card we exchange your Bitcoin (at the rate shown on your dashboard - my.bitwala.com) in Euro and load your card with that amount. Our fee is 0,5% + network fees.

Fees for international money transfers:
We offer multipel local currencies for 0,5% (min €1) and some local currencies for 1,0% + €15, but these have nothing to do with card top ups.

List of all our fees:  
You can find all our fees here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Please let me know if this answers your question otherwise feel free to get to me.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala


 

According to your support line its a UTXO. And it's asking me a fee from 13€ to 21€ for a 100€ transfer.
The amount you ask for this "Transaction fee" is always different for the same amount all most two times. I've seen fees from 13€ to 21€ in a day.

Also the EUR you pay for each bitcoin from the wallet to the card is very low compared to market value. Is at least 10% lower.

So if you have 114€ (0.0032 btc) on your wallet you will only receive around 94€ (0.002790 btc) in your card  and pay a fee off 16.50€ (0.00488 btc).
Your network fee can be any value. I already had a fee of 21€ for this some amount some hours back.
In this case I would receive 89€ for my 114€. 25€ less.

My question is:
How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
Why didn't I pay 13€ as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8€ to my bank account?
Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

Thank you for getting back to me.

How is your network fee calculated and why does it have so many different values?
This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/

Where do you get the rate for BTC to EUR conversion?
You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.

Why the value you have in the wallet in EUR is not the same has the conversion value you use on the Top Up option?
The conversion rate is the same for card top ups. The amount shown in the top up invoice incl. the network fees and the UTXO fees. We will be launching an update that will show you a breakdown of all fees in more detail when topping up your card very shortly.

Why the value in EUR on the mobile phone is not the same as in the internet site?
The amount of BTC is always the same but it can happen that the app is showing a slightly different amount. The reason for this is that the app is maybe not in sync with the web app.  

Why the conversion rate is not the same as both values (site and app)?
The conversion rates on our apps and on the web are the same. Please double check and try reloading your page and please remember that the app is maybe not in sync.  

Why didn't I pay 13€ as network fee the first time I tested the service moving 8€ to my bank account?
The amount of network fees depends on the volume of data needed to be put on the Blockchain. The data volume depends on how small your received BTC amounts are that you want to send. E.g. you could pay for a coffee with one 2€ coin or with 200x 1 Cent coins. The 200x 1 Cent coins are more work to process than the single 2€ coin and therefore the fees are higher. I would like to emphasize that Bitwala has no influence on these fees or on the UTXO fees.

Why there is no option to select the satoshi/byte we pay for each transaction on the top up option?
Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.

And why don't you mention anything about network fees and coin conversion rate used on your support page? https://help.bitwala.com/card/how-do-i-top-up-my-bitwala-prepaid-card
Thank you for pointing that out. We have updated our help section.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/ (https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/)
That page points to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ and that page says:
"Which fee should I use?

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 420 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 94,920 satoshis." = 3.3 EUR.

You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ (https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/) The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.
There is no information about rates on that link. I have level 2. Only with level 2 I could get a card.

Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.
Like you said "we should have full control over our Bitcoins" and we should decide if we need the money that instant or one week later.
The satoshi rate is "influenced" by the mempool. I don't need to apply a 500 satoshi/byte if the pool is empty because the time will needed to complete the transaction will be the same.

At this moment I could pay 31 satoshi and it would take 20 mins to make the transaction. If I pay 500 it could take until 30 mins.
Why would I pay 16 times more if I could even receive the money before?
But your UTXO fee continues at 15€.

I use services that join transactions and they charge us 0,2% of the amount to pay for bitcoin fees. Exchange services don't use fees that high.

All this discussion could be avoided if this information was on your site or next to operation we were using.
As a example you have Xapo. He has his conversion rates right under the value and we already know that they will pay 100€ less for each bitcoin (around 9%). And people can decide to use the service or not. But they are not miss leading people.

There are a lot of things that you have to improve on your services.

By the way. Your app has been giving internal server error for some days wen trying to transfere money to a bank account.

[bitwala]

Hello,

thank you for your answer!

So if I understand you right - in case of sending it back to the store I have to use my Bank account for refund and cannot send it back to your Bank account to receive bitcoin back in the end?!

In this case you would have to give me bank details. I understand that the shop doesn't have them automatically.

Hi Biddicoin,

Yes, you are correct. The merchant would contact you via email directly and ask you for your bank details, or you would email your merchant and inform him where to send the refund.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala   

[bitwala]

Bitwala’s Statement on SegWit2x - https://www.bitwala.com/bitwala-statement-segwit2x/

[Dangerous_Mind]

I was going to drop this subject. Then I saw this:

The UTXO is 2.45€ before the transaction
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/36382405330_7618705339_b.jpg

And then the UTXO is 18.5€ on the same transaction confirmation.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/36640348341_f81c753d19_b.jpg

Care to comment?

[bitwala]

I was going to drop this subject. Then I saw this:

The UTXO is 2.45€ before the transaction


And then the UTXO is 18.5€ on the same transaction confirmation.


Care to comment?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

Thank you getting back to us I was just working on answering your questions about our exchange rate.

So you always have 2 UTXO fees one that covers the necessary UTXO fees that allows us to process your payment and one to pay the UTXO fees to send your funds to us. We (and our competitors) don't have any influence when it comes to these fees.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[bitwala]

A This is a very complex question to answer but you can find an explanation here: https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/ (https://www.bitwala.com/pricing/)
That page points to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ and that page says:
"Which fee should I use?

