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Author Topic: Does Bitcoin really need an ATM?  (Read 6249 times)
ghgr
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July 22, 2012, 08:48:55 PM
 #1

I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.

I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).

So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).

So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?

In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.
 
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)
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July 22, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
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Does email need paper?

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July 22, 2012, 09:19:19 PM
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So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

For now on, of course merchants are not very willing to accept bitcoin. Actually Bitcoin needs people that know its potential and will invest by buying some. When enough people will have invested in bitcoin, the price will rise enough to give bitcoin a good purchasing power that will encourage merchant to accept it. Meanwhile, it's a good thing that some people are working on a bitcoin ATM because when the purchasing power will rise at that point, bitcoin will be ready to spread and be use by merchant.


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July 22, 2012, 09:25:30 PM
 #4

Does email need paper?
Yes.

Bitcoin is less reliant on ATMs than classic money, but like email and paper, there are many people who need it. If there is a market, it will be done.
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July 22, 2012, 09:28:59 PM
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I think vending machine supplied bitcoins could be a great "entry point" to people, just to get some bitcoins and play with them, try out how they work etc. There already was this some days ago:

http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/

After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.

Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.  

https://easywallet.org/coupons

This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.

Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.

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July 22, 2012, 09:36:07 PM
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I think vending machine supplied bitcoins could be a great "entry point" to people, just to get some bitcoins and play with them, try out how they work etc. There already was this some days ago:

http://blog.maschinenraum.tk/2012/07/15/bitcoin-vending-machine-exchange-euro-coins-for-bitcoin-wallets/

After this I realized that you can actually use any kind of vending machine as a bitcoin machine, with a little tuning. Maybe condom vending machines are the most easy. They are also very cheap, you can get used ones from ebay.

Inspired by these, I developed a new feature to easywallet.org - coupons. These can be nominated in fiat currency, and they are converted to bitcoins at the time of redeem. This removes exchange rate risk from such machines.  

https://easywallet.org/coupons

This means, that an user with iPhone or android phone can buy the bitcoins from the machine, redeem the coupon using QR code, and start sending/using the bitcoins within minutes from his/her phone.

Currently only the basic functionality is there (you have to print the coupons yourself if you want to use them). Our designer is working for coupon desing.
this is very great stuff! congrat!

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July 22, 2012, 09:51:44 PM
 #7

A lot of people need cash for various reasons. If they can get cash for bitcoin easily they'll hold more coin and be more likely to be willing to work or sell for it.

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July 22, 2012, 10:42:10 PM
 #8

I think the real ATM Bitcoin needs is the one every user already has, made by Hewlett-Packard / Epson / Canon / Brother / Lexmark / etc... the one where the user can Be Their Own Bank and print their own money.  I would sort of agree, an ATM as we know it is pointless.

USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.

If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.

If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.

I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.


Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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July 23, 2012, 01:31:28 AM
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I think the real ATM Bitcoin needs is the one every user already has, made by Hewlett-Packard / Epson / Canon / Brother / Lexmark / etc... the one where the user can Be Their Own Bank and print their own money.  I would sort of agree, an ATM as we know it is pointless.

USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.

If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.

If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.

I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.



That would be so cool!

You would need to connect it to MtGox to determine the value.

The only issue i see with this is how do you deal with the flux?

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July 23, 2012, 06:05:13 AM
Last edit: July 23, 2012, 06:15:51 AM by ghgr
 #10

Thanks for your comments. But I see that you (and I included) are considering Bitcoin not as a medium of exchange, but as the goal itself. "If people need Bitcoin", "Merchants will starting accepting Bitcoin", etc. But the question is:

What are the advantages of Bitcoin compared to traditional banking?

One of the first results of googling "Bitcoin advantages" is this list, from http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu, and my comment in parenthesis.

1) No Third-Party Seizure (How many times in average Joe's life has his money been seized?)

2) No Taxes (that's not a feature, hidden cash can do it. Besides, that's not legal and definitely not desirable to be related to Bitcoin)

3) No Tracking (again, why would average Joe want his money not to be tracked in case of investigation? Of course if he's not out of the law)

4) No Transaction Costs (most consumers would consider a 3% fee is not too much, specially if they have advantages as chragebacks). And if escrow services are used with with Bitcoin, then there would be transaction costs.

5) No Risk of “Charge-backs” (what's the advantage for a consumer? That's only useful for some specific merchants... and scammers).

6) Bitcoins Cannot be Stolen (yes the can! if your keys are stolen. In addition, they are not recoverable, unlike traditional banking).
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July 23, 2012, 07:11:47 AM
 #11

Thanks for your comments. But I see that you (and I included) are considering Bitcoin not as a medium of exchange, but as the goal itself. "It people needs Bitcoin", "Merchants will starting accepting Bitcoin", etc. But the question is:

What are the advantages of Bitcoin compared to traditional banking?

One of the first results of googling "Bitcoin advantages" is this list, from http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu, and my comment in parenthesis.

1) No Third-Party Seizure (How many times in average Joe's life has his money been seized?)

2) No Taxes (that's not a feature, hidden cash can do it. Besides, that's not legal and definitely not desirable to be related to Bitcoin)

3) No Tracking (again, why would average Joe want his money not to be tracked in case of investigation? Of course if he's not out of the law)

4) No Transaction Costs (most consumers would consider a 3% fee is not too much, specially if they have advantages as chragebacks). And if escrow services are used with with Bitcoin, then there would be transaction costs.

5) No Risk of “Charge-backs” (what's the advantage for a consumer? That's only useful for some specific merchants... and scammers).

6) Bitcoins Cannot be Stolen (yes the can! if your keys are stolen. In addition, they are not recoverable, unlike traditional banking).

I'm going to assume you're serious.

1. If Joe plays poker, it's likely. It's happened to many players twice. NetTeller and FTP (complicated by Ponziness, but related to government for sure)

2. Six billion people live too far from me for me to hand them cash. Mail is not so good. Plus I don't likely have the brand of cash they want.

3. Millions if not billions of people break laws because laws are terrible around the world.

4. Obviously 3% doesn't stop much trade, but 3% is worth 3%.

5. Merchants and their consumers are on the same team. If merchants get hit with fraud they either pass it on to the legit consumers or they go out of business.

6. Of course they can be stolen.

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July 23, 2012, 07:44:16 AM
 #12

1) No Third-Party Seizure (How many times in average Joe's life has his money been seized?)
I've had my bank account frozen once (for completely arbitrary reasons), and let me tell you, it is not a fun situation to be in if you need a large amount of cash in a hurry.

2) No Taxes (that's not a feature, hidden cash can do it. Besides, that's not legal and definitely not desirable to be related to Bitcoin)
This is completely false. Bitcoins are taxable, and while it may be easy to hide your bitcoins from the taxman, hiding the things you're spending them on is less easy. That's how tax evaders are usually caught: people spending lots of money that (according to their tax return) they don't have.

3) No Tracking (again, why would average Joe want his money not to be tracked in case of investigation? Of course if he's not out of the law)
But would he want his money to be tracked if there is not an investigation? Many stores already do this every time you use a credit/debit card to try to build a profile on you that they can sell to advertisers and who knows who else. Some people don't like that.

4) No Transaction Costs (most consumers would consider a 3% fee is not too much, specially if they have advantages as chragebacks). And if escrow services are used with with Bitcoin, then there would be transaction costs.
I consider a 3% fee too much, especially if I can get the same or better service with a reduced fee, and I think most consumers would agree.

5) No Risk of “Charge-backs” (what's the advantage for a consumer? That's only useful for some specific merchants... and scammers).
It's also useful for in-person transactions or transactions with trusted merchants where you know you're not getting scammed, and where paying an extra fee for the ability to reverse a transaction that you know you're never going to reverse is a waste of money.

6) Bitcoins Cannot be Stolen (yes the can! if your keys are stolen. In addition, they are not recoverable, unlike traditional banking).
When traditional banking "recovers" your stolen money, where do you think the money comes from? It isn't usually recovered from the thief, instead it comes from all those extra fees you pay, that you wouldn't be paying with Bitcoin.

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July 23, 2012, 08:07:35 AM
 #13

Again, I don't see how it solves the main problem (that Bitcoin is a solution begging for a problem*). I copy your post to comment inline each point:


1) If Joe plays poker, it's likely. It's happened to many players twice. NetTeller and FTP (complicated by Ponziness, but related to government for sure)

Well, so you are implying that Bitcoin is like a poker chip? Do we have to market poker players? And maybe casino players too? It is not something I can write in my ATM project: "Play poker with unregulated money", or "Visit X sites without embarrasing charges in your VISA" (though it might be a good marketing)

2. Six billion people live too far from me for me to hand them cash. Mail is not so good. Plus I don't likely have the brand of cash they want.

I don't think average Joe needs to send cash to people in the antipodes. Maybe once in his life, and he won't mind paying some fees. And people who do these transactions often are (again) not the people who would casually buy BTC in an ATM.

3. Millions if not billions of people break laws because laws are terrible around the world.

I completely agree. So I modify my question adding that "people in developed, democratic countries".

4. Obviously 3% doesn't stop much trade, but 3% is worth 3%.

My point is that when Bitcoin has good (developed) escrow services, transactions will also have a cost.

5. Merchants and their consumers are on the same team. If merchants get hit with fraud they either pass it on to the legit consumers or they go out of business.

