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Author Topic: Bitcoin Killer App: High Yield Investments  (Read 8928 times)
kiba
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July 23, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
 #21

Good advice that I expect will be widely ignored: only invest in what you know.

We need a bitcoin motivational poster:


DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

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July 23, 2012, 03:14:11 PM
 #22

I don't think anyones been "waiting" for that, its been widespread since it began a few months back, it certainly is helping the economy, though.

Until of course some "unplanned" dramatic collapse which decimates the BTC price, makes normal people more wary, grossly enriches a sneaky moraless few, wipes out the gullible or naive and consumes the forums posts with re-incriminations, accusations and disgust.

So, I don't know, yes-and-no. :-)

+1
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July 23, 2012, 03:21:01 PM
 #23

the rewards are far too big to be sustainable

if real world  saving investments are paying 5% -8% per year its unlikely that BTC can continue to pay 67%-3400% without some people losing their principal ,i would love to be wrong about this but i think  the decisions of a few are  going to change the community forever

Not necessarily.

The interest rate an economy can support is directly related to the health of the underlying economy and stability of the currency (See The Theory of Money). In Bitcoin's case one can reasonably infer from the interest rates and limited currency supply that the Bitcoin economy is extremely strong.

5-8% per week might be unsustainable, but that does not mean that it is a ponzi. It just means that not everyone can get 3400% times their money, like we all know. Interest rates are being adjusted for savings accounts anyways.
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July 23, 2012, 05:07:18 PM
 #24

Good advice that I expect will be widely ignored: only invest in what you know.

We need a bitcoin motivational poster:


DO YOUR HOMEWORK!


LOOSE WALLETS SINK SHIPS!

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Soros Shorts
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July 23, 2012, 05:30:18 PM
 #25

And if you're one of the lucky few who make money on them, don't expect me to admire your investing wisdom, any more than I'd admire the number-picking brilliance of a lottery winner.

I disagree. Being able to correctly read the general emotion of the investing "herd" is a far, far more valuable skill than being able to do fundamental and qualitative analysis of an investment. I am an engineer by training, and it took me way too long to discover this.
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July 23, 2012, 05:36:08 PM
 #26

The sad fact is: being an early adopter does in no way guarantee that you'll become rich.

People will be scammed, lost bitcoin to bad investment, lost bitcoin to forgetting passwords, lost bitcoin due to no backup, lost bitcoin to real life circumstance, etc.

Bitcoin is not easy money.

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July 23, 2012, 05:42:11 PM
 #27

We need a bitcoin motivational poster:

You asked for it:

nimda
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July 23, 2012, 05:47:42 PM
 #28

The difference is, that in Bitcoin, some of these rates CAN be sustained. Bitcoin has such low fees and almost no government interference. Bitcoin loans are often 10% MPR. Mining can get you 1% WPR. I don't know about 7%, but Bitcoin is not fiat, and it shouldn't be treated like it has fiat's limitations.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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July 23, 2012, 06:15:35 PM
 #29

The difference is, that in Bitcoin, some of these rates CAN be sustained. Bitcoin has such low fees and almost no government interference. Bitcoin loans are often 10% MPR. Mining can get you 1% WPR. I don't know about 7%, but Bitcoin is not fiat, and it shouldn't be treated like it has fiat's limitations.

I'm afraid Occam's razor applies here however.

We have a user on the forums who claims to be able to offer people a guaranteed 3400% APR... In a largely anonymous online currency.

Next, we have BS&T offering "Partner Accounts" encouraging people to plough many thousands of coins into this investment, and to encourage others to invest by proxy in order to increase their total amount invested.

Is there even a way to short BS&T any more?
kiba
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July 23, 2012, 06:22:58 PM
 #30

The difference is, that in Bitcoin, some of these rates CAN be sustained. Bitcoin has such low fees and almost no government interference. Bitcoin loans are often 10% MPR. Mining can get you 1% WPR. I don't know about 7%, but Bitcoin is not fiat, and it shouldn't be treated like it has fiat's limitations.

The old rules still apply: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

No matter what, it still won't excuse you from doing your homework and due diligence.

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July 23, 2012, 06:23:48 PM
 #31

HYIPs subtanstantially drove the growth of digital gold currencies.  Unfortunately they also were a major part of that industry's downfall.  


Frank
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July 23, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
 #32

HYIPs subtanstantially drove the growth of digital gold currencies.  Unfortunately they also were a major part of that industry's downfall.  


Frank

Interesting. Any more details about how they helped lead to downfall of those currencies? I was under the impression their failure was due to government action.
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July 23, 2012, 06:28:22 PM
 #33

The difference is, that in Bitcoin, some of these rates CAN be sustained. Bitcoin has such low fees and almost no government interference. Bitcoin loans are often 10% MPR. Mining can get you 1% WPR. I don't know about 7%, but Bitcoin is not fiat, and it shouldn't be treated like it has fiat's limitations.

I'm afraid Occam's razor applies here however.

We have a user on the forums who claims to be able to offer people a guaranteed 3400% APR... In a largely anonymous online currency.