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 420 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 94,920 satoshis." = 3.3 EUR.

B You can find most of our rates here: https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/ (https://my.bitwala.com/send/who/) The rest you can see as soon as you unlocked level 2 and level 3.
There is no information about rates on that link. I have level 2. Only with level 2 I could get a card.

C Our policy towards our cards is that users should have full control over their Bitcoin and also be able to use them on their card with minimal delay. For this reason we have setup the satoshi/byte rate to be quick to insure this.
Like you said "we should have full control over our Bitcoins" and we should decide if we need the money that instant or one week later.
The satoshi rate is "influenced" by the mempool. I don't need to apply a 500 satoshi/byte if the pool is empty because the time will needed to complete the transaction will be the same.

At this moment I could pay 31 satoshi and it would take 20 mins to make the transaction. If I pay 500 it could take until 30 mins.
Why would I pay 16 times more if I could even receive the money before?
But your UTXO fee continues at 15€.

I use services that join transactions and they charge us 0,2% of the amount to pay for bitcoin fees. Exchange services don't use fees that high.

All this discussion could be avoided if this information was on your site or next to operation we were using.
As a example you have Xapo. He has his conversion rates right under the value and we already know that they will pay 100€ less for each bitcoin (around 9%). And people can decide to use the service or not. But they are not miss leading people.

There are a lot of things that you have to improve on your services.

By the way. Your app has been giving internal server error for some days wen trying to transfere money to a bank account.

A
https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ The recommended fees are dynamic and change very frequently. I recommend looking on weekends to see the different.
 
B
Please look at the top right corner. This rate gives you a very good idea of the rate you will be getting. Remember to refresh the page if you want the most updated one.

C
If you wish to change the  satoshi/byte please top up your card on the web app and not on the mobile app. https://my.bitwala.com/ 

I thank you for your very good idea to show our exchange rate on our website and not only on the dashboard. I have posted your suggestion here: http://feedback.bitwala.com/ 

Our tech team is working on fixing the server error on mobile app. Please try installing the latest version in the mean time.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[Dangerous_Mind]

I was going to drop this subject. Then I saw this:

The UTXO is 2.45€ before the transaction
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/36382405330_7618705339_b.jpg

And then the UTXO is 18.5€ on the same transaction confirmation.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/36640348341_f81c753d19_b.jpg

Care to comment?

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

Thank you getting back to us I was just working on answering your questions about our exchange rate.

So you always have 2 UTXO fees one that covers the necessary UTXO fees that allows us to process your payment and one to pay the UTXO fees to send your funds to us. We (and our competitors) don't have any influence when it comes to these fees.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

So the first UTXO fee costs 2.45€ and the second costs 15€...

I just talked to one of your competitors and they said:

At the moment, the miner fee within our services is fixed and makes 0,0005 BTC (1.78€) per transaction. However, we are planning to give to our users an opportunity to choose the amount they are willing to pay for outgoing transactions by themselves.

They take there money on other fees like 1% on the transaction. If I would make a transaction of 5.000€ with them I would pay much more on there service but would pay much less if I make a 100€ transaction with you.

We have to know what are the rules of the game to make the best choices. And we won't trust our money to companies that hides things from us.

Your support has another explanation for this...

The fee depends on the number of incoming transactions to your wallet, so the more of transaction transferring to or away from your wallet the higher the fee you will have pay for the transaction.

Glad I made few transactions.

[bitwala]

So the first UTXO fee costs 2.45€ and the second costs 15€...

I just talked to one of your competitors and they said:

At the moment, the miner fee within our services is fixed and makes 0,0005 BTC (1.78€) per transaction. However, we are planning to give to our users an opportunity to choose the amount they are willing to pay for outgoing transactions by themselves.

They take there money on other fees like 1% on the transaction. If I would make a transaction of 5.000€ with them I would pay much more on there service but would pay much less if I make a 100€ transaction with you.

We have to know what are the rules of the game to make the best choices. And we won't trust our money to companies that hides things from us.

Your support has another explanation for this...

The fee depends on the number of incoming transactions to your wallet, so the more of transaction transferring to or away from your wallet the higher the fee you will have pay for the transaction.

Glad I made few transactions.

Hi Dangerous_Mind,

The explanation from our support team and the one i gave you give you the full scope of the issue. Simple explained if you pay for a coffee with the equivalent of 2€ in "one coin" or with 200x "1 Cent coins" this will make a big difference when using Bitcoin and the Blockchain. This is because the data volume is hight = more network and UTXO fees.  Please try to top up a competitors card from the same wallet as you did ours and you have the same network and UTXO fees. The difference is that you will have more EUROs on your card with us.

Happy to hear about your findings.

Best regards,

Robert @Bitwala

[Dangerous_Mind]

C
If you wish to change the  satoshi/byte please top up your card on the web app and not on the mobile app. https://my.bitwala.com/ 

As a matter of fact I was going to ask you that question. I only see that option on the send money.
I can top up the card from here https://my.bitwala.com/bitcoin?

It would be a good solution. Where can I find my card address?

[bitwala]

Hey there,

You can do it here - https://my.bitwala.com/cards

Best regards,
Bitwala Team

[Dangerous_Mind]

Hey there,

You can do it here - https://my.bitwala.com/cards

Best regards,
Bitwala Team

There is no option to control the satoshi/byte in there.
Robert just told me I could change it when sending money to my card.

C
If you wish to change the  satoshi/byte please top up your card on the web app and not on the mobile app. https://my.bitwala.com/   (https://my.bitwala.com/)

Where is that option?