Surely merchants prefer to pay a fee and "forget" fraud rather than deploying their own anti-fraud measures. And if a third party deploys this anti-fraud measures, merchant will need the pay them, thus charging more to their consumers.

6. Of course they can be stolen.

I agree.


P.S.: Concernign the answer from Foxpup, Bitcoin has some advantages in particular (rare) events. I cannot write in the ATM machine "Use Bitcoin and your bank account will not be frozen for completely arbitrary reasons". I don't know anyone (well, now _you_, but I cannot say I really know you ;-) ) whose bank account has been frozen and, while it's very inconvenient, detractors would argue that with Bitcoin people would say "All  my wealth has been stolen by a malware/antivirus_bug/moths/whathever and I can do *nothing* to recover it".
And why do you think that you can get the same (or better) service that the existing ones for less than a 3% fee?
You talk about __trust__ merchants... Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin not to trust anybody?


* Really, I'm not trolling at all. I am enthusiastic about the Bitcoin project, and I believe that it would be as revolutionary to the economy as the Internet has been to the information (I have carried out some projects involving Bitcoin). My point is that it won't solve everyday, common people in developed countries actual problems (or at least, _prioritary_ problems).
It sure has its market, but it's narrower that we'd like to think (myself included, since all this thoughts came when I was looking for reasons to convince people that Bitcoin would be useful for them, and thus deploying a network of low cost of Bitcoin ATMs).
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July 23, 2012, 08:16:17 AM
 #14

I think the real ATM Bitcoin needs is the one every user already has, made by Hewlett-Packard / Epson / Canon / Brother / Lexmark / etc... the one where the user can Be Their Own Bank and print their own money.  I would sort of agree, an ATM as we know it is pointless.

USE CASES: If a user has X and needs Y, then he should Z

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS (e.g. on a smartphone) and he needs PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins, and he is not somewhere where he can print some himself, he can get by with an app that shows a QR code on the screen.

If a user has DIGITAL BITCOINS and he needs FIAT CASH, he can get by with a regular banking ATM card funded by Bitcoins.

If a user has PAPER SCANNABLE bitcoins and he needs DIGITAL BITCOINS, he can scan or hand-type the private key somewhere.

If a user has FIAT CASH and needs to buy BITCOINS, what he needs is a vending machine.

I need to buy one of these and relabel it Casascius Coins.



Who is going to protect it ? 24/7 ?
Who is going to fill it up ?
WHo is going to pay for all that ?

Most vending machines get attacked and vanadalised regularly ,and they only have
candy and drinks in them 

if there is going to be one that contains virtual and fiat money its going to be a target for theives ,this goes double if/when bitcoins are more valuable in the future
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July 23, 2012, 08:47:07 AM
 #15

I don't know anyone (well, now _you_, but I cannot say I really know you ;-) ) whose bank account has been frozen...
Really? I guarantee that if you ask everyone you know if they've ever had some kind of serious problem with a bank or payment processor, you will hear some sad stories. If not, you obviously don't know very many people.

...and, while it's very inconvenient, detractors would argue that with Bitcoin people would say "All  my wealth has been stolen by a malware/antivirus_bug/moths/whathever and I can do *nothing* to recover it".
Not everybody has to store their bitcoins on their computer. Secure hardware wallets are under development to address precisely this concern. Or people can trust a third party service such as an e-wallet to handle their bitcoins, preferably with someone to sue if things go wrong.

And why do you think that you can get the same (or better) service that the existing ones for less than a 3% fee?
Because I can, if the service is simply "I give you the money and you give me the goods". Many stores will actually offer a discount on big-ticket items if you pay in cash, simply because it avoids them having to pass the payment processing costs onto you, the consumer.

You talk about __trust__ merchants... Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin not to trust anybody?
No, the point is that you don't have to trust anyone other than the person you're doing business with. You don't have to trust the bank not to freeze your account, you don't have to trust the payment processor not to reverse the transaction, you only have to trust that the person you're giving your money to will hold up their end of the bargain, exactly as if you had used cash. And really, isn't that the way it should be?

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July 23, 2012, 09:11:17 AM
 #16


3. Millions if not billions of people break laws because laws are terrible around the world.

I completely agree. So I modify my question adding that "people in developed, democratic countries".


I'm in a so called 'developed democratic country' and often find myself needing to violate laws. Beyond conscious violation I couldn't tell you how many laws and regulations there are (federal, state, or the county/city I happen to be in) let alone what they are and what the penalties are for violating them or which ones are actually enforced and which are forgotten (or which of the forgotten will be remembered again when convenient). On top of that I can't control or predict when the laws and enforcement will change.

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July 23, 2012, 09:13:27 AM
 #17

You talk about __trust__ merchants... Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin not to trust anybody?


No. Bitcoin solves one (very general) trust related problem. You don't have to trust or even know who is paying you. That's all.

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July 23, 2012, 09:17:57 AM
 #18


2. Six billion people live too far from me for me to hand them cash. Mail is not so good. Plus I don't likely have the brand of cash they want.

I don't think average Joe needs to send cash to people in the antipodes. Maybe once in his life, and he won't mind paying some fees. And people who do these transactions often are (again) not the people who would casually buy BTC in an ATM.


Average Joe doesn't do it because it's been stupidly hard until Bitcoin. I recently paid a guy in AUS for a consult. It was only incidental that I even knew where he was.

This is like saying "Airplanes. pffft, how many people actually need to cross the ocean?". Uh, a lot more once there is a reasonable way to do it.

Bitcoin opens so so many possibilities.

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July 23, 2012, 09:30:43 AM
 #19

4. Obviously 3% doesn't stop much trade, but 3% is worth 3%.

My point is that when Bitcoin has good (developed) escrow services, transactions will also have a cost.

Paying 3% still leaves the merchant with the risk of chargeback. No one else is even selling riskless payment to merchants online.

It's very likely that when both ways are widely available different situations will use different methods. Right now everything is being crammed into one setup - customer can yank back money and merchant has to collect info and still take risk.

Doesn't it seem a little bit odd that the best on offer for online payments is to hand over the exact info that someone would need to charge your card? It's a really bad system, but paying online is so valuable that we do it even though it costs billions paid to thieves.

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July 23, 2012, 09:33:46 AM
 #20

Thanks for your replies. I find your comments very insightful, but I fear I have accidentally changed the original subject (the usefulness of building an ATM Bitcoin dispenser).

So, I agree with you that there are inconvenients (more or less frequent, depending on the person, I accept that) with traditional banking that Bitcoin aims to address (and I really hope it will). But I am still not sure of the answer to the following question:

- Will people use a Bitcoin ATM, other than tech-savvy people? (if placed properly?)

- What will be the reasons that will lead a 'common' person, not particularly tech-savvy (the so called "average Joe") to change some EUR into BTC, _today_? Maybe publish a list of sites accepting Bitcoin in the ATM? And what would be the different than paying with euros in another site?

- What would be the slogan for those people, and not empthy retoric as "Freedom for the people", or "Forget the banks" etc. Something like "Your money more secure", "Easier to use money", "More powerful money", "More stable money", but true (at this time).

- I think that the deployment of ATMs should be complemented by some physical merchants (affiliates) accepting it in the neighbourhood. In this way people will see the sign "Accepting Bitcoins", and when find the ATM for the first time, they will wonder what's all this about. But, how to convince merchants to use Bitcoin, if they need to pay taxes in euros? Their reaction would be the same as if I proposed to accept Swiss francs (and I think they would probably accept Swiss francs rather than Bitcoins).
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July 23, 2012, 09:45:02 AM
 #21

Thanks for your replies. I find your comments very insightful, but I fear I have accidentally changed the original subject (the usefulness of building an ATM Bitcoin dispenser).

So, I agree with you that there are inconvenients (more or less frequent, depending on the person, I accept that) with traditional banking that Bitcoin aims to address (and I really hope it will). But I am still not sure of the answer to the following question:

- Will people use a Bitcoin ATM, other than tech-savvy people? (if placed properly?)

- What will be the reasons that will lead a 'common' person, not particularly tech-savvy (the so called "average Joe") to change some EUR into BTC, _today_? Maybe publish a list of sites accepting Bitcoin in the ATM? And what would be the different than paying with euros in another site?

- What would be the slogan for those people, and not empthy retoric as "Freedom for the people", or "Forget the banks" etc. Something like "Your money more secure", "Easier to use money", "More powerful money", "More stable money", but true (at this time).

- I think that the deployment of ATMs should be complemented by some physical merchants (affiliates) accepting it in the neighbourhood. In this way people will see the sign "Accepting Bitcoins", and when find the ATM for the first time, they will wonder what's all this about. But, how to convince merchants to use Bitcoin, if they need to pay taxes in euros? Their reaction would be the same as if I proposed to accept Swiss francs (and I think they would probably accept Swiss francs rather than Bitcoins).

I don't have any trouble getting dollars for my coins, but I would prefer local cash via atm if it gave me close to the market rate.

Like nearly every bitcoin innovation ATMs will proliferate when there is enough demand to make it profitable for someone and then it will increase the usefulness and thus the demand for bitcoins which will push some other imagined bitcoin projects into existence.

I don't expect many regular merchants in physical stores to be accepting bitcoin any time soon. The ones who do are in it for what you call empty rhetoric. Which also happens to be why I work for bitcoin, transact with bitcoin and save in bitcoin.

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July 23, 2012, 10:26:05 AM
 #22

Maybe the term ATM is a bit confusing. With ATM I refer to a machine where you can buy Bitcoins.