Next, we have BS&T offering "Partner Accounts" encouraging people to plough many thousands of coins into this investment, and to encourage others to invest by proxy in order to increase their total amount invested.

Is there even a way to short BS&T any more?
FFS. FFS! WHY ARE YOU QUOTING MY POST IF YOU DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ IT?
There are a few things that need to happen:
1. Stop talking about Pirate. Nothing new has been said in weeks
2. Stop relying on Occam's razor as your logical backing. If we apply Occam's razor to the graph of cos(X), we get a straight line.
3. Read the damn posts you reply to. I said "I don't know about 7%." Did I back pirate? No. Did I mention ways that 1% WPR can be obtained in Bitcoin without a Ponzi scheme? Yes.
Quote
The old rules still apply: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

No matter what, it still won't excuse you from doing your homework and due diligence.
FFS! 1% WPR sounds too good to be true in FIAT. FIAT! FIAT FIAT FIAT.
But I know people who get that with their mining hardware. And I see Bitcoin loans every day which are done at  10% MPR. 10% MPR is too good to be true in FIAT. FIAT! FIAT FIAT FIAT. But it happens, legitimately, in BITCOIN. BITCOIN.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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July 23, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
 #34

I think the reason why we are seeing such high yields is because Bitcoin enables a truly free market for investments.

We all know, with Bitcoin there are no capital controls, no chargebacks, lower transaction fees, faster transactions, greater anonymity, no risk of seizure or interference.

One could imagine that these properties would allow for certain possibly very profitable businesses and which could not exist in the fiat world.

In these cases Bitcoin would be a more desirable (or perhaps the only) source of funding and thus command a higher 'price' in the form of higher yields.

Especially because the availability of funding with Bitcoin is relatively low. In the fiat world there are trillions sitting around earning near-zero interest but looking for higher yields. In the Bitcoin world this is not so. There are a lot of people that are fine with just holding their Bitcoin and waiting for a price increase.

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nimda
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July 23, 2012, 07:44:32 PM
 #35

I think the reason why we are seeing such high yields is because Bitcoin enables a truly free market for investments.

We all know, with Bitcoin there are no capital controls, no chargebacks, lower transaction fees, faster transactions, greater anonymity, no risk of seizure or interference.

One could image that these properties would allow for certain possibly very profitable businesses and which could not exist in the fiat world.

In these cases Bitcoin would be a more desirable source of funding than fiat and thus command a higher 'price' in the form of higher yields.

Especially because the availability of funding with Bitcoin is relatively low. In the fiat world there are trillions sittings around earning near-zero interest. In the Bitcoin world this is not so, because here a lot of people are fine with just holding their Bitcoin and hoping for a price increase.
This. It's what I said, but with more words and in a clearer format.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
Vladimir
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July 23, 2012, 11:01:06 PM
 #36

Interesting theory, somehow BITCOIN as opposed to FIAT increases typical sustainable ROI by thousands percent. This is a  miracle! Why 1 BTC does not worth 1000$ yet if that is true.

Dream on.

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kiba
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July 23, 2012, 11:06:54 PM
 #37

Especially because the availability of funding with Bitcoin is relatively low. In the fiat world there are trillions sitting around earning near-zero interest but looking for higher yields. In the Bitcoin world this is not so. There are a lot of people that are fine with just holding their Bitcoin and waiting for a price increase.

The flip side is that a lot of people will get burned and a few people get rich and there will be lot of people who don't do their homework.

Fine by me, actually. But don't crying to me if I told you to do your HOMEWORK and you didn't.

nimda
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July 23, 2012, 11:11:45 PM
 #38

Interesting theory, somehow BITCOIN as opposed to FIAT increases typical sustainable ROI by thousands percent. This is a  miracle! Why 1 BTC does not worth 1000$ yet if that is true.

Dream on.

FFS. FFS! AGAIN WITH THE FUCKING PIRATE! NO, I ACTUALLY SAID "I don't know about 7%"
My theory is that BITCOIN as opposed to FIAT has fewer FEES, no GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE, ETC and increases sustainable ROI by maybe 100 % points.

Again,
"I know people who get that with their mining hardware. And I see Bitcoin loans every day which are done at  10% MPR. 10% MPR is too good to be true in FIAT. FIAT! FIAT FIAT FIAT. But it happens, legitimately, in BITCOIN. BITCOIN."

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
Vladimir
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July 23, 2012, 11:15:35 PM
 #39

Your argument would be stronger if you repeat FIAT not 5 times, but 10 times or so and word BITCOINS not 2 times but say 20. Also use not just all caps but all caps and bold and larger red blinking font. There, it seems, not much else that can be done to make your point any less invalid.

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July 23, 2012, 11:16:41 PM
 #40

Again,
"I know people who get that with their mining hardware. And I see Bitcoin loans every day which are done at  10% MPR. 10% MPR is too good to be true in FIAT. FIAT! FIAT FIAT FIAT. But it happens, legitimately, in BITCOIN. BITCOIN."
Which leads to the question -- why is it so much more expensive to borrow Bitcoins than it is to borrow dollars? And I think the answer is that you're competing with more scammers in the Bitcoin world, driving the interest rate way up.

I am an employee of Ripple.
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
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