This is like saying "Airplanes. pffft, how many people actually need to cross the ocean?". Uh, a lot more once there is a reasonable way to do it.

I love this example! Or like saying "Hey, why would an Australian care about the information of a server in Europe?"
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July 23, 2012, 04:16:51 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2012, 04:43:50 PM by casascius
 #23



Who is going to protect it ? 24/7 ?
Who is going to fill it up ?
WHo is going to pay for all that ?

Most vending machines get attacked and vanadalised regularly ,and they only have
candy and drinks in them  

if there is going to be one that contains virtual and fiat money its going to be a target for theives ,this goes double if/when bitcoins are more valuable in the future

The machine above is a close cousin of this machine, which regularly does contain fiat money 24/7 and has been built with a commensurate level of security.  You might find it at your local carwash which is unattended 24/7.



Besides, it'd be more of a novelty.  Something to display at a tradeshow.  I don't really own any public-facing property where bolting it into a fixed location would make any sort of sense.

Also, such a thing probably wouldn't actually sell Casascius Coins.  Rather, it would make far more sense to sell redemption "tokens" that they must redeem for BTC online, where they would receive the exchange rate at the time of redemption, rather than at the time of purchase.  This way, the machine doesn't need connectivity to the Internet, nor would it need any major magic to deal with oddities in the denomination (e.g. not being able to sell less than 1 BTC, a problem when BTC>$20, or requiring exact change)

Essentially they would be buying a "Casascius Mickey Mouse Dollar" which could be used to buy bitcoins at a later time.  The secret key could be much shorter (since it's merely a website redemption code not a full private key) and no holograms would be needed (dropping the price greatly, and also dropping the production difficulty, since I could bulk-laser-etch codes on coins in mass quantities and produce thousands per hour, singlehandedly).

All of these caveats would be admittedly less cool than vending real Casascius Coins out of a machine, but it would eliminate most of the costly complication, keep the markup as razor thin as possible, and importantly, would represent a setup where anyone could repeat it simply by ordering a machine, stocking it full of easily-acquired tokens, and then running some open source redemption software on their web server to enable redemptions.

All that said, each coin could still have a QR private key in addition to the redemption code, which would be funded upon redemption (as the way of delivering BTC to the customer), so they still end up with a real physical "bitcoin" in the end.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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July 23, 2012, 10:44:33 PM
 #24

I like this thread. OP makes some valid points, the kind of criticism often lacking in this forum. I can speak for myself - right now I do use btc regularly, for international money transfers, because it works better than other options. I don't need an ATM to do that. I also use BTC as store of value, even though I realize it's risky at this early stage. Again, no need for ATM.

Even if some day in some places BTC becomes widely adopted, most likely it will be adopted as an additional, not exclusive payment option. Again, no need for ATM/exchange machines.

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June 11, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
 #25

*bump*

This is a question for anyone who has actually used a bitcoin atm for btc TO cash conversion.   I see some listed on Coinradar but am curious as to how long it actually takes.   Many notes online say that some kind of ID verification before cash withdrawals can be made?    Would appreciate a first hand field report about how this actually works and how long it takes.   

While on that topic, does anyone know of any real world casinos (anywhere in the world, but preferably not in the US) that accept btc?   As in, the casino allows deposits to one's casino account IN bitcoin (allowing for as many confirmations as they require of course) and then allowing conversion to chips and or cash?   

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June 11, 2017, 01:34:08 AM
 #26

Does email need paper?

Wow, I was thinking how to best convey this and you did it so succinctly. Well done!

I agree physical manifestations of currency is old school, we barely need cash anymore what's the point of an atm

What would happen in future if people waanted to rob you, would they take ur bitcoin? You can say you don't remember ur private key

Street robbing might disappear but criminals would get more sophisticated and steal hardware wallets
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June 11, 2017, 01:47:11 AM
 #27

But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary.
It is not like that, paying salary by Bitcoin í just a way for the payers send money to employees, because they accept Bitcoin á their payment method so that they take Bitcoin, not because their bosses give Bitcoin so that they HAVE TO take Bitcoin ass their salaries
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June 11, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
 #28

I don't personally think that bitcoin ATMs are something needed. Maybe in the future when bitcoin is wider spread than it is today.

Need some spare btc for a new PC that can at least run Adobe Dreamweaver.

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June 11, 2017, 06:47:38 AM
 #29

I agree with the idea that bitcoin has its own ATM. It would surely be helpful to all of us. It will also be good if bitcoin will have its own card that we can use to withdraw bitcoin. In our country, there is a single bitcoin ATM machine that exist but it can only be used for buying and selling. I used Paypal card to withdraw converted bitcoin into cash and sometimes I encounter problem in withdrawing. Having an own ATM machine that enables us to withdraw bitcoin directly into converted cash with its own card and without waiting for days of processing will be very helpful.

I just wish that bitcoin will be used by other countries in the future.

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June 11, 2017, 07:53:45 AM
 #30

As well as my country there are also cities that use bitcoin atm service because the city invites many foreign tourists to enjoy its natural beauty so with the Atm bitcoin in order to facilitate the foreign tourists to make various transactions either to rent lodging or to eat restaurant,  So with the bitcoin Atm service it's a lot easier for people who use bitcoin as a means of transaction anywhere.
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June 11, 2017, 08:27:12 AM
 #31

This is an old post where bitcoin was not used by many people and its price was not high. Those days nobody could predict the road of btc and most of the bitcoiners where enthusiasts. Currently crypto ATM is a good way somebody who does not want to involve with exchange or afraid the face to face trading buy or sell his coins. The only bad thing, imo, is the high conversion rate.
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June 11, 2017, 09:07:35 AM
 #32

I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.

I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).

So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).

So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?

In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.
 
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)

I think that any currency needs ATM, but for bitcoin, it's really not feasible, the bitcoin's transaction speed is still very slow in order to carry out transactions in life.
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June 11, 2017, 09:12:24 AM
 #33

Bitcoins i think doesnt need any ATM machines and banks.Bitcoins needs a decent exchange that is not regulated by the government,an exchange of currency which is tax free from the government.Bitcoins atm is just a bonus from bitcoin adoption and development

 
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June 11, 2017, 09:17:50 AM
 #34

I think that is not really necessary, the only thing necessary and indispensable with bitcoin is the internet. Bitcoin is a digital product, and it only works when the world exists on the internet. ATM bitcoin is just a bitcoin utility, but it is not feasible because bitcoin transactions take too much time to validate.
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June 11, 2017, 09:21:00 AM
 #35

I don't think that bitcoin ATMs are really convenient for advances users. The rates aren't all that great and the verification procedure in most are tedious. Exchanges are always going to be better IMO.  

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June 11, 2017, 09:24:43 AM
 #36

Bitcoin is the currency why should need an ATM.


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June 11, 2017, 09:42:14 AM
 #37

Bitcoin does require an ATM in order to get the cash to get bitcoin easily.
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June 11, 2017, 09:47:29 AM
 #38

For me yes. Bitcoin ATM will make people interest about bitcoin because they never know about it before and also bitcoin ATM is really important when bitcoin become popular someday. So they can easily cash it out or even buy bitcoin from that bitcoin ATM. There are many benefit though for bitcoin if many place have bitcoin ATM.


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June 11, 2017, 09:52:06 AM
 #39

Bitcoin does require an ATM in order to get the cash to get bitcoin easily.


For cashless transactions we do not need to Bitcoin ATM but for emergency reason to use the bitcoin until it become legal money. We need ATM to make the transaction to take out the cash.
After 5 years we do not need to atm at all because that time we will bitcoin legal in use for all the countries.
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June 11, 2017, 10:08:15 AM
 #40

For me yes. Bitcoin ATM will make people interest about bitcoin because they never know about it before and also bitcoin ATM is really important when bitcoin become popular someday. So they can easily cash it out or even buy bitcoin from that bitcoin ATM. There are many benefit though for bitcoin if many place have bitcoin ATM.

If you want make people interest why not do some advertisement not ATM machine so you just build ATM to advertise bitcoin? Hmm I think it will cost many money than Television ads.

But I agree in Bitcoin ATM Machine so that when I need money you just go there and withdraw some fiat money.
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June 11, 2017, 10:09:28 AM
 #41

I think yes, bitcoin and people need an bitcoin ATM, not only bitcoins but like an exchange with many different crypto coins because people would be in hurry.

Or traveling somewhere and why not spending the bitcoin and save the mess converting the cash into the local currency.

The small fees sometime shouldn't be considered because you are spending online money in a country which converting into local currency the fees are higher.
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June 11, 2017, 03:42:07 PM
 #42

Yes, without ATMs Bitcoins are hard to get them. I hope it will be set in my city as soon as possible.
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June 11, 2017, 03:52:53 PM
 #43

Bitcoin ATMs are essential. Many places its really hard to buy bitcoin. Sure in the States i've heard it's pretty easy, but for those without ID or not wanting to go through the verification process on an exchange. It is also trouble to find a reputable place to buy bitcoin online for some countries. In Canada you can use localbitcoins, with a huge fee, sometimes $100, or use your bank to buy it for you with a 30% fee, or a Canadian exchange like quadrigacx where bitcoin is $100 more if buying with Canadian dollars, plus sending dollars to the exchange you have to spend money with your bank, money order and such. Bitcoin ATMs are just so convenient, I wish there were more of them. Wish there were easier ways to buy bitcoin, like with a debitcard. Again the biggest problem bitcoin faces today is the fees.
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June 11, 2017, 04:02:47 PM
 #44

i think bitcoin now is really need an ATM because we see that bitcoin is growth so fast and this years, with the price is going to increase more and more, the ATM is needed in many places so many people will know about bitcoin and they can join like us to start using bitcoin for daily. the ATM is helping us to deposit and withdraw our funds so we don't need to send it into third party services but we can send it into the machine and we can have our money fast.


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June 11, 2017, 04:07:56 PM
 #45

Its just for me ah, I don't think doing Bitcoin ATM is good because first, what will be the essence of bitcoin as an Internet Currency if you would put it on the real world and make an ATM for it, I mean if you are talking about an a exchanger ATM that would change your bitcoin into real money is good but having a BITCOIN atm is not really a definately a good idea.

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June 11, 2017, 04:14:30 PM
 #46

If one need to choose between Net Banking or ATM, what you gonna choose?
Me surely going for net banking. So as Bitcoin economies are develop more than the scope of ATM and if we can buy/sell Bitcoin at very less fees as compared to ATM then I don't understand why people urge for extra non needed ATM expenditure.  

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June 11, 2017, 04:21:31 PM
 #47

Does email need paper?
Yes.

Bitcoin is less reliant on ATMs than classic money, but like email and paper, there are many people who need it. If there is a market, it will be done.
I don't think that bitcoin need to ATM. I think so, not necessary because it is electronic currency and difficult to manage. If you change your bitcoin into a currency that you use via the internet, so se faster
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June 12, 2017, 01:14:02 AM
 #48

Bitcoin is what people need, paying through Internet, anonymously, isn't it the one that they need?
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June 12, 2017, 01:27:32 AM
 #49

I think, yes, Bitcoin is just a way to send money online, but people need a way to exchange Bitcoin into cash so that they can spend them in real life
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June 12, 2017, 01:38:23 AM
 #50

ATM are good option, but to make ATM transactions fast bitcoin confirmation are needed to be fast.
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June 12, 2017, 03:11:25 AM
 #51

i think bitcoin now is really need an ATM because we see that bitcoin is growth so fast and this years, with the price is going to increase more and more, the ATM is needed in many places so many people will know about bitcoin and they can join like us to start using bitcoin for daily. the ATM is helping us to deposit and withdraw our funds so we don't need to send it into third party services but we can send it into the machine and we can have our money fast.
I dont think so . Even they dont have bitcoin Atm we can withdraw our bitcoin and buy bitcoin using the exchanges site and the wallet that you have. My country have alsp bitcoin ATM and the price of buy and sell is very big difference and for sure if you see the difference you will not use ATM machine because the sell is very kow comapred to the exchanges site.
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June 12, 2017, 05:50:12 AM
 #52

Yes we need it, bitcoin is money and its cool to have an ATM too for faster and urgent transactions. But that ATM will be different from traditional with cool security features. The question is what company can provide it.

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June 12, 2017, 06:04:47 AM
 #53

Users of the bitcoin continuse increasing, and it seems the presence of ATM will greatly help the user bitcoin. I'm very happy with the word if there is bitcoin ATM so no need to go to a bank ATM.
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June 12, 2017, 06:09:37 AM
 #54

Users of the bitcoin continuse increasing, and it seems the presence of ATM will greatly help the user bitcoin. I'm very happy with the word if there is bitcoin ATM so no need to go to a bank ATM.

I think atm for me is just when you converted it to fiat. And in my country coins.ph has a virtual card that after you converted it you can withdraw it whenever you want it. Depends on what you want to use either card or with as an e-give cash. For me i dont really need ATM for now. Because i only hold small accounts that can be manageable via cardless transactions. I would probably need those after i can now hold higher amounts of money so that i can withdraw it with out internet and hassle free withdrawing.
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June 12, 2017, 06:23:27 AM
 #55

No not really bitcoin doesn't need atm, but if we got ATM it can increase the popularity and increase the people curiosity about bitcoin and it will make us easier to cash out bitcoin, but overall we don't really need it, we can just easily convert to local exchanger from internet to our account, it is safer and more efficient and the cost is not as high as ATM fee


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June 12, 2017, 06:31:24 AM
 #56

i think bitcoin now is really need an ATM because we see that bitcoin is growth so fast and this years, with the price is going to increase more and more, the ATM is needed in many places so many people will know about bitcoin and they can join like us to start using bitcoin for daily. the ATM is helping us to deposit and withdraw our funds so we don't need to send it into third party services but we can send it into the machine and we can have our money fast.
I dont think so . Even they dont have bitcoin Atm we can withdraw our bitcoin and buy bitcoin using the exchanges site and the wallet that you have. My country have alsp bitcoin ATM and the price of buy and sell is very big difference and for sure if you see the difference you will not use ATM machine because the sell is very kow comapred to the exchanges site.

I agree, Bitcoin ATM has a very big difference with buy and sell so I rather not use it unless I really need the money right away. Why not lets just wait for the time that all establishment will accept bitcoin for payment and while waiting we hold our bitcoin and gain more profit. Bitcoin ATM are only used by people who wants cash right away.
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June 12, 2017, 06:46:28 AM
 #57

Not an urgent thing if there is bitcoin ATM , but the ATM will make people will know bitcoin, maybe at first people think bitcoin is a bank, but more importantly I think is the knowledge and understanding of bitcoin, so people will be happy to use bitcoin as Means of payment
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June 12, 2017, 08:21:50 AM
 #58

ATM's are handy for ppl who need their BTC fast and safe (I still find localbitcoin a bit risky).
However most of us will prefer an exchange or creditcard seems it even more convenient then to find another ATM if there is none in your city.
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June 12, 2017, 08:28:05 AM
 #59

ATM's are handy for ppl who need their BTC fast and safe (I still find localbitcoin a bit risky).
However most of us will prefer an exchange or creditcard seems it even more convenient then to find another ATM if there is none in your city.
I certainly agree that it's better. I have sought atm machine which is cardless that can be used to cash out your bitcoin through that machine and it's available in my country. The great thing about it is that, there is no charge for cashing out btc here byt there is charge for buying btc which is great for people who are earning btc without buying btc.
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June 12, 2017, 08:51:55 AM
 #60

Very old thread this, bitcoin has evolved a lot, and having ATM's helps and makes it more tangible for the unbelievers, which in turn helps adoption. The more merchants aware of these ATM's, the better for the future. We need bitcoin to achieve satoshis aim of being a currency and the ATM's only help.
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June 12, 2017, 08:59:20 AM
 #61

Yes, I think so because if that bitcoin have a own ATM it was easy to the users to exchange their bitcoin into the cash. However, it's better to study first if how many person use bitcoin in 1 community because if they can't think that big lost were happen into bitcoin community.
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June 12, 2017, 09:16:10 AM
 #62

In some countries there is no way to pay with bitcoin so people nee cash.
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June 12, 2017, 09:47:54 AM
 #63

A lot of people need cash for various reasons. If they can get cash for bitcoin easily they'll hold more coin and be more likely to be willing to work or sell for it.
Yes it is more interesting if we can get cash for bitcoin easily. If this happen i will work hard to earn more bitcoin so that I will have many cash to be used whenever I want.

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June 12, 2017, 09:57:17 AM
 #64

I think no because they have exchanges site to buy and sell your bitcoin and its very easy to use. And you cannot go to place where the bitcoin atm. I think more people wants to by and sell to the routine .

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June 12, 2017, 10:56:49 AM
 #65

I've never used or needed to use a bitcoin ATM so for me personally, no I don't think bitcoin needs ATM's. The issue is for people who live in countries with restrictive or poor internet connection/availability, they will need ATM's.

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June 12, 2017, 11:00:00 AM
 #66

It doesn't need an atm but it is a matter of convenience. The fees are terrible but its no different than buying with a visa card on an exchange using their 10% fees.

When you want something easy and fast its just convenient.
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June 12, 2017, 11:07:24 AM
 #67

I like the idea of Bitcoin ATMS, it is inviting especially for Newbies who want to get their first taste of Bitcoin without having to run around online to buy it. Many older people as well who are not that tech savvy or internet friendly, can benefit greatly from Bitcoin ATM machines that's for sure.


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June 12, 2017, 11:11:25 AM
 #68

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now
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June 12, 2017, 11:14:49 AM
 #69

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now
Bitcoin not have a physical money that we can withdraw at the moment, i think atm is not yet ideal for now. Much better to make a wallet which we can buy and withdraw bitcoin with low fees., But i heard that here in my country has installed atm but i do not try that machine and i do not know where it is installed.
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June 12, 2017, 11:17:25 AM
 #70

A lot of people need cash for various reasons. If they can get cash for bitcoin easily they'll hold more coin and be more likely to be willing to work or sell for it.
I guess yes today we cant use bitcoin as a currency even it is a cryptoccurrency but it is not fully accepted in the community you cant buy things and food using bitcoin today but maybe there are some store who started accepting it but not in all but cash or a physical money is accepted so we really need a bitcoin atm today because we need cash to exchange bitcoin but i guess when bitcoin is accepted everywhere we dont need bitcoin atm anymore.
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June 12, 2017, 11:21:54 AM
 #71

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now

These ATM machines are like an advertisement to bitcoin, we can introduce them to bitcoin and make them use it. It may be not that much but we can just tell them it is a great asset. But with these, we can have an access to bitcoin no matter where we go with these ATMs, though in our country, we still don't have one.

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June 12, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
 #72

IMHO not really, but due to the absence of more outlet accepting bitcoin, it is necessary to have ATM where we can withdraw in fiat and use to transact on traditional store. I am seeing in the future that  there are more bitcoin terminal sprouting anywhere where we can use our mobile phone to pay with bitcoin.

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June 12, 2017, 12:48:44 PM
 #73

I like the idea of Bitcoin ATMS, it is inviting especially for Newbies who want to get their first taste of Bitcoin without having to run around online to buy it. Many older people as well who are not that tech savvy or internet friendly, can benefit greatly from Bitcoin ATM machines that's for sure.
but i am not in favour of bitcoin ATM, for bitcoin ATM you have to visit some selected place and proceed your money there. i think the online wallet system is the best and i think we need to make it more secure and convenient to use it from anywhere and any time.
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June 12, 2017, 01:47:27 PM
 #74

No bitcoin does not really need an ATM, because bitcoin is an electronic money and like ATM bitcoin is electronic. But if there would be opportunities for bitcoin to have a card it is better fro the fast transaction of bitcoin, but it is not so needed but if necessary it can be. Bitcoin is such a money that is similar to ATM money.
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June 12, 2017, 01:51:21 PM
 #75

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now

These ATM machines are like an advertisement to bitcoin, we can introduce them to bitcoin and make them use it. It may be not that much but we can just tell them it is a great asset. But with these, we can have an access to bitcoin no matter where we go with these ATMs, though in our country, we still don't have one.
But still, you won't be able to withdraw directly. That's why I don't really see it happening soon, would work just like an advertisement for the currency
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June 12, 2017, 02:33:07 PM
 #76

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now

These ATM machines are like an advertisement to bitcoin, we can introduce them to bitcoin and make them use it. It may be not that much but we can just tell them it is a great asset. But with these, we can have an access to bitcoin no matter where we go with these ATMs, though in our country, we still don't have one.
But still, you won't be able to withdraw directly. That's why I don't really see it happening soon, would work just like an advertisement for the currency
what do you mean? why atm will be created if you won't withdraw directly? i'm not sure but i think there's already an open thread regarding to this atm machine not sure when and where the machine started but I'm positive that you can withdraw directly using it because what would be the purpose if not?

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June 12, 2017, 02:57:38 PM
 #77

For me yes. Bitcoin ATM will make people interest about bitcoin because they never know about it before and also bitcoin ATM is really important when bitcoin become popular someday. So they can easily cash it out or even buy bitcoin from that bitcoin ATM. There are many benefit though for bitcoin if many place have bitcoin ATM.

If bitcoin become what is supposed to do why use an ATM?
Why even bother using fiat at that point.
I like the idea of Bitcoin ATMS, it is inviting especially for Newbies who want to get their first taste of Bitcoin without having to run around online to buy it. Many older people as well who are not that tech savvy or internet friendly, can benefit greatly from Bitcoin ATM machines that's for sure.


Yeah  they will get a first taste at a 10% fee from some greedy bastards.
Nice way to get into bitcoin , getting ripped right at the start.

In some countries there is no way to pay with bitcoin so people nee cash.

And BTCatms don't solve the problem just add another intermediary to the problem increasing the costs.



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June 12, 2017, 03:05:10 PM
 #78

In my opinion Bitcoin does not need an ATM, we can already cash out Bitcoin anytime so what is the use of ATM. We can transfer Bitcoin to any remittance center or to your bank account. Also if ever there will be a Bitcoin ATM it will be another expense to avail it.
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June 12, 2017, 03:05:46 PM
 #79

Having ATMs for bitcoin sure sounds like a good idea, it would make buying/making transactions more accessible worldwide.
I'm not sure how feasible is that, and if it would be a wise thing to do as of now

Yes, it really is a good idea, however, it still can not perform, it really is not feasible with the current bitcoin situation. For ATM, it is known as a device that performs transactions in several wires, whereas bitcoin trading takes about 15 minutes to complete the transaction.
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June 12, 2017, 03:09:14 PM
 #80

If Bitcoin users just cared about BTC and not about other currencies, there was no need of an ATM. Too bad most Bitcoin users seem to prefer old fiat money...
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June 12, 2017, 03:12:59 PM
 #81

i think if bitcoin is growth too fast and people is thinking for a simple way to buy and sell bitcoin without having into the front of pc or laptop then we need an ATM to cover this and that machine is needed to placed into every where. but this will need attention with the government because if we need to place something into public area, then we need to asked permission with the government. i think the idea will be happen in future with many people is interesting with bitcoin and they needed other simple ways to buy and sell bitcoin with fast ways.


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June 12, 2017, 03:20:44 PM
Last edit: June 12, 2017, 03:33:55 PM by leyton11
 #82

In June-2016, my country owned this machine with name is "BTM" and place it in 2 big cities. It's look like as ATM Bitcoin!
The purpose of this machine want help new user Bitcoin can buy Bitcoin safe and easy, not have risk when use it (use Intermediary Service)
First, you need deposit your money and type number BTC you want buy. Then, you just place your smartphone (or device have QR-code address BTC) to scanner QR in "BTM". Wait scanning complete and confirm to receive your BTC Wink

Video Detail: https://goo.gl/O9B9oR
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June 12, 2017, 03:29:38 PM
 #83

Someday in the future when bitcoin has become something common in society to store, to spend, or to pay something on daily activities, we will need an ATM to make people get easy to use bitcoin. Maybe now it's not really worth because it is unfamiliar for all people, and there is not much demand for it in offline transactions.
Bitcoin need an ATM, not now, but next in the future.

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June 12, 2017, 05:24:22 PM
 #84

Maybe the term ATM is a bit confusing. With ATM I refer to a machine where you can buy Bitcoins.

This is like saying "Airplanes. pffft, how many people actually need to cross the ocean?". Uh, a lot more once there is a reasonable way to do it.

I love this example! Or like saying "Hey, why would an Australian care about the information of a server in Europe?"
ATM for bitcoin? This is a difficult thing to manage. Who will run this system? Who will pay for it? If it is ATM with bitcoin, how are we going to use them?
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June 12, 2017, 07:44:35 PM
 #85

Maybe the term ATM is a bit confusing. With ATM I refer to a machine where you can buy Bitcoins.

This is like saying "Airplanes. pffft, how many people actually need to cross the ocean?". Uh, a lot more once there is a reasonable way to do it.

I love this example! Or like saying "Hey, why would an Australian care about the information of a server in Europe?"
ATM for bitcoin? This is a difficult thing to manage. Who will run this system? Who will pay for it? If it is ATM with bitcoin, how are we going to use them?
yes that is very right to say for this purpose you need to make a whole system. and still people will not giving preference to it, because to me  think it is more convenient to use online wallet system for depositing and withdrawal of bitcoin as compare to any other source. therefore to me i think we do not need for any ATM machine and online wallet system is the best option with us.

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June 12, 2017, 08:06:46 PM
 #86

Someday in the future when bitcoin has become something common in society to store, to spend, or to pay something on daily activities, we will need an ATM to make people get easy to use bitcoin. Maybe now it's not really worth because it is unfamiliar for all people, and there is not much demand for it in offline transactions.
Bitcoin need an ATM, not now, but next in the future.
but i think that the ATM  of bitcoin always remain in my pocket. because i have the facility to use bitcoin from my online wallet anywhere and every time. i do not think that i can ever feel the need to use btcoin ATM. i will always like to use the online wallet system which is really more easy to use and in fact more safe as compare to bitcoin ATM.
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June 13, 2017, 01:49:07 AM
 #87

I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.

I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).

So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).

So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?

In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.
 
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)



Yes it's better to have an ATM machine for bitcoin. The point of view to have an merchant is to easy access if you need to buy stuff using that.
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June 13, 2017, 07:00:39 AM
 #88

bitcoin is not like a traditional currency, it has a more secure system, anonymous and unique facilities, but if you think about the good facilities for the user then ATM would be a good option. the more it easier, the more it will get popular. so the authority may think about it...
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June 13, 2017, 07:17:15 AM
 #89

I have never understood bitcoin ATMs..

In daily life I hardly use a normal ATM anymore as I can pay by card almost everywhere nowadays.

The only thing these ATMs do is create visibility, but I don't see many people actually using them. Besides it is not really comforting to withdraw 100 USD and seeing BTC0.03xxxxxx on a flimsy piece of paper.
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June 13, 2017, 07:22:33 AM
 #90

I have never understood bitcoin ATMs..

In daily life I hardly use a normal ATM anymore as I can pay by card almost everywhere nowadays.

The only thing these ATMs do is create visibility, but I don't see many people actually using them. Besides it is not really comforting to withdraw 100 USD and seeing BTC0.03xxxxxx on a flimsy piece of paper.
It is necessary because now the exchange sites are collecting very high transaction fees for low amount transaction. And we need to wait for some time to deposit money in our bank account. Instead of doing this all process better we can withdraw money in ATM and use that money it is easy and safe am I right.
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June 13, 2017, 07:32:43 AM
 #91

Advances in technology science in the present very rapidly developing. As well as the way of payment, first money can only be taken through the bank only. But now we can make money through atm. As well as bitcoin, in the present development of bitcoin we can take in the special atm bitcoin or atm banks that cooperate with bitcoin. All now all easy and simple. Whether the future will be like ..
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June 13, 2017, 07:35:32 AM
 #92

Having an ATM would help promote bitcoin to the masses for sure. I think it is a good idea and would like to have one in my area.

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June 13, 2017, 07:41:38 AM
 #93

If there would be a program to directly convert btc to cold cash then it would be great.  I wish this kind of service would be available in our country soon. BTW,  our btc wallet have ability to transfer fund to ATM cards or banks but takes few days for processing.
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June 13, 2017, 08:37:08 AM
 #94

Those machines should instead be called kiosks rather than bitcoin ATMs. But since the aim is to raise its  awareness to the general public, they patterned it after the typical ATMs. The idea is to have as many options as possible for a person to buy, sell, or do transactions with cash and bitcoin. And for those who for some reasons can't do their transactions on their computer or mobile phone, a bitcoin kiosk is another option that they can consider.
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June 13, 2017, 08:54:02 AM
 #95

Those machines should instead be called kiosks rather than bitcoin ATMs.

Bitcoin ATMs are actually considered as Digital Vending Machines.

Having an ATM would help promote bitcoin to the masses for sure. I think it is a good idea and would like to have one in my area.

I agree, we need more Bitcoin ATMs. But the average fee charged by an ATM is around 7-8%, which is a lot.
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June 13, 2017, 09:06:32 AM
 #96

Those machines should instead be called kiosks rather than bitcoin ATMs. But since the aim is to raise its  awareness to the general public, they patterned it after the typical ATMs. The idea is to have as many options as possible for a person to buy, sell, or do transactions with cash and bitcoin. And for those who for some reasons can't do their transactions on their computer or mobile phone, a bitcoin kiosk is another option that they can consider.

I think you have been thinking wrong, I suppose people are discussing a real ATM, which they can withdraw bitcoin into cash, do you understand it? It's not a machine for doing business transactions. Although this idea sounds good and can be done, but if we look at the problem, we will find it impossible. The current bitcoin can not do this, its value does not stand still, this will cause a lot of difficulties for the business people who own the ATM bitcoin.
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June 13, 2017, 09:15:31 AM
 #97

There is no harm in installing and operating a few Bitcoin ATMs here and there. I know that a lot of the users still distrust the online exchanges. For such people, the ATMs can be very useful. They can just insert the banknotes and coins, and get Bitcoins in return. No need for any ID verification, and there is no risk of someone hacking in to your online account.
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June 13, 2017, 09:24:02 AM
 #98

There is no harm in installing and operating a few Bitcoin ATMs here and there. I know that a lot of the users still distrust the online exchanges. For such people, the ATMs can be very useful. They can just insert the banknotes and coins, and get Bitcoins in return. No need for any ID verification, and there is no risk of someone hacking in to your online account.

Don't forget that many banks don't really "like" their customers use Bitcoin. The reasons are many - it's the competition, it's somewhat more private than the use of banks (AML?).
Also many people prefer to buy Bitcoin without telling the bank they do that (whether they do that for shady reasons or not).
All in all, BTMs are useful, they show the Bitcoin name in more places around the world and make it more accessible.
Yes, the fees are higher, but for good reason. We need more of them, surely.

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June 13, 2017, 11:56:40 AM
 #99

there are plenty of these now 5 years into the future and I think they aren't a waste, Buying BTC through these is a very easy and non-communicative process and the fees are %5 or so and cheaper than LBC and Paxful merchant fees.
The most viable option is exchanges, but bank deposit and CC transfers take a while, and ATM with cash are instant.
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June 13, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
 #100

There is no harm in installing and operating a few Bitcoin ATMs here and there. I know that a lot of the users still distrust the online exchanges. For such people, the ATMs can be very useful. They can just insert the banknotes and coins, and get Bitcoins in return. No need for any ID verification, and there is no risk of someone hacking in to your online account.

I agree. There are a lot of pro for the customers, and the fee is not a lot. (Considering the pros.)

It's not easy to operate a BTM though. There's a lot of legal complications and risk involved. (Keeping in mind that no KYC is required by most BTMs)
Not to mention the costs and capital needed to run a BTM.
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June 13, 2017, 03:05:42 PM
 #101

I've seen in many posts that you are interested in something like a Bitcoin ATM, and there has even been someone who has built a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in the USA.

I believe that reprogramming an existing vending machine (specially condoms or parking meters for their size), or even taking an old motherboard or android phone, and attach a coin acceptor and a thermal printer is not exactly something revolutionary (technically speaking). But it hasn't been done yet (well, it has, but a big and mostly proof-of-concept project, diametrically different from the low cost, widely deployed EUR/USD/GBP2BTC machine everyone want).

So, my question is why. And thinking about the question I found that Bitcoin is not what people need. It will, when it  succeedes (I'm optimistic about Bitcoin) be an extraordinary medium of storing wealth, something like gold today, with the additional advantages that everybody in this forum knows. But I don't think that people need to change their salary to Bitcoin (price fluctuations aside), exactly, again, as they don't need to buy gold with their salary. It's just not worth it. Bitcoin is not useful for buying bread. You can argue, of course, that if the baker accepted Bitcoin, people could use them to buy bread. But why would the baker accept Bitcoin, if he must pay his taxes in euros? It just adds more headache to his accountant.

Another reason I think that people will not rush into the ATM to buy BTC is the responsibility. Who would want to be considered the only responsible of protecting its own wealth? If you are stolen/threatened/forgetful that's it, game over. With a bank, despite all the inconveniences, hidden fees etc, if your credit card is stolen, you can chargeback. And the Bitcoin community does not support the idea of trusting a Bitcoin bank (which, given the past experience, I understand).

So, when I enthusiastically tell my friends about the wonders about Bitcoin, they ask me, skeptically, "how can I use them?" And in the answer I realize that they don't really need them, as well as they don't need gold coins.
People don't mind paying 2 euros more in an item of 60 euros because of the fees of Paypal, if they know that they can recover their money if something goes bad. Bitcoin has primitive escrow services, but are they below the Paypal fees? If yes, for how long, when the Bitcoin economy expands?

In conclusion, when I was looking for a catch phrase to write in the ATM describing why everybody needs Bitcoin, I realized that Bitcoins are useful for wealthy individuals and from a macroeconomic point of view, but not for the people that would casually buy them in an ATM.


 
I hope with this post to get contrary opinions about this fact, since I want to be convinced that a Bitcoin ATM would be useful, since I find the project of building one really, really cool :-)

yes bitcoin really need an ATM booth
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June 13, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
 #102

I think it is not necessary, because bitcoin can be traded only through the internet network can also Cheesy
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June 13, 2017, 03:45:00 PM
 #103

Currently ATM's have a very big market, the idea of buying coins through peer to peer exchanges are less tempting mainly due to the gigantic amount of fraud linked to it, and the risk of getting a fraudulent payment and suffering from it.
But on ATM's the transactions are easier and better to use overall and don't require ID's and verification like exchanges and much quicker.
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June 13, 2017, 03:49:42 PM
 #104

It's true. Bitcoin will need that kind of integration soon enough we think. There are many customers who will need bitcoin ATM to spend their bitcoin with all the ease. May be a group of old people who are not aware of technology that much but still interested in something like bitcoin. Just imagine bitcoin ATM can bring you real cash at very step foot and no need to do all those waiting long confirmations from network. ,Yes may be it should be there.

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June 13, 2017, 04:24:11 PM
 #105

Bitcoin is in dire need of an ATM machine, if bitcoin uses it is very supportive for us all because it is very easy to get cash from bitcoin.
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June 13, 2017, 04:32:21 PM
 #106

I think it is not necessary, because bitcoin can be traded only through the internet network can also Cheesy

Yes I agree with you it does not need an atm.  Bitcoin is good just by being a bitcoin.  Plus I think it would be more complicated to use because there is no physical money.  Its only function would be to just transfer bitcoins.  But I think it is no real proper usage because everything can be done on the internet.
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June 13, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
 #107

I think a bitcoin ATM is more of a way of advertising bitcoin and spreading it as much as possible. A bitcoin ATM could also be useful for buying bitcoins anonymously with cash. I really wish I had one in my nearby area.

who cares
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June 13, 2017, 06:41:15 PM
 #108

Having an atm in any places of the country will be a  good priviledge to all bitcoin users or community here, imagine if that happen every country will going to have an atm machine, wow! that is so cool and many of the people who don't know about in bitcoin
will become more curious about it and we can easily demonstrate the actual of how bitcoin convert it into a real cash/money.
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June 13, 2017, 06:54:20 PM
 #109

even now atm's in any place and everywhere is better than using any other method to exchange btc, the fees are lower than combined bank transfer and exchange in btc exchange fees. now in us and canada as well as part of europe and asia, atm's are becoming a leading exchange method.
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June 14, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
 #110

There is no harm in installing and operating a few Bitcoin ATMs here and there. I know that a lot of the users still distrust the online exchanges. For such people, the ATMs can be very useful. They can just insert the banknotes and coins, and get Bitcoins in return. No need for any ID verification, and there is no risk of someone hacking in to your online account.

Don't forget that many banks don't really "like" their customers use Bitcoin. The reasons are many - it's the competition, it's somewhat more private than the use of banks (AML?).
Also many people prefer to buy Bitcoin without telling the bank they do that (whether they do that for shady reasons or not).
All in all, BTMs are useful, they show the Bitcoin name in more places around the world and make it more accessible.
Yes, the fees are higher, but for good reason. We need more of them, surely.

This is a major issue. I have seen many threads here, dealing with incidents where the banks closed down bank accounts without any warning, due to the association with Bitcoin trade. In some extreme cases, the funds were frozen, and the freeze was removed after more than a year. I am not sure whether they are doing this due to competition. One reason may be the unclear legal status of Bitcoin.
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June 14, 2017, 06:46:13 AM
 #111

An ATM will help in the promotion as well in gaining popularity of the currency, because right now people who love technology too is not aware of bitcoin. So when an ATM is implemented sure it gains the attention and at least a little of them will start exploring more and learn to be a part of bitcoin. Considering the other side bitcoin ATM's levy big transaction fees than the exchange websites.


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June 14, 2017, 07:23:34 AM
 #112

An ATM will help in the promotion as well in gaining popularity of the currency, because right now people who love technology too is not aware of bitcoin. So when an ATM is implemented sure it gains the attention and at least a little of them will start exploring more and learn to be a part of bitcoin. Considering the other side bitcoin ATM's levy big transaction fees than the exchange websites.
It does not require since we can use regular banks but need to convert our btc prior in time. But having atm can be a big help there will be no hassle on it.

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June 14, 2017, 09:05:34 AM
 #113

Don't forget that many banks don't really "like" their customers use Bitcoin. The reasons are many - it's the competition, it's somewhat more private than the use of banks (AML?).
Also many people prefer to buy Bitcoin without telling the bank they do that (whether they do that for shady reasons or not).
All in all, BTMs are useful, they show the Bitcoin name in more places around the world and make it more accessible.
Yes, the fees are higher, but for good reason. We need more of them, surely.

This is a major issue. I have seen many threads here, dealing with incidents where the banks closed down bank accounts without any warning, due to the association with Bitcoin trade. In some extreme cases, the funds were frozen, and the freeze was removed after more than a year. I am not sure whether they are doing this due to competition. One reason may be the unclear legal status of Bitcoin.

There are a couple of reasons I could think of:
1. lack of legislation
2. fear of competition
3. insufficient knowledge/understanding on this technology and a "I don't care about it" (also because of [2])
4. insufficient means to find out if the funds are legit and pulling out AML reasons (caused by [1], [3] and [2] too)
5. scam attempts between BTC buyers and sellers (localbitcoin and so no) - from buyer using problematic funds, from buyers trying to "charge back", from sellers that did double spends.. (I don't know all this for sure, but I expect that such stories may have happened too).
6. fear (in the banking business) that stolen CC may be used to buy BTC (maybe this also has happened already, leading to [5]).

Yeah, we do need more well implemented BTMs...

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June 14, 2017, 10:05:19 AM
 #114

Actually for me, bitcoin needs to have an ATM. This would be nice if their is an ATM will release all nationwide, this is the way to promote bitcoin to those that cannot understand it. This helps to ease of use bitcoin that may use in any store. This helps of bitcoin to spread awareness and to large its community.

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June 14, 2017, 10:35:41 AM
 #115

Smiley Smiley Smiley✨✨Such a great question! ✨✨ Smiley Smiley ; Smiley
I like what this guy said :
Currently ATM's have a very big market, the idea of buying coins through peer to peer exchanges are less tempting mainly due to the gigantic amount of fraud linked to it, and the risk of getting a fraudulent payment and suffering from it.
But on ATM's the transactions are easier and better to use overall and don't require ID's and verification like exchanges and much quicker.

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 

The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!

Even with enormous and almost predatory fee gouges don't slow the stream of people who use it.  They are consistently busy at that ATM every day.  People feel they can trust the familiar box the buttons the receipts ... but people suspect something sneaky out of other people.

Strange humans. Lol.  We don't NEED ATM machines because our wallets will add any trade to the blockchain, as it happens and way cheaper and remember,  some guy owns the machine.  Not an insured bank. Just a guy or girl  with or her coins to sell or buy. That's a fancy wallet. Wink
  *My lifetime career plan includes a peer to peer solution to this ATM problem, more about that in another month.  **

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June 14, 2017, 05:29:50 PM
 #116

Does email need paper?
Yes.

Bitcoin is less reliant on ATMs than classic money, but like email and paper, there are many people who need it. If there is a market, it will be done.
I agree with you. Every time, I have to go to the local exchange but it is very far from my house. So if there were ATMs on the street, I would easily go there and take the money conveniently Grin

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June 14, 2017, 05:50:07 PM
 #117

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 


I think there is a need for an ATM. This is because they connect Bitcoin to Cash. I agree, trust is something that is an issue for bitcoiners, in a peer-to-peer transaction. But, what about the people who aren't tech-savvy enough to even understand what Bitcoin is?

If they want to buy or sell Bitcoins, they can easily use ATMs to do that in a more conventional way. (Which they are comfortable with.)


The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!


I agree, the fee is a lot, when transacting on ATMs. This is something that ATM operators need to work on. I think the fee shouldn't be more than 1-2%. (Currently it's around 7-8%)

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June 15, 2017, 01:37:11 AM
 #118

✨I agree!✨ Here are my thoughts Smiley.
No, it isn't really a need.  It is however a solution to one problem that Bitcoin users face, and that is, trust. Peer to peer transactions are not different than a transaction handled at an ATM except the ATM is holding the wallet of the peer the ATM user is transacting with.  The reason the ATM is more trusted than "some guy" is purely because it is a machine, attached to the blockchain, and has all the familiar features we are accustomed to like buttons, receipts, and a toll free phone number to call if an error occurs etc. 


I think there is a need for an ATM. This is because they connect Bitcoin to Cash. I agree, trust is something that is an issue for bitcoiners, in a peer-to-peer transaction. But, what about the people who aren't tech-savvy enough to even understand what Bitcoin is?

If they want to buy or sell Bitcoins, they can easily use ATMs to do that in a more conventional way. (Which they are comfortable with.)


The fee that is placed on top of the actual value when purchasing from an ATM is often a painfully out of proportion amount. Also to withdraw cash from the machine will yield a disappointing, below market result.   Yesterday at a popular Bitcoin ATM machine the current VALUE of btc was 2848.00 but the ATM charged 3200 per coin to purchase. OUCH!  Then if you wanted to get cash, you "sell" your coins to the machine and it was paying $2340 per coin.  More ouch!


I agree, the fee is a lot, when transacting on ATMs. This is something that ATM operators need to work on. I think the fee shouldn't be more than 1-2%. (Currently it's around 7-8%)


✨I appreciate the fact that you actually read my reply and your responses are clear & thoughtful✨ Now, I have to tell you that on any given day, I will be seen at the bitcoin atm despite my long-winded answer, above.  I HATE the fee, but I love the convenience.  It is an evolving perspective and soon I hope to offer a mobile solution in Vegas at least, as soon as my kiosks are funded fully !! 

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June 15, 2017, 01:43:59 AM
 #119

ATM bitcoin certainly gives us easiness in making transactions. Including withdrawals to local currency in our country.
It can help when we need real money quickly. I think ATM bitcoin is very important to give us fast mobility.
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June 15, 2017, 02:33:45 AM
 #120

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority
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June 15, 2017, 06:42:21 AM
 #121

it might not have been as critical as it is now in 2012, but in 2016, ATM's are one of the best methods to buy BTC's and would be amazing if accepted to "buy" as well.
Exchanges all require identification "and heavy" documentation, P2P are risky now, with fraud in all methods but direct cash, which is risky in another way.
Personally I see bitcoin ATMs as a successful idea.
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June 15, 2017, 08:05:05 AM
 #122

In my oppinion, yes, instead of paying fees for EVERY SINGLE MICRO TRANSACTIONS, you can pay only one-time fee for a Bitcoin ATM so that you can use that cash to pay for real things in real life
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June 15, 2017, 08:11:25 AM
 #123

In my oppinion, yes, instead of paying fees for EVERY SINGLE MICRO TRANSACTIONS, you can pay only one-time fee for a Bitcoin ATM so that you can use that cash to pay for real things in real life
You're right, never do I do such a stupid actions like paying fees for every transaction in my life, using an ATM is much more convenient for me
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June 15, 2017, 08:18:38 AM
 #124

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority
The local bitcoin company will provide it (all the costs for the machine itself and the maintenance) and as an exchange, they'll take a pretty high fee for a transaction as already occurred to all people that they're complaining about how high the transactions fee were using ATMs.
Though, sometimes people are misunderstanding about the function of bitcoin ATM and Bitcoin vending machine, they can't even see the differences before getting explained.

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June 15, 2017, 08:25:03 AM
 #125

So Far Bitcoin for me is very useful since i can use it payment as option for my online business .Does Bitcoin really need an ATM? Yes ! changing on price of bitcoin from time to time is one of the uniqueness . Atm machine for bitcoin has disadvantage and advantage .
You can easily withdraw your money once  high value . unlike today you have to covert always fee is higher sometimes i don't notice.

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Theb
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June 15, 2017, 08:28:40 AM
 #126

Well seeing this post to be way back 2012, I think the circumstances have change. ATMs are not really needed but they can be an option for people who does not have direct access of buying and selling Bitcoin. The downside of using this ATMs are they have a high exchange rate in which you certainly will not have the value for your money in both sides.

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cryptoheadd
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June 15, 2017, 08:59:53 AM
 #127

✨I appreciate the fact that you actually read my reply and your responses are clear & thoughtful✨ Now, I have to tell you that on any given day, I will be seen at the bitcoin atm despite my long-winded answer, above.  I HATE the fee, but I love the convenience.  It is an evolving perspective and soon I hope to offer a mobile solution in Vegas at least, as soon as my kiosks are funded fully !! 

Exactly. Bitcoin ATMs also provide instant withdrawals, which are quite convenient. Exchanges, on the other hand, usually take a couple of days (if not more) to process withdrawals.

Looking forward to knowing more about your solution.

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority

The cost of buying and maintaining the BTM is not a concern for the consumer. It's the responsibility of the Bitcoin company/ATM operator that installs the ATM. (That is what they charge the fee for).
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June 15, 2017, 09:12:08 AM
 #128

Bitcoin doesn't really need an ATM. The fact that people have been using it for some reasons and they can check or update it in their own way. Good thing is that Bitcoin is getting more popular in some countries yet it's still private. I,myself say that it really helps a lot when it comes to transacting money discretely wherein you don't need to bring atm with but only using your phone is really convenient for your transaction so it doesn't need an ATM.
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June 15, 2017, 09:20:35 AM
 #129

ATM's aren't necessary but are for a small group of people, it is not a fundamental part of bitcoin at all, exchanging through exchanges and through ATM's almost have the same interest and cost..
The ATM might be good to people with less regular traders using bitcoins and exchanging them, since they do not need people to exchange with but automatically.
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June 17, 2017, 02:54:04 PM
 #130

In my oppinion, yes, instead of paying fees for EVERY SINGLE MICRO TRANSACTIONS, you can pay only one-time fee for a Bitcoin ATM so that you can use that cash to pay for real things in real life

Oh wait.
You're idea is to....stop using bitcoin and start using fiat?
Really?
Why are you still here then. Go to lukejrtalk or fiat talk.


✨I appreciate the fact that you actually read my reply and your responses are clear & thoughtful✨ Now, I have to tell you that on any given day, I will be seen at the bitcoin atm despite my long-winded answer, above.  I HATE the fee, but I love the convenience.  It is an evolving perspective and soon I hope to offer a mobile solution in Vegas at least, as soon as my kiosks are funded fully !! 

Exactly. Bitcoin ATMs also provide instant withdrawals, which are quite convenient. Exchanges, on the other hand, usually take a couple of days (if not more) to process withdrawals.

Looking forward to knowing more about your solution.

Change you exchanger.
I've never used one that takes ore than 24 hours for the cash to enter my account.
I'm going to to name it but one of the major ones is paying even faster than that during weekdays if you work with some banks.

And I'm not going to pay a 15% fee to a damn vending machine.

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June 17, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
 #131

bitcoin ATM is one of the best methods to get Bitcoins if you think about it, the fees of %5 which is mostly used in Exchanges and this is not worse than the exchange methods and the like of cost of exchanges.
ATM is open as well, and you don't need to identify yourself with KYC which is very relaxing if you think about it.
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June 17, 2017, 03:05:44 PM
 #132

Change you exchanger.
I've never used one that takes ore than 24 hours for the cash to enter my account.
I'm going to to name it but one of the major ones is paying even faster than that during weekdays if you work with some banks.

And I'm not going to pay a 15% fee to a damn vending machine.

I'm based in India, and there is a delay in payment here these days, due to the increase in demand.
I agree, the fees that Bitcoin ATMs charge are ridiculous.. It needs to drop down to 1-2%.
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June 18, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
 #133

Change you exchanger.
I've never used one that takes ore than 24 hours for the cash to enter my account.
I'm going to to name it but one of the major ones is paying even faster than that during weekdays if you work with some banks.

And I'm not going to pay a 15% fee to a damn vending machine.

I'm based in India, and there is a delay in payment here these days, due to the increase in demand.
I agree, the fees that Bitcoin ATMs charge are ridiculous.. It needs to drop down to 1-2%.

Well, I stick to my opinion , change it.
Cause if there is an increase in btc demand it means the exchange is flooded with fiat so they should be paying easily.
Also I tend to stay away from exchanges that claim delays are because of volume.
It's the first sign you;re dealing with amateurs and your funds are at risk.



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June 18, 2017, 02:53:10 PM
 #134

it is never a bad thing to have more exchange methods, I've been using Bitstamp (Europe based) and everything is working fine with them BUT I would not mind buying from an ATM if one is located close to me because it is instant unlike bank deposits taking a little while, the fees reported in this forum (%5) are not excessive compared to SEPA + Exchange fees.
niisarearning
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June 19, 2017, 09:40:35 AM
 #135

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority
In whole thread i found your point is valid . Who will take care about ATM machine expenses ??. Here is my suggestion there is lots of exchange wallet in each country they can maintain machine if they are having proper plan and then they can charge small amount for transaction.
cryptoheadd
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June 19, 2017, 09:56:05 AM
 #136

Well, I stick to my opinion , change it.
Cause if there is an increase in btc demand it means the exchange is flooded with fiat so they should be paying easily.
Also I tend to stay away from exchanges that claim delays are because of volume.
It's the first sign you;re dealing with amateurs and your funds are at risk.

I agree, the exchange is flooded with fiat, but that is not what the problem is.
The problem is that they aren't able to keep-up with the rising demand.

This is something that they are working on improving.

In whole thread i found your point is valid . Who will take care about ATM machine expenses ??. Here is my suggestion there is lots of exchange wallet in each country they can maintain machine if they are having proper plan and then they can charge small amount for transaction.

Cost of maintaining and purchasing the ATM machine is not a responsibility of the consumers.

In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority

The cost of buying and maintaining the BTM is not a concern for the consumer. It's the responsibility of the Bitcoin company/ATM operator that installs the ATM. (That is what they charge the fee for).
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June 19, 2017, 05:16:49 PM
 #137

it is never a bad thing to have more exchange methods, I've been using Bitstamp (Europe based) and everything is working fine with them BUT I would not mind buying from an ATM if one is located close to me because it is instant unlike bank deposits taking a little while, the fees reported in this forum (%5) are not excessive compared to SEPA + Exchange fees.

First the atms fees do not go below 7%.
Secondary SEPA fees? Are we seriously talking about that?

The actual withdraw from bitswamp costs you exactly 0.90 cents according to thier own fees table.
https://www.bitstamp.net/fee_schedule/

Sorry but only gas you're spending driving 4 or 5 km will cost you more than that.


In my opinion do not need an ATM, the cost to buy a machine and ATM care is very expensive, who will pay it? Even if it exists only in some special places, it is unlikely that bitcoin ATMs exist in every village, so bitcoin ATMs should not be a top priority
In whole thread i found your point is valid . Who will take care about ATM machine expenses ??. Here is my suggestion there is lots of exchange wallet in each country they can maintain machine if they are having proper plan and then they can charge small amount for transaction.

The fee for installing ATMs in countries is not a problem, the duration of bitcoin transactions is too long; it's a problem for an ATM, it needs speed in seconds, but bitcoin can not do that.

There are a lot of costs.
Here in my average wealthy town it will cost you around 200 euros a month to have an atm inside a shopping mall , another 50 for the connections , then you will have to pay an insurance (mandatory) then you will have to pay the service for taking out and trasnporting the cash deposited so in the end it will cost you quite a lot.
That's why the fees are so big.

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June 20, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
 #138

Yes, Bitcoin does need to have ATM machine around the whole world in order to grows into a much bigger users base. It is essential to attract people that doesn't know anything about bitcoin to take a look on how bitcoin actually works, I see it as a marketing strategy to make bitcoin into being more recognize by the world. And it also provides users with an alternative way to purchase bitcoin without the risk of getting scam by scammers.

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raymond541
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June 20, 2017, 05:32:51 PM
 #139

obviously Bitcoin need an ATM.people can transaction flexible if every where have ATM.you can see fiat currency have ATM everywhere and people can used ATM for cash out anytime.if every where have bitcoin ATM use of bitcoin will be more popular.people can easily cash out spend for his daily expenses.
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June 20, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
 #140

Bitcoin does not literally needs an ATM. However, having an ATM for Bitcoin would give convenience for its users. Just like banks across the world, do they need an ATM? No. ATMs are just made for convenience of the users and not to cope with their needs. That alone shall answer your concern, simple and without any complexities.
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June 20, 2017, 06:27:41 PM
 #141

Yes, Bitcoin does need to have ATM machine around the whole world in order to grows into a much bigger users base. It is essential to attract people that doesn't know anything about bitcoin to take a look on how bitcoin actually works, I see it as a marketing strategy to make bitcoin into being more recognize by the world. And it also provides users with an alternative way to purchase bitcoin without the risk of getting scam by scammers.
yes its optional and not necessary. bitcoin is do not need for any ATM machine. because I think it is more easy to use your own online wallet as compare to ATM, because we have access to internet and having smartphone which we can use for getting access to our online wallet. I think online wallets at also giving your more security and no one can get access to your wallet so easily. therefore to me I think online wallet system is good for using bitcoin.
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June 20, 2017, 07:43:12 PM
 #142

Does email need paper?

If you aren't going to print out what has been sent, then no it doesn't need papers!


Well, I really think that the Bitcoin and ATM debate is overstretched. Bitcoin transactions and transfers are conveniently made without one even leaving the comfort of one's home. I don't think the introduction of ATM will make any financial difference apart from the sight of the Bitcoin machines serving as a point of creating awareness and advertisement.

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